Watercooling Questions

[BoJo]

Would a singe 360mm rad (the TFC 360mm to be precise) cool a reasonably overclocked processor (something like a core 2 extreme - I'd probably up the multipliers a little and jack the FSB up = high voltage) and the future equivalent of quad SLId 9800gx2s (I'm guessing that they will run at roughly the same temps - though correct me if this is BS) on the same loop?

Sorry for the bunched up brackets :p

Would want to run at low temps. Also, I would be running (delta fans ) (190 CFM FTW!) in the top of a cosmos s; and using 8/10mm compression tubing with a 700lh pump. I can't find any 480mm rads in the UK, but if anyone knows of where I can get them (I know they're out there lol) in the UK and a case where I can fit it in then I'm open to suggestions :)

Sorry for posting vague specs but this is a potential build option, and I like to do my research well in advance - and figured that water cooling is something you can carry over to another time so...

Edited June 13, 2008 by CwSj

[gwai lo]

I've read that the performance on these aren't that much better than Swiftech's MCR's for example and then considering the price premium over the MCR's, I think I'd opt to bling down the system. That's my opinion anyway, you're also buying an EE chip so I guess diminishing returns doesn't bother you.

I'm wondering if that much power would warrant at least dual rads though..

[BoJo]

Yeah that's what I was thinking :(

Well, I suppose i could strap one on the back and one in the top compartment. That would be absurdly, ridiculously loud. This also does not bother me (yeah neither does the EEs, sorry lol).

Though I don't mind blinging down the rads ;) as I don't have much w/c experience (though am very willing to learn and will literally learn through the summer).

[gwai lo]

The noise would depend on the fans you decide to use as well as how noise affects you. I run a MCR320 with triple low speed Yate Loons in a SFF (so it's on my desk) and I don't think they're loud.

Circaflex should have some other ideas on the loop and rad, he's had more experience with water than me.

[BoJo]

Great stuff! Frankly, to me, noise is really of secondary importance as I will be wearing headphones while gaming etc. so when I need to I'll be able to hear :p Though 6 x 190CFM on the outside of my case doesn't sound to hot...

Thanks for all the input gwai - much appreciated.

[BoJo]

What if I only overclocked the CPU and left the graphics on stock voltage + used those ridiculous fans? I only mean like an 800MHz OC - so nothing ridiculous. *hopful*

[BoJo]

New idea. Sorry, couldn't edit my last post to include this.

Could I run a 120.2 and a 120.3 in series with the same pump/res - and would this be less effective than the same rads each in their own loop?

So sorry for all the questions :( but me = watercooling n00b

[Circaflex]

You can run a 120.2 and a 120.3 in series with a single pump and single res. Flow might not be as high so be sure to get a less restrictive block. Id opt for the HE series if you have high powered delta fans.

On to your question of effectiveness, obviously 2 separate loops because each has its own pump, so you could get a restrictive block like the fuzion and not worry. If you want to go that route, run dual pumps with dual rad's in series off a single res, better yet a 120.3 and a 160.1 would be an ideal option (thats what i ran with a quad, crossfire 2900xt and northbridge just fine)

[BoJo]

That does sound like a really good solution actually :)

I'd probably use the cosmos s so i could sling the 120.3 in the top and then strap a 160.1 (haven't seen any of those in the UK though) or maybe a 120.2 on the back - or would it fit into empty 5.25" drive bays. Do rads come with mountings and stuff to fit to the back of the case or would I have to mod it in (never done this before :p).

As for flow, I think the EH Supreme is quite high restriction so I'd have to go for 2 pumps. I'm not really sure what the HE edition you were talking about is, but maybe it's what I was thinking about earlier, which was that I'd go for a higher density fin rad (thinking Blackice) because this would perform better if I had a really high airflow through it right?

Will it affect the performance much if i go for 8/10mm compression as opposed to something like a 3/8" barb setup? It's just that I heard compression settings are much less likely to spring a leak (even though I'd keep it all copper and use non-conductive coolant I'd still be paranoid :p).

Thanks very much for the really helpful advice guys :)

[gwai lo]

Rads come with screws and stuff, as long as your case as the mounting for it you should be good to go.

HE series, I think he was talking about these:

http://www.thermochill.com/he1201.php

http://www.thermochill.com/he1202.php

http://www.thermochill.com/he1203.php

As for compression settings, the performance seems to change from system to system and different people seem read them differently. Personally, I'd be concerned with the flow from your finalized loop before thinking too much about them.

Quick question Circaflex: dual pumps and rads in series off a single res. As in:

res -> rad -> pump -> rad -> pump -> block?

..because it sounds like you're agreeing with the dual loop idea, which in that case are you talking about:

		-> pump -> rad -> GPU
res =<
		-> pump -> rad -> CPU

This reminds me of electricity and optics and calculating resistance for resistors in series and parallel..always got it backwards for some reason.

Edited June 13, 2008 by gwai lo

[BoJo]

Excellent that's what I was thinking of - loads of really dense fins to optimize cooling (though it wouldn't work if you had a low CFM fan). Will try to get a hold of some of those in the UK. This is all coming together now :) Thinking for simplicity's sake I'll use 2 different loops - which would look kind of cool if I used 2 different colours :D

My loop would probably look like this:

 res -> pump -> cpu -> rad 
res -> pump -> gpu -> gpu (2) -> rad

For the reason that it's a bit overcomplicated to run a loop with 2 of everything (and the pump is the bit that i would have saved money on if only using one so no point in making it more complex to save a tiny bit of money for a res)

Thanks very much to both of you - it really is appreciated. Great to have people who actually know what they're talking about :p

Edited June 13, 2008 by CwSj

[Circaflex]

When i had my h2o i went res>pump>160.1>pump>120.3>cpu>gpu

There are pros to each 2 loops or 1 giant loop.

