Microsoft should buy Opera!

[cork1958]

Them's fightin words. :angry: :D

Yes, they are, aren't they?

How dare that person compare or use Opera in the same sentence as that crap Firefox or Chrome!! :laugh:

Still, I think that would be a bad move for MS, although it could be a killer deal for Opera.

[Arcademus]

By that logic, maybe Firefox should implement Unite then? Maybe they should suck it up and implement h.264 (I can't remember if they decided to add that in yet or not over licensing costs). Maybe they should put in a built in mail client? Maybe they should support separate processes for tabs? Maybe they should get the security record Opera / Chrome has? maybe firefox should support ASLR?

Maybe then firefox will become the right choice. You see how stupid that sounds?

Um, you were the one who agreed that Opera implemented a whole bunch of things that people don't want and need. So why not extensions? If anyone is sounding stupid here, it's you, unfortunately.

I do agree with h.264, separate processes for tabs, and the security though. The other stuff I don't care about, but I'm not going to get my panties in a knot if Mozilla does decide to implement them, as long as they do it properly.

lol. giving up? You were the one who made the "challenge"

Yes, because arguing on the interwebz all day long isn't my hobby. It's less of giving up and more of getting tired of having to play "beat around the bush" with you, especially when I've made my points quite clearly - that Opera requires you to navigate through the filesystem just to activate a feature.

Feel free to have the last word and/or claim victory as you see fit.

[Mr. Gibs]

Um, you were the one who agreed that Opera implemented a whole bunch of things that people don't want and need. So why not extensions? If anyone is sounding stupid here, it's you, unfortunately.

No, all I said was extensions weren't used by the vast majority of people. And that I don't use them, so them being implemented or not isn't a deal breaker to me. If Opera decides to implement them, great? I'll still use it until I find a browser that works better for me.

I never said Opera shouldn't implement them or that they were stupid. You took it to mean that and kept trying to claim everyone in the world uses them. All I ever said was that they aren't exactly the so important feature that you and others make it out to be. Does Opera have other features that aren't important or useful to me / others? Sure it does, but it doesn't mean I'll quit using Opera.

It was you who claimed that Opera is an inferior browser because it doesn't support extensions. It was me who claimed that just makes it an inferior browser in that area. In terms of performance, memory impact, security its by far the superior product. And if people wanted extensions they have the choice to go use firefox.

I don't see what was so hard for you to understand about that, especially since I've repeated it in like every post of mine while you just keeping banging on about filesystems and inferiority.

Like I also said. If X lacks Y, that doesn't make X a bad product it just makes X a product that lacks Y from a general point of view. If Y was a highly used feature, and X lacked it. Then X is a bad product.

To you Opera is inferior because it lacks extensions. But to me, and anyone else who doesn't use them, it isn't an inferior product. Which is why personal preference is so important when it comes to web browsers, and is also something I pointed out way way way back.

that Opera requires you to navigate through the filesystem just to activate a feature.

Ok but thats just one feature though, what about the rest. Oh and btw you can also add sites, block content within Opera. Just if you want to mass add them you copy and paste a file.

And not to mention that feature is in Opera from the very beginning. Sure it may require me to copy and paste a file in some obscure location, but at least I don't have to run an extension and the associated framework for it.

[Arcademus]

Wow, I let you off easy and you reply with a whole load of nonsense and lies.

Please read post #85 on who said what regarding which aspect Opera was inferior in.

Please read post #97 to see who said it was stupid that Opera could maybe include extensions and be the right choice for more people.

I'll continue giving you the benefit of doubt and believe that you just have poor comprehension skills instead of deliberately feigning ignorance and maliciously misreporting what I actually said, but that courtesy is wearing thin. Thing is, Fx/Chrome with extensions simply trounce Opera in the features department, FACT. The only reason we're still here going around in circles is thanks to your superbly pulled-off stalling tactics.

But meh, whatever.

[Mr. Gibs]

Please read post #85 on who said what regarding which aspect Opera was inferior in.

Please read post #97 to see who said it was stupid that Opera could maybe include extensions and be the right choice for more people.

