Vandals pee in Church holy water

[phatphunky]

I wish I could have been there to see their faces when they discovered it was pee and not lemonade.

[articuno1au]

That's a whopping great assumption there.

As far as things go, peeing in holy water is pretty minor. It's not good, but it is funny.

Destroying an organ, statues, the priests staff etc is not..

Holy water is either replaced from the tap (which they do, admit it or not), or re-obtained from the Vatican.

Either way, it's not horrendously evil >.<

[Calum Veteran]

That's a whopping great assumption there.

As far as things go, peeing in holy water is pretty minor. It's not good, but it is funny.

Destroying an organ, statues, the priests staff etc is not..

Holy water is either replaced from the tap (which they do, admit it or not), or re-obtained from the Vatican.

Either way, it's not horrendously evil >.<

While I don't agree with their religious views, holy water means a big deal to these people and peeing in it is more disrespectful than you might imagine. It might even be worse than burning a Bible in some people's eyes because of what the water symbolises (you'd have to ask someone who follows the religion to see whether they would agree with that).

[articuno1au]

I'm religious. I'm Christian, in fact I am Lutheran (and please note the significant difference between Australian Lutheran and US Lutheran churches D:).

I am also someone who does a lot of research into religion in all it's forms (excluding some of the sub-continental ones and admittedly Buddhism). I enjoy debating religion with people (as you may have seen before :p).

The water is used for Baptisms, occasionally for ceremonial purposes such as blessings and confirmations etc etc. Other then that it sits in a basin for days on end not doing much :\

Holy water is much more symbolic than anything. It used to come from the Vatican and was blessed by the Pope or a senior Bishop in Rome. Now days it's tap water for the most part.

Sure it's mildly offensive, and indeed I never said it wasn't.. It is however, despite all that, mildly amusing.

Obviously the entire act was horrific in it's disregard for people's beliefs (just like most crimes) but in the grand scheme of things, peeing in a bowl of water is pretty minor :p

We should bring crucifixion back imo.

EDIT::

@ Callum - Did you edit your original post? O.o

[SionicIon]

Beliefs are one thing, physical harm is another.

Threats are not funny, so isn't physical harm.

But, if someone painted something in the Lincoln Memorial or the Vets Memorial, that would be funny.

Then again, people need to lighten up.

Oh I see...we should see everything your way! We should use our array of emotions the way you do! Yeah if our kids went to school together, I'd tell my son to bully your son! Yeah it's all fun and games Johnny! There's never harm in anything! Find out what he likes, and then take it! Make his feelings hurt, laugh when he cries! It'll be ****ing hillarious Johnny! You and your friends should gang up on him one day, pull him into the restroom and start using his head as a plunger to get out someone's big duker! Yeah! That'll be the day! Then hide the evidence by taking him out the restroom and throw him in the dumpster so when the garbage truck picks up it'll literally break him!!!

Yeah, **** happens...did you hear the story about the mother microwaving her child? Or how about the story regarding a girl killing her ex-boyfriend with her *new* boyfriend?... Do you read any of these news stories on Neowin? Is this how you are going to raise your offspring? Would you like it if I did?! Humor is a human emotion just like depression is. We can be happy, or sad, perhaps feel something is sacred...If I broke all your technology and then ****ed your wife in every room in the house, wouldn't you feel as though I took a part of you away? That you want to kill my ****ing guts?

Physical harm isn't as bad as emotional harm or mental harm...you can repair yourself physically. What matters is the person was hurt emotionally and perhaps mentally... If your mother found out all you cared about was her survival, and that as long as she was alive, everything was okay, she would most likely be upset you didn't care about her feelings at all, you just cared if she was still rotting on Earth...

Breaking someone else's property because you don't believe in what they believe in is self-centered and immoral. Have respect for you and everyone around you, regardless if you give a damn about their culture or not... This is not funny, it's a crime. Enough said.

[Hum]

I don't find vandalism funny.

I do think adding some sugar & lemon juice to the water would have been hilarious. :laugh:

[BoredBozirini]

Oh I see...we should see everything your way! We should use our array of emotions the way you do! Yeah if our kids went to school together, I'd tell my son to bully your son! Yeah it's all fun and games Johnny! There's never harm in anything! Find out what he likes, and then take it! Make his feelings hurt, laugh when he cries! It'll be ****ing hillarious Johnny! You and your friends should gang up on him one day, pull him into the restroom and start using his head as a plunger to get out someone's big duker! Yeah! That'll be the day! Then hide the evidence by taking him out the restroom and throw him in the dumpster so when the garbage truck picks up it'll literally break him!!!

