How to Fix 'Heroes'

[loople]

I agree people shouldn't look too deeply into things... however there is a completely valid point in the article about Peter, Sylar and Hiro. If Hiro can stop time, reverse time etc why on earth did he have problems with the 'super speed girl'? It's just flawed at a very basic level. I don't like it when people eat an encyclopaedia then pick niggly faults in continuity etc, but this is a pretty obvious one.

[obiwong]

although I didn't originally realize it, this current one mirrors "Kingdom Come," a graphic novel about the proliferation of superpowered people causing Armageddon.

i'd say this is more of a "Days of Future Past"

there's a lot of X-Men influence in most of this series

[evo0o]

it's turning into a lost plot.

so many new beginnings and very little done to all the loose ends already open.

[SuperJediMedia]

Why couldn't this go into Official Hero thread? Is this really need for a separate thread?

I Agree with those that think Heroes is BETTER than Ever!

Some people known to Hate changes, doesn't mean the show itself sucks now! :|

[SuperJediMedia]

The Critics seem to be missing the point of the show, I think. Or, the show is TOO SMART for them to handle!!! :rolleyes:

1. Neuter Hiro, Sylar and Peter

Realistically, there's not much that these characters can't do. Which opens up a question any time one of them is on-screen. For instance, in the Oct. 6 episode, it makes little sense that Peter and Sylar had trouble with a strong guy, a speedster and a woman who can regenerate. Peter can stop time. Sylar can use telekinesis to hold them all in place. They could teleport out of the area.

Similarly, any mistake Hiro makes could hypothetically be fixed by going back in time.

Now that Sylar has Claire's power, he is, according to the show, unkillable.

Where's the fun in seeing those kinds of characters interact? Which brings me to:

Sylar is seemingly GOOD in the future, so he won't kill... Who said Sylar & Peter couldn't beat them? They could, but in the spirit of the moment, both just weren't cold-blood killers!

Peter nor Sylar was Owned by Claire and the gang, BTW.

Strong guy, and Speedster? Comon, at least get to know the character's NAMES! :|

2. Develop Characters and Play to Actors' Strengths

One of the strengths of the show as originally conceived was that it was as much about the individuals as it was about them having cool powers. Yet somewhere along the line, that's gone by the wayside some.

There haven't been many scenes this season, for example, with Nathan and any members of his actual family. Somewhere amid all this action, it would be nice if Nathan and Angela or Peter got together and discussed all of what they've been through. Just take Nathan: "I learned I can fly. I almost signed on to a plot that would leave New York City a smoking crater. I almost died. I miraculously healed. I lost my family. I gave up my life's ambition to be a representative. I almost died again. I got miraculously healed again. I miraculously got appointed to the Senate. I'm talking to the version of Linderman that apparently no one else can see. And now I've found someone who's an identical twin of a woman I've had a fling with."

By contrast, I'm sorry, but Hayden Panettiere can't play a tough, embittered girl to save her life.

That's Subjective. Acting is subjective! I thought their acting is OK, Not Oscar-worthy, but not bad!

Also, you don't want to make this show anymore Soap-operaish than it already is! Nathan's Family ISN'T important plot!

It may be important to you, which makes me curious if you watch a lot of Soap Opera? Slow Dramas? If you think Heroes is that kind.... Hell :no:

3. Idiot-Proof All Plots

Too often, I find myself asking, "Why would a reasonable person do this?"

For instance: Why would Mohinder inject himself with an untested serum when anything could go wrong? Particularly when he goes to some random dock to do it, instead of a controlled environment? The answer, of course, is to provide a convenient opportunity for random thugs to hassle him and then get taken down by his newfound Spider-man like powers. But there's no in-story reason.

Why would Future Peter shoot Nathan, rather than simply go back to some point in time prior to the big speech and explain to him, "If you out us superpowered people, bad things will happen"?

Why would he further go on to put Peter -- in all places -- in the body of a villain imprisoned in Level 5 and Parkman somewhere randomly in Africa? Obviously, the plot wants them to be there.

