Time to start anew

[ThalSwe]

Been about four years since I last bought a computer and it have lasted me this long thanks to updates every now and again. But things are starting to run kind of slowish and struggle with the latest games, moves in slow-mo when multitasking and generally does things in a non-speedy manner.

Due to having two incomes at home I have managed to save away some money (quite a bit really) and decided its time for a new and good gaming (not entierly but...big parts) rig and turn this old thing into file storage. Can start with mentioning that I have little to no plans for overclocking or using Crossfire/SLI (won't be relevant since I am getting a Intel PSU). The computer will be used partly for games (TF2, Fallout 3, Diablo 3 etc) and for general computer use. I tend to multitask and simply have a lot of things running at once. Simply cant decide what to do sometimes so simply do it all at once. Will also start doing more photoediting due to a new found interest in photography and such.

As my last rig managed to last as long as it did I am planning to keep this new one alive for as long as possible and do upgrades along the way if needed. Prefer to go big from the start and make it last then to buy "good and cheap" setups everytime major updates happen with the technology.

So what is my plan for the computer:

Cases - Antec Case Performance One P182

Should be a overall cool and quiet case suitable for the build. ?Seems like my "best" option.

>Power Supply> - Corsair TX Series PSU 650W 120mm fan ATX 20/24-pin 4/8pin 12V650W should be enough for everything if I understand correctly or should I go for the 750W instead to be on the safe side (in case I eventually go for a new video card etc)?>

CPU> - Intel Core 2 QUAD Q9450 2.66GHz 12MB FSB1333 Boxed (with cpu-cooler!) Socket 775Not too expensive to be a rather good "new" Quad. ?The more expensive options is, well, too expensive and I wont wait for "Nehalem".

Know that multiple cores isnt that well supported in games but feel its better to go for a Quad then duo as once support arrives I think it will be focused around Quad or higher. ?Also prefer the boost Quad has over Duo when multitasking and using heavy duty applications.Motherboard/b> - Asus P5Q PRO iP45 4DDR2-DIMM 2PCI 5PCIe SATA Raid Audio GB-LAN Firewire Socket775 ATX

Really not sure what I should go for here. Looked at "P5Q Deluxe", "P5Q-E" and "P5Q Pro" and seems like I probably wont use much of the extra functions of the two first. Really need advice here. Went for Asus due to good personal experience and since I keep hearing good stuff about them. But maybe one of the other manufacturers (DFI,MSI,Gigabit) have a good motherboard you think I should go for?

RAM/b> - 2x Corsair XMS2-6400 TWIN2X4096-6400C5 G Xtreme 2x2048MB (tot. 4096MB) DDR2 PC2-6400 800MHz with Heatsink 5-5-5-18

From what I have read these will suit my non-overclocking plans. Know 8 GB is quite a lot but due to the price being ?as low as it is I might as well go for the extra 4 GB. Will get Vista Home Premium 64 for this build so will be using the RAM well.Video Card - PowerColor Radeon HD4870 512MB DDR5 TV-out HDTV DUAL DVI RETAIL PCI ExprOR 4870X2 when released

Understood that the HD4870 is among the best cards I can get for a ?"decent" price ?but considering that HD4870X2 "soon" will be released I am thinking I should wait. Will be running things on my 22" Samsung 226BW monitor at 1680x1050.<Hard Driveses -

OS/Software/Games: Western Digital RaptorX Gamer WD1500AHFD 150GB 10000rpm 16MB cache SATA Clear Cover

Might as well spoil myself with a speedy drive when I build a rig like this.s.

Storage: Western Digital Caviar XL WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200rpm 16MB Heard that this is a really good and quick drive as well as being a bit bigger.r.

The rest of the items (CD/DVD, Mouse + Keyboard, Speakers and Monitor) I already have so dont need to get new once for this computer (even if I am tempted to get a Logite;) G9 ;) ).

This lands somewhere around 2 120 USD when ordering from the site I have in mind (a swedish website called?Datorbutiken.com). Due to the currency difference its hard to compare prices of separate items between countries so will say that my budget is about what this ended up as (I am considering the fact that the HD4870X2 will add to the price). So if things are recommended to be changed it probably has to be in about the same price as the items mentioned and if its is "somewhat" more expensive it has to be for a rather good reAdditional questions:ns:?

- Does this look like a solid build?? Anything I should change in your opinion? (explain why rather then just mentioning another piece of hardware)

- Do I need any additional cooling or will the stock fans and CPU cooler be enough?

[gwai lo]

You don't need 650, you can step down if you want to save money. Unless you wanted to keep the PSU for builds down the line... Single card solutions don't need that much power at this point in time and it seems ridiculous if they continue like this (ridiculous in that we have to cool these things somehow).

With the board, should be fine. If you don't need the features, then don't buy it and save your money. Don't worry, you're not losing performance.

Those sticks of RAM sound expensive, I don't know if they are..but you can just pick up any old set of DDR2-800 or DDR2-667 and be fine. Without overclocking, it doesn't matter all that much. Just trying to save you money.