Yeah, **** happens...did you hear the story about the mother microwaving her child? Or how about the story regarding a girl killing her ex-boyfriend with her *new* boyfriend?... Do you read any of these news stories on Neowin? Is this how you are going to raise your offspring? Would you like it if I did?! Humor is a human emotion just like depression is. We can be happy, or sad, perhaps feel something is sacred...If I broke all your technology and then ****ed your wife in every room in the house, wouldn't you feel as though I took a part of you away? That you want to kill my ****ing guts?

Physical harm isn't as bad as emotional harm or mental harm...you can repair yourself physically. What matters is the person was hurt emotionally and perhaps mentally... If your mother found out all you cared about was her survival, and that as long as she was alive, everything was okay, she would most likely be upset you didn't care about her feelings at all, you just cared if she was still rotting on Earth...

Breaking someone else's property because you don't believe in what they believe in is self-centered and immoral. Have respect for you and everyone around you, regardless if you give a damn about their culture or not... This is not funny, it's a crime. Enough said.

You definitively need to lighten up.

[Dick Montage]

I'm not religious, but I respect those who are. I find this quite disgusting!

[articuno1au]

Oh I see...we should see everything your way! We should use our array of emotions the way you do! Yeah if our kids went to school together, I'd tell my son to bully your son! Yeah it's all fun and games Johnny! There's never harm in anything! Find out what he likes, and then take it! Make his feelings hurt, laugh when he cries! It'll be ****ing hillarious Johnny! You and your friends should gang up on him one day, pull him into the restroom and start using his head as a plunger to get out someone's big duker! Yeah! That'll be the day! Then hide the evidence by taking him out the restroom and throw him in the dumpster so when the garbage truck picks up it'll literally break him!!!

Yeah, **** happens...did you hear the story about the mother microwaving her child? Or how about the story regarding a girl killing her ex-boyfriend with her *new* boyfriend?... Do you read any of these news stories on Neowin? Is this how you are going to raise your offspring? Would you like it if I did?! Humor is a human emotion just like depression is. We can be happy, or sad, perhaps feel something is sacred...If I broke all your technology and then ****ed your wife in every room in the house, wouldn't you feel as though I took a part of you away? That you want to kill my ****ing guts?

Physical harm isn't as bad as emotional harm or mental harm...you can repair yourself physically. What matters is the person was hurt emotionally and perhaps mentally... If your mother found out all you cared about was her survival, and that as long as she was alive, everything was okay, she would most likely be upset you didn't care about her feelings at all, you just cared if she was still rotting on Earth...

Breaking someone else's property because you don't believe in what they believe in is self-centered and immoral. Have respect for you and everyone around you, regardless if you give a damn about their culture or not... This is not funny, it's a crime. Enough said.

Please note the difference between making fun of someones religion and taking it away from them.

I would contend that you cannot, in fact, take away someone's religion.

Furthermore, religion is about FAITH. Belief without proof, and more often then not; in spite of proof.

Both physical and mental harm can be repaired.

Although I agree with what you are saying ("Respect other people's culture in the same way you would want them to respect yours" etc) I don't think your post actually does you or your argument any credit.

In fact, I think you will have just ****ed off about half the well educated and reasoned people here.. (i.e. me + 1 other person ;))

I'm not religious, but I respect those who are. I find this quite disgusting!

Why would you respect someone for being religious?

Unless you mean respect their beliefs as opposed to respect them for having beliefs >.<

[Calum Veteran]

I'm religious. I'm Christian, in fact I am Lutheran (and please note the significant difference between Australian Lutheran and US Lutheran churches D:).

I am also someone who does a lot of research into religion in all it's forms (excluding some of the sub-continental ones and admittedly Buddhism). I enjoy debating religion with people (as you may have seen before :p).

The water is used for Baptisms, occasionally for ceremonial purposes such as blessings and confirmations etc etc. Other then that it sits in a basin for days on end not doing much :\

Holy water is much more symbolic than anything. It used to come from the Vatican and was blessed by the Pope or a senior Bishop in Rome. Now days it's tap water for the most part.

Sure it's mildly offensive, and indeed I never said it wasn't.. It is however, despite all that, mildly amusing.

Obviously the entire act was horrific in it's disregard for people's beliefs (just like most crimes) but in the grand scheme of things, peeing in a bowl of water is pretty minor :p

We should bring crucifixion back imo.

EDIT::

@ Callum - Did you edit your original post? O.o

Would you disagree with my analogy that it is as disrespectful as burning a Bible then, and if so why? I'm interested to know your views on that seeing as you are religious. I didn't edit my original post as far as I remember; what do you believe has changed?

[Dick Montage]

You definitively need to lighten up.

