412 replies to this topic 23 votes

[smooth3006]

i approve this thread and as ive said i may just skip w8 and stick to osx lion and w7 as a backup. im almost certain w7 will get a 2nd service pack. im tired of microsoft pushing metro down our throats, it's a horrid user interface IMO. windows did not need a refresh already, they had it almost perfect with w7.

[briangw]

TheLegendOfMart, on 08 February 2012 - 13:45, said:

Well it is, its the Metro ethics ported over to a desktop PC to pander to the iPad crowd.

No, it's related by its touch screen access, but the code is still probably 95 percent different.

[neufuse]

Cøi, on 08 February 2012 - 16:28, said:

That's a very black-and-white view on Windows' history, your last sentence proves that. Just after XP came out, many people actually hated it. Same with Vista, but the difference is it hasn't been forgotten yet. Before the actual Windows 7 came out, it got bashed as well (so that means Windows 8 isn't going to certainly fail).
Microsoft is also certainly not playing a good-bad-good-bad game.. People will actually always try to find patterns everywhere, but it doesn't mean that the future is clearly predictable.

I'm ONLY going by public opinnion after it was out for a while, not when its released, people still hate millennium, people still hate vista, it just seems to be the publics perception for some reason with microsoft

windows 7 wasn't really bashed, it was more praised as the fix all, windows vista was looked at as a failure from the start of the longhorn alpha.... XP was only "bashed" because of the UI Theme, and the fact this pattern exists isn't me saying its going to fail, I'm just saying they already planted the seeds of failure in peoples heads with some of the radical stories out there on it... and no mater what it wont fail, every new PC will have it... VIsta didnt "fail" it just was precieved as crap

[Stoffel]

neufuse, on 08 February 2012 - 16:35, said:

I'm ONLY going by public opinnion after it was out for a while, not when its released, people still hate millennium, people still hate vista, it just seems to be the publics perception for some reason with microsoft

Sadly enough public opinion is created by more technologically advanced people, like the people on this site.
They are already shooting Win8 down while it's not even in it's beta stage.

[StrikedOut]

When its in Beta I will stick it on a seperate HDD, put it into my laptop, make my own mind up and decide if I will update on release. All other 'reference/recomendations/opinions' will be taken with a pinch of salt.

As long as all my hardware and software is supported then Im happy.

[PyX]

Cøi, on 08 February 2012 - 15:20, said:

It's amazing how people just keep saying they'll switch to another OS because of some really early version of an OS they might not like..
It's still a DEVELOPER PREVIEW!

…which means there are developers out there that are currently working on apps that fit this Windows 8 ecosystem. Isn’t it alarming ?

Plus, Windows 8 will be released mid-late 2012. This is this year. They have about 8 months remaining to work on this if they want it to be in stores in November.

[azure.sapphire]

My god, twenty posts for a comment that is a link to an article that is really little more than flame-bait and, or trolling (or both). I, however, will contribute much two cents with:

1. No one needs Windows 8 on the desktop.
Wrong... incremental upgrades, are still upgrades.

2. Metro: An ugly, useless interface.
It is not a final product. Once you actually use it for a while, it grows on you. That said, however, is not to say that there does not need to be some significant tweaks for it to work smoothly on the desktop.

3. Where are the Windows 8 Applications?
I think it might have to do with the fact that it runs legacy apps. The applications taking advantage of the new API are likely going to be slow in coming, though they will be here in due time.

4. Vexed Windows developers.
See above.

5. Too little, too late for the smartphone/tablet market
Microsoft has a track record of always winning in the end. When in Vegas, you don't bet against the house. When in the tech industry, do not bet against Microsoft. They always win because they have the most to lose by not doing so.

[Stoffel]

PyX, on 08 February 2012 - 16:48, said:

…which means there are developers out there that are currently working on apps that fit this Windows 8 ecosystem. Isn’t it alarming ?

Plus, Windows 8 will be released mid-late 2012. This is this year. They have about 8 months remaining to work on this if they want it to be in stores in November.

Well everybody is bitching about a version that was delivered almost 5months ago. The people at MS are not sitting still, they've been working around the clock to fix problems and make it more useable.

[simplezz]

GreyWolf, on 07 February 2012 - 16:30, said:

I feel it will be a resounding success. Everyone I've showed the DP to has been quite pleased with it and it's not even feature-complete.

There's a difference between showing someone something, and them using it on a daily basis.

I'll reserve my judgement of Windows 8 until I see it myself, but all indications are leading towards DOA a la Vista as the article states. If it is DOA, I don't know how Ballmer can possibly remain in his current position.

