How do I format an external USB harddrive into two partitions?

[jebus197]

Hi, I have an external 300GB harddrive. For reason of back up I want to partition half of this as a MAC OSX HFS partition and leave the other half as NTFS.

To be clear one half is already formatted as NTFS and contains al of my vital Windows files and I cannot afford to lose this. I have resized this partition so that I can make room to do a back up of my Mac files. The remainder of the space is unallocated and is listed as free space.

I tried using disk utility to format this remaining free space as Mac HFS Plus, but it will not allow me to do this. Instead the only option it presents me with is to format the entire disk completely. I can tell Disk utility to create two new partitions on the drive - but I cannot tell it to selectively create and format the remaining space as Mac OSX HFS plus. (Or anything else for that matter).

So long as I'm willing to to allow Disk Utility to destroy all of my data (which I'm not) I can partition the drive in any way I want. But it will not allow me to retain my current NTFS partition on the drive and to simply reformat the remaining free space as HFS Plus.

So how do I do this without destroying my data?

Thanks!

Edited April 25, 2009 by jebus197

[jebus197]

The quick answer is there doesn't appear to be a way to do this. It can be done with 3rd party tools (which cost a small King's ransom), or with free non-native tools such as Parted Magic, or Gparted Live CD - or there are some vague and obscure hacks that involve boot camp and another that involves the CLI - or there are a number of tools for Windows that can do this too... But there is no native easy to use OS X GUI tool that will allow you to non-destructively resize/repartition and/or format external hard disks in this way.

Of course I would be happy if I could be proved wrong.

It seems rather a large omission in my eyes...

[VMIT]

Get a utility to format it FAT32 and then let the Mac OS to continue further? Best guess here. Sorry.

[jebus197]

You can do it - but in a non intuitive way, by following this guide here: http://lifehacker.com/338574/install-leopard-with-your-ipod

It doesn't matter if it's a iPod, or external drive or whatever.

[jebus197]

To be clear though, it is still a bit of a hack - as there is still no easy (or free) way to non-destructively repartition from within OS X.

You can do it from the CLI (although this is currently unsupported), but that rather defeats the purpose of OS X, in that it is supposed to be stupefyingly easy and simple to use.

[Boz]

@jebus197

You don't need any apps really.. Windows Disk Management utility is great, you are just missing a step.

Here's what you need to do..

1. Vista -> Disk Management -> Shrink the partition to the maximum you can so it's close to the sizes you want (you already did this right?)

2. While still in Disk Management , right click the on the Unallocated partition you have now that disc (you have NTFS and unallocated partitions right?). Right click on that unallocated volume and click on New Simple Volume

3. Format it as NTFS as well right after it asks you to allocate the remaining space to it.

4. Boot into OSX and go to Disk Utility

5. You will now see both partitions on that disk in the Disk Util. and you can mark the empty one that doesn't contain your data already on that drive

6. Go with ERASE (only on that other partition not the whole disk) and Disk Utility will ask you how you want to erase it (as HFS, HFS-J, FAT, NTFS, NTFS Uncompressed)

7. Select HFS-J and hit APPLY

8. Voila now you have NTFS and HFS+J partitions

[Southern Patriot]

  jebus197 said:

You can do it from the CLI (although this is currently unsupported), but that rather defeats the purpose of OS X, in that it is supposed to be stupefyingly easy and simple to use.

That's part of the beauty of OS X. Most things ARE extremely easy to do. For those that need more advanced functions, there is a complete UNIX command line available.

[Boz]

  roadwarrior said:

That's part of the beauty of OS X. Most things ARE extremely easy to do. For those that need more advanced functions, there is a complete UNIX command line available.

Part of the beauty with WIndows too.. you have PowerShell with full command line available and Disk Management tool is pretty nifty too it can do whatever. Nothing really special about OSX, just different set of commands.

