About to become a new Mac user

[Cara Veteran]

Come on now, "symbiotic relationship", you sound like an Apple sales rep, i would bet there's more 7 year old PCs than there are 7 year old macs.

I would greatly disagree with that statement, when I get to work tomorrow I'll see if I can't find the Gartner article about Apple Lifecycles. (Unless someone can beat me to it.)

[HistoricalNeowin]

Actually, just had a thought, isn't Snow Leopard going to be incompatible with some older macs?

[Cara Veteran]

Actually, just had a thought, isn't Snow Leopard going to be incompatible with some older macs?

It is said to be, however until the final product is released it will be impossible to know for sure.

[sanctified Veteran]

So in 3 years, the machine will be very good, and can then last 5 years or more? Macs aren't made of magic hardware, it may "last" as in it won't break down but it won't be great in 7 years just because it's a mac.

Great relative to what?

PC gaming has created a set of mind where its necessary to upgrade every year, but for other tasks that machine will be powerful enough for years to come. There are people that still use Amigas for video production for example, I know people that still use G5 or even G4 machines for music production that are very well equiped and can be even considered beast machines today. Everything depends of how well you use your equipment, for what tasks.

For example, a photographer who uses photoshop or any other photo manipulation software for just photo retouching and processing dont need an ultra machine or even the latest software. A top of the line Powermac G4 with Tiger and Photoshop CS or CS2 if you will its more than enough. In my opinion thinking otherwise its just another example of a consumer mindset.

Come on now, "symbiotic relationship", you sound like an Apple sales rep, i would bet there's more 7 year old PCs than there are 7 year old macs.

Honestly Mac's lifecycle its way longer than PC's. Let me do a search for the articles and studies. :)

[sanctified Veteran]

, i would bet there's more 7 year old PCs than there are 7 year old macs.

Also, that logic its a little flawed. Of course there are more 7 year pcs than macs, pcs are a lot more. The true number to consider would be percentage of pcs that reach that age vs percentage of macs tha reach that age.

[xWhiplash]

Thanks for all the advice. People keep telling me 8 cores is overkill and nothing uses it, but if im running Vista/XP with parallels (maybe both), editing HD size videos and large music files, working with wallpaper sized photoshop docs with many layers, and anything else, will all 8 cores be used? Meaning will I notice a difference between 4 cores and 8 cores?

[Cara Veteran]

Thanks for all the advice. People keep telling me 8 cores is overkill and nothing uses it, but if im running Vista/XP with parallels (maybe both), editing HD size videos and large music files, working with wallpaper sized photoshop docs with many layers, and anything else, will all 8 cores be used? Meaning will I notice a difference between 4 cores and 8 cores?

Very few things will use that many cores, correct. That being said I've had both a 4 core and 8 core Mac Pro on my desk at work at one point in time and I can feel the difference between the models, the 8 core is slightly faster and feels more powerful when pushing heavy multitasking at it... Yes, it could be mental since I know it's more powerful, but it does feel faster to me.

[sanctified Veteran]

Thanks for all the advice. People keep telling me 8 cores is overkill and nothing uses it, but if im running Vista/XP with parallels (maybe both), editing HD size videos and large music files, working with wallpaper sized photoshop docs with many layers, and anything else, will all 8 cores be used? Meaning will I notice a difference between 4 cores and 8 cores?

Nothing uses all the cores NOW but I always think about the future. And since it seems you are doing HD media edition I would get a powerful machine that will last me for years.

[xWhiplash]

Does the mac come with free drive imaging software like Norton Ghost?

[se7en.hu]

you can use Carbon Copy Cloner. Free ;)

But then theres time machine which is even better :p

[PL_ Veteran]

Thanks for all the advice. People keep telling me 8 cores is overkill and nothing uses it, but if im running Vista/XP with parallels (maybe both), editing HD size videos and large music files, working with wallpaper sized photoshop docs with many layers, and anything else, will all 8 cores be used? Meaning will I notice a difference between 4 cores and 8 cores?

Grand Central in Snow Leopard may mean that yes, 8 cores will become more useful.

[wase4711]

Well, as a lifelong (25 years+) wintel user, who recently switched to Mac, for me, the decision on what to buy was simple.

I bought a macbook laptop for my general laptop usage, like surfing in the family room, outside, and doing light word processing and other basic pc tasks, and for use when traveling.

Its small, lightweight, and relatively inexpensive.

for my "main" unit I bought a Mac Pro, 2.8, with 4 gigs of ram, and installed another 4 gigs myself for a total of 8 gigs.

I do video processing, editing, and all sorts of other things, and never EVER notice any sort of slowdown or bottleneck.

Eventually, software is coming that will use your 8 cores, so, don't worry about "overkill" at this point.

To me, a Desktop blows away anything a laptop can do, and, if you are gonna spend 4,000 bucks, you can get afford to get both..

The lappy is around 1200 bucks, and the desk top is around 2800....

the difference in performance between the 2.8 and the 3.06 processor was minimal, so I used some of the savings between those 2 to get the extra 4 gigs of ram.

Use any other brand of RAM except Apples, and you save around 150 bucks on 4 additional gigs.

And, I installed symantec AV on this machine, only because you never know what you might be downloading, or what junk some emails may have attached or embedded in them, so, contrary to what alot of folks say here, I suggest having some sort of AV on the machine, just in case.

Besides, with 8 gigs of ram, i never notice any sort of performance hits since installing it, and now a days, you can never be too "protected".

[Cara Veteran]

so I used some of the savings between those 2 to get the extra 4 gigs of ram.