And did I ever say that If Opera included extensions it would be a stupid idea? No I did not. I just said that not everyone uses extensions, hence not everyone feels the need for them.

Right now people who want extensions use Firefox, and even if opera adds it...millions aren't just going to switch overnight. A technical user might, the average user wouldn't know and wouldn't care.

I'll continue giving you the benefit of doubt and believe that you just have poor comprehension skills instead of deliberately feigning ignorance and maliciously misreporting what I actually said, but that courtesy is wearing thin. Thing is, Fx/Chrome with extensions simply trounce Opera in the features department, FACT.

You still haven't managed to prove that apart from "oh adblock is easier to use in firefox."

Adblock? Built in.

Mail? Built in.

Noscript? Built in.

User CSS? Built in.

User JS? Built in.

Content blocker (apart from ads)? Built in.

Bitorrent? Built in.

Sync? Built in.

IRC? Built in.

RSS reader? Built in.

Auto fill forms? Built in.

Change a theme color without messing with CSS or stylish? Built in.

Turbo? Built in.

Speed dial? Built in.

And then you have better standard support, better performance (even without hardware acceleration, since Opera doesn't have that yet), better security (though that could be because it has a low marketshare) and a lightweight browser.

How useful each of those features are, is subjective and a different topic. Hell of the top of my mind one extension Opera lacks is the ability to download flash files.

And like I also said:

Like I also said. If X lacks Y, that doesn't make X a bad product it just makes X a product that lacks Y from a general point of view. If Y was a highly used feature, and X lacked it. Then X is a bad product.

To you Opera is inferior because it lacks extensions. But to me, and anyone else who doesn't use them, it isn't an inferior product. Which is why personal preference is so important when it comes to web browsers, and is also something I pointed out way way way back.

[Arcademus]

You still haven't managed to prove that apart from "oh adblock is easier to use in firefox."

I still haven't managed to prove that?

What do you mean, prove it?

Oh wait, I see what the problem is now. You apparently believe that Opera really has more features than Firefox with extensions, and the reverse is something that needs to be proved as opposed to being immediately obvious. Riiight.

Let's start with your list:

Adblock? Fx extension works better.

Mail? Fx is not a suite.

Noscript? Fx extension works MUCH better, no contest.

User CSS? Fx allows you to style the user chrome as well, not just user content.

User JS? Fx extension works better.

Content blocker (apart from ads)? Fx extension works better.

Bitorrent? Available as extension.

Sync? Available as extension, Fx4 does this too.

IRC? Available as extension.

RSS reader? Fx does this too, extensions offer a wide range of methods to read your feeds.

Auto fill forms? Fx does this too.

Change a theme color without messing with CSS or stylish? As you mentioned, can be done in Fx using Stylish.

Turbo? Opera wins this one.

Speed dial? Fx does this too.

Now let's see what Opera can't do:

App Tabs.

Custom element hiding.

URL and search suggestions.

Select and manipulate (close, duplicate, reload, tear off etc) multiple tabs at once.

Automatic language translation.

Youtube downloader.

Bypass wait screens on file-hosting sites.

Automatic proxy management.

Webmail notifiers.

Twitter/Facebook notifiers.

Macros to automate sets of operations.

Open tab next to current.

Multiple tab rows.

Seamless Tor support.

Compare prices automatically when shopping online.

Superior URL bar behavior (AwesomeBar).

GPU acceleration in Fx4.

Automatically bypass sites that require registration (<< circumvention code >>).

"Switch to tab" via URL bar.

Integration with online services.

View thumbnails of all open tabs (superior implementation to Opera's).

Automatic URL shorteners and unshorteners.

Client-side XSS defenses.

Dynamically load and unload open tabs (BarTab).

Those are just a sample of what I have installed on my copy of Fx. I'm sure there's dozens of others I can't think off the top of my head right now.

[Nagisan]

Those are just a sample of what I have installed on my copy of Fx. I'm sure there's dozens of others I can't think off the top of my head right now.

