WTF is Apple Application Support?

[BajiRav]

:huh: I don't remember this being installed before. Is this something new in iTunes 9?

Apple is getting crazy with all the crap they install with iTunes these days :s I noticed this after I went back to uninstall Apple Software update which I had deselected during install but it installed anyway... Don't know why they even bother showing that as an option during install.

[hdood]

  Ricardo Gil said:

So does Windows allow you to open iTunes when an iPod is inserted?

Yes.

  Ricardo Gil said:

Does it support Bonjour? No?

No, Windows doesn't "support" Bonjour, as it has its own services that do the same thing. It's not needed by 99.9% of users, and offers them nothing other than security risks.

  Ricardo Gil said:

Then what standard services are you talking about?

Everything, from user interfaces to multimedia to networking.

[Ricardo Gil]

  hdood said:

Yes.

LOL. I meant with a Windows built-in service. Not the one Apple installs... so it's a NO.

  hdood said:

No, Windows doesn't "support" Bonjour, as it has its own services that do the same thing. It's not needed by 99.9% of users, and offers them nothing other than security risks.

Really, what services?

  hdood said:

Everything, from user interfaces to multimedia to networking.

So, you don't know what you're talking about I see.

[BajiRav]

  Ricardo Gil said:

Really, what services?

UPnP

[ViperAFK]

  Ricardo Gil said:

Same reason why every Windows version comes with more services, it's called added functionality.

That only happens if you have previously installed Safari. On a clean Windows7 install it's unchecked by default.

pretty much every other media player out there doesn't need to run a **** ton of extra services/processes all the time even when the media player isnt running. Its called bloat and poor programming. You should have the option of not installing these services at all if you don't need those features, and they should need a bunch of extra services in the first place.

  Ricardo Gil said:

So does Windows allow you to open iTunes when an iPod is inserted? Does it support Bonjour? No?

Then what standard services are you talking about?

Umm they could easily use the autoplay menu when you plug in the ipod in and add "open with itunes" as an option.

[Stup0t]

I have stopped using Itunes and gone for WMP and MGTEK plugin that allows WMP to sync my ipod. I just dont like the dull grey GUI and album art is a pane as well. Not bashing apply just I would like a choice at the end of the day.

[hdood]

  Ricardo Gil said:

LOL. I meant with a Windows built-in service. Not the one Apple installs... so it's a NO.

So, you don't know what you're talking about I see.

"LOL"

"LOL"

"LOL"

How do you think Apple software works? It works by calling standard Windows APIs. It's not an actual service as in a process run by a service host, it's functionality offered by the OS. A hardware manufacturer could make Windows do anything they want in response to their device being plugged in.

  Ricardo Gil said:

Really, what services?

For which feature in particular? Windows supports all kinds of things, from standard Windows networking (which includes printers) to uPnP to iSCSI. Can you explain which services Bonjour offers that don't already exist in Windows?

  Ricardo Gil said:

So, you don't know what you're talking about I see.

I don't? Have you looked at the user interface of an Apple program? It looks and acts the way it does because Apple made their own GUI framework instead of using the Windows one. Same with multimedia. Quicktime is a multimedia framework that duplicates functionality that already exists in Windows. The Apple programs then use this, while other programs call the Windows alternatives directly.

[Ricardo Gil]

  hdood said:

How do you think Apple software works? It works by calling standard Windows APIs. It's not an actual service as in a process run by a service host, it's functionality offered by the OS. A hardware manufacturer could make Windows do anything they want in response to their device being plugged in.

... and to do so, it requires a running listener service. Next.

  hdood said:

For which feature in particular? Windows supports all kinds of things, from standard Windows networking (which includes printers) to uPnP to iSCSI. Can you explain which services Bonjour offers that don't already exist in Windows?

Bonjour is somewhat similar to uPnP, yet different. Windows does not support Bonjour, hence why iTunes needs to install it. Even Photoshop comes bundled with it.

  hdood said:

I don't? Have you looked at the user interface of an Apple program? It looks and acts the way it does because Apple made their own GUI framework instead of using the Windows one.

I didn't hear you rant over Adobe apps did I? Lots of applications use their own framework instead of the one Windows provides.

  hdood said:

Same with multimedia. Quicktime is a multimedia framework that duplicates functionality that already exists in Windows. The Apple programs then use this, while other programs call the Windows alternatives directly.

Every player besides the one that comes with Windows uses its own set of codecs.

[hdood]

  Ricardo Gil said:

... and to do so, it requires a running listener service. Next.

No, it does not. When the unit is plugged in, Windows loads its driver on-demand. You don't need any "listener service" to pull this off. Next.

  Ricardo Gil said:

Bonjour is somewhat similar to uPnP, yet different. Windows does not support Bonjour, hence why iTunes needs to install it. Even Photoshop comes bundled with it.