The 4850 will power your 1680?1050 resolution just fine, but if you want the extra performance the 4870 will be good too. Personally, I think the 4870x2 will be way too much for your resolution, which isn't necessarily bad...but I believe in the buy-what-you-need-now philosophy. Technology moves quickly, if you find that your GPU department is lacking in a year, there will probably be more powerful cards out for the same price.

The 640AAKS will pretty much pull even with the RaptorX, only the VelociRaptor beats it.;))

Stick with stock cooling since you're running stock clocks. If you find noise to be a problem when you build it, just update the thread and you can get some recommendations on heatsinks and fans. I wouldn't spend money on it now though, you'll get a stock heatsink so time is the only thing you lose if you decide to try it first.

[funkyjunky]

Looks like a really good build going there. :)

[ThalSwe]

Dont mind cutting down on the things I dont really "need" to save some money so thanks for the quick reply and the advice gwai lo.

Regarding...

...the power supply - If I step down from my above choice I am not quite as sure which one I should go for. The Corsair HX Series PSU 520W costs about the same (only a 8 USD difference) so there I might as well stay with the 650. Doesnt seem like they offer that many "good" lower W options as they end up being about the same price or simply much lower (350W-400W) and with brands I have not heard as much about. With power supplies quality is something you should look for right? If I go lower what brands and what amount of W should I look for?

...the board - Thats good to know. Will have another check through the features among the different once and see what I "need" and go for the one that suits me best (which seems to be the Pro version).

...the RAM - They land about 120 USD a piece which didnt seem that crazy but not been checking this stuff in a long time so might be wrong on my estimates and seems to be the lowest price I can get if I still go for the 8 GB I had planned to get (only other option was two sticks from Mushkin, which I have never heard of, that was just 3 USD cheaper). Know I could save some money here by lowering my standards a bit to 4 GB but kind of set my mind on it.

...video card - Really? This is one of the things I read the least about before posting as everyone and their grandmother recommends these cards and simply presumed that the latest version (HD4870X2) should simply be better. But this definatly gives me reason enough to look into. Just followed the guide sticky as a good poster and mentioned it as one should ;) Think I maybe should wait for its release still. Maybe not to get it any longer but to help push the prices down for the 4870 ;)

...the hard drives - The VelociRaptor looks tempting but my wallet/creditcard is afraid of that beast ;) Will stick to the RaptorX and 640AAKS. Might step down from the RaptorX to the non-X 150 version as they basicly cost the same on the site and from what I read just now the non-X is slightly less noicey. Considering skipping the Raptor alltogether to save even more money but it stays for now, want to spoil myself a little tiny bit sometimes ;) Think the Raptor still beats the 640AAKS when it comes to a lot of small files while the 640AAKS kicks the Raptor when it comes to much larger files. Is that correct?

...sticking with stocks - Sounds like a plan. Hopefully they will work just fine considering my very limited talents when it comes to tinkering with the hardware. Never been that handy but with some help from computersavy friends or simply reading a lot online I might be able to do some modification. I am actually going to get this computer assembled for me by the company I buy it from simply due to not feeling up for the challenge of doing it myself. The cost of it isnt all that bad. Here I probably could save me quite a bit of money by simply finding the stuff as cheap as possible in different shops and putting it together myself but that would probably cost me my patience and sanity and I kind of need those from time to time.

[gwai lo]

Ah, I didn't check the price difference. Well had I bothered (whoops) then I wouldn't have wasted your time there. Yeah you're good then.

RAM: If these are what you have, then I meant you can pick up sticks like these without losing much in...well anything.

Video card: If you want to get it, then sure..just letting you know that a 4850 will power that resolution, probably to the settings and FPS you want.

Hard drive: Well I personally wouldn't do a Raptor at all, I do imagine the a lot of small hits on the hard drive (thinking SQL like activity) will allow the Raptor to pull out ahead, but in most day to day tasks the AAKS would pretty much pull even if not ahead in a few.

[ThalSwe]

Dont worry about that at all. You are helping me heaps here and making me double check prices and information just does me good in the end. Its my computer so I should do the work, aye? ;)

Those are the sticks I had in mind, yes. Seems like you managed to see something I didnt tho. Those Kingston seems to be pretty much the same, but for a somewhat smaller price. As I dont know much about them (Kingston) I have to ask if their RAM is good "stuff"? I have heard enough about Corsair to trust the name but Kingston I have only heard of when it comes to USB sticks.

Did some reading up on this (learning a lot today) and seems like they are quite equal around that resolution and that the HD4870 shines above that. Looking like I will downsize things yet again. Slightly tempted to go for the HD4870 to know I have the extra "power" if I beef up the resolution/anti-alias etc but really doubting its worth the price increase from the HD4850 (130 USD).

Probably better to follow your first advice and go for the cheap option and when the time comes upgrade to meet the standards.

Been thinking it over back and forth and, for now, settled on leaving the Raptor(X) out of the equation. Could go for a second 640 GB drive and still save money from the "downsizing", quite a bit even.?

