Datel suing Microsoft over Max Memory card lockout

By +Audioboxer
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thejohnnyq

Posted
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Honestly, it is Microsoft's system, and they can do what they want, and if you don't like it TUFF, don't get involved, don't buy the product. This is more or less a way to attack Microsoft and try to get some cash from them, nothing more.

Here are some standings that MS can use: (just saying)

DCMA - the company would have to reverse engineer to make this work.

CopyW/Patents - MS has thousands of patents, and the items violates one ore more

Open Fairness - MS has a process for licensing products as add-ons, not fair to others

Honestly, the only winners is the Lawyers. Should MS open this open, maybe, but honestly it doesn't affect me, and if I want to buy something that is not MS for my 360, I would purchase a licensed product anyway, (controllers, cables, power supplies, coolers, etc).

Why is it that when I plug in an unlicensed device to my iPhone, it tells me that it is not meant to work with this device and turns off the phone part? (Licensed Logitec speakers)

Veteran

bob_c_b

Posted
Posted
  Growled said:
That's not always true. Look at the DOJ and the EU rulings on Windows.

Not the same thing, no comparison at all. MS strong arming OEMs into only shipping PCs with Windows is a far cry from blocking 3rd party accessories.

Grand Master

+Audioboxer Subscriber²

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Can anyone tell me if these Datel memory cards were sold in retail? Or just online?

Issue is if it verges to being sold in retail (large chains like Best Buy/etc) there's maybe some sort of kickback for Datel to latch onto as goods consumers bought advertised as 360 memory cards all of a sudden stop working, then Datel receive complaints. That doesn't mean it'll be ruled for MS to unblock the memory cards, but Datel might still receive compensation. I really don't know enough about the American legal system, just tossing something out there I don't think anyone has brought up.

Either way I think this is the last generation you'll see consoles tied down to proprietary peripherals, aside from the controller. Sony/Nintendo are too open for MS to continue as closed off as they are.

Veteran

bob_c_b

Posted
Posted
  Audioboxer said:
Either way I think this is the last generation you'll see consoles tied down to proprietary peripherals, aside from the controller. Sony/Nintendo are too open for MS to continue as closed off as they are.

I see absolutely nothing that supports this statement, nor do I see N or Sony being all that "open" with their accessories. And just how closed is MS anyway, just searching one retailer....

Best Buy 360 Accessory Page.

I'd say Natal and the PS3 Sex Toy will usher in an era of even more "closed" environments.

Grand Master

+Audioboxer Subscriber²

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Posted (edited)
  bob_c_b said:
I see absolutely nothing that supports this statement, nor do I see N or Sony being all that "open" with their accessories. And just how closed is MS anyway, just searching one retailer....

Best Buy 360 Accessory Page.

I'd say Natal and the PS3 Sex Toy will usher in an era of even more "closed" environments.

You own a PS3 and you don't know what I'm talking about? :blink: The main issue is storage, Sony and Nintendo both offer you the ability to use whatever storage you want, MS don't. That's the costly one for most people, as storage this generation is key to supporting devices that can download games/video/music and hold your own files.

Disk space

Sony - Any hard drive you want

Nintendo - Any SD card you want

MS - Only MS hard drive or MS memory card (now that they've blocked Datel)

Internet connectivity

Sony - Ethernet/Wireless included

Nintendo - Wireless included/Ethernet addon

MS - Ethernet included/Wireless addon

Headsets

Sony - Any wired/wireless headset

Nintendo - Only Nintendo Speak or whatever that crap is called

MS - Wired headset included/Wireless headset MS only

Keyboards

Sony - Any USB or wireless keyboard/Chat pad addon

Nintendo - Unsure actually

MS - Any USB keyboard/Chat pad addon

Then as I've already pointed out you've got the Logitech steering wheels unable to work with the 360 because in order for them to do that they need to use MS' proprietary wireless technology and most likely shell out for the ability to. It's just IR, but MS stop it being able to work with anything that uses IR, it has to be MS' modified IR.

Natal and PS3 mote have absolutely nothing to do with 3rd party accessories...?

I seriously doubt you'll see $150 hard drives next generation, hard drives will be far too cheap to still be bending people over, especially if people are running around with the digital distribution bandwagon even more than now. And wireless? Scientific calculators will be coming with wireless as standard for ?10 by then, MS aren't leaving it out next gen. That's essentially why I said I doubt you'll see tied down peripheral support next generation, consoles are going to have to open up more if people expect to take all this multi-functionality Sony/MS/Nintendo are going after seriously.

