[URGENT] Server has died...

[Lilrich]

I thought the whole point of raid was for redundancy...anyways that is not the problem here.

chkdsk /r might sort that issue but it all depends i suppose on what has gone on in the config of the box previous to this error.

[ANON86364]

Right, a check disc is usually your first step in what seems to be corruption in this case. Just need to know if there is a RAID in place to suggest how to run a check disc if he has a RAID - Windows Recovery Console or any other repair disc would need a driver. If a check disc does not solve it, prehaps the MBR is corrupt in which case you can try fixmbr. Just need some additional information.

[game_over]

It reallys sounds like there is so much more than your backups being out of date. Maybe after this disaster situation your management or whoever is responsible will realize where some extra money needs to go...

Obviously if you are getting any sort of BSOD you are past the BIOS post...some people really should stay out before they cause more harm than good.

Do you have a RAID on this server? If you do, right after BIOS post you should see a BIOS for the RAID controller...does it show the RAID as degraded?

Also, the most obvious question: has anything been done to this server, particularly last night?

The server is usually fine how it is which is why i've never really touched it. We have our main server which is up to date intel xeon and is due to be upgraded to windows server 2008. the damaged server is used only to host ISA for our firewall... we even manage the ISA through our main server. so i don't even need a backup of files, all i need is the access rules from ISA, we have lots because we are a school and use it to determine different groups of computers and what they can and cant access.. however, the accounts have been working fine, even with isa down?

no we dont have a raid, it's a single SCSI drive i believe.

no changes have been made to the server in years.

Uh? Good answer?.... what would a router do? ISA is a firewall for most people only, more then likely they have a router before it if it is coming in through a T1 or other high end business class line... all our networks ISA sits behind a Cisco router before you get to the actual network...

and for not having your filter rules backed up, wow... one of the first things you should do once you got the rules set up is back it up... its just a small XML file you can put on a USB flash drive......

thats correct... i know, i've been kicking myself all day.

It just sounds like you need to get to a command prompt and run chkdsk,that seems to resolve the boot volume error.

i've been unsucessful running chkdsk so far, it wouldnt run from the recovery console?

Right, a check disc is usually your first step in what seems to be corruption in this case. Just need to know if there is a RAID in place to suggest how to run a check disc if he has a RAID - Windows Recovery Console or any other repair disc would need a driver. If a check disc does not solve it, prehaps the MBR is corrupt in which case you can try fixmbr. Just need some additional information.

no raid, but still not managed to run a chskdsk. i downloaded windows 2000 and windows 2000 server boot disks, but they only got me so far before requiring the windows 2000 emergency CD which i dont have... i'm going to try and obtain a disk over the weekend.

thanks for all previous suggestions, i'm up and running with ipcop.

[Sophism]

I bet the drive itself is toast, Does it make any weird sounds? The day you have spent trying to recover the data should probably be spent rebuilding the ISA server properly. (raid 5 and automatic backups)

You keep saying its just your ISA firewall so its not a big deal, but its still a critical piece of equipment for your network to function properly.

[ckempo]

Bit late now you've got IPCop going, but you may wish to look at Untangle too.

[game_over]

i'm having trouble running a simple chkdsk... i downloaded windows 2000 bootdisks, they boot me into "windows 2000 setup" so i can only use recovery console from here, chkdsk doesnt work.

i used an ms-dos startup disk but get 'bad command or file name'

loading a windows 2000 safemode command prompt blue screens

i have a windows 2000 disk now, do you think its safe to re-install, get into ISA, backup, then do a clean install.

[agreenbhm]

i'm having trouble running a simple chkdsk... i downloaded windows 2000 bootdisks, they boot me into "windows 2000 setup" so i can only use recovery console from here, chkdsk doesnt work.

i used an ms-dos startup disk but get 'bad command or file name'

loading a windows 2000 safemode command prompt blue screens

i have a windows 2000 disk now, do you think its safe to re-install, get into ISA, backup, then do a clean install.

What do you mean chkdsk doesn't work? What is the message given?

[kimsland]

i used an ms-dos startup disk but get 'bad command or file name'

I suspect that "startup disk" did not have chkdsk on it

[agreenbhm]

What do you mean chkdsk doesn't work? What is the message given?

What kind of HDD does the machine have? SCSI? If so, that's probably why you can't CHKDSK, it doesn't have the right drivers. Make an F6 floppy with the drivers and run CHKDSK.

As far as re-installing, I'd say def. make an image of the disk before doing anything further. That way you can screw up w/e is on there and still go back to the "clean" (as in before you mess with it further) copy of the data. If you can clone the disk, I'd say go ahead and do the repair install and recover the ISA rules, like you mentioned.

But def. try CHKDSK again first.

[matt4pack]

I'm not trying to be mean but it sounds like you may be in over your head if your asking for all this help. The best thing to do is probably call a consultant and get them to come down and get things working. They charge like crazy so I'm not sure how well your company would like that but it might be your best bet.