I think he makes a good point. You hardly defend your argument by telling him he needs to lighten up!

[articuno1au]

Would you disagree with my analogy that it is as disrespectful as burning a Bible then, and if so why? I'm interested to know your views on that seeing as you are religious. I didn't edit my original post as far as I remember; what do you believe has changed?

Give me 5 minutes mate :) Need to drive my brother to work >.>

[Dick Montage]

I'm not religious, but I respect those who are. I find this quite disgusting!

Why would you respect someone for being religious?

Unless you mean respect their beliefs as opposed to respect them for having beliefs >.<

Don't nit pick, it makes you look immature! You know full well what I meant.

[BoredBozirini]

I think he makes a good point. You hardly defend your argument by telling him he needs to lighten up!

He is proof that people need to lighten up, which was my last point. Nothing to defend.

[Calum Veteran]

Give me 5 minutes mate :) Need to drive my brother to work >.>

No worries :) I look forward to your response.

[DConnell Member]

No, the point that I was trying to make is that there is obviously a double standard with matters regarding religion. Finding something funny or not funny is left to the individual, and no one should be judge by their reactions.

Yes, there is a double standard, and Christians are on the short end of it.

And before you bring it up again, I'm not denying that what a few priests have done is deplorable. But that doesn't make this any less a crime, or make the entire membership of the Catholic Church responsible for the crimes of a few priests. Yet you seem to think that all of us should be punished for those crimes.

Nor do the crimes of those few priests change the validity of the faith to its followers, myself included. As long as I can remember, the right to express my faith has been whittled away, because it might offend atheists if they overhear me saying grace before meals in a public place or some other excuse. Or the Christmas Village in Philly has to become the Holiday Village because it excludes non-Christians. Like they're not welcome to join in, and they can't have a Hannukah or Kwanza Village a few blocks down. Or a child can't hand out Christmas cards in school because it violates Seperation of Church & State. Meanwhile others can express their beliefs with no similar objections.

And when Christians complain, we're basically told to STFU. I'm sorry if I overreacted, but the comments in this thread struck me as more of the same. If it were anywhere else vandalized, virtually every post in this thread would have expressed outrage, sympathy, support for the victim. But since it was a church, "Hey, they deserve it! It's hilarious! Let's all point & laugh"

I stand by my statement that this should be considered a hate crime, just as if the victims were blacks, or gays, or Muslims.

[BoredBozirini]

Yes, there is a double standard, and Christians are on the short end of it.

And before you bring it up again, I'm not denying that what a few priests have done is deplorable. But that doesn't make this any less a crime, or make the entire membership of the Catholic Church responsible for the crimes of a few priests. Yet you seem to think that all of us should be punished for those crimes.

Nor do the crimes of those few priests change the validity of the faith to its followers, myself included. As long as I can remember, the right to express my faith has been whittled away, because it might offend atheists if they overhear me saying grace before meals in a public place or some other excuse. Or the Christmas Village in Philly has to become the Holiday Village because it excludes non-Christians. Like they're not welcome to join in, and they can't have a Hannukah or Kwanza Village a few blocks down. Or a child can't hand out Christmas cards in school because it violates Seperation of Church & State. Meanwhile others can express their beliefs with no similar objections.

And when Christians complain, we're basically told to STFU. I'm sorry if I overreacted, but the comments in this thread struck me as more of the same. If it were anywhere else vandalized, virtually every post in this thread would have expressed outrage, sympathy, support for the victim. But since it was a church, "Hey, they deserve it! It's hilarious! Let's all point & laugh"

I stand by my statement that this should be considered a hate crime, just as if the victims were blacks, or gays, or Muslims.

It should be considered vandalism, since that is all that it was.

[DConnell Member]

It should be considered vandalism, since that is all that it was.

Yeah, and if it were a black family's home, or a Mosque it would be (quite appropriately) labelled a hate crime as well. But hey, Catholics deserve it, right?

[BoredBozirini]

Yeah, and if it were a black family's home, or a Mosque it would be (quite appropriately) labelled a hate crime as well. But hey, Catholics deserve it, right?

If they peed and broke stuff in a black family's home or in a mosque it would still be vandalism, not hate crime (or at least it shouldn't be classified as hate crime).

[articuno1au]

Don't nit pick, it makes you look immature! You know full well what I meant.

I merely sought clarification, which given your interactions with me in the past: Is, I think, completely reasonable.

I find that people very rarely say what they mean, and I wanted to know what you meant..

You really need to stop being so overarching in your condemnation of others..

Would you disagree with my analogy that it is as disrespectful as burning a Bible then, and if so why? I'm interested to know your views on that seeing as you are religious. I didn't edit my original post as far as I remember; what do you believe has changed?