Not only is half of your list wrong, you could cherry pick features Opera has that NO other browser has if your really wanted to. Unfortunately, there is no reason to try and prove a fanboy wrong, it is both not worth my time, and will serve no purpose as you are unlikely to change no matter what is said. But like I said, you could cherry pick tons of features that Opera has that IE, FF and Chrome do not, but you are simply not worth the time considering you are not willing to learn what features Opera has that you do not know about (such as youtube downloading which can be done a number of ways, element hiding, open tab next to current, URL bar behavior similar to awesomebar, thumbnails of tabs though you admit Opera has them just after saying it doesn't, etc).

[ViperAFK]

I didn't reply because it was completely irrelevant. Does every Opera user use every single feature in Opera? No? Damn, I guess those features need to get axed. 60% of people use IE and hence don't care about adblocking, DAMN OPERA NEEDS TO ABOLISH ADBLOCKING, PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT IT!

And guess what, you can still have extensions and have a choice at the same time, you've just proved that just because a browser has extensions doesn't mean everyone is forced to use them.

Your point is complete rubbish, spewing numbers doesn't change anything when your logic doesn't hold any water in the first place. And you were the one who started calling people retarded, now another personal insult about me being 5 years old, nice try.

Your posts consist of only logical fallacies and personal attacks. Please stop posting such flamebait crap. Did opera **** on your rug or something?

Regarding this thread's OP I think MS buying opera would be silly, but all of these moronic fanboy posts from any side are ridiculous. These forums are going down the crapper if people like you are even allowed to post such nonsense.

Users don't care about this, users don't care about that, they just don't use Opera because they're ignorant and misunderstand it, bla bla bla.

Except that it's a stupid CSS file that only hides ads, not prevent them from downloading like how urlfilter.ini does.

OH SNAP!

Actually you use the CSS file with the urlfilter file to block ads and hide whitespace. Setting up opera's adblock really takes no longer than ABP for firefox, its really quite easy. So what if you have to paste a file? That is trivial and extremely easy to do. You are falsely making it out to be a huge complicated thing and saying its not point and click, when copy paste is about as point and click as you can get. I do agree it could be made easier, and that it is easier with firefox, but these attacks from you are ridiculous and filled with hyperbole.

Is it so hard for you to accept that every browser has its strengths and weaknesses? There are things I like better about firefox, there are things I like better about opera. I don't know while you feel the need to post such ridiculous assertions.

[-KJ]

Opera has always been good to me. Except for the broken page I get once in a blue moon.

[muratoner]

i've been using firefox since version 2.And before that there was something called MyIe or something like that.The thing is Firefox has everything and feels complete but it's just so slow if you're a heavy browser.I open 6-9 pages in speed dial within 3 sec when i open the browser.And firefox has slow UI considering Opera.Opera renders faster also.(so fast that you can actually feel it).And i would also say something about Chrome.What a ram killer is that.I just had some addons and 6-7 pages open it was like 1gb of ram by adding all the chrome processes.I only have 2 gb of ram and it should not use half of it like an OS would..that's just crazy.The only thing i miss right now is the addon "downloadhelper" of Firefox.Other than that Opera is flawless

[Arcademus]

Unfortunately, there is no reason to try and prove a fanboy wrong, it is both not worth my time, and will serve no purpose as you are unlikely to change no matter what is said.

You're welcome to your own opinion, except that one has to wonder why you bother posting at all when you claim there's no reason to do so and you're not going to substantiate any of the claims you make.

Your posts consist of only logical fallacies and personal attacks. Please stop posting such flamebait crap.

Please point out exactly where were the logical fallacies and personal attacks in that post.

So what if you have to paste a file? That is trivial and extremely easy to do. You are falsely making it out to be a huge complicated thing and saying its not point and click, when copy paste is about as point and click as you can get. I do agree it could be made easier, and that it is easier with firefox, but these attacks from you are ridiculous and filled with hyperbole.

Wow. When I point out how absurd it is that a browser in the year freaking 2010 requires you to locate and navigate to your browser profile folder buried deep in your hard drive and drop a file there to enable a feature as basic as adblocking, you accuse me of hyperbole, while your buddies preach that the only reason Opera has been stuck at 1-2% desktop market share for decades is because people "misunderstand" it.