What I would do is take the hard drive out of the server and put it as a secondary drive in a computer that works. You should be able to see the drive and copy off any files you need since it sounds like the drive is somewhat accessible. It's probably gone bad but if it's still recognized then you should be able to get files off it. Since you said it was a SCSI drive this might not be very easy so a linux live CD would also work but if you don't have the image then you would have to download and burn it which would take some time. I've never had much luck trying to repair Windows installations as it usually doesn't work and just wastes a lot of time. It's faster and easier to just get the files you need and rebuild from scratch on a different drive.

[agreenbhm]

I'm not trying to be mean but it sounds like you may be in over your head if your asking for all this help.

My thoughts exactly fellow Raleigh resident!

[pairughdocks]

If you are still unsuccessful running chkdsk, there is another command that checks for critical windows system files to be there. "scannow /sfc" this makes sure all important system files are there. I'm not sure if it's an XP/Server 2003 thing only though. I was where you are right now about a week ago and I have an automated backup that runs at midnight every day not only to a secondary secure server, but to an external 1TB HDD as well. It's very important to keep good backups because when our firewall rules got lost, I spent days making sure they were the way they were before.

Best of luck :)

[zhangm Supervisor]

If you are still unsuccessful running chkdsk, there is another command that checks for critical windows system files to be there. "scannow /sfc" this makes sure all important system files are there. I'm not sure if it's an XP/Server 2003 thing only though. I was where you are right now about a week ago and I have an automated backup that runs at midnight every day not only to a secondary secure server, but to an external 1TB HDD as well. It's very important to keep good backups because when our firewall rules got lost, I spent days making sure they were the way they were before.

Best of luck :)

Dude, it is sfc /scannow. And I don't think it will help.

[agreenbhm]

Dude, it is sfc /scannow. And I don't think it will help.

Not only is the command SFC /SCANNOW, but it won't help at all considering he can't get into the OS to begin with.

Your options are the two that have been mentioned earlier.

Do what I said and clone the drive as it is currently to prevent further irreparable damage. Then either connect it as a secondary drive to a working PC and pull the files off (if possible), or load up a boot disk (my vote goes to the Ultimate Boot CD For Windows). Or, you can just do a repair install and pray that your data is in tact enough to pull the needed files off.

With that said, assuming the firewall rules are just an XML file or something like that, as opposed to some confusing array of files scattered about, I would use the boot cd to get into the WinPE environment, pull the files, do a clean install, and call it a day.

[game_over]

I'm not trying to be mean but it sounds like you may be in over your head if your asking for all this help. The best thing to do is probably call a consultant and get them to come down and get things working. They charge like crazy so I'm not sure how well your company would like that but it might be your best bet.

What I would do is take the hard drive out of the server and put it as a secondary drive in a computer that works. You should be able to see the drive and copy off any files you need since it sounds like the drive is somewhat accessible. It's probably gone bad but if it's still recognized then you should be able to get files off it. Since you said it was a SCSI drive this might not be very easy so a linux live CD would also work but if you don't have the image then you would have to download and burn it which would take some time. I've never had much luck trying to repair Windows installations as it usually doesn't work and just wastes a lot of time. It's faster and easier to just get the files you need and rebuild from scratch on a different drive.

yeah i totally understand what your saying, this is still a learning curve for me.. i pick stuff up quickly and have taken everything that people have said on-board. we're only a small company with a small ICT budget, they are happy for me to use this time to learn and do what i need to do...

anyway, i went ahead and tried to re build windows from setup... i got the error "damaged or unpartitioned disk" so i'm guessing its goosed. i've pulled the server apart and noticed it has 2 SCSI drives coming off the controller...

now i didnt know anything about the 2nd drive and i'm sort of hoping it's mirrored.. but i cant see anyway of accessing it?

regardless of what works and what doesnt, we're going to upgrade... can anyone offer any advice on a good setup that can backup.

at the moment i'm looking at a new SCSI drive (or 2?), controller and cables.

or should i go with S-ATA and a sata controller pci card running a raid setup?

thanks :)

[ANON86364]

So I think it's decided your drive is failed.

Moving on...You are now asking for advice to which hardware components you should use to build a new server or upgrade your current...SCSI is not a technology that I've been using lately. SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) is becoming more prevalent. They use the SATA interface but are SCSI drives on the inside.

With pointing that out, I think designing and building or upgrading a server for stable and long-term use is something I would not recommend to someone who isn't absolutely fully fluent in all the current technologies available. There are serious factors to consider from RAID controllers/configurations to the software that you put on this server.

One option is virtualization, but that's a whole 'nother can o' worms.

Good luck to you. Research all you can.

[agreenbhm]

One option is virtualization, but that's a whole 'nother can o' worms.

To me, it doesn't sound like an option for this guy, no offense. You've got to understand fairly basic concepts before you can bring that to a whole new level in the virtual world. Not to mention the physical to virtual conversion process will probably be a bit flustering (if anything goes awry).

