Could Neowin Produce a Good Linux Singleplayer Game?

[Tin Man]

not to mention you can always put in graphics now and change the textures later so that the game will look better and gradually improve the game and how it looks over time. there is no need to throw out the best work all at once. that why they invented patches.

Exactly! There incremental improvements are great!

[Ambroos]

I can do PR if anyone wants me to :p

[39 Thieves]

Since you guys are (apparently) taking this seriously...

If you or anyone could make an open-source game along the lines of EV: Nova, I swear to whatever diety you hold dear, that I would help in whatever way I possibly could.

Essentially open-ended, just you, in your ship, doing whatever you want to do, with an entire galaxy to do it in. Simple graphics, nice background story, easy to play, low system requirements. I put this forward for your consideration, since a free FPS/RPG will be judged against some pretty stiff competition.

[AudioDope]

why nto a game in which you all try to be as cool as me?

I reckon it would be a very hard game. :p

[39 Thieves]

why nto a game in which you all try to be as cool as me?

I reckon it would be a very hard game. :p

Nah, I beat that game when I was 12. Now 20 years later, retro games don't interest me much.

[Zickar]

I can help in teh storyline ... That's the only help I think I can be of but I'm really interested in helping out ... If you ever need help in storyline just tell me ... Heck, I wouldn't even wait for you to ask me I'll be posting a storyline ASAP

[ichi]

We're talking on a forum were a group of interested people are modifying an entire operating system to suit their needs and wants. Neowin has the talent, the question is can it be gear for this, and are people interested in it.

I'm sure there're lots of talented members here, it's just that I've seen lots of groups failing at making a game not because lack of talent but because either people eventually losing interest or their real life getting in the way.

There's a reason why you can find lots of OS multiplayer games but almost no single player ones.

That's why I suggested starting with a game you can get to a somehow playable state in about 6 months instead of aiming directly for a 2+ years project.

But anyway, good luck with whatever you decide. I will certainly be trying the game if/when it gets done.

[Admodieus]

I would definitely love to throw my skills behind the story/writing. I always enjoyed writing short stories when I was younger, even dabbled a bit in newspaper in high school. Before we start thinking about a plot and setting, however, we need to figure out the following:

• What type of game do we want to make? Shooter, adventure, RTS, etc.
  
• What is the hook(s) for trying the game? I don't think any of us want to make another run of the mill space marine FPS, so what should we try to do to make it stand out from the pack?
  
• What technologies (if any) do we want to take advantage of it? This could affect the art direction of the game, and thus the setting.
  

Once we have some of these figured out, I'd love to get to work crafting a universe, backstory, etc. for the game. If anybody is open to ideas, feel free to contact me and I'd be more than willing to share a couple I have.

[Tin Man]

I would definitely love to throw my skills behind the story/writing. I always enjoyed writing short stories when I was younger, even dabbled a bit in newspaper in high school. Before we start thinking about a plot and setting, however, we need to figure out the following:

• What type of game do we want to make? Shooter, adventure, RTS, etc.
  
• What is the hook(s) for trying the game? I don't think any of us want to make another run of the mill space marine FPS, so what should we try to do to make it stand out from the pack?
  
• What technologies (if any) do we want to take advantage of it? This could affect the art direction of the game, and thus the setting.
  

Once we have some of these figured out, I'd love to get to work crafting a universe, backstory, etc. for the game. If anybody is open to ideas, feel free to contact me and I'd be more than willing to share a couple I have.

You have excellent skills and we will definitely need them!

Right now here's what we have:

• We're going to attempt to cross a few genres: fps, adventure, and rps. This is to be accomplished with the following mechanisms, character development, a dependence on NPC's for mission accomplishments and of course action :)
  
• The "hook" is still being determined, so far we know we want nothing on rails...
  
• Art direction is going to come after the story. We need to create a good story, a character(s) people an empathize with, and then find what engine will allow us to tell it best. Right now, I'm of the mind that the Quake 3 engine is a bit too cartoony for what we're going to put together. Other suggestions are welcome
  

Ideas are always more than welcome! Feel free to PM me.

[rson451]

Some folks I know that are still in college are using Ogre for a game they are developing and the graphics they are putting out are quite impressive imo. If you are truly going to attempt this, I'd suggest you look into Ogre as an option.