Use any other brand of RAM except Apples, and you save around 150 bucks on 4 additional gigs.

And, I installed symantec AV on this machine, only because you never know what you might be downloading, or what junk some emails may have attached or embedded in them, so, contrary to what alot of folks say here, I suggest having some sort of AV on the machine, just in case.

Where I don't agree with your stance on Antivirus on the Mac, I will say you are 100% correct on not buying the RAM from Apple, it just isn't worth the excessive premium that is put on Memory from the stores and online store. :p

Crucial is my poison of choice for a Mac Pro.

[Chad]

And, I installed symantec AV on this machine, only because you never know what you might be downloading, or what junk some emails may have attached or embedded in them, so, contrary to what alot of folks say here, I suggest having some sort of AV on the machine, just in case.

You made the right choice. Never listen to anyone who tells you not to have anti-virus software. It's quite short-sighted. If nothing else, it prevents your Mac from being a conduit for Windows viruses. I'd rather give up a few processor cycles running AV software than send something on to my family.

[wase4711]

@Cara, you are entitiled to your opinion, and, even though there aren't many, if any Mac SPECIFIC virus threats at this point, we ALL get "stuff" via email and other ways from our "friends" using Windows machines, (USB drives, cd/DVD's, etc.) and you never know what they might have accidentally given to you...

Kinda like having sex with someone without protection...you MAY not have a problem, and the person MAY seem "clean as a whistle", but is it worth the risk, when a little protection will ensure your safety?

@Chad, not sure I am giving up any processor cycles that I can even notice, with 8 gigs of RAM in this bad boy!

BTW Cara, you are one AWESUM resource here for all things Mac...Thanks for helping so many folks out all the time! :yes:

[_bobcat_ Veteran]

Does OS X allow you to, is it "assign affinity" so that, say, program x is run by core 1, and program y is run by core 2? I think it can be done under Windows...

If that can be set up, even manually, then 8 cores might be more worthwhile before Snow Leopard.

Generally though, I go for what I *need* as hardware is always getting cheaper. Why pay more for more than you need (like an 8 core that is still expensive), when you could wait three years until you actually need that much power, and get the same for less (when those 8 cores will surely be far cheaper).

[wase4711]

nope, it doesn't allow for that...and, I never heard of windows being capable of that either..

[Cara Veteran]

@Cara, you are entitiled to your opinion, and, even though there aren't many, if any Mac SPECIFIC virus threats at this point, we ALL get "stuff" via email and other ways from our "friends" using Windows machines, (USB drives, cd/DVD's, etc.) and you never know what they might have accidentally given to you...

Kinda like having sex with someone without protection...you MAY not have a problem, and the person MAY seem "clean as a whistle", but is it worth the risk, when a little protection will ensure your safety?

BTW Cara, you are one AWESUM resource here for all things Mac...Thanks for helping so many folks out all the time! :yes:

Creative analogy. ;)

I suppose I deal mainly with file transfer between Apple users and rarely actually forward non-secure files onto anyone so I don't give a lot of thought to what I might pass along in an email or other. All of the Windows Environments I have on my systems are sand-boxed, no direct interaction with the Mac OS portions of my system so I suppose to each their own. :) I run a clean and tight ship on my computers and my personal networks and rely on the security of the corporate network at work to insure I have no large problems there.

With that being said, if someone wants to run an Antivirus, be my guest, however the offerings for Mac OS are actually quite pitiful in both performance and availability due to the lack of demand for them at this time.

As for being a resource here, that is my goal. :) I'm here to help where I can, thank you for the compliment.

[xWhiplash]

Wont opening the case void the warranty though? if I get 2GB then buy all 8 of crucial, I will need to open the case.

Also, Windows can manually manage cores, mac cant?:

EDIT: Are the SAS drives worth it?

# 300GB 15,000-rpm SAS [Add $650.00]

[giga Veteran]

Processor affinity is supported by 10.5, but I have no clue how to set it manually. Leopard by itself attempts to keep a thread running on the same core/processor.

Controlling cores can be done through the Processor prefpane.

[Cara Veteran]

Wont opening the case void the warranty though? if I get 2GB then buy all 8 of crucial, I will need to open the case.

Also, Windows can manually manage cores, mac cant?:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4042/affinityby8.png

EDIT: Are the SAS drives worth it?

# 300GB 15,000-rpm SAS [Add $650.00]

Memory is a user-serviceable component and won't violate your warranty to add. :)

As for SAS...all I can say is Holy Speed Batman. SAS is typically used on Servers when speed is needed to the extreme, those things are amazingly fast. They are actually the same drives from the Xserve server line.

[xWhiplash]

So you recommend getting 4GB from Apple, then buy another 4 from somewhere else?

[MasterC]

So you recommend getting 4GB from Apple, then buy another 4 from somewhere else?

Never buy RAM from Apple! Stick with whatever the computer comes with, then order more from Crucial, MacSales, etc.

[Cara Veteran]

So you recommend getting 4GB from Apple, then buy another 4 from somewhere else?

Never buy RAM from Apple! Stick with whatever the computer comes with, then order more from Crucial, MacSales, etc.

Agreed, never buy RAM from Apple, you will overpay hundreds of dollars. :) Go with base config on memory and then head for Crucial.

[Denis W. Veteran]

Agreed, never buy RAM from Apple, you will overpay hundreds of dollars. :) Go with base config on memory and then head for Crucial.

Just curious; do you know which brand of RAM are used in today's Macs on the market?

(and another plus one for Crucial :))