Edited by Audioboxer
Grand Master

Richard Hammond

Posted
Posted

Bit underhanded of Microsoft, if they require 3rd party peripherals to be licenced then they should have done it 4 years ago, not wait then just block them all of a sudden. They should have given Datel x amount of time to officially licence their peripherals and pay royalties to Microsoft.

But we all know thats not the case, they just ban them outright so you have to pay over the odds for overpriced Microsoft peripherals.

Mentor

The_Wizard

Posted
Posted
  Audioboxer said:
Keyboards

Sony - Any USB or wireless keyboard/Chat pad addon

Nintendo - Unsure actually

MS - Any USB keyboard/Chat pad addon

I think Nintendo allow any USB keyboards, i've used a crappy old one and it worked fine so i'm guessing the majority at least are going to work.

Veteran

bob_c_b

Posted
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  Audioboxer said:
Natal and PS3 mote have absolutely nothing to do with 3rd party accessories...?

Nothing you listed shows any reason why any of these companies will change their current strategy except that it would make you feel better. I'm not saying I agree with how much MS charges for storage, but the marketplace has not forced them to change so I don't see next gen any miracle taking place. And don't use Sony's headset policy as a positive, PSN chat is a garbled mess thanks to people with $9 BT headsets with no noise reduction. Looking down accessries garuntees a minimum accepetable level of performance for all invovled, it's not necessarily all bad.

And for all the imagination you put into spinning any scrap of Sony news as a positive, I can't see how you don't see Natal and the PS3 dildo as more vendor lock in that will further limit the need or viability for 3rd party accessories. Sony and MS both have plans to extend their brands throughout your home and opening up the accessory market is of no benefit to either of them.

Contributor

Spysix

Posted
Posted
  Deacon Brown said:
Im lost here

Why would datel win this battle?

If M$ want you to only use there licences equipment with thier own 360, how can a company come a long and sue because M$ has stopped thier equipment from working on it?

Im not saying its good for M$ to do this but i don't get why they will win a case when its M$ own machine?

To this and other posts about M$ having the right. Sure they can, but then M$ would really have just created a microcosmic monopoly. Datel is sort of pointing that out that it isn't fair for Microsoft to throttle the market like that.

Grand Master

+Audioboxer Subscriber²

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  bob_c_b said:
Nothing you listed shows any reason why any of these companies will change their current strategy except that it would make you feel better. I'm not saying I agree with how much MS charges for storage, but the marketplace has not forced them to change so I don't see next gen any miracle taking place. And don't use Sony's headset policy as a positive, PSN chat is a garbled mess thanks to people with $9 BT headsets with no noise reduction. Looking down accessries garuntees a minimum accepetable level of performance for all invovled, it's not necessarily all bad.

And for all the imagination you put into spinning any scrap of Sony news as a positive, I can't see how you don't see Natal and the PS3 dildo as more vendor lock in that will further limit the need or viability for 3rd party accessories. Sony and MS both have plans to extend their brands throughout your home and opening up the accessory market is of no benefit to either of them.

I don't care if people are too cheap to buy something better than a $9 BT headset, I'll mute them if I have to or tell them their headset blows. I care what comes out of my wallet - It just so happens I bought the official headset, well I bought Socom and it came with it, Sony have bundled it with Warhawk and Socom so far.

However if I had a good BT headset in the house, and didn't buy Socom, or my current was better than Sony's, I'd be using it.

What would be better is for Sony to bundle a headset, then there is a standard, but just because you bundle a headset doesn't mean you need to close your console off. Bundled headset and console open to other headsets, there you go, there's your standard you want that badly, and to boot you get freedom of choice. That was a missed opportunity for sure.

I totally disagree with you, 3rd parties are not creating anything like Natal/Sony Mote, what are you smoking? Hardware on those sorts of levels needs to come from base camp. And call me out on the positive spin all you want, but anyone who can spin closed off systems and inflated accessory prices into something positive for the consumer is doing a better job than me.

Mentor

BetaAddict

Posted
Posted
  HawkMan said:
quick question, but do you really think writing MS with a $ makes you cool or something ?

I just hate when people do this. It was funny a few years ago when ms really did deserve it. But given how they have gotten their mojo back and creating awesome products like Windows 7, ZuneHD, and Office 2010, using the $ just shows immaturity.

