thin client / terminal server questions

[darksoul]

I am building a server and was thinking of getting rid of a couple of old computers that are currently just used for surfing the web and a little bit of word processing (google apps mainly). I was thinking that i could get rid of the old loud machines and replace them with thin clients. It seems that i can get them cheap off of ebay (1, 2,ect)

I would like to keep is simple, i am imagining/dreaming of a setup that runs basically like remote desktop, to my server machine with each user having their own account. My main machine will be a dual core (Pentium E2200 or Athlon 64 X2 4000) with 2-4 gig of ram. I don't think i need to use anything like citrix for this simple project. The only windows option i have run across is XP Unlimited.

My main questions:

1) is this realistic?

2) is my "server" powerful enough? Which processor do you recommend/is 2 gig enough?

3) is XP Unlimited the right software choice?

4) will i realistically be able to use the the thin clients from ebay?

5) can i use thin clients like that as a media extender?

6) can i attach a printer to one of the thin clients via USB. How versatile and usefull are those USB ports?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

Logan

[FlishFun Veteran]

I am building a server and was thinking of getting rid of a couple of old computers that are currently just used for surfing the web and a little bit of word processing (google apps mainly). I was thinking that i could get rid of the old loud machines and replace them with thin clients. It seems that i can get them cheap off of ebay (1, 2,ect)

I would like to keep is simple, i am imagining/dreaming of a setup that runs basically like remote desktop, to my server machine with each user having their own account. My main machine will be a dual core (Pentium E2200 or Athlon 64 X2 4000) with 2-4 gig of ram. I don't think i need to use anything like citrix for this simple project. The only windows option i have run across is XP Unlimited.

My main questions:

1) is this realistic?

2) is my "server" powerful enough? Which processor do you recommend/is 2 gig enough?

3) is XP Unlimited the right software choice?

4) will i realistically be able to use the the thin clients from ebay?

5) can i use thin clients like that as a media extender?

6) can i attach a printer to one of the thin clients via USB. How versatile and usefull are those USB ports?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

Logan

Logan,

Welp, we use Neoware Capios (exclusively) for what we do at the office and have about 100 or so of 'em in play. If you're going to be using just a couple, then first of all, they should be fine.

Answers (from a Capio standpoint) for your main questions:

1) Absolutely, you won't need anything but a Windows 2003 install (no Citrix needed).

2) For just a few Capios (and just basic use), your server should be just fine.

3) Honestly, how many people will be logging into the server? If less than 3, and you trust your users, you can have them just RDP into the server using the built-in CALs. Otherwise, just buy the licenses you need (for example, from here). They're cheaper and they're true CALs.

4) You should... the Neoware Capio brand was just bought by HP and they stand up well to much abuse (we have some models that are 3 years old, that not only were used in a dusty warehouse, but have survived multiple moves across states through UPS).

5) As far as I know, no you can't.

6) Yes, you can attach a printer (we do) and they are quite versatile (we've used them for keyboards, mice, etc).

They come with XP Embedded, so for the most part, it's just like an XP box.

[darksoul]

Logan,

Welp, we use Neoware Capios (exclusively) for what we do at the office and have about 100 or so of 'em in play. If you're going to be using just a couple, then first of all, they should be fine.

Answers (from a Capio standpoint) for your main questions:

1) Absolutely, you won't need anything but a Windows 2003 install (no Citrix needed).

2) For just a few Capios (and just basic use), your server should be just fine.

3) Honestly, how many people will be logging into the server? If less than 3, and you trust your users, you can have them just RDP into the server using the built-in CALs. Otherwise, just buy the licenses you need (for example, from here). They're cheaper and they're true CALs.

4) You should... the Neoware Capio brand was just bought by HP and they stand up well to much abuse (we have some models that are 3 years old, that not only were used in a dusty warehouse, but have survived multiple moves across states through UPS).

5) As far as I know, no you can't.

6) Yes, you can attach a printer (we do) and they are quite versatile (we've used them for keyboards, mice, etc).

They come with XP Embedded, so for the most part, it's just like an XP box.

Thanks so much for the response and tolerance of my ignorance! I am glad i can make this work. A couple of follow up questions if you don't mind.

From what i gather (googled it some) Neoware Capio is a hardware vendor. Do i need special software (aka xp unlimited or citrix) or is everything i need built into Windows 2003?

Is there any special steps that i need to setup windows 2003?

neowin members rock!

~Logan

[FlishFun Veteran]

Thanks so much for the response and tolerance of my ignorance! I am glad i can make this work. A couple of follow up questions if you don't mind.

From what i gather (googled it some) Neoware Capio is a hardware vendor. Do i need special software (aka xp unlimited or citrix) or is everything i need built into Windows 2003?

Is there any special steps that i need to setup windows 2003?

neowin members rock!

~Logan

Actually Neoware has been purchased by HP, so now the support will finally be a bit better (it had been lacking), so it's even better now. But it's basically just a motherboard with FlashROM onboard. The funny thing is, if you crack open their little silver tower, you'll see (at least on ours) IDE hookups, and can usually even get to the BIOS and play around a bit. It's nothing major, and nothing you shouldn't be able to handle if you know your way around a PC.