[mikiem]

OK, so this thread was started by whomever to provoke everyone's response. Regardless the OP's motivation, it worked, & all these contributions made for a very interesting read -- some posts will undoubtedly be right, some of course will be wrong, but IMO the real value is in seeing what everyone thinks about win8 so close to the release of the public beta. As with past Windows versions, taken alltogether those opinions will have a lot to do with how fast win8 is adopted, & might even determine its eventual success, or lack thereof.

My own 2 cents, purely FWIW...

Historically, from what I remember, win95 made it past a lack of both software & drivers because it had a lot of new, better stuff to offer. 98 & 98SE were similarly seen as tech steps forward. Maybe because they didn't really promote ME, maybe because it was too different, it hardly seems a blip on the timeline -- I remember seeing it on new hardware, but hardly anywhere else... then like now I hardly noticed it mentioned on-line or off. Then came XP, with an intro that in hindsight seems most notable because the more hard core tech folks eventually where outvoted & ignored -- how many remember the heckling XP got for its Fisher Price GUI? But the world got past that & wound up accepting XP like no other Windows version before it -- something helped along by the rapidly increasing numbers of PCs/laptops sold. Then came the abject marketing failure that was Vista... At its core Vista was a great OS -- the hugely popular win7 is more-or-less Vista SE afterall -- but MS failed miserably when it came to marketing, which includes making sure what you're selling & what customers buy are for the most part the same thing. However you feel/felt about Steve Jobs, that's one thing he Really excelled at. Microsoft went on to learn from their mistakes, and that learning brought us Windows 7. Yes, win7 is newer/better than Vista in all sorts of ways, but if you look at what went wrong with Vista, then look at win7, it's fairly easy to see Microsoft's lessons learned.

I think win8 [or whatever it comes to be called] is a break from tradition, as they try to turn the behemoth that is Microsoft in new, not soley PC-centric directions. Up until now one part of MS did well with some hardware, another did corp IT, another brought us the Xbox etc... I think it only logical, common sense really, that they try to bring those various parts closer together for a more efficient whole. The Apple & Google Microsoft's competing with today & in the future are not the same companies they were 10 or even 5 years ago. As big as Facebook is, how long before they start thinking about other streams of revenue? IMO win8 is a logical step that had to happen, & if it sells a lot of copies, great -- if not MS can & will live with that.

Microsoft is doing a lot to promote their brand, & they'd like to lock you into using their on-line services, as long as that locking part doesn't start to hurt their numbers re: those on-line services. If win8 doesn't sell enough fast enough you'll likely be able to do the same things re: those on-line services in win7. MS is betting [maybe more than they originally thought] that maybe more casual users will love Metro & the whole idea of a unified screen across different hardware devices -- those that don't like it can easily turn it off & get a faster, more efficient Windows 7. If Metro takes off, it'll undoubtedly become more integrated -- if not, it'll become easier to get the traditional desktop. MS would like everyone to upgrade from win7 to win8, & to encourage that they've added new stuff, but nothing as radical as the move from XP to Vista -- it's all carrots & no sticks. In terms of total sales win8 could turn out to be another ME, but tech-wise, since the biggest change seems to be Metro, & you can turn that off if you like, I don't believe it'll ever be another Vista.

[smooth3006]

simplezz, on 08 February 2012 - 18:26, said:

There's a difference between showing someone something, and them using it on a daily basis.

I'll reserve my judgement of Windows 8 until I see it myself, but all indications are leading towards DOA a la Vista as the article states. If it is DOA, I don't know how Ballmer can possibly remain in his current position.

i agree with this too, ballmer will be gone if both wp7 & w8 is a failure. i give them props for trying but i just do not see good things coming out of this. i believe w8 could be the next windows me.

[simplezz]

azure.sapphire, on 08 February 2012 - 17:45, said:

1. No one needs Windows 8 on the desktop.
Wrong... incremental upgrades, are still upgrades.

I think the point was that, from a desktop user's point of view, Windows 8's nothing more than a small service pack. In terms of new features which benefit desktop users specifically, I think that view point is correct.

azure.sapphire, on 08 February 2012 - 17:45, said:

2. Metro: An ugly, useless interface.
It is not a final product. Once you actually use it for a while, it grows on you. That said, however, is not to say that there does not need to be some significant tweaks for it to work smoothly on the desktop.

It's true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder / subjective, but I can't help feeling myself, that while the tile UI might work on small 3/4 inch screens, anything bigger than that just doesn't look right (tablets, 20"+ screens).

azure.sapphire, on 08 February 2012 - 17:45, said:

3. Where are the Windows 8 Applications?
I think it might have to do with the fact that it runs legacy apps. The applications taking advantage of the new API are likely going to be slow in coming, though they will be here in due time.

