Mac OS X Snow Leopard Discussion

[giga Veteran]

What did they do with the font smoothing? The text is **** now (Dell LCD) black text looks dark gray and small font is barely readable (seems less strong/bold).

Check your color profile in Display settings. My Dell display looked pretty bad (text, color) until I adjusted the color profile.

[Timan Veteran]

Yea they really messed those up aswell. I used to use the SRGB one in Leopard, but now in Snow leopard the SRGB profile is garbage (extremely bright). So now I'm on the Generic RGB one :(

[giga Veteran]

You should never use the standard srg profile as your display profile..

[PyX]

Oh, well then it seems Office 2008 was developed for PowerPC, then. Don't see what the big deal is, frankly. Rosetta installs quickly and runs invisibly.

Rosetta is an emulator, this is the problem. It was the best solution, but it's slow / sluggish.

So... Office 2008 installer runs under Rosetta, while the apps themselves run natively? Like .Neo said : What. The. ****?

I couldn't agree more with you, dude.

By the way, why did you notice about the french instructions? Is it your native language? It is for me and I haven't even taken a look last time XD All I remember is the documentation for QuickTime... and it was for QuickTime 7

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

its not worth the upgrade for a very few features, smaller programs/footprint i could care less about, i cant take advantage of the GPU Process offload as i dont have the newer GF cards, other then stuff i can download a GUI kit for, what else is there ?

Because...?

[+John. Subscriber¹]

its not worth the upgrade for a very few features, smaller programs/footprint i could care less about, i cant take advantage of the GPU Process offload as i dont have the newer GF cards, other then stuff i can download a GUI kit for, what else is there ?

Obviously it's not a huge upgrade, this is why it's only $29 for Leopard users. IMO, it's worth it to have up-to-date system software.

[what]

I'm only getting it for Quicktime X :p

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

true, but i just went over Apple's Snow Lepard site and read all the stuff that they " enhanced " literally they got really stupid crap listed as a Major feature like shorter install, WTF, you only install it once, why is it a big thing, Eject Disk is in multiple places at once, they list iChat which could be a program update instead of an OS update, Safari 4 which 10.5 has already, Quicktime which is part of iTunes and same thing as iChat comment above.

there is very little other then the 64Bit that makes this worthwhile of somthign other then a 10.5.X brand

i love my MBP, and OSX, but im feeling more the Service Pack slam against 10.6 is justified in my situation as i cant use OpenCL, Grand Central, or the 64bit kernel, even though i have a 64bit Processor.

Obviously it's not a huge upgrade, this is why it's only $29 for Leopard users. IMO, it's worth it to have up-to-date system software.

[giga Veteran]

true, but i just went over Apple's Snow Lepard site and read all the stuff that they " enhanced " literally they got really stupid crap listed as a Major feature like shorter install, WTF, you only install it once, why is it a big thing, Eject Disk is in multiple places at once, they list iChat which could be a program update instead of an OS update, Safari 4 which 10.5 has already, Quicktime which is part of iTunes and same thing as iChat comment above.

there is very little other then the 64Bit that makes this worthwhile of somthign other then a 10.5.X brand

i love my MBP, and OSX, but im feeling more the Service Pack slam against 10.6 is justified in my situation as i cant use OpenCL, Grand Central, or the 64bit kernel, even though i have a 64bit Processor.

You're terribly misinformed. Who says you can't use Grand Central or a 64-bit kernel? The list is very incomplete as it is so I wouldn't take it much more than a grain. Regardless, the kernel itself doesn't really amount to much of a hoopla for people to get excited over compared to all the 64-bit applications now included, which your MBP will suppport. The improved responsiveness over the entire system is enough for me as it is--Safari, Finder, Mail, everything.

[Timan Veteran]

Biggest feature... safari can play more than 2 animated gifs on a single webpage without beach balling :o

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

i was using the List that was posted previously as far as the Kernel. i recognize that its not done by apple, but unless apple wants to give something that will prove or disprove that list, ill go by it as i have nothing from apple that says otherwise

as far as the 64 bit applications, it doesn't mean squat if they are being funneled through a 32 bit OS/Kernel/Extensions

and Grand Central, 10.5 already recognizes and uses both core's independently, so i dont know why its there

my laptop is responsive already

You're terribly misinformed. Who says you can't use Grand Central or a 64-bit kernel? The list is very incomplete as it is so I wouldn't take it much more than a grain. Regardless, the kernel itself doesn't really amount to much of a hoopla for people to get excited over compared to all the 64-bit applications now included, which your MBP will suppport. The improved responsiveness over the entire system is enough for me as it is--Safari, Finder, Mail, everything.

that 9 mil mark thread that neobond made couple days ago was balling mine like crazy, lol so i know where your coming from

Biggest feature... safari can play more than 2 animated gifs on a single webpage without beach balling :o

Wondering what happened to Cara, she hasnt been on in a year

[giga Veteran]

as far as the 64 bit applications, it doesn't mean squat if they are being funneled through a 32 bit OS/Kernel/Extensions

This is incorrect. 64-bit applications have exhibited faster performance, launch times, and calculations with a 32-bit kernel fine. This is all stated on their site and graphs are even provided.