[jebus197]

In Windows simple disk management was something I just learned to take for granted. Palming off the lack of this in OS X by saying 'it isn't an omission, it's a feature', just does not wash with me at this point in time, especially after spending the last 17 hours trying to figure out a way to do it - and also to find a backup and restore tool that would allow me to individually choose what I wanted to keep and what I didn't. OS X isn't special. Granted it doesn't get viruses - but like a lot of Unix/Linux type desktop environments, it does go wrong, it's subject to errors and requires regular maintenance. (Such as repairing disk permissions after large updates and software installs etc). It is also subject to slow downs and to becoming over bloated over time. In the course of my reading I have come across many people regularly doing back-ups and restores - and the situation in general in his regard seems at least comparable to that of Windows.

In my own case, after much research and much trial and abject failure to repair the fault, I was forced to do this also, as for no good reason I found I was no longer able to right click and obtain any options for the icons on my dock.

I like OS X, don't get me wrong. But in comparison to Windows 7, I think it does kind of look old and tired now. People here have extolled the virtues of expose' and spaces to me. However this does not change the fact that they are largely hacks in an OS which previous to their inclusion had no really effective means of achieving efficient window management. Again don't misread me. They work pretty OK. But they are often quit buggy and annoying. Like when I'm typing and for no good reason (even when my mouse isn't near a hot corner) expose'/spaces will suddenly and inexplicably activate themselves. It doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough to be annoying. It is also equally frustrating on those many occasions they activate when you do accidentally stray over a hot corner. Linux and Compiz Fusion suffer from similar defects. Good in theory, but in the end they are largely hacks/ad-ons that hinder efficiency.

I despise the way Windows is so prone to virus's. That will never change. But if you are looking for a way to do window management efficiently, I don't think OS X comes anywhere nearly as close. Even something like simple nested Windows - which seems to have obvious benefits, is something OS X refuses to do, simply in it's strive to 'be different.' In Windows navigating to any open window behind a window is a breeze, purely due to this nesting feature, where all windows are of equal size and are stacked either above below or to the side of each other. Now also in Windows 7 you have the preview pane which takes the power of window management to a whole other level. Windows 7 literally beasts OS X in this regard. Moreover it is no simple hack or afterthought add-on, it's an integral part of the OS itself that has been built in from the ground up. And you can tell this from it's overall feel, responsiveness and tight integration with all the other aspects of the OS.

I despise Microsoft as much as I dislike many huge corporations (and Apple is no exception in this), I hate that Windows is always being attacked and targeted by viruses and spyware vendors; but having lived with OS X for he last two weeks, I can only say I have no idea what all the fuss is about and what it is hat Mac users feel makes them so much better than everyone else. I have seen bugs a plenty, gui elements that don't work as advertised, an often nonsensical adherence to the paradigm of 'thinking different' and being different, just s you don't have to be like the other guy - even when what the other guy does works and makes perfect sense. And now I have had the pleasure of my first OS X reinstall, for reason over which I had no input and no control at all.

OS X may be many things - and I do very much admire the Unix underpinnings - but it is hardly the nirvana of computing or design that many of the Apple faithful would have you believe.

PS

The CLI way of non-destructively resizing and partitioning your hard drive is experimental (or so he post I read about it from said) and comes with several caveats. The most alarming of which was that partitioning your hard drive in this way might result in serious data loss, which is why I attempted to find a safer way to do it. In the end I had to boot into Windows first, shrink the volume and then boot into OS X, and use the above cheat method to achieve my goal. So it seems thus far my OS X install has had at least one hand up from Windows.

[markwolfe Veteran]

^^^ Unix-type systems slow down over time?

Yeah, I have noticed my Linux registry filling up with crud and slowing down my boot process until I get a BSOD.

[jebus197]

They do. Well desktop Unix environments do. Servers not so much. It has a lot to do with users filing up their hard disks with crud over time - orphaned scripts, files from installed and uninstalled applications and so on. But I have used Linux long enough to know this is true too - and I have seen it go wrong on many occasions (particularly after installing major updates etc) also, often warranting a full reinstall, or multiple hours of repair work when this happens. Like I said though servers not so much, as these crunch on year after year without requiring too much alteration or change.