[Tin Man]

Some folks I know that are still in college are using Ogre for a game they are developing and the graphics they are putting out are quite impressive imo. If you are truly going to attempt this, I'd suggest you look into Ogre as an option.

I've been reviewing the site most of the day and the effects look great, very realistic.

[Admodieus]

You have excellent skills and we will definitely need them!

Right now here's what we have:

• We're going to attempt to cross a few genres: fps, adventure, and rps. This is to be accomplished with the following mechanisms, character development, a dependence on NPC's for mission accomplishments and of course action :)
  
• The "hook" is still being determined, so far we know we want nothing on rails...
  
• Art direction is going to come after the story. We need to create a good story, a character(s) people an empathize with, and then find what engine will allow us to tell it best. Right now, I'm of the mind that the Quake 3 engine is a bit too cartoony for what we're going to put together. Other suggestions are welcome
  

Ideas are always more than welcome! Feel free to PM me.

I sent this in a PM to Tin Man last night, but here's one of the ideas that's been in my head for a bit:

Game takes place in a world where the United States/13 Colonies lost the Revolutionary War and are still a province of Great Britain in modern day. Naturally, this has implications throughout history, with all of the wars and other events that have transpired in the past 225 years. This allows us to play with modern art (IMO, there aren't enough realistic, modern day games - everything is past, fantasy, or future) but create our own unique universe that will capture a player's attention.

In fact, one way we could take it is that the game is set in an America prepping for a new revolution - in 2010. Another way is that since there was never a U.S., just a bigger Britain, Europe looks totally different today - with the breadbasket and manpower that is the States, England was able to extend its influence over France and even Germany, fueling hatred in those countries and making it one of the world's two superpowers, along with Russia.

We can set the player loose in the Americas, or perhaps just have the first act in the Americas before the player is recalled to the motherland for a war/other conflict. Given the hundreds of years of tension between Britain and the Americas as well as the rest of the world, which has come to resent Britain, you could easily craft a storyline of twists, intrigue, and moral uncertainty.

Thoughts?

[Zickar]

I sent this in a PM to Tin Man last night, but here's one of the ideas that's been in my head for a bit:

Game takes place in a world where the United States/13 Colonies lost the Revolutionary War and are still a province of Great Britain in modern day. Naturally, this has implications throughout history, with all of the wars and other events that have transpired in the past 225 years. This allows us to play with modern art (IMO, there aren't enough realistic, modern day games - everything is past, fantasy, or future) but create our own unique universe that will capture a player's attention.

In fact, one way we could take it is that the game is set in an America prepping for a new revolution - in 2010. Another way is that since there was never a U.S., just a bigger Britain, Europe looks totally different today - with the breadbasket and manpower that is the States, England was able to extend its influence over France and even Germany, fueling hatred in those countries and making it one of the world's two superpowers, along with Russia.

We can set the player loose in the Americas, or perhaps just have the first act in the Americas before the player is recalled to the motherland for a war/other conflict. Given the hundreds of years of tension between Britain and the Americas as well as the rest of the world, which has come to resent Britain, you could easily craft a storyline of twists, intrigue, and moral uncertainty.

Thoughts?

Very Unorthodox storyline and quite interesting , But what sort of game is it gonna be !! a Strategy game ?? a RPG ?? a first shooter ?? Cause to me it looks like it can be one of those Command and Conquer moments and it sounds very promising

Anyway here's my idea

Name: Zaki and the Airplane

Genre: Adventure Platform game (Sonic like in the way I see it)

Protagonist : ZAKI - a preteen , about eleven or twelve years old. While all the boys his age are having wet dreams about their teachers and just discovering their Bodies, Zaki is out there having erotic dreams of his own about an air plane .. a very special airplane . Once Zaki and his parents were travelling on a plane and all Zaki could think about in theis flight was how much he loved this plane, from the outside it even looked better and now all he can think about is that plane

Gameplay : Zaki runs from home to reunite with his beloved plane and in the meantime its your job to help him get there using any means necessary, Zaki has a friend of his that hides him at his house, His name is Kiko and he is about ten years old .... Kiko is the one always giving Zaki ideas of how to get to the plane, these ideas are dealt with throughout the game as missions that Zaki should pass. He should pass all the mission while staying in the look out for Cops looking for him to take him back to his folks place. After a few attempts and ideas to get into the airport fail Kiko finally comes up with an idea that might finally work : He meets a kid that has just moved to their school, His father is a retired pilot and Kiko tells Zaki that the father takes this kid (Romney) to the airport every weekend to look at his airplane (The father's) and if he can become friends with Romney he might get a chance to get into teh airport. From then onwards Zaki will be trying to become Romney's friend throughout numerous missions he will be passing ... He could run errands, Get him gifts, Beat up some kids for him, Pick out the perfect outfit for him, etc .... Think of it as a GTA style of missions