The change (I wondered about) was merely a wording one that prompted the assumption statement right at the start of my reply :p Was just curious :)

This is an INSANELY complex question. What is the Bible?

The Bible began life as a collection of works by various peoples which were important of affective of their beliefs. It's kind of like a text book for Christianity :p It's what we believe, and thoughts about belief (and tons more then that).

It has been edited HUNDREDS of times. It was edited numerous times by the Romans. It was edited far more recently to be broken into Chapter and Verse by a monk. It was originally in Aramaic, Hebrew and a dozen other scripts. There are clearly translation issues as a result. Changes to suit the translators beliefs (To the point where there are at least 32 different "branches of the bible, each with dozens of revisions, dozens of versions and THOUSANDS of different ways to interpret the words in question (after being interpreted by the translator to start with)).

Thus clearly it is a document of MAN. Created by man, for man. Citing beliefs and theories as to life and existence. (To drive home my point here, the Bible says that Diameter by 3 = Circumference. Clearly this is wrong >.<)

What is it to a Christian? The word of God. It quite clearly isn't, however because people believe it is, it is so. Very Schroedinger'esque :p

This is (as per normal) a question of belief. Catholics believe that a blessing by a Saint or the Pope makes the item holy. Thus in theory, it could be like peeing on the cross Jesus died on.

Generally people don't think like this though. Most people see the water as a symbolic blessing. It could either be extremely offensive or not even a little.. Personally I believe people wouldn't be really offended by it. They would think it was wrong, but wouldn't take it as personally as the burning of their "beliefs book". The symbolic standing of the Bible is far greater then that of Holy Water.

Pain in the ass of an answer yes? I'd say it's less offensive then burning the Bible, but I'm sure you could find someone who thought it was a excommunicable offence >.<

Yeah, and if it were a black family's home, or a Mosque it would be (quite appropriately) labelled a hate crime as well. But hey, Catholics deserve it, right?

A hate crime is a social construct based on the previous wrong doings of society, and the resultant minority status of the previously wronged (that's why they were wronged after all).

It's not like Christians are without blame. Think of the various atrocities that have been committed by the Church, in the name of the Church, as a result of the Church or under the auspices of the Church..

Sure we didn't actually do these things, but people will always associate our beliefs with these actions.

EDIT::

@ Callum - To really drive home my point ;)

I know that Holy Water that is blessed by the Pope generally comes in a beautiful wooden box with silk lining and padding, in a beautiful bottle. Then there is that ^

It is what it is to the person in question >.<

[FireTalon]

So an attack against others' beliefs is fine as long as you disagree with the beliefs? Would you be so casual about it if the Lincoln Memorial or the Vietnam vets Memorial or the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier were vandalized? If someone painted obscenities on the Eiffel Tower or Parliament?

Or smaller scale - is it ok to put a burning cross on a black family's lawn? To beat up a gay couple just walking down the street? No?

Then why is this particular hate crime all right?

Yeah actually it is, when you know for a fact Lincoln and the vietnam memorial and the tomb of the unknown soldier were real and can be touched, unlike what a church represents. pure fiction.

[articuno1au]

Yeah actually it is, when you know for a fact Lincoln and the vietnam memorial and the tomb of the unknown soldier were real and can be touched, unlike what a church represents. pure fiction.

To you..

You don't believe it, thus it is fiction.

To the people that do believe, it is fact. There is no inherent right or wrong here.

Belief gives power. If people belief that murdering someone is wrong for religious beliefs, then they won't do it and as such good has come from the religion. Thus it has a power and nobility to it.

In the same way as the Marines have the code of silence. Marines till death etc etc. A belief that being a Marine makes you a certain class of man, which in turn leads to good things, with thus gives it a power.. So on and so forth..

/shrug

Personally I think destroying any of the things mentioned previously would be abhorrent.

[DConnell Member]

Yeah actually it is, when you know for a fact Lincoln and the vietnam memorial and the tomb of the unknown soldier were real and can be touched, unlike what a church represents. pure fiction.

So destroying someone's property is okay, as long as you don't put any value to it. Real nice attitude there.

[articuno1au]

How is it fact? There are no facts behind it, but magical fairy tales.

Facts are actual things that you can prove.

Just let it go, you can't win this battle.

Relativity. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.. Any of these things ring a bell?

Perhaps you might find a way in which I can debunk your point of view with them :)

[articuno1au]

Your mother and I are so proud of you right now..

I'm not trying to prove anything. Belief is inherently illogical, I'm just saying that both arguments deserve proper thought.

Relativity (your reality btw ;)) tells me that you are in fact the one trying to prove something..