Yes, Windows doesn't support Bonjour because it is an Apple program. Windows has its own equivalents to all the functionality. I see that you can't answer what useful features Bonjour offers to 99.9% of Windows users (that get tricked into installing it). It just wastes CPU cycles and is a security risk.

  Ricardo Gil said:

I didn't hear you rant over Adobe apps did I? Lots of applications use their own framework instead of the one Windows provides.

No, because this isn't an Adobe thread. I wasn't aware that I had to list every single application and vendor in the universe that does things I don't like. I will remember that in the future.

  Ricardo Gil said:

Every player besides the one that comes with Windows uses its own set of codecs.

Quicktime is an entire multimedia framework, not just a codec. On Windows, a "codec" usually means a DirectShow filter, but this has no relevance to QuickTime because its a complete replacement for (among other things) DirectShow. Apple ported all their frameworks, from multimedia to user interfacing, to Windows, to make it easier to maintain the same software on two platforms. The user is the one that suffers because of this, as its what makes Apple software feel bloated and "weird".

[Kyang]

I'm still using an old "5.5" generation iPod, and I just use it for music. I have zero use for the videos, pictures, genius, and obviously, no use for Applications.

I usually uninstall everything else, Bonjour, and Apple mobile device support, leaving only iTunes. But now I can't uninstall this, "Apple Application support" despite having zero... um, application, for this extra thing, since when I removed it, iTunes wouldn't open anymore. :/ .

I plan on sticking with iTunes, and the iPod until the iPod runs into the ground, but still, I'm wondering if there's any way to remove this, "Application support" without breaking anything...

...Impossible?

[hdood]

Like I've suggested, it's probably some new library that is shared between all the Apple software. It might previously have been included with every one of them, and now refactored so there's only one copy. If this is the case, then obviously it can't be removed. It's not like you use the add/remove software control panel as the wallpaper anyway.

[Ricardo Gil]

  hdood said:

No, it does not. When the unit is plugged in, Windows loads its driver on-demand. You don't need any "listener service" to pull this off. Next.

:huh: I'm not talking about loading drivers. I think you lost track of the subject here.

  hdood said:

Yes, Windows doesn't support Bonjour because it is an Apple program. Windows has its own equivalents to all the functionality. I see that you can't answer what useful features Bonjour offers to 99.9% of Windows users (that get tricked into installing it). It just wastes CPU cycles and is a security risk.

:facepalm: Bonjour isn't just an Apple program... it's an open sourced cross platform protocol, developed by Apple. You should know why cross platform components are used in applications, so you can use them across all platforms. Are you expecting them to create a specific version for each OS they deploy in? I get more extra "garbage" just by installing Live Messenger than I do installing iTunes. And I don't even know what's going on in those services, because they're not open source.

  hdood said:

No, because this isn't an Adobe thread. I wasn't aware that I had to list every single application and vendor in the universe that does things I don't like. I will remember that in the future.

I called Adobe just to show you how all the things you "hate" are standard industry practice nowadays. Custom frameworks: Check, Extra services: Check, it's all there. So before you put the blame solely on Apple remember this: Don't hate the player, hate the game.

  hdood said:

Quicktime is an entire multimedia framework, not just a codec. On Windows, a "codec" usually means a DirectShow filter, but this has no relevance to QuickTime because its a complete replacement for (among other things) DirectShow. Apple ported all their frameworks, from multimedia to user interfacing, to Windows, to make it easier to maintain the same software on two platforms. The user is the one that suffers because of this, as its what makes Apple software feel bloated and "weird".

So what do you want exactly? Do you want Apple to just drop Quicktime on Windows?

Are you wary of a little competition? I'm sure Microsoft would love to have you on its board.

[azz0r_wugg]

Doesnt work for me :( Its installed to.

[Phantom Helix]

  azz0r_wugg said:

Doesnt work for me :( Its installed to.

Is your iPhone/iTouch on firmware 3.1?

[Elliott]

  hdood said:

Yes, Windows doesn't support Bonjour because it is an Apple program. Windows has its own equivalents to all the functionality. I see that you can't answer what useful features Bonjour offers to 99.9% of Windows users (that get tricked into installing it). It just wastes CPU cycles and is a security risk.

No, but I can tell you why Bonjour is in place. iTunes and Mac OS X have been using Bonjour since before UPnP was implemented in Windows. Why knock it out and replace it with a completely different protocol for one system just because some nerds know that's its taking 0.01% of one of their cores in a dual/quad/octo core system? Get over it. As for being a security risk, it only announces services that you want it to announce. Otherwise, it keeps your system hidden, just like UPnP. Woah, imagine that. If your install of Windows 7 has UPnP enabled, this is no more of a security risk than that is.