(More) Ads Coming To Xbox 360 Dashboard?

[Xero]

There's no ads in the guide either, which is the equivalent. The dashboard is practically all live stuff, and you never have to actually use the dashboard.

you can can start up right into a game, you can use the guide for anything, even grabbing addons for the game you're playing. and to shut of the console or play background music. You never actually HAVE to use the dashboard on the 360. Wich is the way it should be. After all why should you need to use an operating system on a gaming machine.

in Any case, if you don't want to see ads, that's easy enough. just use the guide. Not the dashboard which is just a XBLM portal anyway.

Well said, I rarely play xbox so I don't know all the details, I assumed the Dashboard was the term they used for their in navigation like XMB for the PS3. I do remember seeing ads when browsing around on it for headsets and stuff. While its not awful by any stretch I just think if I pay for something I shouldn't have to see any ads. Frankly I'm surprised the PS3 doesn't have any considering it doesn't cost anything to use their network. Even the PS Store only advertises popular content in the store.

[Bhav]

Yes I know what Bhav was doing AB, been reading his comments for many years now and his tune never changes. He was the Playstation daddy long before you were on the scene :p

Speaking of someone's tune that never changes... ;)

Don't try to sound innocent in the "daddy of..." department :p

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Just like Neo and Agent Smith, we need one another :happy:

No but really, do you even own a 360 yet?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Yes I know what Bhav was doing AB, been reading his comments for many years now and his tune never changes. He was the Playstation daddy long before you were on the scene :p

Like I've been saying, what and see what "partners" they are, but you can bet it won't be McDonalds and the like. Microsoft must have one of the longest lists for partners out there, but they aren't stupid and they won't flood gamers with ads that aren't relevant. Hell, they've already told us they're not going to flood us full stop. My opinion is we'll not see any new areas of the NXE used for ads, but instead it'll just be the same location with different companies. We'll need to wait and see.

I'm still going to pay for XBL because it offers a superior over the rest, and until that changes (if that changes) then I'll continue paying for it.

The money we pay for XBL goes towards more than bandwidth costs, that's always been the case, not sure who you are referring to in your last argument. The money goes towards the special deals like Facebook, Twitter, Last.fm, Sky etc etc. All the exclusive DLC they secure like GTA4 and FO3. It's not like Apple where shareholders is just sitting around in a vault while Steve Jobs jumps off a diving board swimming in it.

People would be daft to stop paying for it over this if they enjoy Live (unless the ads were seriously unreasonable and you wanted to make a "stance"). However I don't think it's unfair to prod MS about the ads, remind them you are paying a subscription and if anything advertisement should be focussed more on Silver, not paying Gold members.

No one is attacking the 360 or Live or saying another service is better, we're discussing advertisement, something everyone here knows fine well is very topical (Neowin has a topic over 100 pages on adblock and Neowin doesn't cost anything :laugh:). Neowin needs the ads for survival, people are asking MS what they need them from when Gold users are paying already.

If they release the dash update this fall with the ability for Gold users only to boot on My Xbox instead of the spotlight, you'd see a lot less whining. As long as whatever these Silverlight ads are integrate themselves in a similar way to the spotlight (even just replacing it with fancier ads), as opposed to being ads you can see anywhere else on the dashboard.

The only other thing I wouldn't mind come of this is free games/applications that are ad supported, like LastFM, but you'll just get grumbles from me because MS limit Silver users when they come around :laugh:

The money we pay for XBL goes towards more than bandwidth costs, that's always been the case, not sure who you are referring to in your last argument. The money goes towards the special deals like Facebook, Twitter, Last.fm, Sky etc etc. All the exclusive DLC they secure like GTA4 and FO3.

That's a fair point, apart from the exclusive DLC malarkey (I'll never agree 50 million for GTA4 DLC was a "good deal" for MS).

I still ask the question of advertisement though, as while our subscriptions are used for more than just bandwidth, they still are used for bandwidth as well.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Audioboxer

[Bhav]

No but really, do you even own a 360 yet?

Nope. There are quite a few games I'd like to try if I'm honest. However, I can barely afford to buy all the games I want on PS3...and this sort of news doesn't convince me to save my money for it.

From a neutral-as-possible perspective...the idea that I have to pay to play online and have to view ads doesn't rub well with me.

And yes, of course if the ads aren't intrusive then there's no problem etc etc, but surely you agree that you'd prefer not to have ads especially if you're already paying for Xbox Live...

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

People would be daft to stop paying for it over this if they enjoy Live (unless the ads were seriously unreasonable and you wanted to make a "stance"). However I don't think it's unfair to prod MS about the ads, remind them you are paying a subscription and if anything advertisement should be focussed more on Silver, not paying Gold members.

