GH Moderation: The concept of "Home Turf"

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I have planted the concept of "Home Turf" into the heads of some of the new GH and Global moderators.

Basically it means that the Sony Console forum is the home turf of Neowin's PS3 owners and that the Microsoft Console forum is the home turf of Neowin's X360 owners. I suppose you can figure out the rest.

If a PS3 owner is going to say something rude/disrespectful about another console (say the Xbox) it would be best if they did not do that in the home territory of that console (in this case the Microsoft Console forum).

Likewise, if a X360 owner is going to say something rude/disrespectful about another console (say the PS3) it would be best if they did not do that in the home territory of that console (in this case the Sony Console forum).

Again, the same applies to Nintendo and others.

Why?

The home turf of a console should be a place where the owners of that hardware can relax and discuss the merits of their console free of overt trolls. If that person chooses to leave the sanctuary of their own home turf then they should be prepared to read more negative stuff about what they own. Their cloak of protection +1 no longer applies. This effort is specifically engineered to reduce wandering trolls from entering into hostile lands and then picking fights with the local denizens.

That doesn't mean that you can never be caught trolling on your own home turf (even with a cloak of protection you can still be hit on a natural 20) and that you can't ever say anything remotely negative but the criteria will be stronger in some cases than in others and that will depend on whether you are in your home turf or not.

This is a bit of an experiment and I'd like to hear some useful feedback on this. If your feedback is more critical then send it to me as a PM and I'll post it in the moderation forum (that way you don't need to hold back).

Edit:

To be clear, this doesn't mean that you could never say anything negative about another console. It just means that you would need to try to be slightly more polite and respectful when visiting somebody else's home turf than you could get away with at home.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Fred Derf

[Vice]

Sounds like a good idea to me. Where does the PC stand in this since all owners of Nintendo, PS3 and XBOX360's will have PCs ?

[thechronic]

As much as you are entitled to your own opinion, i entirely disagree with your logic. It allows for biased, one-sided views and that is not good for any debate. It almost renders Neowin's forums entirely pointless.

For Example; A Playstation owner complains about the Other OS Fiasco. Where shall i go now?

Another Example; A Guest or member wishes to see the opinions of others on for example 'An Xbox 360'. Where will this person go? To the Xbox 360 forum. On visiting the Xbox 360 Neowin Forum he discovers that there is no issues with the console, nobody dislikes it and the prices are perfect.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Sounds like a good idea to me. Where does the PC stand in this since all owners of Nintendo, PS3 and XBOX360's will have PCs ?

I suppose it would be neutral ground for most. If there are evangelical PC gamers then that would be their home turf. To be honest, I'm not sure that evangelical PC gamers are often discussed as a problem group.

[Azusa]

Sounds like a good idea to me. Where does the PC stand in this since all owners of Nintendo, PS3 and XBOX360's will have PCs ?

on PCs we have enough issues with the civil war AKA fanatics of one game hating on fanatics of another.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Not too fond of this, I think moderators just need to be harder around this section rather than just cleaning up arguments and/or ignoring them with little punishment.

Also instead of just bumping warning ratings as well, lengthy post suspensions go down a treat in here, it's the only way to really make anyone learn outside of outright banning.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

As much as you are entitled to your own opinion, i entirely disagree with your logic. It allows for biased, one-sided views and that is not good for any debate. It almost renders Neowin's forums entirely pointless.

For Example; A Playstation owner complains about the Other OS Fiasco. Where shall i go now?

Well, Neowin was not designed to be a no-holds-barred survival of the fittest forum (although Gamers Hangout does seem to get like that from time to time). We would like to encourage respectful discussion and as long as people are afraid of starting topics because they might get attacked by the haters then we can't do what we want to do.

A Playstation owner that wants to discuss the Other OS Fiasco could leave their home turf and post in the forum of another console but they would need to be slightly more polite and respectful there then they could get away with at home.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Not too fond of this, I think moderators just need to be harder around this section rather than just cleaning up arguments and/or ignoring them with little punishment.

Also instead of just bumping warning ratings as well, lengthy post suspensions go down a treat in here, it's the only way to really make anyone learn outside of outright banning.

The problem with this approach is staff burnout in GH is enormous. I'm trying to make moderation of GH easier. Currently it is one of the hardest areas of the site to moderate. While I don't spend much time here myself because I don't know much about consoles and the PC games that I play are often 5 years obsolete I do have a fairly go idea what they go through based on my experiences moderating RWI (the other hard to moderate section of Neowin).

