Windows 7 tempting a Mac user

[.Neo]

Office 2008 for Mac suite from Microsoft is very average (behind Windows),

Microsoft Office 2011 is set to improve this later this year.

iWork '10 seems to be turning out to be yet another great disappointment (no bibliography functions, crappy templates)

You know this how exactly?

[rawr_boy81]

Microsoft Office 2011 is set to improve this later this year.

I've been waiting since the release of 2008 and quite honestly I am at the end of my tether; I wonder whether those in Microsoft's Mac devision are either just lazy or incompetent.

Oh, and when is MSN Messenger 8 going to arrive or is that just yet another thing I should be 'patient' for?

You know this how exactly?

No announcements at all regarding the feature set so one only assumes - no announcements, no features, no nothing.

If Apple want to be secret squirrel about it - great, but don't expect me to hang on waiting for them to finally divulged to the great unwashed masses as to the features they're finally going to add.

I look to the Windows world and there is Office 2010, Windows 7, Studio 2010 - and what do the us Mac users get? a Office 2011 with a user interface that looks like a pigs breakfast, an operating system that is riddled from top to bottom with bugs and features that should have been in there (OpenGL 3.2), updates taking too long to come out (10.6.3) that never address issues such as my laptop's fan and processor going to the max when recording a simple video with quicktime or my whole iMac locking up when compressing more than 2 videos at a time.

[buddhalishousboy]

I have been a long time Windows user - had a few macs here and there before until last year when I went 100% mac with my macbook pro and 24" imac. I do enjoy using them, but I just realized that I have spent a lot of money to do the EXACT same thing that I was doing on windows... Using OSX isn't a "revolutionary" experience -- it simply does what it is supposed to do. It seems as if being a mac user, you must be a patient person, because we must "wait" for everything to be released and then sometimes it is completely sub par with the windows counterpart.

that said - i bought Windows 7 when it came out and installed on my two desktops and notebook...and I have to say, microsoft got it right this time... it is very nice, no crashes, fast, responsive, etc....

i have been in the process of transferring all of my stuff to my windows computer, once I do, I am installing the full version of 7 on my mac and will be using that.... (i will leave osx in tact in case I wanna go back another time and revisit the "experience").

just my two cents.

PS: I do love the program Skitch on the mac --- is there a PC equivalent?

[rawr_boy81]

I have been a long time Windows user - had a few macs here and there before until last year when I went 100% mac with my macbook pro and 24" imac. I do enjoy using them, but I just realized that I have spent a lot of money to do the EXACT same thing that I was doing on windows... Using OSX isn't a "revolutionary" experience -- it simply does what it is supposed to do. It seems as if being a mac user, you must be a patient person, because we must "wait" for everything to be released and then sometimes it is completely sub par with the windows counterpart.

Agreed; for me Mac OS X over the years has become less and less compelling for me to use when compared to the first time I moved to Mac OS X. Back then it was competing against firstly Windows 2000 and secondly Windows XP. Neither of those operating systems wowed me in the same way that Mac OS X did at the time. Fast forward to today and there is absolutely no difference as far as 'features' to the end user between Windows 7 and Snow Leopard.

You are right about waiting and worse when it does arrive it is always behind on quality, slower and poorly optimised; the Flash plugin is the prime example. But not all of it is out of the control of Apple; I'm running Windows 7 right now on a MacBook white 2.4Ghz w/ 4GB RAM, 500GB Hard Disk and a GMA X3100 - I admit it isn't a speed demond but the difference between Windows 7 and Snow Leopard is almost like night and day. The GUI is faster, programmes load faster, applications are more responsive - I'm not saddled with having to use iTunes for my media library given the alternatives on Mac are horrible ports of Windows media players (aka Songbird being the best example).

that said - i bought Windows 7 when it came out and installed on my two desktops and notebook...and I have to say, microsoft got it right this time... it is very nice, no crashes, fast, responsive, etc....

i have been in the process of transferring all of my stuff to my windows computer, once I do, I am installing the full version of 7 on my mac and will be using that.... (i will leave osx in tact in case I wanna go back another time and revisit the "experience").

just my two cents.

PS: I do love the program Skitch on the mac --- is there a PC equivalent?

