GH Moderation: The concept of "Home Turf"


Recommended Posts

Why not force members with a history of conflicts on each others ignore list and enforce it; no speaking or contacting each other. That means we won't have to tread lightly all of a sudden in sub-forums for consoles we actually own

and we might bring down all the bickering and pointless arguments. I mean, this is for the 'heavy hitter' cases so to speak, not something that should be flung around.

Technically you would have to troll the Xbox 360 Forums twice as much as the Playstation 3 ones.

Ugh, sounds like more work! :p

Yeah, that a good idea too but there are technical reasons why this is difficult. We already have a Restricted (Gamers) Mask and, in theory, we could create one for every subforum but this adds to the complexity of the administration.

It may well do that but how many minutes of the day do you think you are going to loose with this rather open ended system? I'm all for cleaning up neowin, because if we're being honest. The GH has been rather stagnant of new members for some time. The last new member we received in here, from what I remember, was back in Nov? Since then the forum has slowly started to turn in to what feels like a selective RSS news feed with occasional official topics. It's kind of depressing flicking between GAF and here.

Now while I believe this is somewhat the fault so some inconsistent moderation- I'm still on 0% and I believe there have been some moments in the past when I've been a right dick and deserved a warning. As well as some people on here who should have been banned years ago. We go to the other end of the spectrum where Andrew and I will start being abrasive with each other, always with a wink and a nod. Then we refresh the page and see "Thread Cleaned".

Now it's not fair to blame this all on the mods. We don't expect you to know everyones traits and the cliques. A community is only as good as the sum of it's parts and in that respect we've been a bit limp. We're not exactly friendly to junior members and it all goes a bit deliverance in here when we see someone new. It goes to my previous points before, often we can go for a week with only very flame bait news posts on the front page and bumped official threads which aren't exactly easy to jump in to for new members. With opinions already made and a full debate underway on the pros and cons of game mechanics.

I know I've gone off on a MASSIVE tangent. But what I'm trying to say in around about way is: Unless we agree to some massive foundation shaking changes-old habits will continue to surface and die hard. We could at least do with limiting certain members to only reply to threads in sub forums. As I'm often seeing some truly bonfire-esq news links being posted in Microsoft/Sony/Ninty sub forums which only need a spark before the thing needs an entire fire crew to put out.

Disclaimer: I'm not singling this post out to attack anyone. It's critical of everyone, even my self! So don't take it personally.

edit: Expanded on a few points.

So wait... then what about news? Negative PS3 news goes into the 360 section? This is just promoting anti-X console behavior rather than having these just segregated subjects. On top of it this will confuse newer members. I don't like this at all.

  • Like 2

Sounds like an all right idea, if it works out in the end and doesn't just stifle perfectly valid opinions, I don't even like coming in here most of the time because some people can't get along some of the time.

Just because people have a preference doesn't mean they automatically hate on a different platform, and as I have always said, its not about what is being said, but the way some people go around with their opinions assuming they are right, but also knowingly writing something that will start a conflict with some members.

You can get a point across just as well but by writing it respectfully towards others.

This "subliminally" just suggests that somebody not on their "own turf" knows nothing about what they are discussing. Hence giving people on that "home turf" a reason to jump down their throat and discard their opinion

Yeah I know it's not meant to be that way, but everybody here KNOWS that's how it will be.

Segregation is never a good thing... There is A LOT more bad that can come of this than good.

@Escelade_GT: I agree completely. This will just make "territory" for both sides and basically separate the two communities in a way that makes their own forum "more important" than the other. Anything post in there that is negative in the slightest of ways will be jumped on and flamed because they can be less wary" in their "home turf".

As much as you are entitled to your own opinion, i entirely disagree with your logic. It allows for biased, one-sided views and that is not good for any debate. It almost renders Neowin's forums entirely pointless.

For Example; A Playstation owner complains about the Other OS Fiasco. Where shall i go now?

Another Example; A Guest or member wishes to see the opinions of others on for example 'An Xbox 360'. Where will this person go? To the Xbox 360 forum. On visiting the Xbox 360 Neowin Forum he discovers that there is no issues with the console, nobody dislikes it and the prices are perfect.