If someone were to try hard enough, you could "fanwank" an explanation for these and the various other elements of bizarre behavior on the show. But the point is that you shouldn't have to fanwank anything. The writers should not force you to actively suspend disbelief beyond certain basic concepts.

DID you even watch the show??? If you don't understand you might actually be the Idiot yourself!!! Why would Mohinder inject himself? He wanted to be a Hero, duh! Why Peter shoot Nathan, Watch the show, Dammit. It's explained in there! Future peter put now-peter in another person's body, obvious so nobody recognize him. DUH! DUH!! DUH!!! God, Are you Critics really THIS Dumb???! :|

4. Mix in Standalone Episodes

One of the problems with season-long arcs is that it can seem incredibly slow getting from point A to point B, and it asks a lot for a viewer to stick with it all the way.

Few shows pull them off well over the course of 24-episode seasons. Those that do generally have individual episodes that have beginnings, middles and ends of their own.

I think it would behoove "Heroes" to go that route from time to time. Instead of gradually building up the threat level about the season's Big Bad (the exploding man, the virus, the power-granting serum), have an episode that provides a little more immediate gratification.

As Maureen said, probably the best episode of "Heroes" was "Company Man," which looked at the evolution of H.R.G. Part of the reason that worked so well is that it was focused and delivered a complete package.

In fact, I would consider for next season going arc-less.

Guess different stuff appeals to different people. I love Continous storylines and sees NO problem with this at all!

I swear, Watch another show already. Heroes ISN'T for you!

5. Revisit Some Plots and Questions

I think the "Heroes" writers should rewatch the first two seasons of the show as objectively as they can and think of all the characters and ideas that have gone by the wayside. Just to name a few, we have lost Matt's wife and FBI partner, Peter's girlfriend Caitlin. We haven't delved into what the "S" symbol means or who exactly saved Sylar back at the end of Season 1 or what became of Matt's dad. There are probably dozens of others things that have been dropped unceremoniously.

Some of the reasons you just have to THINK with your Brain. Are American really that Stupid for writers to explain everthing? Though I have to say I miss Caitlin as well!

6. Separate the Wheat From the Chaff

It's a noble experiment having an ensemble show with a whole host of characters. But the fact is that too often "Heroes" doesn't juggle them very well.

Most of the time, I think the show would be better off if it dramatically reduced the roles of about half the characters. In particular, I would love to see less of Niki/Tracy and Mohinder.

At the same time, there needs to be the flexibility to increase the prominence of characters who become interesting. The Haitian and Angela Petrelli, for example, are much more interesting to watch than many of the headliners. H.R.G. grew from a secondary character to someone central to the show.

Another Stupid subjective issue. I think the show is doing pretty good so far with all these characters. No characters need to get less role, if their story is important to the central plot. And, Mohinder/Stacy's role Must be very important. The writers are not wasting time on them for Nothing!!!

7. Avoid Stereotypes

Call me PC, but it bugs me that the women on the show tend to be victims, insane or bitches or some combination of the above. It bothers me that the weakest characters on the show tend to be the minority ones (Hiro and Ando excepted).

Hey maybe you should Blame this on some of the fans for this instead of writers? There is a reason why it is! It's THE FANS who HATE Maya. Fans who don't care much about Monica. Fans who say Mohinder have NO power, so he sucks... I agree Minorities need to be better, but from fan comments, I can see WHY writers doesn't develop them further!

8. Explore the Moral and Social Dimension of People With Powers

It seemed like they were going to do this last season with the idea of Monica becoming St. Joan. Being able to read minds or run superfast or fly would bring with it a lot of temptations. Throw a few of them in the way of the characters.

Again, Blame the Core fans!

9. Bring Back Some of the Humor and Joy

There have been, it seems to me, relatively few laughs on the show of late. Few moments where someone exults like Hiro, "I did it!" or remarks like H.R.G. that something is cool. The whole purpose of the show, as Kring originally explained it, was to counteract some of the gloom, cynicism and doom that came with Sept. 11. I think it should go back to that purpose again.

Are you kidding me?

Hiro: Popcorn?