Bad Guys : Throughout the game Zaki will run across a bad guy who will try and stop him from getting to the airport, Zaki should out smart these bad guys or beat them up if possible or deal with them with anyway to overcome them, Some of these bad guys are His Science teacher That keeps telling him its unnatural for Planes and Humans to marry, Another Bad guy is a grown up that has fallen in love with teh same plane as Zaki and wants it all for himself, Another Bad guy is a bully from Zaki's school that keeps making fun of him when he knows he loves that plane, A Possible Bad Guy is God Himself who isn't really trying to keep Zaki from getting there but some of the things he does keeps Zaki from getting to the airport like Bad Weather or Traffic and everynow and then Zaki has to confront him, Zaki will ofcourse never kill God but he might beat him at a challenge or a game and thus get what he wants

WHAT DO YOU THINK ?? I Know that a young child as a protagonist isn't as appealing as a gangster from GTA but you never know !!!

[Tin Man]

Looks like we're at the plot selection time, with that here is another suggestion, psychological thriller:

I dont know. Do you really want to take the scri fi path? Is very worn out by now. I was thinking more along the lines of a psychological plot, someone reaching breaking point. A plot that develops freely, without cutscenes, a little like half-life (sans the sci fi of course).

I was thiking this because my opinion is that players can connect better to the plot if its about something it could happen to anyone at anytime at any place.

I will help regardless the plot, just wanted to express my opinion.

With a person thrust into a situation where he believes he is on the "good guys", but sees some "bad" things happening perhaps to a prisoner being held for interrogation.

That way it isn't stereotypical good guys that are 100% in the right, and bad guys that are 100% evil. The supposed "good guys" are doing some questionably unethical things, and the player will need to weigh out how far to go, and if he wants to switch and help the prisoner escape and perhaps expose some greater underlying nefarious plan (surely both 'sides' in this game have nefarious plans, and the game could be successfully completed either way). If more than just a "A or B" type of play could be done, and leave it more open to the player, even better.

About the plot, here I present some cliches I think we should avoid:

The character is the only one who can save the country, the continent, the world.

A man who seeks revenge without nothing to loose.

There is a complex conspiracy and our main character has been framed for a crime he did not commit.

The U.S. Goverment wants you to...

Now, I agree a game should be fun, have action, be coherent and not be boring. I was somewhat sketching a personality, I think its my proposition of the main character, is something like this:

"Its amazing how every event in life, even the most insignificant ones, adds up to guide us to an specific moment. If you change something, anything, then past that point wouldnt be the same at all, if that is not a proof that life has sense of humor I dont know what could be. However, we are not always in the mood for jokes, and life has the nasty habit of getting heavy the moment you turn your back, or get distracted or you are just in the wrong moment, at the wrong place"

And here is my main proposition: Game are always from the perspective of the "good" guy... always? You catch my meaning?

I agree 100% with avoiding those cliches.

I like where you are going with the character but if possible I would like to add to that description that he(or she?) will have a "flexible" set of morals and values this will be a discovery for both us and the character himself as he is put in increasingly sticky situations that push his morals and ethics to the limit. I know first hand that witnessing a murder of a loved one can bring a man to the brink of insanity and a thing that he once would have rather died then commit he will do without a second thought in th aftermath of a tragic accident. This double personality can also be included in gameplay if thought out properly.

A few questions.

Do we have a name for the protagonist?

Where is he from?

Occupation, sex, family status?

Looks like we have our direction, phenomenal ideas all smile.gif

Psychological thriller - this will give us depth, and a character thats interesting all by itself.

Now for a character, since I have access to several actors and actresses, I think we can create an "individual" and base the story around that. Think of it, no matter who the player is, they can play as a character similar to them.

Now family status should be media, as that is the target gamer market, we are going to have a character that reminds the player as much of themselves as we can get.

But we need a goal, survival, sanity, or just simply to make it home?