I am by no means praising Windows. It is prone to viruses and does also get slowed down over time. (Although stability is hardly an issue as I have never experienced a BSD in over the last 3 years - and even before this when I did I'm convinced it was down to cheap poorly made hardware). XP put much of he bad old days of Windows 98 to bed in terms of stability, Vista (although hardly anybody liked it) built considerably on this - and if Windows 7 is anything to go by so far, it's probably about as rock solid as it's possible to be. I mean no doubt it will end up getting hacked by viruses, spyware etc - which may be enough on it's own to dissuade me from relying on it as my only OS - but snipes about the stability in Windows n general are really so last century.

The only point I'm making is there's no such thing as a perfect OS and Windows, Linux, OS X or whatever else currently exists today certainly aren't it.

[.Neo]

  jebus197 said:

. I have seen bugs a plenty, gui elements that don't work as advertised, an often nonsensical adherence to the paradigm of 'thinking different' and being different, just s you don't have to be like the other guy - even when what the other guy does works and makes perfect sense.

That remembers me of Microsoft's Expos? implementation "Flip 3D".

[markwolfe Veteran]

  jebus197 said:

They do. Well desktop Unix environments do. Servers not so much. It has a lot to do with users filing up their hard disks with crud over time - orphaned scripts, files from installed and uninstalled applications and so on.

...

BS

Quite frankly, I can put a million files all over my drive, and Linux will still perform just fine. No slowdowns. It doesn't matter if the space that is skipped as it seeks the beginning of a file is blank and empty, or if it is filled with files. It is skipped, right? ;)

  jebus197 said:

...

The only point I'm making is there's no such thing as a perfect OS and Windows, Linux, OS X or whatever else currently exists today certainly aren't it.

If that were your "only point", then I would agree with you.

But you made a bunch of extra points, some of which were just nonsense.

[jebus197]

Don't know if it was anything to do with expose'. I think it was just a nod to all of the fancy window effects fad that was going on at the time in the Linux community and maybe to a lesser extent in OS X too. But it was never much of one. No one I know ever used it. Mainly they never used it because they never needed it. After viewing it for about 30 seconds, people tended to just forget about it and move on with doing things as they always had anyway. In fact it was such a non-feature that MS have now removed it from Windows 7. There is just no requirement for it; whereas I suspect it might be almost impossible to work without spaces and expose' on OS X.

[markwolfe Veteran]

^^^ Ugh. I really dislike 3D effects, too.

[jebus197]

  markjensen said:

BS

Quite frankly, I can put a million files all over my drive, and Linux will still perform just fine. No slowdowns. It doesn't matter if the space that is skipped as it seeks the beginning of a file is blank and empty, or if it is filled with files. It is skipped, right? ;)

If that were your "only point", then I would agree with you.

But you made a bunch of extra points, some of which were just nonsense.

Oh come on man... I have had as many Linux installs as you have probably had hot dinners. Are you seriously saying that a year or two year old heavily used and updated with lots of user software Linux desktop never slows and can't become sluggish and bloated? Because if you are, I would sure like some of whatever it is you must be on.

You can beat it by keeping the system slim - and only down to a bare minimum of what you might need - and/or or by using a very lightweight window manager - but that's equally true of any system.

If you did that with Windows or OS X, no doubt they would bot brutally fast and remain 100% stable for almost all of the time too.

[markwolfe Veteran]

  jebus197 said:

Oh come on man... I have had as many Linux installs as you have probably had hot dinners. Are you seriously saying that a year or two year old heavily used and updated with lots of user software Linux desktop never slows and can't become sluggish and bloated? Because if you are, I would sure like some of whatever it is you must be on.

You can beat it by keeping the system slim - and only down to a bare minimum of what you might need - and/or or by using a very lightweight window manager - but that's equally true of any system.

If you did that with Windows or OS X, no doubt they would bot brutally fast and remain 100% stable for almost all of the time too.

I have a PC used heavily over a year. It is my daily PC, and I am constantly installing apps and removing them as I test things out for others here in the forums.