  Shaun_ said:
A lot of people jump to Apples defence for locking their software with their hardware, Why can't Microsoft lock their hardware to only be able to use their peripherals?

By no means am I defending Apple in locking their products up in-house. I was just using it mearly as an example of why Datel does not have a chance even to speak in front of a jury. In fact, Apple is indisputably the worst known offender of closed system products and limiting consumer choice. If there ever comes a time where closed platforms are questioned, start with Apple. But as it is right now, it is all just business and maximizing profits within the current laws.

Grand Master

Subject Delta

Posted
Posted

Microsoft have no good reason to lock out third party hardware, and their claims of preventing cheating are more than flimsy. People shouldn't be forced to pay licensing fees either, they are essentially making 3rd party peripherals for a computer, just because the computer is a gaming console, that shouldn't allow anti-competitive behaviour.

When things like this are done by Apple and Sony they get slammed for it, Microsoft deserve to get slammed for this as well.

Grand Master

gigapixels Veteran

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Posted
  Frank Fontaine said:
Microsoft have no good reason to lock out third party hardware, and their claims of preventing cheating are more than flimsy. People shouldn't be forced to pay licensing fees either, they are essentially making 3rd party peripherals for a computer, just because the computer is a gaming console, that shouldn't allow anti-competitive behaviour.

When things like this are done by Apple and Sony they get slammed for it, Microsoft deserve to get slammed for this as well.

I wasn't saying it was right or that Microsoft had a good reason for it. But legally they are allowed to lock their hardware to only allow licensed peripherals, which is what they've done. Datel can't win this case because Microsoft hasn't done anything illegal.

I do believe Microsoft is being stupid about it, but they haven't done anything legally wrong.

Rising Star

happymonkey

Posted
Posted
  Audioboxer said:
Keyboards

Sony - Any USB or wireless keyboard/Chat pad addon

Nintendo - Unsure actually

MS - Any USB keyboard/Chat pad addon

That's not totally accurate - MS will NOT allow USB keyboards or mice to be used to control games - Sony lets the devs decide - just look at Unreal Tournment 3...

Also, it's important to note that MS uses proprietary technology, whilst Sony uses common industry standards, like Bluetooth and WIFI, for their device and network features...

Grand Master

Ci7

Posted
Posted
  Digix said:
How about just ask the European Union regulators to sort it out whether it's ok or not ? :rolleyes: lol

OMG!

just wait untail EU sum it up

bundling controller = illegal , pay 50mil euro

bundling wireless = illegal , since that would be unfair for genric makers another 10mil

..etc etc :p

Mentor

S00N3R FR3AK

Posted
Posted
  Ci7 said:
OMG!

just wait untail EU sum it up

bundling controller = illegal , pay 50mil euro

bundling wireless = illegal , since that would be unfair for genric makers another 10mil

..etc etc :p

bundling OS = illegal, pay another 50mil and let sony and nintendo put their stuff on there.(because its only bad if its MS)

Community Regular

Deacon Brown

Posted
Posted
  Richard Hammond said:
Bit underhanded of Microsoft, if they require 3rd party peripherals to be licenced then they should have done it 4 years ago, not wait then just block them all of a sudden. They should have given Datel x amount of time to officially licence their peripherals and pay royalties to Microsoft.

But we all know thats not the case, they just ban them outright so you have to pay over the odds for overpriced Microsoft peripherals.

I fail to see how this is a underhanded tactic of M$?

Datel have not paid M$ or what ever they are meant to do, so they can produce 3rd party equipment for the 360.

Im sure everyone knows they have to pay Datel choose not to and as a result have failed equipment.

Its like saying you know your not meant to drive down a 30mph road at 50mph, but just because there is no sign you should not get a ticket for it if you get court. (i think i made sense with that :laugh: )

Community Regular

Deacon Brown

Posted
Posted
  Spysix said:
To this and other posts about M$ having the right. Sure they can, but then M$ would really have just created a microcosmic monopoly. Datel is sort of pointing that out that it isn't fair for Microsoft to throttle the market like that.

???

So it?s not fair for M$ to want you to only use there add-on equipment or licensed 3rd party equipment for their hardware?

Them having 3rd party licensed equipment has given you a variety already.

I really fail to see your point, In fact I do see what you?re getting at but it does not make any sense at all.

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