The reason to go Dual loops is to seperate the heat from non critical components from the CPU. If you have two different tubing sizes for blocks it might make sense too or if you dont want to mix metals. For instance have 1 loop for the CPU that is 1/2" tubing and then make a smaller loop with a single RAD for mosfets, NB, and SB using 3/8" tubing. However you are only looking at 2 blocks and I do not think that the GPU is going to add that much more heat that it's worth it to go two loops. I would go single loop and i say this because if pumps are placed such so they will be separated in the loop with equal flow resistance clockwise and counter-clockwise in the loop. This way, each pump will effectively be working against half the resistance, close to resistance of the single loop.

The added advantages of single loop include but not limited to: redundancy (with 2 pumps), easier to manage IMO compared to 2, and better performance most of the time. The later is due to the simple fact that simultaneous full load for all components is not a likely condition.

[BoJo]

Ah ha... I get it. OK... I can't find any 160.1 radiators, so do you reckon a 120.3 and a 120.1 in the same loop (with the high airflow fans) would work well enough in a single loop to cool dual GPUs and an OCd CPU? This would also probably be a good option for me because I doubt if I could fit a 120.2 in the 5.25" bays with my other drives - but I could fit a 120.1 at the back (as long as I didn't need big shrouds).

I also like the redundancy idea of the two pumps, so thats another plus for this giant system idea. As to the advantage of the 2 loops being lack of galvanic corrosion, it doesn't really matter because my blocks and rads are just copper/accrylic.

Just wondering, due to the high restriction of the CPU/GPU cards' blocks (EK supreme and 2 x EK 9800GX2), should I arrange my system like you put above, or should I go for something else? This I suppose really boils down to: if I put 2 rads together and then the CPU>GPU>GPU bit, will the last GPU be less efficiently cooled, or does the heat balance into an equilibrium for all of the loop? Sorry if that's a really beginnerish question :p

Also, I don't think I'll water cool my mosfet/NB/SB, because I don't really care about noise from the fans and my case has got quite a few already (I would have 3 120mm & a 200mm going in and then the fans from the 2 rads going out).

Thanks for the expert advice! You've definitely helped me change my mind for the better about my cooling setup :)

[Brodel]

I think the single loop would work well enough, you have a lot of surface area with those rads.

The order of the loop will not really change temps as it should settle out after running for a while. People argue that it does but the difference is very small in my opinion and you'd be better just arranging it to whichever fits into your system better. Obviously if you are getting two pumps then their position does matter. I always like to have the res before the pump just so that it guarantees a good flow of water to the intake of the pump as well. Not an option for both if you are using two pumps but worth thinking about for one.

[Circaflex]

Loop order doesnt really matter too much, just make sure the res is before the pump. Id say something like res>pump>rad1>cpu>rad2>gpu>pump2

[Brodel]

Loop order doesnt really matter too much, just make sure the res is before the pump. Id say something like res>pump>rad1>cpu>rad2>gpu>pump2

It doesn't make sense having the pumps that close with something like the res inbetween. Surely it would be more effective in the middle of the most resistant parts of the loop? for example res>pump1>rad1>cpu>pump2>rad2>gpu.

[gwai lo]

That's what I was thinking when I read it, typo of sorts? Plus that means the second pump is pushing right into the res, which seems to negate the extra pressure added by the second pump.

[Circaflex]

whoops was a typo

when i had my loop rolling i went res>pump1>pa160.1>pump2>120.3>cpu>gpu because of space that was easiest to router otherwise

this would work too res>pump1>rad1>cpu>pump2>rad2>gpu

[Brodel]

ah ok, no worries :)

I need to build a new loop soon. Although it cost me quite a bit, I am convinced it's saved me money in the long run. It's mean that I've held out on upgrading my system for so long because I can't be bothered with doing it all again and am making sure I get the most out of my current setup.

[BoJo]

Yeah that's what my post meant. Sorry for kinda not paying attention...exams... :(

Brodel, you're in the UK, where do you buy your parts etailer wise? I'm looking at fittings (they have the only 3/8" compression in the UK lol) from watercoolingshop.com and rads etc. from specialtech but do you know anywhere else that's good.

Thanks for the great advice guys :D

[gwai lo]

If he doesn't buy from petrastechshop, you should at least take a look.

[Brodel]

I got most of my stuff from CoolerCases. They have a really good shop as well as a good for sale/trade forum. The owner is very helpful and active on the forums, he sells a lot of items that he's used one time for reviews at good prices too. I got my rads from specialtech and the tubing from this ebay store and I'd use them all again.

The XtremeSystems forum was also helpful too and has quite a few UK members. I seem to remember there being a list of UK retailers there but can't find it at the moment. Obviously places like ebuyer and overclockers etc sell bits and peices too but it's usually not high end items.

Like gwai lo said, petrastechshop is a good site but personally I've never bought anything from it. I wanted to buy all my items within the UK just in case I had to return anything or get stung on import duty. The exchange rate wasn't as good as it is now though so it could be worth a shot.

[BoJo]

Thanks for the heads up on that ebay store and coolercases. Especially the ebay store looks good for those little items like mounts etc. I wish I was in the US for stuff like petratechshop :p

I feel like I know a lot more about watercooling thanks to you guys :D Thanks very very much for all the amazing help :) Off to the sites to start filling up completely unrealistic carts now :p