No, it's not trivial, and yes, avoiding major design blunders like this are very important if you want to appeal to the general public. Saying that you Opera fans Just Don't Get It is nothing short of a huge understatement.

Is it so hard for you to accept that every browser has its strengths and weaknesses?

Is it that hard for you to understand that this is a discussion specifically about Opera's features vs Firefox's extensions, and nowhere did I make the blanket claim that Opera has no strengths whatsoever?

[NeuTRida]

Nah, no point in Microsoft buying Opera, they already have a solid offering with IE8 & 9.

What's with all the flaming in this thread?

This is getting worse than the 360 vs PS3 garbage.

I might go an argue which FTP client is the best... *cough* FileZilla *cough*

[Neoauld]

And did I ever say that If Opera included extensions it would be a stupid idea? No I did not. I just said that not everyone uses extensions, hence not everyone feels the need for them.

Right now people who want extensions use Firefox, and even if opera adds it...millions aren't just going to switch overnight. A technical user might, the average user wouldn't know and wouldn't care.

You still haven't managed to prove that apart from "oh adblock is easier to use in firefox."

Adblock? Built in.

Mail? Built in.

Noscript? Built in.

User CSS? Built in.

User JS? Built in.

Content blocker (apart from ads)? Built in.

Bitorrent? Built in.

Sync? Built in.

IRC? Built in.

RSS reader? Built in.

Auto fill forms? Built in.

Change a theme color without messing with CSS or stylish? Built in.

Turbo? Built in.

Speed dial? Built in.

And then you have better standard support, better performance (even without hardware acceleration, since Opera doesn't have that yet), better security (though that could be because it has a low marketshare) and a lightweight browser.

How useful each of those features are, is subjective and a different topic. Hell of the top of my mind one extension Opera lacks is the ability to download flash files.

And like I also said:

Id be interested to see how fast it is WITH hardware accel. I think once Opera implements PW Sync, and it actually syncs and doesnt just sit there, i may make the switch...as i gave the ad blocking another go and its not tooo shabby. I also wish htey had right clickable menus

[MR_Candyman]

Wow. When I point out how absurd it is that a browser in the year freaking 2010 requires you to locate and navigate to your browser profile folder buried deep in your hard drive and drop a file there to enable a feature as basic as adblocking, you accuse me of hyperbole, while your buddies preach that the only reason Opera has been stuck at 1-2% desktop market share for decades is because people "misunderstand" it.

No, it's not trivial, and yes, avoiding major design blunders like this are very important if you want to appeal to the general public. Saying that you Opera fans Just Don't Get It is nothing short of a huge understatement.

Is it that hard for you to understand that this is a discussion specifically about Opera's features vs Firefox's extensions, and nowhere did I make the blanket claim that Opera has no strengths whatsoever?

Get your facts straight. Yes, you can edit the file so you will likely never have to block anything ever again (which is what I always do on a fresh install) but you can right click on the page, select "Block Content" and click on what you want to block. I have no idea why you keep making this assinine argument that you have to edit the file. You edit the file as likely a one time event. Hell, on a new install, I download the Fanboy's Adblock list and just overwrite my file. I have never had to block anything manually on any of my installs after that.

[Tom]

Nah, no point in Microsoft buying Opera, they already have a solid offering with IE8 & 9.

What's with all the flaming in this thread?

This is getting worse than the 360 vs PS3 garbage.

I might go an argue which FTP client is the best... *cough* FileZilla *cough*

SmartFTP>

[ViperAFK]

You're welcome to your own opinion, except that one has to wonder why you bother posting at all when you claim there's no reason to do so and you're not going to substantiate any of the claims you make.

Please point out exactly where were the logical fallacies and personal attacks in that post.

Wow. When I point out how absurd it is that a browser in the year freaking 2010 requires you to locate and navigate to your browser profile folder buried deep in your hard drive and drop a file there to enable a feature as basic as adblocking, you accuse me of hyperbole, 1. while your buddies preach that the only reason Opera has been stuck at 1-2% desktop market share for decades is because people "misunderstand" it.

No, it's not trivial, and yes, avoiding major design blunders like this are very important if you want to appeal to the general public. Saying that you Opera fans Just Don't Get It is nothing short of a huge understatement.