Daphne: ... Pikachu

Sylar: Eat your brain, Claire, that's Disgusting!

Adam: ... Japanese Nazi

Humor is still in there, VERY MUCH what's Your problem?!

Edited October 15, 2008 by JediXAngel

[Julius Caro]

did he say nazi? I understood nutsy or smething like that

[Phantom Limb]

5. Revisit Some Plots and Questions

I think the "Heroes" writers should rewatch the first two seasons of the show as objectively as they can and think of all the characters and ideas that have gone by the wayside. Just to name a few, we have lost Matt's wife and FBI partner, Peter's girlfriend Caitlin. We haven't delved into what the "S" symbol means or who exactly saved Sylar back at the end of Season 1 or what became of Matt's dad. There are probably dozens of others things that have been dropped unceremoniously.

I wish people would understand that just because a show has unanswered questions doesn't mean what's going unanswered is "dropped" or "written out".

It's not just this show, its a lot of shows critics say this.

I mean really, if that were true, Lost would of been canceled after 5 episodes.

[nonick]

did he say nazi? I understood nutsy or smething like that

nope, nazi! :rofl:

[Mathachew Veteran]

Good night Jedi... calm your nerves. You're being a tad overly defensive of the show, obviously you don't want those criticisms to be true... and for crying out loud, quit using so much bold, it indicates yelling, just like typing in all caps.

[Rappy Veteran]

Jedi been sniffing the sugar again :laugh:

[Lqv2015]

I've been saying this from the beginning. It's almost unwatchable for me now. Too confusing plot, plot holes, stupid decisions made by characters & "why the heck did/didn't you do this?" events. Hey, that's the stuff you get when you give characters certain powers. You can't expect the writers to write miracle scripts.

I've only seen episode 1 & 2 of season 3 so far & I just gave up trying to put everything together. Now I'll just turn my brain off & try to be entertain one way or another.

[|Rapture|]

The only way to fix it would be to cancel it. The first season was OK, but it has turned into garbage.

+1 it's a write-off, end it now. They had something good but they killed it with short sighted writing and a complete lack of imagination.

There is nothing clever or complex about the story, they just throw new lines in each episode and then write the show based on what feedback they get. This is a big problem with lots of shows, they should write the stories before they start filming.

[SuperJediMedia]

I doubt most of writers have 140+ IQ.

It's Hard to write a Complex show and Zero holes, then please everybody who are smart and catch every little inconsistencies!

I think, for the MOST part, it makes sense, and that's all it matters! Some holes here and there, AREN'T going to make this show suck!

Some of YOU viewers are TOO picky! And, it isn't just on Heroes.

Lost, Smallville, we sure have been down that same road before! :|

Edited October 15, 2008 by JediXAngel

[shakey_snake]

Every episode is like watching a manual on how to jump the shark.

[SuperJediMedia]

Good night Jedi... calm your nerves. You're being a tad overly defensive of the show, obviously you don't want those criticisms to be true... and for crying out loud, quit using so much bold, it indicates yelling, just like typing in all caps.

If you disagree with my points, argue those. Don't be Low by Personal attacks!!! :|

Jedi been sniffing the sugar again :laugh:

You trying to be funny?

[Mathachew Veteran]

Personal attacks? Since when is disagreeing with you (and repeatedly telling you to calm down) a personal attack? You went on an emotional rant and are the one who began doing personal attacks against the person who wrote the article (and apparently against us critics):

DUH! DUH!! DUH!!! God, Are you Critics really THIS Dumb???!

Some of the reasons you just have to THINK with your Brain.

I couldn't even finish reading your post because you are just all over the place. The issues brought up by both the article writer and yourself have been covered in the Heroes thread, so don't expect me to rebut your emotionally charged and wildly sloppy post.

[SuperJediMedia]

I DON'T need you or anybody else to tell me to calm down. I just need you to argue my points if you think I am wrong, but if you are so disrespectful to even do that, well...

