Find My Bottleneck

[Andrew Tomaka]

I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice for fixing an issue I've been having with my PC.

System Specifications:

Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit (Vista Score: http://ctscreens.net/10553)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4800+ (CPUZ: http://ctscreens.net/10550)

DFI Lanparty Motherboard (CPUZ: http://ctscreens.net/10551)

4.00 GB memory (CPUZ: http://ctscreens.net/10552)

GeForce 7800 GTX (GPUZ: http://gpuz.techpowerup.com/08/07/03/ew8.png)

Problem:

In video games, I am experiencing terrible performance, My recent experience is limited to World of Warcraft, which should be relatively light-weight, but I've had issues with Battlefield 2, Portal, and Team Fortress 2 as well. In games, my FPS will often spike as low as 8 FPS and usually run around 20 FPS. In World of Warcraft, I can hide myself in an area with no other drawn in characters (player or non-player) and can reach much higher FPS (60 with V-Sync on or ~100 without). I first assumed the issue was with my graphics card. I made sure I was using the most up-to-date drivers and also tried using the Omega Drivers with no improvement to my FPS. I then started messing with my graphics settings. Changing from the bare minimum settings (both in game and via the nVidia control panel) to maximum settings (including moving from 1xMultisampling to 4xMultisampling) netted me only about a 5 FPS gain moving from ~20 FPS to ~25 FPS. It seems like if I can change settings that drastically with such a minimum performance change that the bottleneck must be at another part of my system.

Up until recently, I was running on Windows XP Professional 32-bit and experiencing the same issues so it isn't Operating System related. When I reformatted about two weeks ago, I decided to try out Vista to see if I would see a performance improvement by moving to a 64-Bit OS. Since then, my program installations have been pretty minimal: Drivers, Firefox, VLC, HydraIRC, Filezilla, Digsby, Notepad++, and World of Warcraft so I'm relatively certain that it is not a software issue. Since I installed Vista, I occasionally experience crashes in game when I am alt+tabbed checking a browser or something, but this is a new issue that came with Vista and could be completely unrelated to my FPS issue.

I do know that when I first built my PC (almost two and a half years ago) I did not have these issues. You'd think that I would have noticed the huge hit in FPS (dropping from 60-100 FPS down to sub-20 FPS) but I have no idea when it happened and only know that it's been an issue for at least the last six months.

Any suggestions that you all could offer would be greatly appreciated!

Edited July 3, 2008 by Andrew Tomaka

[-Vivicidal-]

Faulty component such as RAM or CPU?

Try Memtest86+.

[gwai lo]

Updated drivers?

No problems in device manager?

[Andrew Tomaka]

Faulty component such as RAM or CPU?

Try Memtest86+.

I ran Memtest86+ ~2 weeks ago. The tests returned without any errors.

Updated drivers?

No problems in device manager?

Some of my motherboard drivers may be out of date at this exact moment since I have only let the Vista update handle this, but everything else has been updated within the last two weeks. In the past, the motherboard drivers were completely updated by hand and the issue still existed. Device Manager shows zero flags. I actually think the drivers may be the issue causing my crashing since the first time I tried Vista (~6 months ago) I was receiving stop errors relating to audio until I updated my audio driver by hand instead of letting Vista do it.

[Brian M. Veteran]

Have you tried running the usual hard disk diagnostics?

[Mando]

with all that hardware what PSU are you using? poor 3d performance can be due to power supplies not feeding the system with a steady strong supply. also if possible see what the quality of power is to the PSU. A generic 500W psu wont give enough amps out on the 12v rails etc not all 500W psus are all the same.

If its ok in a normal windows env but seems to struggle in "3dmode" then this could be a tell tale sign.

[gwai lo]

Seems unlikely, if it wasn't feeding enough power to the components then they wouldn't start up at all. A bad PSU may have additional noise and ripple on the lines that could kill components over time.

[Typhon]

Do you have vista sp1 plus all the updates like directx 9?

[Mando]

Seems unlikely, if it wasn't feeding enough power to the components then they wouldn't start up at all. A bad PSU may have additional noise and ripple on the lines that could kill components over time.

not neccesarily, true, cold boot uses a lot of power but levels off once machine has post. Its a

small surge, a psu struggling to supply it comfortably would still pass the cold boot, nothing saying its a bad psu as such just it cant provide enough amps on the cards rail is what im getting at matey.

"3d-mode" uses more current over time and if a psu is getting by on windows mode, it can struggle with games etc in the manner hes described.

tell tale signs are hotter than normal air exhaust from psu and sometimes a lovely smell if left long enough hehe. 3d performance can also be sporadic.

[Andrew Tomaka]

Have you tried running the usual hard disk diagnostics?

I have run the Western Digital Data LifeGuard Diagnostics tool, but only ran the Quick Test since I didn't really see it being the issue. If you think it could be related, I could run the extended test. Other than the WD Diagnostics tool, what other hard disk diagnostics are considered "usual."

with all that hardware what PSU are you using? poor 3d performance can be due to power supplies not feeding the system with a steady strong supply. also if possible see what the quality of power is to the PSU. A generic 500W psu wont give enough amps out on the 12v rails etc not all 500W psus are all the same.