There is no registry that has grown with entries for all these items that must be parsed by the OS. The package manager does track the install, and then removes the entry when I remove the app. But it does not grow and grow. My system still runs as brand new. Even after two online upgrades through ubuntu 8.04 to 8.10 and again an upgrade through the distro's package management system to 9.04. The worst-case for upgrades, so many people say, and no cruft buildup.

You may have had a lot of Linux installs, but you seem to not understand how they were working very well.

[jebus197]

Like I said, give me some of what you have then as that's probably what I need. If you are using a slim window manager and a slim kernel and a fast system then yeah, fair enough. But that's not how most folks work. Anyway enjoy it. One day, sooner or later it'll go wrong.

Anyhoo, I didn't write any of this to get into a debate with Linux Guru (since I know frm my past dealings with you Mark that that's what you are), who attests with almost religious zeal to the relative perfection of their system etc.

This is after all an OS X thread and not a Linux thread. I was just pis*ed after having had to spend 17 hours researching how to do something that seemed like a really simple task, only to find out in the end that I needed an entirely different OS to be able to do it.

I think after all of that time and effort I have something of a right to feel disgruntled.

[markwolfe Veteran]

  jebus197 said:

... who attests with almost religious zeal to the relative perfection of their system etc.

I call your bluff.

[giga Veteran]

Non-destructive resizing in Disk Utility is only possible through disks formatted with a GUID Partition Table (GPT). I'm assuming your external was formatted as MBR.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2374

[jebus197]

You can still do it in Windows though. So it's not like it's impossible to do. You resize and format in Windows and then erase and and format is OS X. No real reason to omit it.

[Binary]

  jebus197 said:

You can still do it in Windows though. So it's not like it's impossible to do. You resize and format in Windows and then erase and and format is OS X. No real reason to omit it.

It was an NTFS partition made with windows. OS X only reads NFTS by default, so it wouldn't know how to deal with moving the partition data without destroying the MBR. Just like I'm sure windows can't natively resize an hfs partition without affecting the boot sector. If you installed the paragon NTFS driver, disk utility may have been able to do it, but don't quote me on that.

[jebus197]

Thanks! But this was sorted a little while ago by using Windows disk management to resize and create two partitions on the disk. I then used disk utility to erase and format the second partition as HFS+. (See above).

The issue is not can OS X resize NTFS partitions, it's that it can't create a HFS+ partition on a disk where half of it is NTFS and the other half is free space. Strictly speaking you can't - but you can erase an existing partition and reformat this in OS X native format.

[Binary]

  jebus197 said:

Thanks! But this was sorted a little while ago by using Windows disk management to resize and create two partitions on the disk. I then used disk utility to erase and format the second partition as HFS+. (See above).

The issue is not can OS X resize NTFS partitions, it's that it can't create a HFS+ partition on a disk where half of it is NTFS and the other half is free space. Strictly speaking you can't - but you can erase an existing partition and reformat this in OS X native format.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure that creating a partition on a Disk with an existing partition, still requires the shifting of the existing FS'.

That existing FS was NTFS and OS X could not manipulate the NTFS data (including the MBR) which is why it would only let you erase the whole disk.

Glad you solved the problem.

[Binary]

  jebus197 said:

Like when I'm typing and for no good reason (even when my mouse isn't near a hot corner) expose'/spaces will suddenly and inexplicably activate themselves. It doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough to be annoying. It is also equally frustrating on those many occasions they activate when you do accidentally stray over a hot corner. Linux and Compiz Fusion suffer from similar defects. Good in theory, but in the end they are largely hacks/ad-ons that hinder efficiency.

I know you say when you're typing they activate, but perhaps you have one of your mouse buttons linked to an expose shortcut?

Check in system prefs just in case. Expose nor Spaces activate themselves suddenly without action on my Mac, nor any other mac I've seen. :huh:

By the sounds of all the 'eractic' behavior you've been seeing, perhaps some system files are corrupted.

I suggest you do a full re-install of leopard from scratch, and if these anomalies continue, maybe you've got a faulty/corrupted HD, and/or other hardware.