Windows 7 is Windows done right - but then again, who is the manager of that section? the former head of the Office team - what Windows needed as a application centric manager coming in and making the decisions that needed to be made - and it is paid off. The question now, since I love Windows 7 so much whether I should just go out and purchase Windows 7 and run it full time on my Mac instead of replacing the hardware entirely.

[Subject Delta]

Indirectly - I'm a long time PC user but am impartial over the PC vs Mac thing. I bought my GF a Macbook Pro last fall - just before Windows 7 was realeased to Technet. Since the install of Windows 7 on one of my notebooks, she tends to use that more than the Mac. I just asked her why and she said "because it's here..." :blink: - i looked at her again and asked "no really, why not use the Mac?" her reply in all it's simplicity "because i like it better...!"

She then proceeded to kick one of her heel slippers at me nearly taking off my head and stormed out and said "if you don't want me using it - i'll just go back to my Mac!!" :blink:

Thanks a lot OP and Mac... you just got me in **** :angry: !!

No really though - after explaining why i was asking all she pretty much said is that it "seems" faster and that Windows is more familiar and easier to use for her. The Mac was a friggin fashion accessory to all her other stuff and she openly admits to it. She wasn't really mad, we just play that way.

So there you have it.

No offence, but it sounds like your partner is the sensible one in that relationship. You should leave her to use whatever she feels comfortable with, and not nerd rage on her because you think one is better than the other.

[Serenity76]

OP, sounds like you just want a new toy to play with.

[buddhalishousboy]

Flash...ugh!

If there is ONE THING that drives me nuts with OSX, it is Flash.... You will be watching a video and then boom! lego character.... flash just crashed the browser!

[rawr_boy81]

OP, sounds like you just want a new toy to play with.

Nice, a comment from a person who is too lazy to read the full thread and all the reasons I am gravitating towards Windows 7.

[rawr_boy81]

Nice, a comment from a person who is too lazy to read the full thread and all the reasons I am gravitating towards Windows 7.

Side note, if 10.6.3 fixes many of the problems that I face then I'll pull me back from going to Windows 7. There is much reluctance on my part to change but Windows 7 is very tempting.

[Scorcho]

Side note, if 10.6.3 fixes many of the problems that I face then I'll pull me back from going to Windows 7. There is much reluctance on my part to change but Windows 7 is very tempting.

On a Mac the choice between Windows 7 and OSX isn't zero sum - you can do both and dual boot to your heart's content without much worry outside of NTFS read/write capability. This whole thread is harping on a false dilemma.

[rawr_boy81]

On a Mac the choice between Windows 7 and OSX isn't zero sum - you can do both and dual boot to your heart's content without much worry outside of NTFS read/write capability. This whole thread is harping on a false dilemma.

True, I've just gone back to Mac OS X after experimenting with Windows 7 for a big; a big apology to Serenity76 - you were right, I was enamoured with Windows 7 because of 'ooh, new, flash' but it has since worn off but Windows 7 does show some capacity for improvement to Windows 8 which will be interesting to watch; whether we'll finally see a movement to something consistent with the over all UI.

[genuine555]

To the OP :

why don't you use both for a while, and then deside which one pleases you most.

Either create a dualboot, or use a VM.

It's the logical solution when tempted to make a switch IMO.

[Serenity76]

True, I've just gone back to Mac OS X after experimenting with Windows 7 for a big; a big apology to Serenity76 - you were right, I was enamoured with Windows 7 because of 'ooh, new, flash' but it has since worn off but Windows 7 does show some capacity for improvement to Windows 8 which will be interesting to watch; whether we'll finally see a movement to something consistent with the over all UI.

Apology not necessary. Perhaps I was a bit abrupt with my comment, but I wasn't grasping why you'd want to completely switch platforms when you could simply buy Win7 and try it on your macs. Seemed as though you simply wanted something 'new', as opposed to really wanting to transition to Windows.

When it gets right down to it, Windows is still Windows. Better as 7 might be, it still is what it is, at the heart.

[rawr_boy81]

Apology not necessary. Perhaps I was a bit abrupt with my comment, but I wasn't grasping why you'd want to completely switch platforms when you could simply buy Win7 and try it on your macs. Seemed as though you simply wanted something 'new', as opposed to really wanting to transition to Windows.

When it gets right down to it, Windows is still Windows. Better as 7 might be, it still is what it is, at the heart.