Thanks to: Numpad, Audioboxer, Green_Eye, markjensen, sanctified, Zickar for their contributions! What do you all think?

[Admodieus]

I think we could take an alternate history storyline and adapt it to either an RTS (obviously) or FPS/RPG with some psychological aspects, like a mix of Condemned/S.T.A.K.E.R. Think Fallout 3.

What you could have is somebody who comes from the Americas as an outsider to Europe and the whole tense/war situation over there. He initially is allied/recruited to help the motherland, but over time starts to doubt them as their moral priorities and decisions start to vary from his. Maybe have him on the run from both sides of the conflict at one point.

[Barney T. Administrators]

Topic moved here

[Tin Man]

I think we could take an alternate history storyline and adapt it to either an RTS (obviously) or FPS/RPG with some psychological aspects, like a mix of Condemned/S.T.A.K.E.R. Think Fallout 3.

What you could have is somebody who comes from the Americas as an outsider to Europe and the whole tense/war situation over there. He initially is allied/recruited to help the motherland, but over time starts to doubt them as their moral priorities and decisions start to vary from his. Maybe have him on the run from both sides of the conflict at one point.

This would defininately supply the engine for the moral conflict we need, but what would the goal be?

Also we have another potential theme:

I think Lebanon could make ground for some very good plots because everything here is volatile and everyone is potential bad guy

I don't know who said it or where but I Think someone suggested that the Protagonist be a photographer, I think its a cool idea.

This is what I could think of : The Photographer is on the sidewalk talking photos of a homeless man on the bench when a big envoy of Jeeps and Hummers pass by, they belong to the Lebanese PM so he takes some photos of that as well .. Just a couple of seconds later an Explosion occurs that has targeted the envoy and the PM is dead .. Now later one as the Photographer is looking at the pics he has taken he notices that one of the pictures shows a weird looking car and a funny looking person in teh drivers seat ... The Photographer with good intentions takes that photo to the authorities only to realize that this photo will Hurt many people and thus begins the game, a chase to run for his life from people who are trying to kill him and get his hand on the photos

The Government was trying to frame the Islamists and this pic prooves they have nothing to do with it so the Islamists knowing that help hide the Photographer until he can expose teh picture he has on National television ... THe game is basically Islamists shooting at Cops and SWAT Teams etc ... It basically is a game where you must get the photographer from one point to another

You will be the photographer, you will help the Islamists in their shooting and you will also do your best to hide and run, Sometimes that's all you'll have to do ...

Thanks goes out to Zickar for this contribution!

Progress thus far:

• We have an idea for the main character - an individual on the cusp of sanity
  
• We have a theme - a psychothriller
  
• Outside conflict is the driving force
  
• Now we have pin down the location, the era and how the game should progress
  
• Lastly, what goal should the main character be attempting to achieve?
  

Edited December 10, 2008 by Tin Man

[MR_Candyman]

I'm sorry, but I don't think a lot of you grasp just how much time and effort creating a big game takes. A big company will have 150+ people working on a game, all in the same building, working VERY LONG shifts. It still takes over a year to put out a working viable game. You guys would be bogged down by not being in the same building, sending stuff back and forth. You guys would be slow because of lack of people.

To make matters worse all I'm really seeing in this topic is what the game would be about, and a bunch of people willing to work on the storyline. A game needs graphics designers. It needs coders, it needs testers and debuggers, it needslots of blood, sweat, and tears, and lots and lots of time.

It can't be compared to modifying a linux distro to have a different theme and a specific set of packages. That can be done with one person in a reasonable amount of time. A game is an epic amount of work and I can tell you right away you'll have a lot of people lose interest and leave, and you'll have a lot of people saying "oh, I have a life now, I can't work on this". I'm sorry but it just can't happen. As stated, a little flash game or something is more than viable, but a full complex game like you guys are suggesting is not going to happen.

[Krome]

I'm sorry, but I don't think a lot of you grasp just how much time and effort creating a big game takes. A big company will have 150+ people working on a game, all in the same building, working VERY LONG shifts. It still takes over a year to put out a working viable game. You guys would be bogged down by not being in the same building, sending stuff back and forth. You guys would be slow because of lack of people.

To make matters worse all I'm really seeing in this topic is what the game would be about, and a bunch of people willing to work on the storyline. A game needs graphics designers. It needs coders, it needs testers and debuggers, it needslots of blood, sweat, and tears, and lots and lots of time.