*SIGH*

MOST of this critics' problem with the show is not a problem with the show being bad, the critics does NOT seem to get it, also want the show to be something else it's not. Like Heroes is not a Episode-by-Episode format show, it's not a show like Grey's Anatomy, 90210 that focus on social stuff more.

If there is anything this show need badly, it's Good Kick Ass Action, NOT what happened to Nathan's Ex-wife or Matt's Ex-wife. This isn't Desperative Housewives!!!

Edited October 15, 2008 by JediXAngel

[Samn9]

Action is dull and mindless without a good buildup and emotional investment in the characters.

[Mathachew Veteran]

Disrespectful? Do you have any idea what you're saying? First you say I insulted you, and now I'm disrespecting you? Get. a. grip. And fine, let's break down where your emotion and fascination are getting in the way of seeing the reality of the situation:

The Critics seem to be missing the point of the show, I think. Or, the show is TOO SMART for them to handle!!! :rolleyes:

There really hasn't been anything in season three that you can call smart, but go ahead, keep insulting us if it makes you feel any better.

Sylar is seemingly GOOD in the future, so he won't kill... Who said Sylar & Peter couldn't beat them? They could, but in the spirit of the moment, both just weren't cold-blood killers!

Peter nor Sylar was Owned by Claire and the gang, BTW.

Strong guy, and Speedster? Comon, at least get to know the character's NAMES! :|

Defending yourself doesn't mean allowing yourself to get hit and not fight back, nor does it mean you have to straight up kill them. Remember the bank robbery? Sylar didn't kill Jesse or Knox when he used telekinesis on them, which is the point: use at least one of your numerous abilities to stop them.

Also, again, you missed the point. He's emphasizing what abilities gave Peter and Sylar a challenge, even though it should've been a no contest from the start. Peter, Sylar, and Hiro can do just about anything, and yet the show's constant theme is that when things don't matter, they're in control, when it counts, they're not.

That's Subjective. Acting is subjective! I thought their acting is OK, Not Oscar-worthy, but not bad!

Also, you don't want to make this show anymore Soap-operaish than it already is! Nathan's Family ISN'T important plot!

It may be important to you, which makes me curious if you watch a lot of Soap Opera? Slow Dramas? If you think Heroes is that kind.... Hell :no:

Nathan's family is an important plot. They were involved in the first season and he was trying to better himself so that he could see his kids more. Now he hasn't given his wife (she left him, but nothing was ever mentioned that they got divorced), nor his kids, a second thought. When Nathan was shot, no one came to him, except future Peter. That's a very important aspect of the show and has been completely ignored in some of the most life changing experiences in Nathan's life. And I agree, Claire acting tough/bad just doesn't work. I preferred it when she was an emotional cheerleader trying to be normal. Heroes isn't just an action show, it's part drama as well. Drama doesn't mean soap opera, though there have been several moments where Heroes was more like a soap opera than a serious drama. A character's family is important, like the guy who created black holes. All he wanted was to be with his family; but wait, that's too mushy mushy now?

DID you even watch the show??? If you don't understand you might actually be the Idiot yourself!!! Why would Mohinder inject himself? He wanted to be a Hero, duh! Why Peter shoot Nathan, Watch the show, Dammit. It's explained in there! Future peter put now-peter in another person's body, obvious so nobody recognize him. DUH! DUH!! DUH!!! God, Are you Critics really THIS Dumb???! :|

Again with the insulting. Yes, why would Mohinder inject himself so soon after developing a serum? No proper, controlled, or secure procedures to make sure any side effects wouldn't get out of hand. He wanted to give himself powers, yes, that is clear, but he did it in such an irrational manner that seemingly contradicts who Mohinder was in the first two seasons. He's gone from ethical scientist to illogical explorer (all before the negative side effects of the serum).

And to repeat the article: why would Future Peter shoot Nathan, rather than simply go back to some point in time prior to the big speech and explain to him, "If you out us superpowered people, bad things will happen"? You didn't address it. We know why he shot Nathan (since it was the cause of the revelation), but we don't know why he couldn't simply go to the vault where they decided to go public, which seems more logical (Peter was there, so he would remember that instance in time).