I agree with what you are saying in principle, but in practice, Fred Derf has the right idea.

The same should be applied to the Apple, Windows, and Linux forums as well IMO.

...

We go to the other end of the spectrum where Andrew and I will start being abrasive with each other, always with a wink and a nod. Then we refresh the page and see "Thread Cleaned".

...

A lot of things appear differently to people out of the loop. Unless those friendly jibes between buddies are clearly marked with emoticons or something similar we'll tend to clean them out so as to not give other members the wrong idea. It would be easy for casual readers to think that we're allowing personal attacks and that may encourage them to post their own personal attacks on members who they are not on friendly terms with.

So wait... then what about news? Negative PS3 news goes into the 360 section? This is just promoting anti-X console behavior rather than having these just segregated subjects. On top of it this will confuse newer members. I don't like this at all.

News about a PS3 (negative or not) should go in the Sony Console setting. Just be advised that there will be a lower threshold of trolling allowed so keep it respectful.

The same should be applied to the Apple, Windows, and Linux forums as well IMO.

I invoked the Home Turf rule in this thread just prior to me writing up this thread:

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/896168-this-is-outrageous-and-simply-out-of-order/page__view__findpost__p__592555054

I am completely confused about the home turf concept.. unsure.gif I only own an Xbox 360 and my GH history probably has ample proof to show that. In GH, I post mostly in Xbox 360 section with occasional posts under Sony/Main GH. Does this make 360 as my Home turf? If I criticize anything in PS3 section, am I immediately up for a warn?

News about a PS3 (negative or not) should go in the Sony Console setting. Just be advised that there will be a lower threshold of trolling allowed so keep it respectful.

Just to clarify my own understanding - if I criticize Sony in PS3 section (360 being my Home turf) - such as in recent case of the PS3 Move ad, does that automatically make me borderline troll?

p.s. on a lighter note :p when do we start playing CTF and Territories around here?

Well, Neowin was not designed to be a no-holds-barred survival of the fittest forum (although Gamers Hangout does seem to get like that from time to time). We would like to encourage respectful discussion and as long as people are afraid of starting topics because they might get attacked by the haters then we can't do what we want to do.

A Playstation owner that wants to discuss the Other OS Fiasco could leave their home turf and post in the forum of another console but they would need to be slightly more polite and respectful there then they could get away with at home.

No. :no: Why have two separate discussions about a certain thing in different parts of the forum.

In one forum and topic you have will have *EXAMPLE* Sony fanboys saying that removing OtherOS was a thing that Sony has the right to do and we should just follow what they have done. In the other forum and in a different topic you will have *EXAMPLE* an XBot (XBOX fanboy :) ) going on about how Sony is stupid and why they are the worst company in the world.

This would not work because then if someone goes into the "enemy" teritory and say how they don't like the fact that Sony removed the feature then they will be warnerd/banned for voicing the opinion. This just creates confusion and unnecessary change that is just going to make it more complicated and it removes healthy discussion.

Now, if I was a moderator of the forum, then what I would do is keep the whole forum in check. Bickering back and forth is a GOOD thing! It allows for discussion on a subject that is big and it allows for people to see both sides of the story and what people like and don't like. Where it gets BAD is when members attack each other because of their opinion. I have seen countless of times where AB was being attacked by a couple of other forum members (not going to mention names) because of his opinion. Instead of going through all of this trouble to create "turfs" you should be watching the personal attacks by the forum members because of another persons valid opinion.

Just like to add my thoughts.

I don't think this is a great idea. I don't like the idea of having to know how to use a forum, knowing about the silly little rules that're forum specific instead of global specific. It's not obvious and even if there's a sticky people will overlook it so people not entirely familar will stumble into "enemy territory" so to speak. It also sounds like it'll segreate the community, promoting people to stick to their own camp and not venture to neighboring ones.

Also, I've only got a laptop to game on and it's not exactly a "gaming rig". Where's my "home turf"? Why can't I express my opinions (negative or otherwise) about a particular console and where do I have the most freedom to do that in?

