Microsoft should buy Opera!

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Except I don't want to use any extensions? I don't see the point of them to be honest. Stuff I would use:

1. Download manager? Built right in

2. Ad/flash block? Built right in.

CSS customizations for themes? Not needed since you can select different theme colors, but you can also modify the theme files. And, like FF4, the default theme fits in quite nicely into Windows so I don't want any additional themes.

At the end of the day it really just comes down to what you prefer. If you want a billion extensions, then go with Firefox. If you don't, then go with something else.

Excuse me? HTML5 support is increasing with every build and in terms of Canvas support, Opera does it best.

:rolleyes:

Ha! I was just going to edit my post about HTML5.

[ArKeYa]

Oh noes! Not the bloat thing again....

[Mr. Gibs]

At least those browsers load webpages properly without needing code for specific sites such as gmail. Opera is nice n all, but lack of extensions(only browser left really without em) and ad blocking makes it utterly worthless.

Why would MS dare buy something as uncompetitive as opera?

Adblocking is built right into the browser... And as for not loading pages correctly, from all the ones I visit maybe like 1 or 2 don't look right but they're still usable.

And yet again please name me some extensions that you use?

[Neoauld]

I guess I don't understand this obsession with "out of the box". We here on Neowin are above average for knowledge of computers so what's the big deal about spending a few minutes to customize a piece of software to your liking? I cannot imagine you use your OS with every default option "out of the box", I'm sure you change a few things, disable one or two unnecessary services, change the Start Menu to look a certain way, etc. If a browser does everything you want out of the box, well, then congratulations. This is why I don't understand this bundling preference in a browser. I want a browser to browse, not have email included, in addition to not being a torrent client. Is there such thing as Opera Light? (without email, torrent, etc) If not, then I would never use that software. But more power to you.

This reminds me of the old Unix saying "Do one thing and do it well." Bloat = bad

I agree 100%. Opera does not have what i need out of hte box. Does it have a facebook album downloader, no..at least i can get that with FX...does it have ad blocking...NO..it has a crappy manual filter that requires you go manually download filter updates etc etc..but firefox can do that.

The only people i can see really calling opera amazing out of the box are novice users who dont want anything more than a page displayed, and even that opera fails at cause it has the most incompatible rendering engine out there. For those users anyway, IE/Firefox basic installs are enough...

[Mr. Gibs]

I agree 100%. Opera does not have what i need out of hte box. Does it have a facebook album downloader, no..at least i can get that with FX...does it have ad blocking...NO..it has a crappy manual filter that requires you go manually download filter updates etc etc..but firefox can do that.

The only people i can see really calling opera amazing out of the box are novice users who dont want anything more than a page displayed, and even that opera fails at cause it has the most incompatible rendering engine out there. For those users anyway, IE/Firefox basic installs are enough...

*Yawn* Please give me a page that you know thats plastered with Ads, I'll go use Opera with its "crappy" manual filter which I last updated like 2 months ago, and see what it looks like ok?

[Neoauld]

Adblocking is built right into the browser... And as for not loading pages correctly, from all the ones I visit maybe like 1 or 2 don't look right but they're still usable.

And yet again please name me some extensions that you use?

You mean that crappy filter.ini thing you have to manually update. That leaves ugly gaps in webpages, where you need to install a user script just to make those go away, then you cant use any other user scripts...dont even call that ad blocking thats utter garbage...and its certainly not an 'out of the box' experience is it..

Then for extensions

FB Album Downloader

Greasemonkey(Yeah opera can do that, barring the obstacle above, but it has no easy one click install interface)

Xmarks/Firefox sync, with PASSWORD SYNC, opera has the most terrible sync option i have EVER encountered, wher ei bookmark things and it doesnt seed to rest of the PC's...i left it for an hour..NO SYNC..im not alone on this ive seen alot of talk of their horrible sync

BitTorrentWebUI - Auto sends to a utorrent webUI..useful if tunneling traffic

Foxyproxy - Opera doesnt even support SOCKS proxies, let alone rule based proxying like in this extension..pathetic

Rotate Image - Useful when on facebook and someone uploads a pic thats sideways

Compact Menu - Not really needed in FF 4.0/Opera

As someone who isnt a novice user, opera will never meet my needs until htey add extensions. Chromes crippled extension system doesnt even meet my needs.

[Mr. Gibs]

You mean that crappy filter.ini thing you have to manually update. That leaves ugly gaps in webpages, where you need to install a user script just to make those go away, then you cant use any other user scripts...dont even call that ad blocking thats utter garbage

I don't use any userscripts, but If I wanted to, I can just append them to the filter. Big ****ing deal, I have to copy and paste a file.