Why put Peter in Jesse and not some random stranger? Why specifically in a villain that happens to escape? Why send Parkman specifically to Africa and not, say, level 5? "Obviously, the plot wants them to be there." I can't put it any better than that.

Guess different stuff appeals to different people. I love Continous storylines and sees NO problem with this at all!

I swear, Watch another show already. Heroes ISN'T for you!

You haven't rebutted his point in that one of the best episodes was Company Man, a stand-alone episode. I don't want to see Heroes move away from a serialized format, but the planning and story telling should've been on a grander scale like in Lost, Prison Break or Sarah Connor Chronicles, instead each volume will consist of a new catastrophic event and how they try to stop it. It's rinse and repeat, which so far isn't doing the show justice.

Some of the reasons you just have to THINK with your Brain. Are American really that Stupid for writers to explain everthing? Though I have to say I miss Caitlin as well!

That's a lame excuse, yeah, I said lame, and I'm not insulting you, so don't go Britney Spears fan on me and scream "PERSONAL ATTACKS!!!11". "We haven't explained it, but we want you to think what would have happened and accept it." Again: lame. It's a very valid point that they're dropping people or events for the sake of convenience for the plot. Matt's ex-wife was explained, but many things simply are not and should have some degree of an explanation.

Another Stupid subjective issue. I think the show is doing pretty good so far with all these characters. No characters need to get less role, if their story is important to the central plot. And, Mohinder/Stacy's role Must be very important. The writers are not wasting time on them for Nothing!!!

He's got a valid point here. So much focus has gone into Claire, Mohinder and any character Ali Larter plays. Just how many times do we need to see Claire go behind her parents back and then come crawling back to heal the wounds of division? This is volume three, and we've seen it three times so far. This volume is called Villains, so give me villains. I want to see why they're villains, why they are locked away, what they did to get themselves locked away, what makes them so dangerous, how they became to be so dangerous, see them raising hell, etc. A 30 second clip of stealing a Jeep doesn't cut it, and a less than spectacular bank robbery hasn't really done them much justice either. It seems that we're finally moving towards that point, however, with the events of the last episode.

Hey maybe you should Blame this on some of the fans for this instead of writers? There is a reason why it is! It's THE FANS who HATE Maya. Fans who don't care much about Monica. Fans who say Mohinder have NO power, so he sucks... I agree Minorities need to be better, but from fan comments, I can see WHY writers doesn't develop them further!

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up there, the fans didn't create the stereotypes, the writers did. The writers made them victims before the episodes were even filmed.

Again, Blame the Core fans!

And what exactly does that mean? The fan's don't control the show, and it's a realistic dilemma that should be explored further. Perhaps that's what made villains villains, but at this point, we don't know, they just are.

Are you kidding me?

Hiro: Popcorn?

Daphne: ... Pikachu

Sylar: Eat your brain, Claire, that's Disgusting!

Adam: ... Japanese Nazi

Humor is still in there, VERY MUCH what's Your problem?!

Humor is there, but not "VERY MUCH".

There, happy?

[SuperJediMedia]

OK, Thank You for reply to points instead of resorting to attacks, but let me digest it first then give you detailed response sometime Later.

Nevertheless, I Seriously think the writers are just listening to the fans!

Last season, we were all complaining that story is moving too slow! Too much Melodrama, now that the writers has listened to the fans, it's incredibly TOO fast, too much plot going on at once, people STILL complain.

Some people just Always complains, you can never make them happy no matter what you do!

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up there, the fans didn't create the stereotypes, the writers did. The writers made them victims before the episodes were even filmed.

I am NOT wrong here, sure the fans did help with Minorities on the show not getting enough Role.

Otherwise, you all go tell the writers you Love Monica, I am sure she will be back if fans want her back with better story!

Likewise, you tell the writers Maya is SO hot, you don't want her to die, you want her to live and have greater power. I am SURE the writers will be happy to.

I DO notice a lack of interest in her, and other Minorities from fans responses, so...

I think A LOT of what writers decided to do here in, is MOSTLY a response to season 2 fan feedbacks!