If its ok in a normal windows env but seems to struggle in "3dmode" then this could be a tell tale sign.

I had considered the power supply, but don't have the hardware to test to make sure proper amps are going out. It's sort of the last thing I'm looking to explore since it pretty much means buying a new PSU blindly and hoping it's the cause so I want to exhaust other possibilities first. I did test using a second psu (at the same time, not a replacement) to power just my video card and leaving my primary psu to power the motherboard, dvd-rom, and hdd but performance remained the same. I guess that really isn't an effective test to rule out your suggestion though.

Do you have vista sp1 plus all the updates like directx 9?

Yes. SP1 and all Windows Vista updates have been installed.

[Mando]

slip off the side case and jot down the make and wattage rating on your psu bud and while your there jot down all the +12v, +3.3v and +5v amp ratings down and post em bud.

[gwai lo]

hm, so we're talking way under spec voltages with these "brown outs"?

They sound horrendously bad for the hardware.

[Andrew Tomaka]

slip off the side case and jot down the make and wattage rating on your psu bud and while your there jot down all the +12v, +3.3v and +5v amp ratings down and post em bud.

First is the PSU that usually runs the system solo. Second is what I've tested plugging into just the PSU. I never got much into the power side of computers so if you need more information, just ask and try to direct me to where I can find it :)

350W Turbolink

----------------------------

+12v - 12A

+5v - 35A

+3.3v - 24A

250W DTK

---------------------------

+12v - 10A

+5v - 25A

I would imagine the first is just a generic power supply. I borrowed it from a buddy when my original psu stopped functioning. The problem existed before when I was using my other (probably higher quality) psu, but I can't say whether that power supply was functioning at 100% since it eventually did die.

[gwai lo]

Do you have a model number or a UL number?

Apparently there are reports that it's CWT OEMed and/or Deer OEMed. The latter is the one you don't really want.

[FiB3R]

I don't think 350 watts is enough for your system, especially from a cheap generic power supply. And perhaps it's performance has started to decrease?

They never put out the power they say they do, far from it in many cases.

[Andrew Tomaka]

Do you have a model number or a UL number?

Turbolink LC-A350ATX

I am guessing this is likely the source of my headaches, but I'm still looking for any other possibilities to exhaust.

[gwai lo]

Rebadged Deer, no good no good.

[anamericangod]

I would definitely get a solid PSU.

[ViperAFK]

Yeah sounds like the psu, you might want to replace it or it could possibly take your pc down with it if it fails.

[M.F.D.K]

350 Watt definitely not enough for you system, I'm pretty sure its the PSU.

[gwai lo]

How'd you come to that conclusion?

80.7W by the 7800 GTX

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/dis...-indepth_6.html

+ 65W by the X2 4800+

http://techreport.com/articles.x/11473

?!

PSU wattage isn't the problem, it may be power output...or it may not be. Either way, it's not a particularly good unit.

[FiB3R]

How'd you come to that conclusion?

80.7W by the 7800 GTX

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/dis...-indepth_6.html

+ 65W by the X2 4800+

http://techreport.com/articles.x/11473

?!

PSU wattage isn't the problem, it may be power output...or it may not be. Either way, it's not a particularly good unit.

What about the rest of the system?

mobo, memory, drives, fans? It all adds up, right?

[gwai lo]

Not to >200 W no. A few amps here and there on different lines, but the two highest drawing components by far are the GPU and CPU. If you have enough hard drives, then one may have to worry about the load on the 12v at startup, but other than that nothing else is really considered.

[+shift. MVC]

That PSU is just :x no offense to the OP. I would grab a new one even if it supplies enough power to your computer.

[Andrew Tomaka]

I understand the PSU is awful. But I'm pretty sure the problem lies elsewhere (especially after the last couple days). I've also tested another psu (still a crappy generic with higher map rating on the rails) with exactly zero performance change.

The performance of my machine seems to declining out of control. For at least six months, I've been having these fps issues. When I made my initial post about this, I was having some ocassional issues with the system locking up (maybe 2-3 times over the course of two weeks and then two times where it seemed that 3d mode locked up but recovered after ~1 minute).

Two nights ago, it started locking up after about 5 minutes of being in the game no matter what (I've only been logging in and sitting around waiting for the crash to test and not actually playing). Running at the windows desktop has been fine (except for a single crash when I was starting up "Speed Fan" to watch temperatures - I've since been able to start Speed Fan with no issues). When in game, temperatures do not seem to be increasing out of control. After this started happening, I pulled all parts from the case and have everything sitting on top of a packaging box on my desk.

Today, I've been seeing the same crashes if I attempt to load a game. However, I also have the added symptom of having issues booting after crashes. After two separate in game crashes (about two hours apart) I ran into a string of stop errors when booting. The stop errors all seemed to be different (codes included 7f, d1, 50, 7e, 3d, and 4e).

Any suggestions for actually figuring out which piece of hardware is faulty?