Then for extensions

FB Album Downloader Useless for me

Greasemonkey(Yeah opera can do that, barring the obstacle above, but it has no easy one click install interface) Also mentioned above all it takes is a copy and pasting a file

Xmarks/Firefox sync, with PASSWORD SYNC, Opera link works fine because I use it to sync bookmarks and stuff with my phone that uses Opera Mobile

BitTorrentWebUI - Auto sends to a utorrent webUI..useful if tunneling traffic Useless for me

Foxyproxy - Opera doesnt even support SOCKS proxies, let alone rule based proxying like in this extension..pathetic Useless for me since the last time I saw a socks based proxy was years ago, hell the last time I used a proxy was years ago

Rotate Image - Useful when on facebook and someone uploads a pic thats sideways Facebook has that built right in...

Compact Menu - Not really needed in FF 4.0/Opera um ok

Like I said, user preference.

[Nagisan]

At the moment Opera is faster than Firefox by a tad. But with every modern browser the speed difference is minimal. AFAIK, Opera will not support HTML5 but that is not a big deal either. For me it is:

1. Firefox

2. Opera.

I do not even have IE installed and never will. I also do not trust Google so I would never use anything they produce, even the Google Car. LOL.

Opera does support HTML5, or at least a large majority of it, and it is improving its HTML5 support with each release. I leave IE installed because I do not like FF and do not want to install Chrome on my main computer, it doesn't mean I like IE more than FF, it simply means I have such little use for a secondary browser that I do not take the time to install FF or Chrome in place of IE.

I guess I don't understand this obsession with "out of the box". We here on Neowin are above average for knowledge of computers so what's the big deal about spending a few minutes to customize a piece of software to your liking? I cannot imagine you use your OS with every default option "out of the box", I'm sure you change a few things, disable one or two unnecessary services, change the Start Menu to look a certain way, etc. If a browser does everything you want out of the box, well, then congratulations. This is why I don't understand this bundling preference in a browser. I want a browser to browse, not have email included, in addition to not being a torrent client. Is there such thing as Opera Light? (without email, torrent, etc) If not, then I would never use that software. But more power to you.

This reminds me of the old Unix saying "Do one thing and do it well." Bloat = bad

Actually, Windows 7 is virtually on out of the box settings for me. I usually change the wallpaper (to just a plain black wallpaper) and change the power settings, then I change the taskbar to the slimmer variant and thats about it. Services are left alone, start menu is on its defaults, etc. Sure you can spend time customizing Windows 7 or your browser and what not, but one browser (or OS) does things you need it to the way you want it to out of the box, why bother installing another browser then spending 30 minutes getting it to work like you want it to?

At least those browsers load webpages properly without needing code for specific sites such as gmail. Opera is nice n all, but lack of extensions(only browser left really without em) and ad blocking makes it utterly worthless.

Opera loads pages fine, 99% of website issues are due to bad coding or browser-specific code. The last major issue with Opera loading a page was gmail, which Opera fixed temporarily with a JS update, then Gmail fixed it permanently by fixing their site. Gmail works fine for me, I do not use it often, but I use it every few days without issue. Ad blocking is built-in, you just have to be smart enough/willing enough to enable and use it. Lack of extensions is the only downside of Opera, but it personally doesn't affect me, Opera does what I need it to how I want it to out of the box, no need to bother with extensions.

[Subject Delta]

At the moment Opera is faster than Firefox by a tad. But with every modern browser the speed difference is minimal. AFAIK, Opera will not support HTML5 but that is not a big deal either. For me it is:

1. Firefox

2. Opera.

I do not even have IE installed and never will. I also do not trust Google so I would never use anything they produce, even the Google Car. LOL.

By a tad? Running Peacekeeper, using the latest FF4 beta with hardware acceleration, comparing it to the latest Chromium trunk also with hardware acceleration, Firefox scored 4,400 Chrome 9,400 and Opera 10,000

That puts Firefox a performance deficit of around 50-60% compared to Opera and Chrome (and around 40-50% of a deficit in the Sunspider tests). That is not a small difference, it is a very large difference, and it is noticeable on more complex sites like Facebook. Firefox is lagging way behind in terms of rendering speed, and that doesn't look like changing with V4

Also I think the "it has extensions and user JS" argument is a bit deprecated now, Chrome has pretty similar extendibility and all browsers apart from IE have the ability to use User JS, in fact in Chrome you can even install user JS as extensions

[Knife Party]

note to OP - include common sense when making thread :whistle:

[progh]

I agree 100%. Opera does not have what i need out of hte box. Does it have a facebook album downloader, no..at least i can get that with FX...does it have ad blocking...NO..it has a crappy manual filter that requires you go manually download filter updates etc etc..but firefox can do that.