I'm still waiting for GH to get better btw.

A lot of things appear differently to people out of the loop. Unless those friendly jibes between buddies are clearly marked with emoticons or something similar we'll tend to clean them out so as to not give other members the wrong idea. It would be easy for casual readers to think that we're allowing personal attacks and that may encourage them to post their own personal attacks on members who they are not on friendly terms with.

Fair enough I guess, goes back to my previous point of us making the forum a tad more friendly for new members.

I like the idea behind this, but the execution isn't to my liking to be honest - it seems like it'll create more animosity between each of the sections' regular members rather then creating universal harmony across all of the boards which should be the main goal. At the end of the day, there's always a clear line between maturely "attacking" a console, disagreeing with a member's opinion of a console and attacking the member him/herself.

As for the line about the burnout rate of GH Mods, I'd be willing to lend a helping hand as I've been in situations where I need to whip a particular section into shape (it was a spamming minefield) and come out alive on other forums - after doing the job for 3 and a half years I'm fairly certain I'm immune to burnout ;) Just leaving it out there for consideration... :)

No. :no: Why have two separate discussions about a certain thing in different parts of the forum.

In one forum and topic you have will have *EXAMPLE* Sony fanboys saying that removing OtherOS was a thing that Sony has the right to do and we should just follow what they have done. In the other forum and in a different topic you will have *EXAMPLE* an XBot (XBOX fanboy :) ) going on about how Sony is stupid and why they are the worst company in the world.

This would not work because then if someone goes into the "enemy" teritory and say how they don't like the fact that Sony removed the feature then they will be warnerd/banned for voicing the opinion. This just creates confusion and unnecessary change that is just going to make it more complicated and it removes healthy discussion.

Now, if I was a moderator of the forum, then what I would do is keep the whole forum in check. Bickering back and forth is a GOOD thing! It allows for discussion on a subject that is big and it allows for people to see both sides of the story and what people like and don't like. Where it gets BAD is when members attack each other because of their opinion. I have seen countless of times where AB was being attacked by a couple of other forum members (not going to mention names) because of his opinion. Instead of going through all of this trouble to create "turfs" you should be watching the personal attacks by the forum members because of another persons valid opinion.

Maybe I've been confused by this OtherOS example.

Threads primarily about the PS3/PSP should stay in the Sony Console forum. Threads primarily about the Xbox should stay in the Microsoft Console forum. Same with Wiis/DSes and Nintendo.

If someone who is a known supporter of the Xbox wants to start a PS3 thread in the Sony Console they can still do so but with some care that the thread isn't designed to troll and insult PS3 owners (as with everything else, the opposite examples work just as well).

I do NOT want to see two discussions about a Wii system update (one in the Wii forum and an thread in somebody else's home turf that discusses what a mess Nintendo made). If you want to post that the Nintendo upgrade was a mess then go to the Nintendo forum and say that in a respectable way without adding "Haha, you shouldn't have bought such a loser console!" to the end of your post.

I like the idea behind this, but the execution isn't to my liking to be honest

There are well establishes clichés of "The devil is in the details" and "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" for a reason. It will likely be less drastic than some members reading this thread think it will be. Most members will never notice any difference. It just gives our mods one more tool in their Batman utility belt. If someone is a known crusader who is posting stuff outside of their home turf and it appears to be for the intention of causing trouble then we're going to go after that.

Prior to this we sometimes had situations where we're not sure if people are intentionally trolling or if they are just being blunt and obtuse. This will help make our decision. If they are in their home turf we'll likely assume they are blunt and obtuse and lack social skills. If they are outside their home turf we'll decide that they are doing it for the purpose of annoying other members.

There are well establishes clichés of "The devil is in the details" and "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" for a reason. It will likely be less drastic than some members reading this thread think it will be. Most members will never notice any difference. It just gives our mods one more tool in their Batman utility belt. If someone is a known crusader who is posting stuff outside of their home turf and it appears to be for the intention of causing trouble then we're going to go after that.

