The SP2 Thread - Reloaded


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No offense, but that sounds like a terrible idea.

I think he has a point. IMO it would make Windows way more secure. Not going to make it to SP2 though.

separating Windows components isn't as easy as it sounds. That would take years, and Microsoft would likely only do that if required by the government.

By all accounts, MS is taking years to develop Longhorn. MS only said separating the components was impossible since they didn't want to lose more money during the anti-trust suits. Gates has said that more money/time will be spent on Longhorn than the Appollo space program and its one of the larger Engineering programs since.

Given the time, budget and scope of Longhorn, they have what it takes.

"Hahaha....if you don't like something, why use it? If you want something changed, change it yourself."

First of all you probably just glossed over this: "I PAID for the full version of Windows 2000 & the Windows XP PRO Upgrade." Speaking of BUSINESS have you ever heard of the term

"RETURN ON INVESTMENT"?

You probably also missed: " At the core of their Technology they have something that they could really work with and turn "Good" products into really GREAT & OUTSTANDING products. But that is NOT what they do ".

Also I would "Change it myself" - but Microsoft Windows is NOT OPEN SOURCE!!!! Not only that but if you what to do serious Application Development on top of the "Windows OS" - then you HAVE to also purchase a Microsoft Development Product/Compiler (i.e. $$Visual Studio$$). Then you get some code but NEVER the Windows SOURCE CODE ( for $80 you can buy Suse Linux & get EVERYTHING INCLUDED).

Did you read the story on how Microsoft reacted when some "Windows 2000" SOURCE CODE leaked onto the net - they threw a FIT & threatened those "Dirty Hacker Criminals" - like they weren't already sitting on Billions in Cash. God forbid that some people try to Fix Windows 2000 independently - Lord knows Microsoft won't really do it themselves like they are SUPPOSED TO - they can take their "Service Packs" and SHOVE IT!!!!

"they are a CORPORATION, and their FIRST responsibility as one is to bring the MOST profit in for their shareholders...It sounds callous, but welcome to the world in the year 2004..."

-> Ah yes I almost forgot about the Business aspect: But wait isn't a "Good Company" supposed to listen to their Customers Requests & Wished?

-> THIS MEANS WAR!!!!! :angry:

New info bar info. Apart from that I can't really see much.

Oh, explorer kills itself when you right click on shortcuts to exes or exes themselves.

It even kills if you shift+delete. Funny stuff

hooray, more "bugs" in the "service pack!!

hopefully,they got the "security center", and the internet "slow down" issues fixed with this release...

Nothing special, but the latest build (2111) has a new boot screen (well sort of). No more Home or Pro and Copyright been changed.

Got screenie from some other site.

I wonder whats up with that... maybe their going to get rid of Home and Pro and just have one workstation version of Windows XP :shifty:

First of all you probably just glossed over this: "I PAID for the full version of Windows 2000 & the Windows XP PRO Upgrade." Speaking of BUSINESS have you ever heard of the term

"RETURN ON INVESTMENT"?

So you hated Microsoft so much that after you bought Windows 2000, that you went out and bought the Win XP Upgrade. That'll show em. Doesn't sound like you really hate them, just more that you like to complain about anything. :yes:

I upgraded to Windows XP from Windows 2000 because Windows XP had the drivers that I needed to do Multi-media stuff (Particularly Audio & CD-R Burning drivers). Windows 2000 was stable but horrible with Multimedia - Microsoft addressed this in Win XP. Does anyone remember what "Windows" was like BEFORE 2000 & XP came out?

OK just for the sake of disclose - I run both Windows XP & LINUX on INTEL based hardware. I am of the opinion that as time moves forward - technology (This includes Hardware - Software & Networking) should steadily improve! I have been computing for a LONG TIME & in the beginning there was nothing you can do but by each component separately & BUILD your PC Yourself - the Driver thing was ALWAYS a big pain in the ass - but you just had to deal with it. It is now 2004 & the Technology has gotten to the point that you no longer need to deal with this - it should all be OPEN & AUTOMATIC.

I started on Wintel but now - at this point - I am getting ready to head towards APPLE - they have the right Idea if you ask me - Its all about INTEGRATION. It is really fustrasting when the Silicon Technology is Constanly Advancing - yet the Software Technology just comes out in peice-meal fashion - in long intervals - you never know wether it is worth it or not - wether it is really an upgrade or not (Again Windows ME is a perfect example is this)!

Microsoft can keep on pulling their "Dirty Tricks" based on their perceived IGNORANCE of the Community. I for one have had enough of it!!!! I don't want to keep on buying the Latest Versions of "Windows", "Office" & "Visual Studio" over & over again - with a "New Surprise" included every time!!!!