It can't be compared to modifying a linux distro to have a different theme and a specific set of packages. That can be done with one person in a reasonable amount of time. A game is an epic amount of work and I can tell you right away you'll have a lot of people lose interest and leave, and you'll have a lot of people saying "oh, I have a life now, I can't work on this". I'm sorry but it just can't happen. As stated, a little flash game or something is more than viable, but a full complex game like you guys are suggesting is not going to happen.

This is why I suggest "Pong". :) kekeke

[HawkMan]

The only game I'm interested in helpign woudl be a cross platform (well linux/widnows at least, or just windows :p) Syndicate clone.

Add a new storyline, add a few new features, but mostly copy the gameplay and gamestyle from the original Syndicate/+ only in 3D, good 3D.

[Andre S. Veteran]

If you want to do anything that looks remotely like what you can find on shelves you need at least :

2 programmers

1 artist for visuals

1 artist for sounds

1 writer

1 project manager

You probably also need some common web space, like a sourceforge project; an SVN reposit; and lots of time (around 1 year at least ?).

I'm not into it because I'm not competent enough yet (greatest project I did on my own was a remake of Pac Man), and I'm not interested in developing for Linux. But I would recommend you keep you ambitions extremely conservative and focused. You'd probably be better off making a 2D game, it's lot less work both for the programmers and the artists.

[Tin Man]

I'm sorry, but I don't think a lot of you grasp just how much time and effort creating a big game takes. A big company will have 150+ people working on a game, all in the same building, working VERY LONG shifts. It still takes over a year to put out a working viable game. You guys would be bogged down by not being in the same building, sending stuff back and forth. You guys would be slow because of lack of people.

To make matters worse all I'm really seeing in this topic is what the game would be about, and a bunch of people willing to work on the storyline. A game needs graphics designers. It needs coders, it needs testers and debuggers, it needslots of blood, sweat, and tears, and lots and lots of time.

It can't be compared to modifying a linux distro to have a different theme and a specific set of packages. That can be done with one person in a reasonable amount of time. A game is an epic amount of work and I can tell you right away you'll have a lot of people lose interest and leave, and you'll have a lot of people saying "oh, I have a life now, I can't work on this". I'm sorry but it just can't happen. As stated, a little flash game or something is more than viable, but a full complex game like you guys are suggesting is not going to happen.

And we'll have timezone issues too.... :p

Yes, I agree it takes a lot of work and a lot of people, but that in and of itself is not a reason not to try it.

Also in our favor is that fact that we don't have to code the engine from scratch. Would you like to contribute? :)

[MR_Candyman]

ok, maybe I could put this in a bit more perspective: CCP, makers of EVE Online: "We‘re just reaching 230 people with a couple of hundred contractors and outsourcing partners."

and that's really not a hugely complex game when you really think about it.

Blizzard has over 2700 people, although only about 200 are developers (the small number does actually simplify things, but think of how bloody long everything takes to get developed)

And we'll have timezone issues too.... :p

Yes, I agree it takes a lot of work and a lot of people, but that in and of itself is not a reason not to try it.

Also in our favor is that fact that we don't have to code the engine from scratch. Would you like to contribute? :)

A lot of games are using other game engines and they still take forever. Just think of Duke Nukem Forever...

And no, I've had my share of game development, I don't want to go back to that life.

[Jimmy0]

I think your aiming a bit to high, if you actually want to complete a project rather than have it in a perpetual state of 'nothing', then I think you need to set your sights much lower.

[Tin Man]

ok, maybe I could put this in a bit more perspective: CCP, makers of EVE Online: "We?re just reaching 230 people with a couple of hundred contractors and outsourcing partners."

and that's really not a hugely complex game when you really think about it.

Blizzard has over 2700 people, although only about 200 are developers (the small number does actually simplify things, but think of how bloody long everything takes to get developed)

A lot of games are using other game engines and they still take forever. Just think of Duke Nukem Forever...

And no, I've had my share of game development, I don't want to go back to that life.

Eve and Wow are MMO's which by definition are huge by any measure, the goal here is something that large. Breathe, it's okay ma:):)

I recall that, Duke Nukem "Whenever" has changed engines at least once in it's development.

And that's okay, I appreciate your insight.