With all this cutting down on the price I can almost consider getting the G9 Mouse again;)) (but pretty stupid to have two of them, three of you count the "touchdisk" on my diNovo Edge).

[gwai lo]

Kingston was on their game during the DDR days, but they're not so big now. Their warranty is still lifetime, like everyone, so I don't imagine you running into trouble. There's a long list of decent RAM companies, most people are aware of a few of the companies. Everyone knows Corsair and OCZ, but there's also G.Skill, A-DATA, Mushkin, Kingston, Super Talent, Team Group, Crucial, Patriot, Buffalo, GeiL, PNY, PQI, etc

Yeah the thing with video cards and buying more than you need is that when that power does come around to be utilized (like if you were to step up to a 24" monitor), then we'll probably have newer cards. Video cards are pretty much the fastest depreciating components we have with refreshes and generations being rolled out pretty often, so in this department I'd advocate buying what you need now. If you need more power later then buy another video card later and sell yours off. Of course if you had a monitor upgrade planned in a few months, then I'd say go with the 4870.

As for the hard drive, I thought there were more reviews out...but I guess not. Here's how much you're stepping down. ;) Here's another little thing, just raw throughput here though.

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=10...mp;postcount=67

Your initial build was fine, just fine tuning. :) and trying to save you money.

[ThalSwe]

Seems like they have added some new stuff and/or prices where adjusted since now this "Corsair Value Select VS4GBKIT667D2 2x2048MB (tot. 4GB) DDR2 PC2-5300 667MHz CL5" turned up on the list at about the same price as those Kingston sticks. Tempted to pick the Corsair once as I prefer to stick with that brand (I know, a bit silly but still). Only thing I have not quite understood is the difference of 667MHz of the Corsair and the 800MHz on the Kingston sticks. You said in one of your previous posts that I'll be fine with either of the two MHz numbers but what difference does it make? Is it more related to overclocking?Maybe should just google this up but last time I did (a while ago) I wasnt quite able to make sense of the "explanations" I found (must have been to technical for me or simply badly worded). Hopefully anyone of you people here could clear it up for me.

Been looking at the P5Q-E instead of the P5Q Pro as my motherboard for the build. It wasnt much of a step up in price and with all the money I already saved it wont hardly be noticable anyways. Know that there are not much difference between the two but as I doubt I will change the motherboard in quite a while (would probably be among the last parts to be updated due to it being a bit to tricky, for me at least) I feel its more resonable to pick one thats even so slightly better. Dont quite see a reason to aim for the Deluxe as that would hurt my wallet a lot more.

No new monitor on the horizon so sticking to your advice and picking the HD4850 :)

Thats quite impressive really. Definatly going for the 2x 640AAKS instead which saves me a bunch of money and gets me a lot better GB/$ ratio.

Adding up the new total price puts me at about 1 800 USD + 148 USD for them to put it together, install and test it for me (will probably re-install or at least tweak it once I get it but think its worth the price for them to do the tricky bit for me). So seems like I saved almost 300 USD without going down that much in power/performance. Big thanks again gwai lo.

Now I'll just wait a short while for some of the items to come into stock and maybe for the price to drop slightly (saw that the Intel Core's just had a pricedrop) before I order it and then its just a matter of time (will still have to wait once I have pressed that order button but good things comes to those who wait, hopefully ;) )

Will be posting back if things changes before I order it and definatly once I get it.

[gwai lo]

Okay, clock speed is determined by this:

Front Side Bus ? Multiplier = Clock Speed

The FSB that is on the box is the quad pumped FSB, so it's effectively 1333 MHz, but really 333 MHz (divide by four...quad...get it?)

So dividing your rated clock speed by the FSB gets you the multiplier:

2.66 GHz = 2660 MHz ? 333 ≈ 8

8 ? 333 = 2664

To determine the rated frequency of RAM, divide the DDR2-xxx number by two, if you don't have that dividing the PC2-xxxx number by 8 will get you the DDR2-xxx number. So in this case, DDR2-667 is rated for 333 MHz. DDR2-800 is rated for...................yep 400 MHz.

If you can't tell already, all you need is RAM rated for 333 MHz, so DDR2-667 is enough for stock frequency. If you want to overclock the chips, you have to raise the FSB because all the chips (except for the Extreme Editions) have locked multipliers. Therefore, the only reason to get faster RAM is for overclocking.

400?8 = 3200 MHz

[ThalSwe]

Thanks for explaining it gwai lo.

[ThalSwe]

Ended up doing some modfications to the build (got a different motherboard and RAM due to what was in stock at the store I bought it at) and still ended up on a good price and have the parts at home. Will do a better update about the setup later but mainly making this post due to another change of plans.

It was previously decided by me to order it...built and ready but due to certain aspects it became a no longer possible solution so I now have to do it myself. Will learn a lot from it but sure it will take some time due to being rather new to this and generally being overcareful. So what I am looking for is advice and suggestions on building it myself.

If you know any good links to guides (picture or videobased) or just have general good advice on what to think about I would be most greatful.

[gwai lo]

http://www.mechbgon.com/ should help