Personally I use Ad Muncher which is a lot much better than ff ad blocking addons and is working in all browsers including 64bit

[strotee]

Actually, Windows 7 is virtually on out of the box settings for me. I usually change the wallpaper (to just a plain black wallpaper) and change the power settings, then I change the taskbar to the slimmer variant and thats about it. Services are left alone, start menu is on its defaults, etc. Sure you can spend time customizing Windows 7 or your browser and what not, but one browser (or OS) does things you need it to the way you want it to out of the box, why bother installing another browser then spending 30 minutes getting it to work like you want it to?

In comparison to XP, I customize 7 a lot less, so 7 is closer to an "out of the box" OS for me as well. I'm sure in time with the more I learn more about 7, I'll tweak it further (maybe this is why I reloaded XP so often, hehe) As I said before, if the piece of software works for you with no to little customization, then more power to you. I'm not trying to convince you to use another browser, just trying to learn more about what other people use/prefer. I'll load Opera in my XP VM sometime and play around with it to see if it's comparable to my preferred browser.

[Neoauld]

Opera does support HTML5, or at least a large majority of it, and it is improving its HTML5 support with each release. I leave IE installed because I do not like FF and do not want to install Chrome on my main computer, it doesn't mean I like IE more than FF, it simply means I have such little use for a secondary browser that I do not take the time to install FF or Chrome in place of IE.

Actually, Windows 7 is virtually on out of the box settings for me. I usually change the wallpaper (to just a plain black wallpaper) and change the power settings, then I change the taskbar to the slimmer variant and thats about it. Services are left alone, start menu is on its defaults, etc. Sure you can spend time customizing Windows 7 or your browser and what not, but one browser (or OS) does things you need it to the way you want it to out of the box, why bother installing another browser then spending 30 minutes getting it to work like you want it to?

Opera loads pages fine, 99% of website issues are due to bad coding or browser-specific code. The last major issue with Opera loading a page was gmail, which Opera fixed temporarily with a JS update, then Gmail fixed it permanently by fixing their site. Gmail works fine for me, I do not use it often, but I use it every few days without issue. Ad blocking is built-in, you just have to be smart enough/willing enough to enable and use it. Lack of extensions is the only downside of Opera, but it personally doesn't affect me, Opera does what I need it to how I want it to out of the box, no need to bother with extensions.

Most users will find it harder to install opera filters than use IE's adblock..

I agree on one thing, it is due to bad page coding that opera has issues, but its still an opera issue imo since no one else has it, and it is MUCH better now than say..3 years ago. I also agree on Extensions being operas main issue, that and i think the annoying 'click to activate flash' message that is due to a legal issue I believe, which requires the install of a modified EXE

[-KJ]

I don't know if the latest final build has it, or maybe all the latest ones do, but Opera finally has a bookmark bar that replaces the personal bar which makes me really happy. Previously, you could only drag the entire bookmarks folder into the personal bar. Now with the bookmark bar you can place subfolders there like you could in FireFox. That was the only thing that I really missed from my transition to Opera many years ago. Obviously, I didn't miss it bad enough to go back to FF. However, the bookmarks bar could use some enhancing. Like the other day, I tried dragging in a favicon of a site to the appropriate bookmark subfolder, but it wouldn't let me. Intuitively, it would allow me to quickly bookmark a site in such fashion.

[Mr. Gibs]

I agree on one thing, it is due to bad page coding that opera has issues, but its still an opera issue imo since no one else has it, and it is MUCH better now than say..3 years ago. I also agree on Extensions being operas main issue, that and i think the annoying 'click to activate flash' message that is due to a legal issue I believe, which requires the install of a modified EXE

When did you last use Opera or update Flash? 5 years ago?

I haven't had any "click to activate flash" message on any browser in so long I'd forgotten about it.

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Adblocking is built right into the browser... And as for not loading pages correctly, from all the ones I visit maybe like 1 or 2 don't look right but they're still usable.

And yet again please name me some extensions that you use?

Then why do I see all of those ads when I use Opera?

[Nagisan]

When did you last use Opera or update Flash? 5 years ago?

I haven't had any "click to activate flash" message on any browser in so long I'd forgotten about it.

Opera updated to the latest version and running the latest version of flash, for me at least, does have a Click to activate. But it ONLY only appears on mouseover of the flash content and it doesn't prevent flash from loading. Instead, what it does, is prevent flash from stealing any input until you are ready to do so. As such, games require 1 click before you can actually play them. This is on Opera with both Opera and Flash on their latest stable release, it could be a setting though as I didn't bother tweaking any Opera settings.

Perhaps one of the best things with Opera for me though, is it doesn't play videos until you switch to that tab. As such, if I am browsing, say, CollegeHumor, I can right-click Open in background tab, then ignore it. Doing this allows me to stay on the CH video page and open all videos I plan to watch without ever leaving the page, then close the CH page and view the videos 1 by 1 without having to pause any of the other videos in the other tabs. I can do the same on sites like Youtube and virtually any side with flash-based video players. Some may not like it, but it makes no effect if you open up videos 1 by 1 and makes it much easier to open multiple videos then watch them 1 by 1 without having to pause all the others like you do in Chrome and FF.