Prior to this we sometimes had situations where we're not sure if people are intentionally trolling or if they are just being blunt and obtuse. This will help make our decision. If they are in their home turf we'll likely assume they are blunt and obtuse and lack social skills. If they are outside their home turf we'll decide that they are doing it for the purpose of annoying other members.

Okay, fair enough, but what happens when we get mods who don't usually visit the GH and don't always know the cliqs and the regulars of certain groups? For example, my most visited forum according to the stats is the Sony Console section - but if anything I'd say have a particular leaning towards Nintendo, but what would happen if I said something that could be misconstrued as trolling, when it's just me voicing an opinion? I'd say the GH as a whole is "my home turf" rather then one particular section of it - the fact that it's at the very top of my "Favourite Forums" list shows this.

I'm not intentionally trying to go against the grain with this system, I love the fact that you're all trying new initiatives to keep this place better, I'm just worried there are certain points that need to be ironed out/explained in more detail now rather then it all get explained later in a "Surprise! You've got a 20% warn!" PM.

Like you said previously, it's more for the obvious crusaders then someone like me who just enjoys posting here, but I don't fancy being treated differently in one forum over the next because <insert staff member here> believes I have a particular preference for a console and getting slammed in once place but not another when keeping the exact same tone to my posts.

[snip]

Like you said previously, it's more for the obvious crusaders then someone like me who just enjoys posting here, but I don't fancy being treated differently in one forum over the next because <insert staff member here> believes I have a particular preference for a console and getting slammed in once place but not another when keeping the exact same tone to my posts.

Every mod won't know whos alliance falls where, however we all communicate alot and consider things like warnings before hand. At the end of the day we don't want members to troll/flamebait but we do want intelligent discussions going on in GH. Your Sony fans don't tend to have much of a hatred towards each other as towards a member from the Microsoft camp coming along and flaming. That is when the problems arise and we will moderate it carefully. Trust us :)