:p

I hope that you are not a Computer Science student my friend. "Windows" is a piece of SOFTWARE that comes on a disc. It is an IMPORTANT piece of software because it is an Operating System (or more precisely contains an OS KERNEL/CORE) along with "Other Software" - for example "Media Player" - also written by Microsoft that also comes on that disc but is not vital like the OS. Why is it important - because without it you can't "Boot up" the machine. The content of the disk - or the Software - is code written by Microsoft & then compiled by Microsoft - it is written specifically to work with "x86" based Hardware. The problem that we are now encountering is one of "Legacy".

I don't mind that Microsoft puts all of this software on One Disc - that is fine - most people don't build PCs - they just buy one straight from an OEM - it has an OS (Usually Windows) Pre-Installed.

Once again just because you have a machine that has the Windows OS installed on it doesn't mean that you can now only install Microsoft Applications on it - you can install other software from other corporations on that machine or even write your own Applications - if you have programming skills ;) . You don't particularly have to install Windows for that matter as other Companies make OS's (Granted Windows has more support than Linux - but APPLE & Microsoft are about equal in terms of Third Party Software Developers on their Platforms).

All I am asking Microsoft to do is separate the Core OS Kernel Component of Windows from their Applications like "Explorer" - it is OK to put it on the same disk but these components should be MODULAR - the User should have a choice in the matter. The reason WHY Microsoft is having so many problems in the realm of Security (And this is why I made my Suggestion Originally because SP2 is a major Security Overhaul - even though I give them grief Microsoft is indeed working on it) is because of this "Code Mingling". For example if you open up "Outlook Express" to write an e-mail have you noticed that the little "Messenger" icon pops up every time? What does "Messenger" have to do with "Outlook" (hint it uses that routine)? Did you know that "Messenger" has a HUGE HOLE in it that allows Hackers into your system leading to HAVOCK?!

Like you said - I can't make Microsoft listen to me - but I can only hope they do because "Windows" does have a lot of potential & can be a LOT BETTER that it is at this point (and I have been around since the DOS/Windows 3.1 days) - as a matter of fact Microsoft will probably get there soon - I hope! :whistle:

Oh About that Integration thing - I metioned Apple and then at that point started dreaming about their new POWERBOOKS. OS X is def a good example of a SOLID OS. This is because it is Unix-based & Open Source.

MAC OS X is specifically written for APPLE Hardware. Windows has to run on a WIDE RANGE of Hardware - it is challenging I never said that writing software was Easy!!!

Microzombies ... give up whilst you are ahead ... you are pullling people down (by that I mean insulting them) and then expecting them to agree with you ... basically they do not have to conform to your elitism ...

As you appear to be doing, we can all type big sentances and paragraphs, and maybe also highlight words in bold writing etc, does that make you better than most? I think not :(

All I can say at this time and date, is I am glad that not all computer users are not as blinkered as yourself, or the whole internet would collapse in a week.

BeLGaRaTh - my thoughts exactly. It's still your choice to use whatever software/OS you want. In my mind, it's nice of Microsoft to let third-party developers use their OS. Did some OS zen make them do that? I don't think so. Stop complaining to us and do something about it. I agree with you on some points, but I realize computers, and technology in general, are gifts. If I want something changed badly enough, I'll find a solution. Otherwise I'll live with it how it is.

Did you read the story on how Microsoft reacted when some "Windows 2000" SOURCE CODE leaked onto the net - they threw a FIT & threatened those "Dirty Hacker Criminals" - like they weren't already sitting on Billions in Cash. God forbid that some people try to Fix Windows 2000 independently - Lord knows Microsoft won't really do it themselves like they are SUPPOSED TO - they can take their "Service Packs" and SHOVE IT!!!!

Do you really think that the source code was stolen to improve Windows? No. It was stolen either (1) because somebody gets a kick out of doing things like that or (2) because somebody wants to figure out so-far unfound security holes in Windows to exploit. People don't steal things to help society. They steal things for their own sadistic interests. Also, will you please stop bolding, upper-casing, and putting quotes around everything? It makes the few good points you make really, really hard to read.

I started on Wintel but now - at this point - I am getting ready to head towards APPLE - they have the right Idea if you ask me - Its all about INTEGRATION. It is really fustrasting when the Silicon Technology is Constanly Advancing - yet the Software Technology just comes out in peice-meal fashion - in long intervals - you never know wether it is worth it or not - wether it is really an upgrade or not (Again Windows ME is a perfect example is this)!

Reading many of the posts you have made on this thread, you seem to be contradicting yourself with this paragraph. You believe wholeheartedly that integration in an OS is key, and that Apple is doing well by integrating as much as possible, and yet you then slam Microsoft for putting in "unnecessary" features? You seem to have the Microsoft-bashing bug, which means that you will probably find a way to rationalize away my logic, but the integration Apple might do (and has already done) won't be any better than Microsoft's. Actually, I find Microsoft's integrated features, such as IE, to be very convenient. Maybe I don't quite understand your point, but it seems if you're looking for integration, you should be loving Microsoft, which is striving to integrate as much as possible.