True, but given the very sad state of Office 2011 I am rather pessimistic given how dependent I am on Office - iWorks is horrible and lacks bibliography functionality (Bookends and EndNote are equally crap), OpenOffice.org and Lotus Symphony lack the functionality I need (bibliography etc).

As for Windows 7, I enjoyed using it, but I think if there is ever an interesting it'll have to be when Windows 8 addresses the user interface inconsistencies and the poor state of Internet Explorer. I also have to admit that I've been spoiled by Apple; system wide dictionary, consistent user interface, and so on. I wonder how 10.7 will compare to 10.6 and Windows 8 once it is released. I don't want heaps of features - I just want things to work.

[TCA]

But i like Mac way better than any version of windows :)

Well that's your biased opinion on it, will there be facts to why? you really sound like a mac fanboy Anyways, to the OP if you feel you want to use windows 7 then it's really your own decision...have you given it any thought?

[Mike415]

True, but given the very sad state of Office 2011 I am rather pessimistic given how dependent I am on Office - iWorks is horrible and lacks bibliography functionality (Bookends and EndNote are equally crap), OpenOffice.org and Lotus Symphony lack the functionality I need (bibliography etc).

As for Windows 7, I enjoyed using it, but I think if there is ever an interesting it'll have to be when Windows 8 addresses the user interface inconsistencies and the poor state of Internet Explorer. I also have to admit that I've been spoiled by Apple; system wide dictionary, consistent user interface, and so on. I wonder how 10.7 will compare to 10.6 and Windows 8 once it is released. I don't want heaps of features - I just want things to work.

Curious, what didnt work in Windows 7 then?

[rawr_boy81]

Curious, what didnt work in Windows 7 then?

1) I like the menu at the top of the screen along with other Mac'isms - it is something that I am used to and prefer (personal preference rather than empirical statement of fact).

2) Lack of consistency when it comes to keyboard short cuts - why can't I quit and application with the same sort cut? why do some have ctrl-x others have ctrl-q, then others don't even have a short cut at all (there are more).

3) Lack of consistency when it comes to user interface - why does everything look different? why can't Microsoft standardise on one particular user interface? why is live essentials, as good as it maybe, lack a consistent user interface? call it OCD but looks are just as important as functionality.

4) Key software missing from the operating system, for example, no webcam software included with Windows - am I really asking too much to create my own videos on Windows using my webcam?

5) I've invested too much into Mac so far, I have iPod Touch (iTunes is horrible on Windows thus I'd prefer to replace it with an MTP or MSC device), EyeTV, Office 2008, Creative Suite CS4, iLife 09, Snow Leopard and so forth thus I found there really isn't sufficient 'superiority' of Windows 7 to justify the disruptive move.

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

1) I like the menu at the top of the screen along with other Mac'isms - it is something that I am used to and prefer (personal preference rather than empirical statement of fact).

You can move it.

2) Lack of consistency when it comes to keyboard short cuts - why can't I quit and application with the same sort cut? why do some have ctrl-x others have ctrl-q, then others don't even have a short cut at all (there are more).

ALT+F4

3) Lack of consistency when it comes to user interface - why does everything look different? why can't Microsoft standardise on one particular user interface? why is live essentials, as good as it maybe, lack a consistent user interface? call it OCD but looks are just as important as functionality.

100% agree

4) Key software missing from the operating system, for example, no webcam software included with Windows - am I really asking too much to create my own videos on Windows using my webcam?

Doesn't Windows Live Movie Maker do this?? It's a free download, meant as an optional addon.

5) I've invested too much into Mac so far, I have iPod Touch (iTunes is horrible on Windows thus I'd prefer to replace it with an MTP or MSC device), EyeTV, Office 2008, Creative Suite CS4, iLife 09, Snow Leopard and so forth thus I found there really isn't sufficient 'superiority' of Windows 7 to justify the disruptive move.

Makes perfect sense.

[rawr_boy81]

You can move it.

Move what? I am talking about the menu bar at the top of the screen rather than each application having its own menu bar.

Doesn't Windows Live Movie Maker do this?? It's a free download, meant as an optional addon.

Nope, I had to download Expression Studio 3 via Dreamspark to do that - but it is an over kill for what I want to do.

[rawr_boy81]

Just a brief update.

Ok, still using it and really starting to like it; it looks like after a couple of weeks using Windows 7 I'm really impressed; when Wave 4 and Office 2010 is released in June, Visual Studio 2010 would have been released, by November I'll be all set to make the leap to the PC world :)

The big question is about purchasing a laptop like an X201 thinkpad which is super portable.