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • I notice how you dodged the questions I had about the racism shown by ignorant, gullible, cowardly people when the Poles, like your partner, were the immigrants. Ahem. I wonder how you'd feel if native born Brits suddenly treated you as "dirty crooked immigrant" for being half Trump-American? If they ordered you to leave and "go back to your corrupt country" (on the other side of the Atlantic), would you go? The truth is based on facts as supported by evidence. As requested in your previous posts, I have used the facts in your own post to show everyone the truth.
    • US citizens are paying to their government, who could use that to fund healthcare and tuition and relieve the costs of these for citizens instead of making tax breaks that overwhelmingly favor the rich. I'm not saying that tariffs are the correct solution, but what else would they be used for? What else could Trump have in mind for wanting them, if he hasn't figured out that labor costs are higher in the US?
    • I’m in need of a new chair and it sounds like the backrest cannot be locked? I also sat on a Herman miller and was devastated that it couldn’t be locked also, what is going on with chairs. I want to be able to lock the backrest into any position but not even the Herman’s do that
    • Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 Ergonomic Office Chair review: The Ikea of chairs by Steven Parker I've reviewed a few gaming chairs over the past three years or so and generally found them to score well in our reviews. SIHOO reached out asking if I was interested in taking a look at their flagship chair, the Doro C300 Pro V2. I never got the chance to check out its predecessor, but the V2 is described as an "Adaptive Ergonomic Chair." It became available to buy in April of this year. Let's get things rolling with a closer look at the specifications and features. Specifications Doro C300 Pro V2 Model Ergonomic Materials Mesh Back and Seat; Soft PU Coated Armrests Height adjustability 45.5 - 53 cm / 17.5" - 20.9" Seat (w+d) 52 x 43 - 47 cm / 20.5" x 16.9" - 18.5" (adjustable) Backrest 52 – 60 cm / 20.5" - 23.6" (adjustable) Lumbar support Mesh built-in (adjustable) Armrest adjustability 8D Bionic Armrests Rocking angle 105°, 120°, 135° (fixed) Neck support Mesh built-in (adjustable) Net weight 27.3 kg / 59.64 lbs Weight support 150 kg / 330 lbs Colors Black, White Warranty 5 years (upon registering) Price $499.99, $539.99 Introduction At first glance, it looks like a chair that in another life wants to be a Herman Miller; It certainly looks like my Aeron Remastered, but the Doro C300 Pro V2 has quite a few more features and costs quite a bit less. SIHOO says that it is made up of a "DynaCore" system that tracks your movement and synchronizes the headrest, backrest, lumbar support, and armrests as you shift, twist, or recline. They also say that the "SyncroFlex Backrest" molds to your spine, which kind of describes how the mesh fabric works in most ergonomic chairs, but anyway. Below are the meat and potatoes measurements for the chair. Here is the same tech sheet, but in inches. Durability I would be remiss to not talk about the various durability testing this chair underwent before coming to market, as this is claimed on the product page. First of all, the chair is BIFMA-, SGS-, and TÜV-certified. As for durability, the tests undergone were: 100,000 Castor cycles tested 120,000 Armrest cycles tested 120,000 Recline cycles tested 120,000 Gas lift cycles tested 60,000 Armrest durability cycles tested 120,000 Rotation cycles tested Nothing about weights testing, though. Now that's all disclosed, now onto my own personal findings. Assembly The Doro C300 Pro V2 came in two large boxes (1) (2), and everything was packed very well, protecting the different parts of the chair. In the box, there is a folded sheet that explains the 12 steps to assemble it; they are: Remove the bottom cover on the aluminum base; Insert the five legs into the aluminum base and use ten screws to fasten them; Insert the castors into the legs; Replace the bottom cover on the bottom of the aluminum base; Place the Class 4 Hydraulics gas cylinder into the aluminum base; Screw the bottom part of the arm rests, taking care of the orientation using two screws on each side; Use three torx screws to fasten the footrest to the bottom of the seat; Fasten the backrest to the seat using four torx bolts; Fasten the armrests to the backrest using four Torx bolts (two on each side), taking care to note the orientation; Place the chair onto the Class 4 Hydraulics gas cylinder; Insert the headrest into the top of the backrest; Use two torx screws to fasten the headrest to the backrest. There's also an online guide you can refer to. Carefully unpacking the two boxes took around 15 minutes because almost everything is wrapped in plastic and protective foam; the chair assembly itself took around an hour. I say in the above assembly steps to take note of the orientation, because it's not obvious which way around the bottom portion of the armrests go, and although there is an L and R on the bottom of the armrests, it also wasn't clear from the instructions which was actually left or right, facing the chair, or in the seated down orientation? Anyway, I ended up putting the bottom portions on the wrong sides, and after securing one of the armrests, I discovered that although it was on the correct side, the armrest base could rotate a full 360°, but not when bolted to the chair, so I had to remove it, rotate it, and then bolt it back on. Truly an Ikea experience! Also, to complicate things further, although all the parts are labeled from A to X (yes, that's 24 parts) unhelpfully, these letters do not appear on the parts themselves or the package with the bolts, screws, and washers. There's also a pair of protective gloves in the box, but I think they were made for much smaller hands than I have. Even my friend, who is 5.1, had difficulty putting them on. Once assembled, I needed to sit down. Anyway, as I said, it looks quite similar to my Herman Miller. And here is the back of it. If you look at the product page and on Amazon, it seems like a lot of thought has gone into the chair itself and what it's capable of, but there is no mention at all about the castors, and this is an area where I think the chair trips up quite quickly. I found