No one is attacking the 360 or Live or saying another service is better, we're discussing advertisement, something everyone here knows fine well is very topical (Neowin has a topic over 100 pages on adblock and Neowin doesn't cost anything :laugh:). Neowin needs the ads for survival, people are asking MS what they need them from when Gold users are paying already.

That's a fair point, apart from the exclusive DLC malarkey (I'll never agree 50 million for GTA4 DLC was a "good deal" for MS).

Sometimes reading PS owners comments it's like they are a vampire reacting to sunlight when it comes to ads. I wouldn't be surprised if they jumped ship and went back to the PSN.

Put it this way though, you pay for a tv license and have to put up with adverts on the BBC channels still. You still have to watch ads when you go to a cinema. You still need to sit through trailers on your dvds before the film starts. They are there to support the subscription/price of the product, otherwise they would charge a lot more than we do currently.

Not going to get involved if you think the DLC is a bad deal or not. I know your stance on it. I was just clarifying the money goes towards more than bandwidth and it's not a secret where it goes either.

Nope. There are quite a few games I'd like to try if I'm honest. However, I can barely afford to buy all the games I want on PS3...and this sort of news doesn't convince me to save my money for it.

From a neutral-as-possible perspective...the idea that I have to pay to play online and have to view ads doesn't rub well with me.

And yes, of course if the ads aren't intrusive then there's no problem etc etc, but surely you agree that you'd prefer not to have ads especially if you're already paying for Xbox Live...

And I understand your concerns and standpoint but your comment earlier doesn't help the GH any.

And honestly I would like to see the ads removed from Gold members, but they barely bother me and I actually sit down to watch the content quite a lot these days. Right now it's usually trailers or Xbox staff related segments, if that were to change to ads for soft drinks and fast food places I would definitely kick up a fuss.

Edit: also, not sure if it was this thread or the other, I'm too sleepy today to keep up, but someone mentioned the price of XBL. Microsoft dropped the price months ago due to the economy. I think it's ?30 or so now instead of ?40. Too lazy to chec:p:p

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Sometimes reading PS owners comments it's like they are a vampire reacting to sunlight when it comes to ads. I wouldn't be surprised if they jumped ship and went back to the PSN.

Put it this way though, you pay for a tv license and have to put up with adverts on the BBC channels still. You still have to watch ads when you go to a cinema. You still need to sit through trailers on your dvds before the film starts. They are there to support the subscription/price of the product, otherwise they would charge a lot more than we do currently.

Not going to get involved if you think the DLC is a bad deal or not. I know your stance on it. I was just clarifying the money goes towards more than bandwidth and it's not a secret where it goes either.

You can't compare Xbox Live to TV though....

On a TV you're paying towards all the TV shows/films that get made and shown to you for free through adverts (and your TV license). On BBC as well there is no adverts or commercial breaks during a show due to you paying a TV license.

It's almost like saying it's okay if you turned on your TV without an aerial in and you seen advertisements on your TVs menu/settings pages. Or if all TVs had an advertisement channel built in with one of those annoying sales people that shout really loud that gets defaulted to every time you turn your TV on.

You don't get fed content live on your Dashboard, you need to go view content. Adverts should be on the marketplace and within applications that provide you with content, free (like demos or lastfm/twitter) or paid like XBLA games.

Sky on the other hand are money grabbers, don't get me started on them. Subscription prices are ridiculous.

Our lives are surrounded by ads as it is, the next step is ads starting to be put in our own personal spaces...

[Dc'1]

I don't own a 360, but if I was paying for Live I wouldn't be happy at all to get ads as well...

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I disagree with the BBC argument. It's no secret I hate them and their programs, but bias aside you have to sit through adverts for their tv shows. An advert is an advert, it doesn't have to be for a retail product. Just like XBL you get ads (as it is today) for games and movies, which is the content available to buy. It's not a 1:1 comparison obviously, for starters you don't even have to watch the ads on XBL, the most you get is a thumbnail on the slides which you have to press a button to view them. That's far better than say watching Top Gear and having no control over watching an advert for EastEnders when it finishes.

Still, like I was saying, the subscription price is a lot lower than what it would be if there was no ads.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I disagree with the BBC argument. It's no secret I hate them and their programs, but bias aside you have to sit through adverts for their tv shows. An advert is an advert, it doesn't have to be for a retail product. Just like XBL you get ads (as it is today) for games and movies, which is the content available to buy. It's not a 1:1 comparison obviously, for starters you don't even have to watch the ads on XBL, the most you get is a thumbnail on the slides which you have to press a button to view them. That's far better than say watching Top Gear and having no control over watching an advert for EastEnders when it finishes.