As I said before:

"It's one of those jobs that you only know you're doing well when both groups hate you for opposite reasons."

If we could make GH easier to moderate then we'd get more consistent moderation. Then we could do those suspensions or whatever is required.

[thechronic]

Well, Neowin was not designed to be a no-holds-barred survival of the fittest forum (although Gamers Hangout does seem to get like that from time to time). We would like to encourage respectful discussion and as long as people are afraid of starting topics because they might get attacked by the haters then we can't do what we want to do.

A Playstation owner that wants to discuss the Other OS Fiasco could leave their home turf and post in the forum of another console but they would need to be slightly more polite and respectful there then they could get away with at home.

I think you are missing me point. Anybody with a good level of maturity should be able to debate something properly without resorting to personal remarks. Granted, this is a skill that some clearly lack, but that is not the problem of the majority of good members here who can discuss things properly. I actually enjoy a good debate, i think it is healthy and should be encouraged. There is not enough of it in this world.

If i choose to discuss the Other OS fiasco, i should be entitled to do so in the Playstation forum and in such a scenario i would hope to hear the opinions of my fellow playstation owners and the non owners alike. If the majority of comments regarding this were positive, i think i'd be very suprised.

[Spookie]

This effort is specifically engineered to reduce wandering trolls from entering into hostile lands and then picking fights with the local denizens.

Can I troll everyone then?

*runs*

If we could make GH easier to moderate then we'd get more consistent moderation. Then we could do those suspensions or whatever is required.

Follow the gaf example. Troll and get kick/banned for a week. Shouldn't need this segregation because some need to defend their console like it was their woman.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I think you are missing me point. Anybody with a good level of maturity should be able to debate something properly without resorting to personal remarks. Granted, this is a skill that some clearly lack, but that is not the problem of the majority of good members here who can discuss things properly. I actually enjoy a good debate, i think it is healthy and should be encouraged. There is not enough of it in this world.

If i choose to discuss the Other OS fiasco, i should be entitled to do so in the Playstation forum and in such a scenario i would hope to hear the opinions of my fellow members ranging from positive ones to negative.

This new approach would not affect you then. Anyone who can participate in a healthy respectful debate should have nothing to fear. This is really aimed at wandering trolls. I'm talking about raising the bar for trolling behaviour only slightly and only when they leave their home turf.

[Richard Hammond]

*edit* nevermind

[thechronic]

Can I troll everyone then?

*runs*

Technically you would have to troll the Xbox 360 Forums twice as much as the Playstation 3 ones.

[goji]

Having just read a lengthy report comparing the current US Afghan initiative (COIN) to the Star Wars universe, I'm looking forward to the rebels who'll put aside this concept of home turf co-habitation and strike out at the console death star which will end the security imbalance once and for all.

Or maybe I should simply stop reading sci-fi political reports which mirror modern affairs like those found on Neowin :p

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

So I own all 3 consoles, add a custom built PC just for gaming, and as such I feel at any time I should be able to say whatever I want, even if it is negative, about any of the consoles I own.

The way I see it, I can talk negatively about a console, as long as I do so in a respectful manner towards others. I honestly feel it should be irrelevant if I am "disrespectful" towards a piece of plastic with components in it. Translation: If people cannot take something negative being said about their preferred console of choice, than I believe the issue resolves around their allegiance to said console, not what may or may not be said about it. IMO they are taking it to far. Meaning I just do not see how or why they would take it personal if and when someone talks about "their" console. They did not make the console, they just own it.

So while I more than anyone understand why this experiment is being implemented, I just feel it is catering to those few people who confuse something negative being said about their console as something negative being said about them. I feel it is unfair to the rest of us who realize that a console is just indeed a console and it does not define us as individuals.

Now with that said, I do know there are some individuals who have made a name for themselves so to speak for being a crusader of one console or the other. I guess that is their right, but at the same time why should other members suffer for their actions is the way I see it.

[acnpt]

I think it's a good idea, as long as it stops trolls but allows valid criticisms

[Fred Derf Veteran]

So while I more than anyone understand why this experiment is being implemented, I just feel it is catering to those few people who confuse something negative being said about their console as something negative being said about them. I feel it is unfair to the rest of us who realize that a console is just indeed a console and it does not define us as individuals.