Also, Windows still has some driver problems precisely because it allows compatibility with so much hardware. You can either go the Apple route, where you restrict hardware and drive up prices but make absolutely sure that everything released for Mac OS works perfectly (or almost perfectly), or you can allow more competition, lower prices, and a wider variety, and sacrifice a little bit of overall stability. Frankly, I would rather solve a few problems than buy outrageously expensive hardware with a very small selection.

Anyway, maybe you could clarify about why you think Apple integration is good, while you feel that Microsoft integration is evil.

The Code LEAKED onto the INTERNET - It Happens all the time - its nobody's fault - just read elsewhere on this web site that the latest build of SP2 leaked out even though Microsoft didn't want to release it - not a big deal really. The Internet has a life of its own - its really hard it control it because it was built with

de-centralization in mind.

ZTrang - First of all MicroSOFT makes mostly SOFTWARE for Systems with MICRO-chips in them ( Keyboards & Mouses with Microsoft's name on it is Hardware - but not Silicon - Generic Keyboards & Mice work just as well).

Secondly I am not bashing Microsoft for "putting in unnecessary features". They could make any Application Software that they want that runs ON TOP of their OPERATING SYSTEM Software. They can even PUT IT ALL ON ONE DISC. I am just of the Opinion that when you are installing a OPERATING SYSTEM you should have the OPTION to install the rest of Microsoft's Software OR NOT!!! I just want Microsoft to be more open with what is "Windows" exactly - because they have abused this in the past - they like to keep it Murky & Cloudy.

Have you personally Installed different versions of WINDOWS as well as LINUX on System Hardware with no

OS pre-installed on it - then you will know EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!!! :D

Wow, first I thought you were just ignorant, now you're dumb. Stop it with the formatting...that's incredibly annoying as other people have pointed out.

You must be one of those people who doesn't read the tech news before he responds. "It happens all the time"...as in code leaking? eh...no, get it right - the W2K and NT4 code was leaked - that's it - ever. Other software (from MS) has been leaked, but never before the source code.

You seem to forget that it is Microsoft's goal to make money. That is number one. Next they try to please their customers, but only after making a larger profit. Oh yeah, so they're gonna remove stuff from Windows (like, for example, WMP) that draws more customers to its products. That makes no sense in a business world. BTW, you can always remove the parts of Windows that you don't want (some even before the installation), or at least remove access to them. Heck, why not just delete the files if you're so ****ed with them? Or better yet, just don't use the programs! Jeez. I bet 10 years ago you were complaining that Windows didn't have enough features to be worth buying. Now you think there's too many.

All to vote MicroZombies off the neowin island?

