Questions about i7 platform

[Boz]

So I'm building a beast again. this time i7. This time around though, I'm not going make the same mistake and shell out $1000+ for a CPU that will be obsolete in 6-10 months and performance gain is like 5-10%. So I went with i7 940.

Here's what I wanted to ask. i7 platform has a lot of bugs and compatibility issues among manufacturers, so I'm trying to lessen my pain with picking up components that work. So those of you who made the builds and have it rock solid with no problems, please feel free to jump in with advices.

What I'm getting:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819115201

• Intel Core i7 940 Nehalem 2.93GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601940 - Retail
  
• ASUS P6T LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (I really didn't see the point of Deluxe)
  
• 12gb of ram - 2x OCZ Platinum 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3P1600LV6GK - Retail
  
• 2x Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000HLFS 300GB 10000 RPM
  
• Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31500341AS 1.5TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb
  
• 2x EVGA GeForce GTX 275 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16
  
• Antec Nine Hundred Two Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
  
• SILVERSTONE ST1000 1000W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Modular Active PFC Power Supply
  
• LG Black LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD?R DVD Burner SATA Model GGC-H20L
  

Should I expect some problems with incompatibilties with the P6T and OCZ or anything here really?

I don't think I should but I'd like to hear from you guys who already built it and probably had a few quirks here and there.

Thanks.

[goji]

I personally think the 940 is way to much money for a processor, especially in light of the revelation of a previous chip splurge.

However, if price isn't a real concern, your build looks healthy and mean to me! PSU may be overkill, but it does leave options open for triple SLI if you care to providing the PSU and Mobo support it.

[AudioDope]

12gb = okill

[Boz]

12gb = okill

For gaming yeah.. but I use this for a lot of graphic work and other stuff where every gb is important.

[The Canadian]

So I'm building a beast again. this time i7. This time around though, I'm not going make the same mistake and shell out $1000+ for a CPU that will be obsolete in 6-10 months and performance gain is like 5-10%. So I went with i7 940.

Here's what I wanted to ask. i7 platform has a lot of bugs and compatibility issues among manufacturers, so I'm trying to lessen my pain with picking up components that work. So those of you who made the builds and have it rock solid with no problems, please feel free to jump in with advices.

What I'm getting:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819115201

• Intel Core i7 940 Nehalem 2.93GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601940 - Retail
  
• ASUS P6T LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (I really didn't see the point of Deluxe)
  
• 12gb of ram - 2x OCZ Platinum 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3P1600LV6GK - Retail
  
• 2x Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000HLFS 300GB 10000 RPM
  
• Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31500341AS 1.5TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb
  
• 2x EVGA GeForce GTX 275 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16
  
• Antec Nine Hundred Two Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
  
• SILVERSTONE ST1000 1000W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Modular Active PFC Power Supply
  
• LG Black LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD?R DVD Burner SATA Model GGC-H20L
  

Should I expect some problems with incompatibilties with the P6T and OCZ or anything here really?

I don't think I should but I'd like to hear from you guys who already built it and probably had a few quirks here and there.

Thanks.

Take a look at NCIX, they are a Canadian company but have a US web store...and they price match...here is the URL:

http://www.ncixus.com/

Also, get rid of the following:

LG Black LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD?R DVD Burner SATA Model GGC-H20L

And get either the:

LG BH08-LS20 Black BLU-RAY Writer 8X BD-R 16X DVD-R SATA Lightscribe Internal Drive

or

LG CH08-LS10 Black BLU-RAY 8X Reader & 16X DVD Writer Combo Internal SATA Lightscribe

And, as for your question "Should I expect some problems with incompatibilties with the P6T and OCZ or anything here really?"; check out ASUS' support site.

[goatsniffer]

Let me tell you. I have 8GB, excuse me, had 8GB in my server system. I do a LOT of virtualization on that machine and I really didn't utilize a full 8GB. I chose instead to go to 4GB and put the other 4GB into a new workload machine. You will 'never' see the benefit of that much memory in the life of that system. Using 6 DIMMS is going to make OCing more difficult as there will be more stress on the FSB, and your OC will only be as good as the weakest DIMM.

Another thing. I have two of those seagate 1.5TB drives. They are good drives; real fast. The downside is that there are a lot of failues in that product line. The firmware isses that cause RAID issues have been worked out if you get drives with the new firmware, but the drives still carry a high failure rate. I recomend the Western Digital equivalent if you need that much storage. Two of them in RAID0 net me about 150MB/s, with just one of them clocking in at 130MB/s. I can't trust them with critical data tho because of the line's track record.

And where is the SSD? I know you have the Velociraptors, but they still have disk latency. If you've ever seens a pair of SSDs in RAID0 you won't think Velociraptors are so quick anymore.