Now with that said, I do know there are some individuals who have made a name for themselves so to speak for being a crusader of one console or the other. I guess that is their right, but at the same time why should other members suffer for their actions is the way I see it.

This is more about giving moderators another tool against the crusaders and allowing the normal members to just enjoy the site. Usually it is pretty easy to spot the crusaders.

[thechronic]

This new approach would not affect you then. Anyone who can participate in a healthy respectful debate should have nothing to fear. This is really aimed at wandering trolls. I'm talking about raising the bar for trolling behaviour only slightly and only when they leave their home turf.

That is not what you have said.

If a PS3 owner is going to say something negative about another console (say the Xbox) it would be best if they did not do that in the home territory of that console (in this case the Microsoft Console forum).

It doesnt sound like a troll only rule to me. That however is just my opinion. The reason i am making a 'fuss' is because Neowin is one of the best forums there is and this rule will only serve to damage it.

[goji]

This new approach would not affect you then. Anyone who can participate in a healthy respectful debate should have nothing to fear. This is really aimed at wandering trolls. I'm talking about raising the bar for trolling behaviour only slightly and only when they leave their home turf.

So in essence we are creating a database from the larger Neowin database of known GH trolls who, if in restricted (without visas, ie a registered console) area can be pulled over and asked for official papers (console gamertag) by local officials and arrested (banned)? Sounds a bit like Arizona; illegal consol-ites are not welcome!

Sorry Fred, today I can't help it. The parallels are to entertaining! Ok, going outside to catch some sun.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

That is not what you have said.

I should re-write that then. I didn't mean for it to be so strongly worded. I'm thinking on the fly here (although I've been mulling over the concept for the past few days).

Edit:

I don't want to give the idea that you are free to say something rude/disrespectful about another console in your own home turf but something slightly trollish would be better there than in somebody else's home turf.

So in essence we are creating a database from the larger Neowin database of known GH trolls who, if in restricted (without visas, ie a registered console) area can be pulled over and asked for official papers (console gamertag) by local officials and arrested (banned)? Sounds a bit like Arizona; illegal consol-ites are not welcome!

Sorry Fred, today I can't help it. The parallels are to entertaining! Ok, going outside to catch some sun.

Yes, these are not the forum trolls you are looking for. I get it.

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

Totally agree with this way of moderating, It's how i will be doing it. Any questions, Give me a shout ;)

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Well I therefore think a better idea would be to restrict certain members to certain forums, rather than every member worry about where they stick their feet. If the rule is indeed to weed out trolls, not those just wanting a respectful discussion.

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

This is more about giving moderators another tool against the crusaders and allowing the normal members to just enjoy the site. Usually it is pretty easy to spot the crusaders.

Fair enough. If that is the ultimate goal, then I can only see it being a good thing. I just hope people do not start pointing towards this initiative when it is uncalled for, as I can see this being misinterpreted by certain people and them crying foul whenever something is said they may not like for whatever reason. So I just hope it is not abused is all, as if it is, it has the potential to really stifle conversation.

I, along with others, do know first hand sometimes there are pages and pages of off topic conversation based on one or two people coming in and specifically looking to cause a ruckus, so if this prevents that, that could only be a good thing.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Well I therefore think a better idea would be to restrict certain members to certain forums, rather than every member worry about where they stick their feet. If the rule is indeed to weed out trolls, not those just wanting a respectful discussion.

Yeah, that a good idea too but there are technical reasons why this is difficult. We already have a Restricted (Gamers) Mask and, in theory, we could create one for every subforum but this adds to the complexity of the administration.

Fair enough. If that is the ultimate goal, then I can only see it being a good thing. I just hope people do not start pointing towards this initiative when it is uncalled for, as I can see this being misinterpreted by certain people and them crying foul whenever something is said they may not like for whatever reason. So I just hope it is not abused is all, as if it is, it has the potential to really stifle conversation.

I, along with others, do know first hand sometimes there are pages and pages of off topic conversation based on one or two people coming in and specifically looking to cause a ruckus, so if this prevents that, that could only be a good thing.

If it stifles discussions then we'll have to tweak, modify or scrap this initiative because that is the opposite to our goal.

[goji]

I maybe wrong, but I don't think the majority of members have anything to be concerned about. This seems like a direct extension or rather a re articulation of current GH's intolerance policy.