it difficult to move the chair in any direction. I asked a friend who came to visit me earlier this week to test my findings, and she said that the wheels were "no good," so it definitely isn't just me. I am 6'2 myself and a big guy, I work from home and gained a few pounds from mostly staying in and the hell away from other people. However, the Doro C300 Pro V2 is rated for up to 150kg (330lbs), which in my case is used well within its max rating. Ergonomics The number of adjustments you can make, right up to setting it in nap mode — which I haven't fully tested yet — is what you'd expect from a premium chair. Yes, you can go up and down (max 7.5 cm adjustment), rock back and forth (with tilt adjustment), and lock the chair between three stages of 105°, 120°, 135°, which is not quite as flat as the AndaSeat I tested at 160°. Some thought has also gone into the "8D" armrests, too, which are cushioned but quite firm; you'll only know it if you press hard into the PU-covered tops, which give about half a centimeter, but it's enough to ensure your skin won't get awkwardly stuck to it in warmer (or sweatier) conditions. It almost feels like plastic and is very easy to keep clean. However, the armrest positions move far too easily, and I am not sure what that "elbow" function is. Maybe it is good for a short person with short arms, anyway, I never used it and kept it flat at all times. There are eight levels of adjustment for the armrests, they are: backwards, forwards, swing left/right, height up and down, tilt, and 360° rotation, which can be handy for desk clearance. As I said, the armrest pads shift far too easily, which could give off an ergonomic vibe, but who wants the armrest sliding when you are shifting weight? The height adjustability does lock into place when lifting and adjusting. Comfort This is ultimately what it boils down to at the end of the day, right? Quite a lot of reviews praise the comfort of this chair, and I don't disagree that the mesh seating is quite comfortable. I am used to the material from my daily Herman Miller. However, the backrest cannot be locked into place, and this is actually a feature; as you shift or recline yourself on the chair, the backrest moves with your body. It took some getting used to. The lumbar gives ample support, but I would have preferred an adjustable one built into the seat base, as this causes the backrest to move up and down at will. Again, as with my previous chair review, this chair is also rated for tall people, but nowhere in the product documentation does it say how tall. Being 6'2 myself, I'm happy to say that the backrest is tall and wide enough, and thought has been given to being able to adjust the neck rest, but as others have mentioned in their reviews, people as tall as 6.2ft is about the limit for the neckrest. Conclusion What I didn't like The footrest is rated for 15kg (33 lbs), which to me seems a bit light, and after looking online, it seems like a chair footrest for adults must be at least twice that rating. In all honesty, they are just hollow metal tubes, so it is not recommended to let a kid sit on them. I also feel like it doesn't really go out far enough for my height, so that kind of puts the dampener on me being able to use it regularly. I'll just have to continue to use my subwoofer as a footrest! I do not like the armrests being able to shift around as easily as they can, and they are a little too forward-positioned in the chair to comfortably sit close to my desk, because even in the lowest height position, they don't allow me to go under the desk like is possible with my Herman Miller. I also feel like this chair could have been delivered partially constructed, especially the armrests on the seat, and why the aluminum base wasn't already pre-constructed (without the castors) is baffling, considering it would have fit in one of the two boxes that way. The instructions also need to be clearer. On the pamphlet, there's an A to X listing (which is also used in the steps), but none of the physical parts use this lettering system! What I did like I'll be honest, I haven't used it for very long, just one week, and seating comfort is subjective after all! Any spills wiped straight off it, the stitching, and the lines look great, not a fray to be seen or stitch out of place. It looks kind of cool, too. My favorite feature of these seats is the nap mode. While you're not lying completely flat, it leans far back enough to make you easily doze off after a heavy gaming or working session. Overall, this chair offers plenty of comfort features. The MSRP does vary quite a bit depending on the region, at £549.99 in the UK, and €580 in Europe, and $599 before tax in the U.S. However, shipping is free, which is a bonus for such a heavy item. Is it worth it, though? At three years' warranty, I think it's a decent deal. Another firm out of Germany sent me a free replacement hydraulic gas spring for a chair that failed after almost four years, so it was well outside its two-year warranty. My advice is to always try, as you might have the same luck I did. If I could fault it at all, it would be the constant shifting of the armrests and backrest. Where to buy Although the footrest variant normally costs $539.99, it has been discounted to $469.99 on the official website in Black or White. In fact, the non-footrest variant is only $40 cheaper. On Amazon, it currently costs more at $499.99 links below. Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 for $469.99 (official website) Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 for $499.99 at Amazon US SIHOO provided a free sample without any review or pre-approval. Good to know This Amazon link is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
  • Recent Achievements

    • Conversation Starter
      jessse3334 earned a badge
      Conversation Starter
    • Reacting Well
      JuvenileDelinquent earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • One Month Later
      Excellence2025 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Excellence2025 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      506
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      207
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      151
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      73
    5. 5
      macoman
      62
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!