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    • Remeber this decade, when the free internet died... tell your grand kids about this, record there reaction and post it on InstaTwitBook.com
    • UK nudity blockers are a looming privacy disaster, we must be able to see the source code by Paul Hill Image via Pexels The UK government, just like many state governments in the US and national governments around the world, has begun going on a bit of a power trip when it comes to digital safety. The major step taken so far is the introduction of the Online Safety Act, which requires users to prove their age to access adult websites (it includes more than this, too). Now, UK PM Keir Starmer is calling on Apple and Google, and presumably other mobile OS makers, to scan phones for explicit images to protect children. This potentially mandatory on-device scanning by vendor-controlled software will create unacceptable harms to individual freedoms and transparency, and introduce massive surveillance risks. In a statement on June 8, the Prime Minister stated that big tech companies, such as Apple and Google, must add features to their platforms, such as iOS and Android, that will detect and block sexually explicit or nude images involving under-18s on phones or tablets. Adults who want to take or send nudes would be required to hand over some form of identification to stop their phone from blocking these pictures, creating unnecessary privacy risks. According to the government, it wants to see these measures implemented within three months; otherwise, the government will introduce legislation to force them to introduce such technology. The legislation will include fines for companies and maybe even criminal liability for tech bosses who do not comply with the measures. In its announcement, the government said that stopping users from taking, sending, or receiving nudes without verifying their age is technically feasible, and pointed to a British firm called SafeToNet, which has made proprietary, closed-source, uninstallable software called HarmBlock and is actively selling a device with it enabled and is working with other OEMs. The fact that this software is closed source is a huge problem because it’s a black box; you do not know what it is doing on your device. The fact that it is unremovable is also a problem because you lose control of a phone that you own. Laughably, the government, just before highlighting SafeToNet, says that companies must introduce such measures “without threatening privacy or collecting any data.” It then says over-18s will still be able to view adult content by providing proof of age… Which sounds to me like data collection. SafeToNet makes some debatable claims about HarmBlock The government’s example software, HarmBlock, is a hugely alarming choice to espouse the virtues of this type of software. SafeToNet claims that HarmBlock is “ethically developed,” but this is the opposite of the truth. This black box software puts digital handcuffs on you if it’s installed in your device, taking away your freedom to control what software runs on your device, as it cannot be removed. It is not even free software, so we cannot inspect the source code to see what it is doing. For all we know, it could be acting maliciously. While that’s unlikely, we can’t verify that it’s not doing that. When Google and Apple do inevitably integrate these features on devices in the UK, they are very likely to be closed-source binaries, which will also be non-auditable. They will also have identity services built into them, which will require at least temporary collection of sensitive identity documents to verify your age. One saving grace for Android users is that this nudity blocker will very likely be implemented within the Google Play infrastructure that’s deeply tied into commercial Android devices. However, anyone with enough determination to throw out Google apps from their phone by flashing a custom ROM could find they regain control over their phone again without these digital handcuffs. Obviously, this is only how I expect Google to implement the feature; if it bakes it into the open-source Android somehow, that would be bad news for anyone looking to escape it. Outside of stripping mobile phone users of their freedom and sovereignty over their devices, these proprietary on-device machine learning or hash-matching solutions cannot be independently audited. This means that hackers could potentially exploit them because security researchers can’t investigate the code, and they could overstep their intended use case and collect even more user data without anybody knowing. We also wouldn’t know if the code is prone to detecting false positives or biased classification, because we can’t see the code. In the government’s announcement, contributing comments from the Internet Watch Foundation keep talking about “on-device protections” as if to say that users don’t need to worry about server-side processing; however, this is misleading, as data could flow from devices for the purpose of updates, remote model changes, telemetry, or server-side matching. We’ve also seen with the Online Safety Act that the government is never content with the laws it introduces; it always wants to expand the controls. If this scanning functionality arrives on devices, it might only block nudes initially, but later governments could pressure vendors for expanded access or use mandated features for other surveillance aims. The introduction of on-device scanners opens the door to massive risks in the future. Once nude blocking becomes normalized, regulators like Ofcom or politicians themselves could push for more controls over people’s devices. Very possible candidates for blocking include hate speech, misinformation, or undesirable political content. Also, there is a chance that once Apple and Google have developed this software, they might attempt to reuse the infrastructure for commercial or foreign requests, putting customers in greater danger. Just the UK's demand for this sets a precedent. What if a dictatorship decides to spy on activists by demanding that Google or Apple implement similar controls? Another concern with this scanning is that it adds compliance costs for businesses looking to get into the mobile operating system space. While Google and Apple dominate the space right now, there are lots of smaller companies creating mobile operating systems too, including community projects with very shallow pockets. How are these smaller competitors supposed to implement sophisticated nudity detectors? Simply put, they can’t. Then the government goes after them, causes them to shut down, and Google and Apple have less competition. Image via Aurora Store For us users who value sovereignty over our technology, this development will force us to seek freedom-respecting alternatives. The simplest path forward will likely be to install a custom ROM on an Android device; however, kicking Google off the phone with its black box nudity blocker could also make it harder to access apps such as banking apps, which tend to need you to pass Google's integrity checks. Thankfully, Google Play Store apps can still be obtained by storefronts such as the Aurora Store, but it just adds to the friction. To be fair to those pushing this measure to protect children, I think it will be reasonably effective, but people will still try to find ways around it, just as they’ve done with age gates on adult websites introduced under the Online Safety Act. In the effort to find circumvention methods, it could lead users to join riskier platforms that introduce new dangers. This effort also diverts resources from proven interventions such as law enforcement cooperation, targeted investigations, education, and support services to broad technical controls that have uncertain effectiveness (due to their newness). If the government is set on introducing such tools, then there ought to be safeguards in place. Any mandated code should be released as free software so that it can be audited, and the binaries should be reproducible builds so that the public knows nothing has been tampered with in the code used to create the binaries shipped out. Ideally, these tools should also be voluntary, opt-in, and even community-run. This would also allow people to have full control over their hardware while allowing parents to flip a switch to turn on these protections for children, with the knowledge that the code being run is doing exactly what it says on the tin, and nothing nefarious, like a black box solution could be doing. The government should also have a narrow legal scope where this technology stays with blocking nudes and not spreading to blocking political opinions, hate speech, and so on. Ideally, any implementation should avoid identity-linked age verification to keep user data safe, and matching should be done locally with no server telemetry to ensure it is truly on-device. While I do understand that stakeholders such as parents want to keep children safe, the potential for abuse with this type of software is colossal. It would entrench black-box surveillance and take away our freedom to use our devices as we want. 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