[9UnknownMen]

Yup, all it takes is time. One can't make a honest snap judgment on any OS especially one as large and varied as Windows and it's eco system of software.

I've invested too much into Mac so far, I have iPod Touch (iTunes is horrible on Windows thus I'd prefer to replace it with an MTP or MSC device), EyeTV, Office 2008, Creative Suite CS4, iLife 09, Snow Leopard and so forth thus I found there really isn't sufficient 'superiority' of Windows 7 to justify the disruptive move.

That's essentially the lock in you have to overcome and one of the reasons why Windows remains so dominant. Honestly most of the examples you've listed are inferior on the Mac platform and tend to cost more. iTunes is a bloated travesty no doubt especially since the majority of iPhone/Touch customers are windows users. And if you miss "eyeTV" I do feel genuinely sad because the native media center system in 7 is the gold standard and actually gorgeous to boot. So is Office 2k7 compared to 2k8 and of course you won't find a x64 CS release from Adobe on any other platform. The list goes on but the toughest part is reinvesting in all that new software. That why 'switching' isn't as easy as those Apple ad's make it out to be especially since it's much more most costlier going from the PC to the Mac camp. Cloud Computing will hopefully get us to the point where this is all moot one day.

After this exercise maybe you should give Linux a shot. :p

[rawr_boy81]

Yup, all it takes is time. One can't make a honest snap judgment on any OS especially one as large and varied as Windows and it's eco system of software.

True - there are a lot of crap software vendors but at the same time the big vendors who do target Mac and Windows, you'll always find (I've yet to find an exception to this rule) that the Windows version will always be better quality, better optimised, better support and a wider variety of products available. That is the biggest, most compelling reason why I am looking at Windows once again.

When I made the move to Mac OS X it was back at the time when I could quite easily justify the reduced software selection and poorer optimisation with the upswing of a better (subjective) operating system. Now that Windows 7 has addressed almost all the issues that I've whined about since Windows 95 - it's able to redeem itself as a viable desktop for myself.

That's essentially the lock in you have to overcome and one of the reasons why Windows remains so dominant. Honestly most of the examples you've listed are inferior on the Mac platform and tend to cost more. iTunes is a bloated travesty no doubt especially since the majority of iPhone/Touch customers are windows users. And if you miss "eyeTV" I do feel genuinely sad because the native media center system in 7 is the gold standard and actually gorgeous to boot.

The reason why I love the EyeTV was the software was so easily to use even if it were a heap of crap when compared to the bundled software included with Windows. I've since sold it off, however, since moving I no longer use it and hadn't so for over 6 months.

As for the iPod Touch - I've sold it off too and used the money to pay down my overdraft so that I am now debt free :) I am looking at getting an X-FI2 which has drag and drop support although the 32GB Flash Android based Archos looks really good which supports MTP and MSC which makes it perfect for Windows.

The amount of choice when running Windows makes me giddy with delight lol

So is Office 2k7 compared to 2k8 and of course you won't find a x64 CS release from Adobe on any other platform. The list goes on but the toughest part is reinvesting in all that new software. That why 'switching' isn't as easy as those Apple ad's make it out to be especially since it's much more most costlier going from the PC to the Mac camp. Cloud Computing will hopefully get us to the point where this is all moot one day.

For me I can do a cross grade for CS4 but then again I bought it on an academic licence; When I sell my iMac I'll include it with the tablet etc. which leaves me wondering about getting a copy of Adobe CS5 before I leave university at the end of the year. At least I know in the case of the Windows world Adobe seems to make a decent effort when it comes to their software and Flash plugin.

Office 2010 will be released by the time I buy a PC laptop and desktop which will be so far ahead that Office 2011 will be a giant joke. Add to that the lack of video functionality within Windows Live Messenger, the lack of feature parity between Office and the Windows version of Office - there are a mountain of compelling reasons on casual observance of the Windows ecosystem versus the Mac ecosystem.

After this exercise maybe you should give Linux a shot. :p

I've already given Linux and quite honestly it doesn't do what I want - I need Creative Suite, Microsoft Office and hardware support that is full and complete and no subject to volunteer whims of whether the driver is maintained or based on what feedback users have given on forums and wiki's.