As far as the current situation, I'd say get another SCSI drive. Well, first, figure out which drive failed, and then replace it. Also, determine what kind of RAID you've been running.

Why buy a new RAID controller and two new hdds when he can just replace one hdd? It sounds like this machine is fairly old (running Win2K) so I wouldn't put new hardware into it (the new RAID controller and SAS drives). Replace the failed hdd or buy a new server.

[ANON86364]

To me, it doesn't sound like an option for this guy, no offense. You've got to understand fairly basic concepts before you can bring that to a whole new level in the virtual world. Not to mention the physical to virtual conversion process will probably be a bit flustering (if anything goes awry).

As far as the current situation, I'd say get another SCSI drive. Well, first, figure out which drive failed, and then replace it. Also, determine what kind of RAID you've been running.

Why buy a new RAID controller and two new hdds when he can just replace one hdd? It sounds like this machine is fairly old (running Win2K) so I wouldn't put new hardware into it (the new RAID controller and SAS drives). Replace the failed hdd or buy a new server.

I gave him valid options but already stated that I would not recommend doing any of those options to someone who does not fluently understand all the concepts behind them - hence "but that's a whole 'nother can o' worms".

He also stated that they were looking to upgrade. If they want more life out of this server, one SCSI drive may be fine. But also consider the price differences and that if one drive went the other might soon as well. It may be more cost effective in the long-term, considering possible down-time in the future, to get a new RAID controller and new drives. With of course taking the non-recommendation into account.

[Trivious]

Have you considered the drive may be bad? If this is the case, you could use Acronis to image it to an external USB drive and restore to another drive. If the drive can read just once, this will bring you back to A-1 on it.

Chris Watson

Network Administrator/IT Manager 7 years

MCSA, MCSE, C/EH

[game_over]

I dont see any reason why we would just upgrade 1 drive if one has already failed, they are only 36GB and clearly really old so the other could also be nearing the end of its life.

whoever set the server up i dont even think they were using the disks in a RAID. the first drive cannot be accessed at all and the 2nd drives comes up as 'damaged or unformatted'

we have ordered 2 new drives that have higher capacity and also alot faster... the rest of the hardware is sufficient for what we're using the server for.

I will try Acronis on the drives

Thanks for all the other suggestions, it's really helped and i've learned some stuff. Smoothwall was a life saver... if one more person asked me "when will the internet be back.." :cry:

[Trivious]

I dont see any reason why we would just upgrade 1 drive if one has already failed, they are only 36GB and clearly really old so the other could also be nearing the end of its life.

whoever set the server up i dont even think they were using the disks in a RAID. the first drive cannot be accessed at all and the 2nd drives comes up as 'damaged or unformatted'

we have ordered 2 new drives that have higher capacity and also alot faster... the rest of the hardware is sufficient for what we're using the server for.

I will try Acronis on the drives

Thanks for all the other suggestions, it's really helped and i've learned some stuff. Smoothwall was a life saver... if one more person asked me "when will the internet be back.." :cry:

I have found that Acronis works on drives that appear to be dead and/or BSOD most of the time. If the drives are identical, you can also pull the control board off the bottom of one and try it on the other for recovery and this will sometimes work as well. There is another trick I have heard of, but I have never tried it. They say you can FREEZE (yes you read correctly) the hard drives sometimes, which condenses the platters long enough to save the data, but I have never tried it. As a last resort I would try it before canning the drives. Crazy, but if your going to toss them anyhow, why not right? In any case good luck and let us know how it goes!

[punklefish]

There is another trick I have heard of, but I have never tried it. They say you can FREEZE (yes you read correctly) the hard drives sometimes, which condenses the platters long enough to save the data, but I have never tried it. As a last resort I would try it before canning the drives. Crazy, but if your going to toss them anyhow, why not right? In any case good luck and let us know how it goes!

We've done this at work to a couple drives and it's worked but really depends on what is wrong with the drive. What we do is pack the drive in an anti-static bag with as many silica gel packets as we can find, put it in the freezer for an hour or so then take it out and immediately plug it into a computer and run whatever recovery is going to be done. It might get you 5 minutes or an hour, just keep in mind that this has the potential to do more harm to the drive so only use it as a last resort before you toss the drive anyway.

[game_over]

So, using this freezing method it could actually let me boot into windows?

and it's safe to plug the drive into electrical equipment even through it's frozen, that will eventually melt?

[AnthonySterling]

On failed drives, I've often found popping them into a USB caddy can allow me to grab a file or two from it. As USB permits hot plug and play, the fact it keeps failing whilst in use just means the drive is inaccessible and not system fatal.

Although, reading this topic, I guess its of no use as it's a SCSI. :/

[agreenbhm]

If you can slipstream the necessary scsi drivers into a boot cd, then boot into a WinPE environment, you can probably pull the files off of the drive, unless it's completely toast.