Still, like I was saying, the subscription price is a lot lower than what it would be if there was no ads.

Adverts are the main way TV makes money though for all the shows they create.

MS make money through accessories (hard drive/wifi adaptor anyone?/controllers/memory cards), console sales themselves (once under manufacturing cost), and software (XBLA and retail games) to name the big ones.

You can get a TV broadcast in as many of your rooms have a TV at no extra cost other than the hardware (TV itself) and everyone can watch different channels/same channels. If you have two Xbox 360's in your house, you need two gold accounts if they've to be used simultaneously. Understandably you need two accounts, but I'm just pointing out trying to compare XBL to a TV is a not a great argument.

The shows that you watch on your TV are a 3rd party delivering content to you, MS aren't a 3rd party to their own Xbox. You can buy a TV and never once watch TV broadcasts, but still watch dvds/blu rays/play games consoles all without adverts.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Adverts are the main way TV makes money though for all the shows they create.

MS make money through accessories (hard drive/wifi adaptor anyone?/controllers/memory cards), console sales themselves (once under manufacturing cost), and software (XBLA and retail games) to name the big ones.

You can get a TV broadcast in as many of your rooms have a TV at no extra cost other than the hardware (TV itself) and everyone can watch different channels/same channels. If you have two Xbox 360's in your house, you need two gold accounts if they've to be used simultaneously. Understandably you need two accounts, but I'm just pointing out trying to compare XBL to a TV is a not a great argument.

Ok nevermind you editted your last sentence before I could reply :p But yes I was going to say that's a constraint on any system which requires logging in and not only a "flaw" of XBL. A tv doesn't require you to log on or calls home to the BBC. Even something like Spotify will only allow you to play music on one computer at a time. It's to stop abuse more than anything.

And yeah I agree and said it's not 1:1 comparison, but like I also mentioned, can you really agree with watching trailers/ads when you pay for a dvd or go to the cinema either.

[BajiRav]

Even after reading Major Nelson's post, I still think they better not put more ads on my dash. The current ads are good enough. I am left wondering if the "more ads" will show up in add-ons such as last.fm, twitter etc. If that's the case, I am fine with it.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

this will make the prem themes pretty much useless, same as how the ads make the origional 360 themes useless as it blocked the theme itself.

if ads come again, i might just start buying more PS3 games, as there are no ads that i know of

Edited July 2, 2009 by Hell-In-A-Handbasket

[HawkMan]

Well said, I rarely play xbox so I don't know all the details, I assumed the Dashboard was the term they used for their in navigation like XMB for the PS3. I do remember seeing ads when browsing around on it for headsets and stuff. While its not awful by any stretch I just think if I pay for something I shouldn't have to see any ads. Frankly I'm surprised the PS3 doesn't have any considering it doesn't cost anything to use their network. Even the PS Store only advertises popular content in the store.

There's "ads" in the Dashboard, wich is what you are talking about. But the dashboard is and allways will be a portal to XBLM. and you never actually have to use the Dashboard.

on the 360 the guide (equivalent of the in game XMB) can do everything the Dashboard can do, and you don't ever have to leave a game to do things, and there's no ads.

[spenser.d]

Still confirms the ads are coming even if they replace the spotlight. They better be tucked away on a tab like the spotlight, or on the spotlight itself... Saying they want to make them more organic suggests it's not a simple replacement of the spotlight ads for ones that move or are animated like what silverlight could do.

Doesn't say it's gaming ads only, says it's ads relevant to the LIVE community. Could be for anything related to Xbox, adverts for movies/music/peripherals. Hence "work directly with our partners".

And for stifler saying no one would backlash, look at the comments on Major Nelsons blog...

*sigh* Those signed up on MN's blog are just like us AB, not at all representative of the market. Also, "ads relevant to the Live community" sound exactly like the ads we have now, so there's no change. You're making something out of nothing and I really don't know why.

-Spenser

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

*sigh* Those signed up on MN's blog are just like us AB, not at all representative of the market. Also, "ads relevant to the Live community" sound exactly like the ads we have now, so there's no change. You're making something out of nothing and I really don't know why.

-Spenser

How can we know what the "market" thinks without

a) making them aware of these changes (which they may not be unless they know about these gaming sites/MN blog)

and

b) asking them about their opinions on ads on their 360

?

You're acting like you know what the market thinks, when no one can without some sort of survery/research/feedback poll.