64-bit vs 32-bit Lightroom comparison: http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2008/10...ormance-part-2/

http://thingelstad.com/lightroom-2-in-64-bit-glory/

and Grand Central, 10.5 already recognizes and uses both core's independently, so i dont know why its there

http://images.apple.com/macosx/technology/...ef_20090608.pdf

my laptop is responsive already

I will never understand these comments. Surely there's room for improvement in starting/shutting the system, loading system applications, browsing through a pile of PDFs/photographs in Finder, etc? Or does everything happen instantly for you?

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

but from what i understand, the increase in speed would be from other areas, not because the program is 64bit, the 64bit difference is the increase in addressable memory space/threads vs 32, and running the increase on a lower bit os, the calls ( or whatever ) would have to be simplified to run on the lower threads/address's

This is incorrect. 64-bit applications have exhibited faster performance, launch times, and calculations with a 32-bit kernel fine. This is all states on their site and graphs are even provided.

the only difference im gathering from that, is its OS instead of App, developer thing, if App's are already programed to do it, what is the difference other then small speed increase ( see below edit for what i mean by responsive enough )

http://images.apple.com/macosx/technology/...ef_20090608.pdf

nothing will happen instantly, programs open in less then 3 seconds, my Pictures directory has all my backgrounds in it, and yes it thumbnails come up in less then a second ( 2.34GB 4,421 items according to Info

I will never understand these comments. Surely there's room for improvement in starting/shutting the system, loading system applications, browsing through a pile of PDFs/photographs in Finder, etc?

attitude because you dont agree with something ?

Or does everything happen instantly for you?

[giga Veteran]

I'm not sure what you mean by "other areas". 64-bit applications do get a larger address space and memory advantage, but they can also take advantage of additional instructions and registers from the x86-64 architecture.

Your second paragraph I can't comprehend much, but Grand Central Dispatch is heavily targeted for third party developers. I don't believe any third party applications are GCD aware/optimized.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

agreed, but what im assuming is that because Programs are no longer able to directly access the hardware, a 32bit OS would not be able to take advantage/understand the 64 bit hardware above that 32bit barrier ) aka the hardware would be running in a 32 bit mode so to speak, relaying that to the overlaying program.

*Edit* thought of something along the lines of virtual IRQ's, would the OS if it was 32bit be doing the 64bit calls virtually ( if possable)

dont midunderstand me, just wondering how a 32bit Kernel/extensions would be able to handle a 64bit program

I'm not sure what you mean by "other areas". 64-bit applications do get a larger address space and memory advantage, but they can also take advantage of additional instructions and register from the x86-64 architecture.

yea, was sounding like it was primarily for developers, if no 3rd party apps are GCD, im shure shortly after 10.6 they will be in recent versions of the 3rd party apps

Your second paragraph I can't comprehend much, but Grand Central Dispatch is heavily targeted for third party developers. I don't believe any third party applications are GCD aware/optimized.

[giga Veteran]

A 64-bit program doesn't need a 64-bit kernel to directly take advantage of the additional registers available on your Core 2 Duo. This is corroborated by the two Lightroom 64-bit links I posted above.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

actually that link just gives numbers. not how. i remember back during the Nvidia/Ati thing with 3dmark and putting specific code to tell when it was being run to falisfy the numbers. that just corroberates that the 64bit version faster then the 64 bit version, 10.5.6 is also faster then 10.5.5

and

There was something in the 2.1 release notes about enabling SSE extensions in 64-bit mode ? sounds like that might have been the bug!

and

and also had a bunch of mumbo-jumbo about how there is more overhead in accessing memory in 64-bit mode (which I?m not sure I believe, but I?m not up to speed enough on the Leopard 64-bit implementation to know for sure

is making me think he was using the OS in 64bit mode, as why would a 64bit program have a 32bit mode if there is already a 32bit separate version and the 64bit version would run and acess everything the 32bit does withought problems

A 64-bit program doesn't need a 64-bit kernel to directly take advantage of the additional registers available on your Core 2 Duo. This is corroborated by the two Lightroom 64-bit links I posted above.