I agree with the other poster that said the PSU was overkill. Go for cooling, efficiency, and amperage on the rails in a PSU, as 800w should be enough even for the multiple cards. My server draws a paultry 110w under load with all it's modern components, and my OCed gaming rig about 350w with the Radeon HD 3450.

[Max Veteran]

I'm not going make the same mistake and shell out $1000+ for a CPU that will be obsolete in 6-10 months and performance gain is like 5-10%. So I went with i7 940.

Lol, the i7 920 isn't that much faster generally than the QX9770. I'd ditch the 940, and get a 920 and do what I did and overclock it to 4Ghz. The speed is killer and you'll save some much needed pennies for SSD drives and other goodies.

[White Cuban]

12GB is still a overkill for graphics unless your rendering huge stuff...

you can load like 50 photoshops in RAM with no issue

[Boz]

Guys I don't want to sound like an creep but I really didn't ask about advices about ram size. You most likely don't use things as I do. I understand. It's not an overkill when you use 3ds max or photoshop or after effects with hundreds of layers or models. It makes a difference.

What I did ask for though is compatibility issues on i7 platform. Makes sense. I know most mobos had issues with rams and stuff.

I'm asking about that. Thanks.

[+shift. MVC]

1000W is overkill, you'll be fine with a good 850W (Antec Signature 850W, Corsair TX850)

[Boz]

I replaced Silverstone 1000W with Antec TruePower Quattro 850W. It was too much anyways and I'll never saturate it.

[unkdirkpitt]

That is a lot of ram! Sorry to nitpick...

Consider their 'that's overkill' statements as moneysaving opportunities, people are right to say hey now, 12gb is overkill. You need to understand that some of us are professionals and do know what we're talking about. We're here to help yah =)

Speaking from my professional experience, you are most likely wasting your money on the extra 6gb of ram. Put your money somewhere else and get more out of your machine.

Softimage 7.5 suggests 4gb+, Softimage 7.0 would be approx 2gb+ (most of our animators were using 2-4gb)

Maya 2009 2gb ram

3dS Max 1 GB RAM (4 GB recommended) and that's in the 2010 version.

So yes, based on those -facts- you might be overdoing it. Now based on the last animation studio i worked at 12gb would BE overkill, 4gb would be nice, and 6gb would be a dream. Most of the modelers had 4gb.

Spend smart. :)

[Vice]

You guys really don't know what Boz does with his computers. 12GB of RAM for him is highly justified considering the toolset he uses. This isn't some kid with daddies money looking to buy a Gaming machine he is using professional applications with thousands of objects and he uses up RAM like christmas candy.

Now on to the System itself:

One thing I noticed is to use SLI on that motherboard you need to use the two top PCIe x16 links but if you do so the top card may overheat unless you have a monsoon cooler inside your case (And I'm not kidding your going to need one of those cases with 4 fans on the door pointing at the Motherboard to cool cards like that). If you move your 2nd card down to the bottom PCIe x16 link (Which you could do if you have another SLI connector for example from your old 680i) then you wont be able to use the USB / Firewire or even turn the computer on as it will block the front panel headers.

If you ever intend to go Tri-SLI with this (Not suggesting you are) you obviously will have the same problem of not being able to turn the Computer on by the switch on the case.

The SP/DIF out on the Motherboard will be blocked by the 3nd card if you go Tri-SLI and it will be blocked by the 2nd card if you spread the two cards out for Thermal reasons. Which would mean you wouldn't be able to get audio out over HDMI on any of your Graphics cards.

Apart from these compatibility issues with certain configurations of the hardware you've picked the rest looks good. I personally have that Bluray drive it's very good. Re: RAM May I suggest dropping down to 1333MHz as when using so much (12GB) coupled with Triple Channel you really wont see any benefit from 1333 to 1600. We are talking 1 second differences in unpacking a 3GB rar file, 0.4FPS difference in games. Practically non-existent differences and I'm sure your system BUS would benefit from the lower strain and lower heat.

I noticed you didn't include a CPU cooler if your going with water then disregard this paragraph but if you plan to go with Air may I suggest the Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme for LGA 1366 - It cools my Core i7 940 to around 29-30c idle and 48-50c at load on all Cores @ Stock speeds with Intels built in Single-Multiplier Overclocking system turned on.

I'm surprised you've decided to build an i7 computer after your post in that thread the other day.

[Boz]

You guys really don't know what Boz does with his computers. 12GB of RAM for him is highly justified considering the toolset he uses. This isn't some kid with daddies money looking to buy a Gaming machine he is using professional applications with thousands of objects and he uses up RAM like christmas candy.