There's general camps that get sided when it comes to advertisement, and you're seeing that with these online discussions about it. This is the best idea you'll get about what 360 owners and bystanders think with the feedback tools in place. Which is why MN replied on his blog thanking people for the feedback, he didn't just say "but you guys aren't the market, we don't care".

People aren't going to cancel their Live accounts over this, but it doesn't mean you have to sit sidelined and not give your opinions on the receiving of ads whilst paying for a subscription just because you like the service/Live itself.

[spenser.d]

^^^See, I'm fairly certain that most people in the market won't notice the changes and that's why there won't be a backlash. Most of the market isn't like us - they don't keep close watch on what's going on. MN said the only thing that's changing is that they're bringing Silverlight to the 360 for these ads. There aren't going to be noticeable changes.

I make assumptions about the market based on past changes and their effect on the market. In the past, there really hasn't been backlashes for anything Microsoft has done regarding the 360, even if there was on these forums or on MN's blog. That's because the general market doesn't give a damn about any of this stuff (and probably the fact that Microsoft has a pretty good track record of getting things right when it comes to the 360). You also can't pretend like you don't act like you know what the market does because you do it just as much as I do, and you seem to think that they're going to react like we do to everything when that's just not true.

-Spenser

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

^^^See, I'm fairly certain that most people in the market won't notice the changes and that's why there won't be a backlash. Most of the market isn't like us - they don't keep close watch on what's going on. MN said the only thing that's changing is that they're bringing Silverlight to the 360 for these ads. There aren't going to be noticeable changes.

I make assumptions about the market based on past changes and their effect on the market. In the past, there really hasn't been backlashes for anything Microsoft has done regarding the 360, even if there was on these forums or on MN's blog. That's because the general market doesn't give a damn about any of this stuff. You also can't pretend like you don't act like you know what the market does because you do it just as much as I do, and you seem to think that they're going to react like we do to everything when that's just not true.

-Spenser

I'm talking about the people we get feedback from online. When I said there would be a backlash, I meant around the internet, not in New York City center with boards and riots and soccer moms with SUVs.

Everyone is part of the market, did you notice how quickly MS got a clarification out from MN about this after news sites starting running articles about more ads and showing off unfavourable mockup pictures? The media is online based, the media are the ones who run articles on and cover our favourite consoles. They shape what people think and can do damage to companies reputations.

If there's one thing I love it's when people manipulate those that aren't on message boards to favour their argument because these people aren't expressing their thoughts in the same way we are, online.

I'm pretty sure some of us could go up to our less internet saavy friends and say MS are planning on bringing silverlight to the 360 for use with advertisements and they'd ask similar questions

a) probably first of all, wtf is silverlight

b) what do you mean by ads

c) what kind of ads

d) where will these ads be

?

It's just curiosity in regards to the announcement. Especially when the news articles are running quotes saying "regular ads".

[Sethos]

Well, you could guess the people opposed to it before even clicking the thread :rofl:

[HawkMan]

*sigh* Those signed up on MN's blog are just like us AB, not at all representative of the market. Also, "ads relevant to the Live community" sound exactly like the ads we have now, so there's no change. You're making something out of nothing and I really don't know why.

-Spenser

So you're new around here and have never met AB before... right ? :p

[spenser.d]

Whatever dude. You're still making something out of nothing. The changes aren't going to be very noticeable, if at all. The new ads aren't going to be any more invasive than the old ones and are going to be just as relevant, so I don't know what you're complaining about.

-Spenser

[Bhav]

Well, you could guess the people opposed to it before even clicking the thread :rofl:

Ditto for every thread in the MS and Sony forums lol

[Kalint]

I don't want ads but that ESPN ticker looks pretty sweet. :blink:

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

Well I hate the more ads too, whatever it means, but TBH Major Nelsons responses sounded like some canned marketing response, nothing genuine about it at all, so that scares me a bit more honestly, as I think he may have been fed that response.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Whatever dude. You're still making something out of nothing. The changes aren't going to be very noticeable, if at all. The new ads aren't going to be any more invasive than the old ones and are going to be just as relevant, so I don't know what you're complaining about.

-Spenser

I don't think anyone can be this confident till we see them, but I certainly hope so.

Silverlight will help make those ads a more organic part of the dashboard, like we’ve done with some of the NXE slots in the past.

You look at both parts of that response.

Silverlight will help make those ads a more organic part of the dashboard

Sounds like Silverlight will change the way the current ads work, more organic part of the dashboard (clearly says dashboard) hints at that. But what do they mean by more organic?

like we’ve done with some of the NXE slots in the past

NXE slots in the "past". It definitely sounds like they're going forward with a different approach, so we'll need to be the judge on how organic the new ads are compared to the old. If this means a change you cannot blame people for discussing it.