I was under the impression that the ARM tablet versions won't run native legacy apps?

azure.sapphire, on 08 February 2012 - 17:45, said:

4. Vexed Windows developers.
See above.

Will Windows Phone 7 silverlight apps run on Windows 8? That would definately ease the pain for developers i'd imagine.

azure.sapphire, on 08 February 2012 - 17:45, said:

5. Too little, too late for the smartphone/tablet market
Microsoft has a track record of always winning in the end. When in Vegas, you don't bet against the house. When in the tech industry, do not bet against Microsoft. They always win because they have the most to lose by not doing so.

In the end I think it's going to come down to the price of Windows 8 tablets. If they're going to be selling for $800+, no one's going to buy one, except perhaps a few rich kids or businesses with cash to burn. That's going to be a challenge because Windows has traditionally needed greater hardware resources than competing operating systems, which in turn bumps up the BOM.

[pack34]

simplezz, on 08 February 2012 - 18:42, said:

I think the point was that, from a desktop user's point of view, Windows 8's nothing more than a small service pack. In terms of new features which benefit desktop users specifically, I think that view point is correct.

This point is moot. See Windows 7.

Quote

It's true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder / subjective, but I can't help feeling myself, that while the tile UI might work on small 3/4 inch screens, anything bigger than that just doesn't look right (tablets, 20"+ screens).

The start screen is supposed to have desktop improvements. We'll see how it all fleshes out with the consumer preview.

Quote

I was under the impression that the ARM tablet versions won't run native legacy apps?

There will be x86 based tablets.

Quote

Will Windows Phone 7 silverlight apps run on Windows 8? That would definately ease the pain for developers i'd imagine.

Yes they will

Quote

In the end I think it's going to come down to the price of Windows 8 tablets. If they're going to be selling for $800+, no one's going to buy one, except perhaps a few rich kids or businesses with cash to burn. That's going to be a challenge because Windows has traditionally needed greater hardware resources than competing operating systems, which in turn bumps up the BOM.

The $800+ figure is for x86 tablets. ARM based ones will be cheaper.

[mikiem]

smooth3006, on 08 February 2012 - 16:30, said:

i approve this thread and as ive said i may just skip w8 and stick to osx lion and w7 as a backup. im almost certain w7 will get a 2nd service pack. im tired of microsoft pushing metro down our throats, it's a horrid user interface IMO. windows did not need a refresh already, they had it almost perfect with w7.

The Desktop PC has never really moved beyond it's original, jack of all trades purpose -- the same basic hardware can be used for a server, an audio workstation, gaming etc... Yet the other half of that Jack of all trades thing is: Master Of None. More specialized hardware is & has been inevitable, whether you're talking cell phones or entertainment devices/hardware or refrigerators. MS would like to be an essential part of all that -- after all more people buy more new cell phones for example than they do PCs. Metro is a step in that direction, one that can work across devices/screens. On PCs it's also something than can, & often will be turned off.

With that in mind, I don't think MS is pushing anything down anyone's throat -- as I said in my earlier post, it's all carrots & no sticks... I can boot into XP Pro on this rig, & haven't seen any penalties from Microsoft because I was using their 2 generations old OS. My wife likes so-called casual games, & while she can boot into win7 64 whenever she likes, she prefers Vista where she feels they run faster/better -- she hasn't seen any penalties from Microsoft for using Vista. So if anyone doesn't like Metro, turn it off -- if you don't like having to trun it off, run win7.

[PGHammer]

mudslag, on 08 February 2012 - 05:00, said:

Again 2 of those screens are used for work majority of the time. I have one screen (computer) dedicated for charting, another (30") dedicated for trading and the middle screen is used for browsing, gaming and what ever else 90% of the time. Once in a blue moon Ill use that screen for extra trading info. So I may be a "outlier" in terms of hardware but when it comes to avg computing, Im really no different then anyone else. So my screens may be a bit larger then the avg user, that doesnt change the standard usage any less.

Which is *precisely* why they are called niche-customers and outliers.

If your hardware (or software) needs are vastly different from the median/base user of an operating system (any operating system) trying to cater to those outliers will (not may) detract into taking care of the needs of the majority of the user base.
It's not meant to be (or designed to be) a criticism - just the reality of where you as a user (in fact, most Neowinians that use Windows of any flavor) fit.


Also, Gerowen, if you only offer *incremental upgrades* to an operating system (service packs and the like) you get what happened between XP and Vista (it was *how long* between XP and Longhorn, for that matter?).