Now on to the System itself:

One thing I noticed is to use SLI on that motherboard you need to use the two top PCIe x16 links but if you do so the top card may overheat unless you have a monsoon cooler inside your case (And I'm not kidding your going to need one of those cases with 4 fans on the door pointing at the Motherboard to cool cards like that). If you move your 2nd card down to the bottom PCIe x16 link (Which you could do if you have another SLI connector for example from your old 680i) then you wont be able to use the USB / Firewire or even turn the computer on as it will block the front panel headers.

If you ever intend to go Tri-SLI with this (Not suggesting you are) you obviously will have the same problem of not being able to turn the Computer on by the switch on the case.

The SP/DIF out on the Motherboard will be blocked by the 3nd card if you go Tri-SLI and it will be blocked by the 2nd card if you spread the two cards out for Thermal reasons. Which would mean you wouldn't be able to get audio out over HDMI on any of your Graphics cards.

Apart from these compatibility issues with certain configurations of the hardware you've picked the rest looks good. I personally have that Bluray drive it's very good. Re: RAM May I suggest dropping down to 1333MHz as when using so much (12GB) coupled with Triple Channel you really wont see any benefit from 1333 to 1600. We are talking 1 second differences in unpacking a 3GB rar file, 0.4FPS difference in games. Practically non-existent differences and I'm sure your system BUS would benefit from the lower strain and lower heat.

I noticed you didn't include a CPU cooler if your going with water then disregard this paragraph but if you plan to go with Air may I suggest the Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme for LGA 1366 - It cools my Core i7 940 to around 29-30c idle and 48-50c at load on all Cores @ Stock speeds with Intels built in Single-Multiplier Overclocking system turned on.

I'm surprised you've decided to build an i7 computer after your post in that thread the other day.

Thanks Vice.

I need to give a bit more info now that you posted some good things.

I am using Cooler Master V8 as a cooler. I forgot to add it up there.

I have picked up Antec 1200 case just in case Nine Hundred II is too small cause it will definitely get cramped. I wanted a smaller case but it might prove to be too small.

You are right about everything you say. I usually don't even run SLI but I use 2 powerful GPUs because I have tons of pixels to draw out 30" and 2 24" displays and I've noticed that my older cards do show some strain with these high resolutions when you work. I do believe that new drivers for Nvidia allow SLI even with multiple monitors so that will definitely be a good thing.

I don't really game either. I mean I did and ocassionally I do, but I do mostly on consoles now, so I might sometimes fireup Modern Warfare 2 when it comes out or World at War but that's it. I don't really play games on it. No plans for tri-SLI either. No need really.

You are right about RAM. I don't think some enthusiasts here understand how I use my machine. When you run Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Photoshop with a few PSDs open that have a lot of layers, run Bridge, and 3ds max during my workday, all this takes a huge toll on ram on a 64bit system. For regular gamers and amateurs even 4gb is fine but apps are sucking up more and more juice these days. Especially the ones I use. My Mac Pro has 10gb of ram and I'm definitely utilizing it to the fullest and that's without 3ds max running.

That Blu-ray drive is really a no brainer for me cause i have a big selection of HD DVDs too so having a backup drives in my computers definitely makes me feel better if I have to rip it or watch and ocassional movie while in office. I don't really have the need for expensive Blu-ray burners to begin with.

I agree with you completely about 1333mhz ram. I want my machine to be stable. That's why I buy a bit faster capable RAM and then run it at normal. It allows me to overclock if I want to sell for those who want the max performance and don't have need as I do later, but for now that's what I'm going to do.

My concern was mainly about compatibility with ASUS P6T and OCZ ram and GPUs. I'm not sure if they really polished those problematic BIOSes and compatibilities that plagued i7 platform when it came out. I'm not sure if it's gonna cause problems if you max out RAM slots too.

As for recommending Q9650. I definitely don't fall in the category that member did. His needs were not as extensive and was really for something that was more price concious. That's why I recommended he could go with 775 platform and Q9650 cause he could save money, get a better GPU and have an overall great performer on the cheap.

I'm a different breed. I love building computers and always want best stuff. I pretty much buy new stuff each year (my old computer was almost 2 years cause i bought a Mac Pro in the meantime). But now, I'm not that impressed with Mac, I will still use it for iPhone dev and some other stuff but I want my PC to be again my main workstation and I needed the fastest possible for logical amount of money. i7 extreme is really way too expensive and I actually wanted to build a dual quad Xeons Nehalem at 2.8ghz (for 8 core machine) but those are priced even more insanely. $1250 per processor plus $400-$500 for mobo and ECC DDR3 ram. I don't remember computers being this expensive as Nehalem platform. Even when I built dual Xeons 3.6ghz a long while back that were top of the line I didn't pay this much.