2. Is it that hard for you to understand that this is a discussion specifically about Opera's features vs Firefox's extensions, and nowhere did I make the blanket claim that Opera has no strengths whatsoever?

1. Ad-hominem

2. Straw man

[Nagisan]

Is it that hard for you to understand that this is a discussion specifically about Opera's features vs Firefox's extensions, and nowhere did I make the blanket claim that Opera has no strengths whatsoever?

PS: I wasn't the one said what you quoted, might want to get your quotes straight. :p

[soldier1st]

bad idea for MS as IE is crappy and Opera can be good but it has problems that the devs simply refuse to fix like the memory problems and unexplained cpu usage spikes. also if MS did buy Opera they would probably turn it into a garbage product unless they show us otherwise.

[Nagisan]

bad idea for MS as IE is crappy and Opera can be good but it has problems that the devs simply refuse to fix like the memory problems and unexplained cpu usage spikes. also if MS did buy Opera they would probably turn it into a garbage product unless they show us otherwise.

Opera has never really had memory problems, by default it can use (I think) up to 10% of your ram for its memory cache, which is why jumping backwards and forwards through pages you have already been to is much faster on Opera than any other browser as its something no other browser (to my knowledge) uses.

That being said, if you have 2GB of ram, Opera, by default, will use up to ~205MB of ram JUST for its memory cache. Add in some for the browser itself and what not and its clear why it appears to use lots of ram. The browser itself doesn't, its the memory cache which can be user controlled.

They have had some memory leaks in the past, but they have to my knowledge been fixed. I am not currently aware of any other memory problems, so aside from the memory cache I'm not sure what other memory issues you may be referring to.

Never seen CPU spikes with Opera, but I have noticed them fixing a few CPU spikes in the released dev builds...not sure if that was the ones you were referring to or not.

I do agree though if MS did buy Opera, they would likely trash the browser compared to how it is now.

[MikeChipshop Member]

I can picture mass Opera fan boy suicides!

(so maybe not such a bad idea) ;)

[Deo Domuique]

Let MS buy Opera. Two crappy browsers will give a total mess.

Now with FF 4, you gonna need binoculars to see us.

[dazhu]

Honestly if Microsoft bought Opera, it would be a good deal.

Due to the small market share of Opera, it makes Opera so undervalued as compared to other browsers, whats more what other browsers are there Microsoft can buy?

If they do purchase Opera, they gain the team, the talents and Presto engine and the Vega and Carakan components which are awesome and and a steal for Microsoft.

[MR_Candyman]

Honestly if Microsoft bought Opera, it would be a good deal.

Due to the small market share of Opera, it makes Opera so undervalued as compared to other browsers, whats more what other browsers are there Microsoft can buy?

If they do purchase Opera, they gain the team, the talents and Presto engine and the Vega and Carakan components which are awesome and and a steal for Microsoft.

It wouldn't be a good deal because MS already has a team, they already have a browser with MUCH higher market share, and their own engine (which isn't the best buy still no real motivation to switch engines, especially when IE9 seems to be doing quite well)

[George P Global Moderator]

Let MS buy Opera. Two crappy browsers will give a total mess.

Now with FF 4, you gonna need binoculars to see us.

Wow, I didn't know you could post on here while dreaming.....

Honestly, you have to be pretty daft to not see how good IE9 is turnhing out, and as for Opera, small market share and bitching aside they're rendering engine is solid, and arguabily the fastest one out there.

If MS got Opera they'd get a instant boost when it comes to mobile, I doubt they'd care much about Opera for Windows per se since they're really putting a lot of effort into IE9 now and it's showing. So really, if they wanted it for Opera Mobile/mini, then ya, otherwise it'd never happen.

[Deo Domuique]

In fact I'm kidding cause I laugh on every crazy ultra-fan boy. Well, dunno why I commented. Probably I hadn't something better to do.

The good thing now that Opera gets extensions is that all browsers will look like almost the same ( the UI already is same as we see and now characteristics too ). This will bring better competition and developers will have to deal with more substantial things.

The winner will be the user regardless of what browser he has.