Then why do I see all of those ads when I use Opera?

Perhaps you do not know how to use Opera's ad blocker?

Most users will find it harder to install opera filters than use IE's adblock..

I agree on one thing, it is due to bad page coding that opera has issues, but its still an opera issue imo since no one else has it, and it is MUCH better now than say..3 years ago. I also agree on Extensions being operas main issue, that and i think the annoying 'click to activate flash' message that is due to a legal issue I believe, which requires the install of a modified EXE

Most users will find it harder to install a third-party browser than use IE.

[Mr. Gibs]

Opera updated to the latest version and running the latest version of flash, for me at least, does have a Click to activate. But it ONLY only appears on mouseover of the flash content and it doesn't prevent flash from loading. Instead, what it does, is prevent flash from stealing any input until you are ready to do so. As such, games require 1 click before you can actually play them. This is on Opera with both Opera and Flash on their latest stable release, it could be a setting though as I didn't bother tweaking any Opera settings.

Hm maybe its because I'm use their beta Square release =/ Or I just haven't noticed it.

Then why do I see all of those ads when I use Opera?

Have you even bothered getting the filter? Like I said earlier, please link me a webpage that you know has tons of ads and I will screenshot what it looks like on Opera.

[inferniac]

By a tad? Running Peacekeeper, using the latest FF4 beta with hardware acceleration, comparing it to the latest Chromium trunk also with hardware acceleration, Firefox scored 4,400 Chrome 9,400 and Opera 10,000

That puts Firefox a performance deficit of around 50-60% compared to Opera and Chrome (and around 40-50% of a deficit in the Sunspider tests). That is not a small difference, it is a very large difference, and it is noticeable on more complex sites like Facebook. Firefox is lagging way behind in terms of rendering speed, and that doesn't look like changing with V4

+1 on that. Was about to post those numbers.

I agree on one thing, it is due to bad page coding that opera has issues, but its still an opera issue imo since no one else has it, and it is MUCH better now than say..3 years ago.

Another +1.

ON topic - although Opera could use Microsofts take on marketing and promotion I don't think it'd be a good idea.

[Neoauld]

Hm maybe its because I'm use their beta Square release =/ Or I just haven't noticed it.

Have you even bothered getting the filter? Like I said earlier, please link me a webpage that you know has tons of ads and I will screenshot what it looks like on Opera.

Not saying opera cant block ads. But its inferior to ABP. It removes white space and the page looks great after without weird spaces n such. I use opera on my netbook due to how light it is and i still see the difference. I really wish Opera would add extensions, at the very least a built in Adblock like how ABP is setup and id switch, just cause i really like its UI(specially since the betas are fixing that UGLY bookmark bar that appears in the transparency section) and its speed. Opera's smooth scroll is simply amazing to compared to even the addons that fix firefox's.

[.Neo]

IMO Opera has the most horrible and non-native interface of all browsers. They really need to work on that.

[c3ntury]

anyways , Microsoft never took browser wars seriously (even now , IE9 is only for Vista sp2 and W7 , what?)

IE9 is a modern browser, they didn't want it to get a bad rep because of a old OS that people shouldn't be using.

[Mr. Gibs]

Not saying opera cant block ads. But its inferior to ABP. It removes white space and the page looks great after without weird spaces n such. I use opera on my netbook due to how light it is and i still see the difference. I really wish Opera would add extensions, at the very least a built in Adblock like how ABP is setup and id switch, just cause i really like its UI(specially since the betas are fixing that UGLY bookmark bar that appears in the transparency section) and its speed. Opera's smooth scroll is simply amazing to compared to even the addons that fix firefox's.

Use the optimized filter then?

And I've said this like 3 times now, link me a page that you know has a ton of ads and I'll screenshot Opera. Amazing how nobody has even linked any yet =/

But yes I agree that Opera's smooth scrolling is the best, by a huge margin.

[~Johnny]

IMO Opera has the most horrible and non-native interface of all browsers. They really need to work on that.

Yes, how terribly ugly and unnative this is...

Really? :p I wouldn't call that "horrible" by a long shot

[Neoauld]

IE9 is a modern browser, they didn't want it to get a bad rep because of a old OS that people shouldn't be using.

Windows XP users should get over it. Win7 is faster by alot, on my netbook Win7 leaves XP in the dust, and frankly if my netbook can run win7 pretty well then im scared to think what kinda garbage the ppl stuck on XP must be running. If they are simply refusing to switch and have good hardware, tough luck.