For what you're doing, a Standard Windows 2003 install will hook you up. Once you get it, if you decide to go the Terminal Server route, just buy a couple licenses for about $45 or so each. We don't use any special software... on the Capio we setup an RDP connection to the Term Server, which has the licenses installed.

The only setup you'd need to do on the Server is go to Add/Remove Components and add both Terminal Server and Terminal Server Licensing. If your Capio has XP Embedded, you have most everything XP can do. If you get a Linux Capio, it'll still work, just know that (for us, anyways) it's easier to setup printers on the Server and then map everything back to the Capio (just so we don't have to deal with drivers).

Either way, you should be fine. (Y) You can always PM me and ask if you have issues (if you go this route)... as I said, we run about 125 of 'em right now (36 Stores, each with a min of 3 Capios, plus 3 Warehouses... all connecting back to two Terminal Servers) and know them pretty much inside and out. :)

[TurboTuna]

Why not just use Windows Terminal Services?

[FlishFun Veteran]

Why not just use Windows Terminal Services?

That's what we are talking about using... see: Windows Terminal Services :)

Part of his issue is the noise made from the Old PCs he has... these Thin Clients are completely silent. :yes:

[darksoul]

Right. I am looking for a low noise, low power solution to replace two old computers that are starting to have random annoying problems. Just to confirm, I can use the 3 CALs included with Windows 2003 to connect to Terminal Server and would only need to buy additional licenses if i wanted to connect more then 3. I guess my confusion is the difference between RDP (Remote Desktop Protocol) and WTS (Windows Terminal Services)? I don't expect to have more then 3 thin clients.

I using This is a personal in house setup, so i am not worried about security.

(FlishFun, if at any point you would prefer i PM you i certainly can, I was thinking this might end up helping other people in the future though)

[MMaster23]

ps .. one note .. when using the RDP trick which FlishFun stated:

"3) Honestly, how many people will be logging into the server? If less than 3, and you trust your users, you can have them just RDP into the server using the built-in CALs. Otherwise, just buy the licenses you need (for example, from here). They're cheaper and they're true CALs."

you're breaking the RPD/Windows Server EULA. You aren't allowed to use RDP for anything but administration of the server. Using it for end-user desktop sessions isn't allowed as Microsoft demands Terminal Services for that.

Also you are limited to 2 concurrent RDP sessions at a time (including the console session).

[Moustacha]

If all they're doing is surfing the internet and word processing, have a look into LTSP

[FlishFun Veteran]

Right. I am looking for a low noise, low power solution to replace two old computers that are starting to have random annoying problems. Just to confirm, I can use the 3 CALs included with Windows 2003 to connect to Terminal Server and would only need to buy additional licenses if i wanted to connect more then 3. I guess my confusion is the difference between RDP (Remote Desktop Protocol) and WTS (Windows Terminal Services)? I don't expect to have more then 3 thin clients.

I using This is a personal in house setup, so i am not worried about security.

(FlishFun, if at any point you would prefer i PM you i certainly can, I was thinking this might end up helping other people in the future though)

Actually as stated below (and in one of my other posts), you'll have to buy the CALs for Terminal Server... when I mentioned the RDP thing, I was referring to what he says below. Since you'll be using 3 systems, it's more than that would be able to handle now (plus it technically breaks the EULA). I misstated the number (whoops... my brain wasn't all there!).

The main difference between RDP and WTS is how Microsoft licenses it, as they're tied close together. If you have the money laying around, I'd just pay the $40 or so a license and go it 100% legit. :yes: So total cost would be:

Windows Server 2003 (no cost if you own it already)

Three Terminal Server CALs (about $40 each)

Three Capios (price depends on where ya get 'em... about $120 each refurb)

ps .. one note .. when using the RDP trick which FlishFun stated:

"3) Honestly, how many people will be logging into the server? If less than 3, and you trust your users, you can have them just RDP into the server using the built-in CALs. Otherwise, just buy the licenses you need (for example, from here). They're cheaper and they're true CALs."

you're breaking the RPD/Windows Server EULA. You aren't allowed to use RDP for anything but administration of the server. Using it for end-user desktop sessions isn't allowed as Microsoft demands Terminal Services for that.

Also you are limited to 2 concurrent RDP sessions at a time (including the console session).

Technically true. I was just trying to help him for his home use... honestly the Terminal Services idea is what he should use, but I was just trying to help him get started.

[MMaster23]

Technically true. I was just trying to help him for his home use... honestly the Terminal Services idea is what he should use, but I was just trying to help him get started.

I know you were .. thanks for that. We all start somewhere...

[darksoul]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I think i am on the right track now. I just ordered the server and will be ordering a thin client in the next few days. I will let everyone know how it goes.

[Rudy]

if you have time, maybe try to make a review of your experience and post it. I know I would love to read about it