Self built Xeons Nehalem with the good components comes to like $4500+. That's just crazy. So i decided to go with i7 considering that even After Effects, Photoshop CS4, 3ds max and others don't really fully utilize 8 cores. They work great with 4 cores. So I really didn't regret going with i7 price wise.

That's about it.

[Vice]

You shouldn't have any issues with that Mobo + RAM configuration. Should run really nicely :)

The one thing I will say about that RAM is it runs very high on voltages 1.65v is really pushing it on an i7 it could degrade the processor over time (like 6 months to a year) and eventually break your computer. I would suggest going with some lower voltage memory 1.5-1.6v max

[Malkii]

You shouldn't have any issues with that Mobo + RAM configuration. Should run really nicely :)

The one thing I will say about that RAM is it runs very high on voltages 1.65v is really pushing it on an i7 it could degrade the processor over time (like 6 months to a year) and eventually break your computer. I would suggest going with some lower voltage memory 1.5-1.6v max

1.65 Volts is fine, but no higher and that's straight from the horses mouth.

What are the Intel? Core? i7 desktop processors DDR3 memory voltage limitations?

Intel recommends using memory that adheres to the Jedec memory specification for DDR3 memory which is 1.5 volts. The Intel? Core? i7 processors should not be used with DDR3 memory that is rated for voltage over 1.65 volts. Anything over this voltage can either damage the processor or significantly reduce the processor life span.

Incidentally I have the Asus P6T with a 965(ES) @ 4Ghz and the system is incredibly stable, the voltage on my 6Gb tri-channel Corsair memory is @ 1.65.

[Vice]

I still say 1.65 is very high. I would say go with 1.5-1.6 anyway as they are readily available. Why tempt fate going at the maximum they recommend.

[Malkii]

When you get a spare couple of minutes, have a read of this.

I couldn't find it at first ;)

Also the maximum they recommend is always going to be lower than the actual maximum.

Oh and Intel actually certify ram @ 1.65 Volts for use with i7.

So while caution is usually a good thing, I think it's going a bit far to worry people when Intel certify kit at those voltages :)

Edited May 6, 2009 by Malkii

[Vice]

Yeah I still wouldn't want to run at 1.65v I've read that article previously. Another perspective on this is. If you buy ram at 1.65v you have no headroom. I picked better RAM at 1.5v 1333MHz and that gives me a lot of room to play with.

[The Canadian]

I have picked up Antec 1200 case just in case Nine Hundred II is too small cause it will definitely get cramped. I wanted a smaller case but it might prove to be too small.

For a case, I'd go with the Cooler Master HAF 932, lots of fans...and can be used with water cooling as well.

[_dandy_]

I'm still not buying the argument that you need 12GB of RAM despite what you'd like us to believe. Please post screenshots of Task Manager on your current machine, showing the Processes tab, under what you'd consider (for you) to be normal and heavy loads. Include the "Memory Usage" and "Peak Memory Usage" columns (XP), or "Memory - Working Set" and "Memory - Peak Working Set" (Win7) -- I don't recall what the equivalent are called on Vista, if that's what you're using.

You may very well need it, but until you can provide the figures to back your claims, I'm taking this with a large grain of salt.

[Ci7]

@boz

if you have considered those rams

be warned they wont work correctly with just pushing vDimm to 1.65v

it required me to push also QPI voltage to about 1.35v ,for it to run in it spec. otherwise it wont be good stability wise , it will hang/crush your pc

[Vice]

I'm still not buying the argument that you need 12GB of RAM despite what you'd like us to believe. Please post screenshots of Task Manager on your current machine, showing the Processes tab, under what you'd consider (for you) to be normal and heavy loads. Include the "Memory Usage" and "Peak Memory Usage" columns (XP), or "Memory - Working Set" and "Memory - Peak Working Set" (Win7) -- I don't recall what the equivalent are called on Vista, if that's what you're using.

You may very well need it, but until you can provide the figures to back your claims, I'm taking this with a large grain of salt.

Why does he need to justify himself to you or anyone else, Are you the RAM Police?

[The Canadian]

Boz, all these people telling you that you shouldn't go with 12GB of RAM are a lot of the same ones who told me I shouldn't by a Core i7 965 but to buy a C2D or C2Q instead; I didn't listen to them either!

[Manson_AAN]

May I suggest an after-market heat-sink as well, so you can overclock it better unleashing its full full potential. Because stock heat-sink/fan sucks. I'm averaging around 43 degrees C in winter (Australian winter, so no snow outside :(). While rest of the system is at 30 degrees C (using an Antec 900 Two).

Can I attempt to convince you to use WD instead of Seagate? I've had bad experiences with them, same as my friends. Especially if you're using 1.5TB :|.

Just a thought. Rest looks fine. I'll leave the RAM debate to others.