Edited October 15, 2008 by JediXAngel

[Mathachew Veteran]

For the last time, I haven't resorted to personal attacks, so quit crying that I have. You certainly know how to open the door for them...

And yes, the show moved slow last season, and the complaints about this season aren't because it's moving too fast, it's because things just don't add up, which has been pointed out numerous times in this thread and the season three thread.

[SuperJediMedia]

Now this...

Again with the insulting.

Insulting is toward the Critics, not you but seems you agree with that critics, therefore you are taking it Personal?

Yes, why would Mohinder inject himself so soon after developing a serum? No proper, controlled, or secure procedures to make sure any side effects wouldn't get out of hand. He wanted to give himself powers, yes, that is clear, but he did it in such an irrational manner that seemingly contradicts who Mohinder was in the first two seasons. He's gone from ethical scientist to illogical explorer (all before the negative side effects of the serum).

Nope.

Suresh was NEVER that level headed, in the first place. He maybe a smart scientist, but he is definitely not one who thinks very carefully and is slow for a scientist.

Comon, he is Slow catching on things... we have seen that both Season 1 and 2! It's nothing new based on his personality we've seen before!

I am sure when you rewatch the first two season, you will be reminded how stupid he was sometimes.

And to repeat the article: why would Future Peter shoot Nathan, rather than simply go back to some point in time prior to the big speech and explain to him, "If you out us superpowered people, bad things will happen"? You didn't address it. We know why he shot Nathan (since it was the cause of the revelation), but we don't know why he couldn't simply go to the vault where they decided to go public, which seems more logical (Peter was there, so he would remember that instance in time).

So, why wouldn't Terminator just go back to when Sarah Connor was a kid, and killed her before John was born?

Why put Peter in Jesse and not some random stranger? Why specifically in a villain that happens to escape? Why send Parkman specifically to Africa and not, say, level 5? "Obviously, the plot wants them to be there." I can't put it any better than that.

HOW would future peter knew the prisoners would escape?

Butterfy Effect, Remember? He changed things!

"Obviously, the plot wants them to be there."

That can definitely also apply to every Great show, movie there is - Terminator, Star Wars, Matrix... Lost ... 24 ... majority of Sci-Fi shows!

Edited October 15, 2008 by JediXAngel

[Julius Caro]

You know what.. I somehow agree that this show has its flaws. Even if now it seems to be awesome again, you can tell how they took a 180? that doesnt seem to make much sense.

I still love the show. And when you see people writing long ass posts bitching about it, you know it's time to CHILL !!

[SuperJediMedia]

What show doesn't have flaws? Or people complain about it?

Hell, even people complain about Lost too!

People Like DIFFERENT stuff, and that's clearly the Problem.

Some people like it slow, and some people prefer it action packed. So, no way the writers can Please Everyone with such differences!

You want Nathan's ex-wife, Matt's Ex-Wife?

FINE, let's write to the writers to ask them back, but Really...

Becareful what you Wish for!!!

Edited October 15, 2008 by JediXAngel

[Lqv2015]

The biggest problem is too many characters with too many crazy abilities. At least take away time travel. It causes too many paradoxes. Minimize the powers that the characters are able to use. Give them a weakness like kryptonite to Superman. Or a counter power that someone else has to be able to stop them. The writers are starting to get lazy. Season 1 was good. 2 started to suck. Now I gave up on making any sense on season 3.

What show doesn't have flaws? Or people complain about it?

Hell, even people complain about Lost too!

The problems people find with Lost is:

- Too many questions unanswered. How do we know they won't ever be answered?

- It's getting too sci-fi. Wasn't it sci-fi from the beginning with Smokie?

- It start to get confusing. Well if you can't keep your brain up to task, that doesn't make it a stupid show.

Unlike Heroes where they make stupid decisions or not make the right decision. While have the power if you're not going to use it to it's full potential. It all comes down to the power abilities. Writers gave them too much. Everything then would all be chaos & no story came come to light. Heroes plot is also confusing but it doesn't even try to make sense of anything.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Lqv2015