[giga Veteran]

The OS he was using was Leopard, where there is no 64-bit kernel. The program contains binaries for both x86-64 and x86 architectures, thus having both modes. The extra SSE instructions are part of the x86-64 architecture.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

found Apple Insider article, talks about 10.5 and what it does with the 64bit thing, specifically

Leopard's 32-bit kernel enabled Apple to ship 64-bit development tools to give coders the ability to build applications that can work with huge data sets in a 64-bit virtual memory space (and port over existing 64-bit code), without also requiring an immediate upgrade to all of Mac OS X's drivers and other kernel-level extensions. That transition will happen with Snow Leopard.

if it handle's the 64app/32bit kernel virtually like that reads, then it fits. as the 32bit kernel in 10.6 would just do a virtual thing unless it was in 64bit.

i might have been explaining my thinking wrong, and prolly will agian when im still under impression that if the OS cant access the 64 architecture of the hardware, then neither can the applications riding on it. aka 4GB memory limit on a 32bit OS, even if the board/chipset/processor is 64 bit, no matter how much memory you put in it, it will only be able to use less then 4GB, unless you put a 64bit OS on it, and im assuming the Kernel is the lynchpin of the OS a 32bit kernel dictates a 32bit OS, same with a 64bit Kernel ( 64bit OS )

The OS he was using was Leopard, where there is no 64-bit kernel. The program contains binaries for both x86-64 and x86 architectures, thus having both modes. The extra SSE instructions are part of the x86-64 architecture.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Hell-In-A-Handbasket

[PyX]

my laptop is responsive already

:(

Gosh, I'm studying in industrial engineering to optimize stuff, I know I will get these kind of replies all day long :

"My company already produces enough units"

"The budget of my company is pretty optimized already"

"I can do this without your tool for just 2 seconds more, so just keep it."

"Buying a new machine's going to cost as much if we keep this employee who presses aswitch every 5 seconds... so let's keep the guy"

"I'll continue to work in this f****d-up position, because your proposition will slow my work a little bit."

But they make me cry!!! Optimization is about the best thing you can get out of everything (in every sense of the term).

I never understood people saying these things, and I know this is why I will have a hard time defending my propositions...

--

I personally tried Snow Leopard betas on my MacBook Unibody and it's pretty darn solid. People saying it isn't worth $29 are completely off of the track. How in the world could you implement so many under-the-hood features in a Service Pack? 64-bit from top to bottom itself is quite something, let alone the rest.

Also, keep in mind that one day or another, you will have to end up with Snow Leopard. So you should pay that $29 right now (ok, in September...) and get the best out of your machine instead of waiting and waiting.

When Snow Leopard only applications will be released and you'll want them, you'll have to upgrade.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

you do realize that computers being fast enough are subjective to the person right ? a computer can be fast enough for 1 person, and to bloody slow for another ? if you want to take it another way, i said it was responsive, when i tell it to do something it does it, it doesn't sit there and do nothing, it is responsive enough FOR ME

and i dont have to get snow lepard if i dont want to, my Programs will not Magically stop working when 10.6 come out, my laptop will still turn on, and run what is installed, if a program isnt compatable with 10.5 anymore, guess what, nobody is holding a gun to my head to install it/use it.

oo, 10.6 saved me +/- 1second on a program opening, OMG what will i do with all the free time. if a program opens in 2 or 3 seconds, so what, i dont care. The benefits of a Pure 64 top to bottom OS/Programs are worthwhile for me, but not for speed reasons. the only information that i have seen regarding it shows that my laptop wont be able to take advantage of that, therefore makes the whole thing moot.

I am of the opinion that 10.6 is not worthwhile for me to buy DEAL WITH IT and move on

:(

snip

[Astra.Xtreme]

I just installed the SL "leak" and it seems a bit smoother than Leopard.

I have the upgrade on pre-order, but I figure it's worth checking out now if it's out there.

So far so good. Can't really ask for more. :)

[.Neo]

I'm sold on this OS. If you select multiple files on the Desktop the selection frame fades in and out. Seriously, how cool is that! :happy:

my laptop is responsive already

Using that logic you could have stuck with Mac OS 9 or Windows 98 back in the days. :p

Edited August 15, 2009 by .Neo

[Quillz]

People saying it isn't worth $29 are completely off of the track.

How can you speak for everyone here? Sure, perhaps to you and me, it's only $29, but for others, that's an investment that could perhaps be better spent elsewhere.

Also, keep in mind that one day or another, you will have to end up with Snow Leopard. So you should pay that $29 right now (ok, in September...) and get the best out of your machine instead of waiting and waiting.

When Snow Leopard only applications will be released and you'll want them, you'll have to upgrade.

It's not a "when," it's an "if." I can understand Leopard-only applications, but I've yet to see any evidence that would suggest certain applications will run only on Snow Leopard.

I'm sold on this OS. If you select multiple files on the Desktop the selection frame fades in and out. Seriously, how cool is that! :happy:

Using that logic you could have stuck with Mac OS 9 or Windows 98 back in the days. :p

And many still do. As recently as last week, I was using a PC with Windows 95 on it.

[.Neo]

It's not a "when," it's an "if." I can understand Leopard-only applications, but I've yet to see any evidence that would suggest certain applications will run only on Snow Leopard.

How is it any less likely for an application to become Snow Leopard-only than Leopard (and above)-only?

And many still do. As recently as last week, I was using a PC with Windows 95 on it.

You took that response a bit too serious...