Recommended Posts

Anyone else go right back to Windows 7 after playing with 8 for a little while? I think it's kind of a mess and definitely not ready for prime time.

Me, I gave it a chance and really like it, but being a beta it was a bit iffy with some apps, I don't like having to go to the Metro screen whenever I want to open Explorer, so I guess I ended up pinning it. They really need to allow people to enable the start menu, or this is going to flop hard.

I hope they bring the start menu back. I believe they said metro will be disabled by default for desktops and non-touch screen laptops, so people can transition into it.

Well see though. I hear way too many requests to bring back the start menu.

Yeah after a few hours I got tired of it.... whereas up until the CP was released I was using the developer preview which to me was better.... (boots were simple and didn't require a reset to switch OSes and they seemed to have taken away the ability to use the scroll wheel on the left side of the screen to switch between apps)

Yeah I downloaded it and played just for a minute before work and was excited. After about an hour when I got home, it wasn't for me and I've spent the night reinstalling Windows 7. I guess that'll teach me to use a VM next time.

  • Like 2

I think there should be two modes or verisons for Windows 8. On my non-touch laptop, everything is just so awkward. I have to scroll my touchpad or mouse up and down to scroll horizontally.. and I have to take additional steps to just go to Control panel or run Windows Updates. I think Microsoft has long long way to go on this one.

Lol you guys got it all wrong. I haven't used my mouse for Windows 8 at all.

Windows explorer is Windows key + E (or if on the SuperBar it's Windows Key + top numbers on keyboard)

Anything I want to search for is the same as windows 7 albeit just full screen search now.

I don't know what you guys are complaining about.

The only chance I get to use metro is when my computer boots up, no search queries, just click & go.

After I'm on the Desktop I just do:

  • windows key
  • first few letters of program/settings from control panel to files and anything really
  • enter key

Simple, fast.

Metro pops for a half a second and my program/file/setting is already loading.

Although I'm not used to the full screen search, just the little search box that windows 7 used to be. It's no different from it.

  • Like 4

I'm using it right now, and I really like it, but I'll probably go back to windows 7 tomorrow. I actually had no problem getting used to the metro UI and really like the apps that they have included. My only problem with it is that I wish it was all Metro and not Metro / Aero.

Lol you guys got it all wrong. I haven't used my mouse for Windows 8 at all.

Windows explorer is Windows key + E (or if on the SuperBar it's Windows Key + top numbers on keyboard)

Anything I want to search for is the same as windows 7 albeit just full screen search now.

Windows key + search query + enter. The same for control panel settings, files and pretty much everything.

I don't know what you guys are complaining about.

Windows key + search query gives apps, you have to make an additional click if you want to get to settings or files, unlike in Windows 7.

2 hours is not enough time to judge an entire operating system. On the Developer preview I didn't really like it for the first 48 hours, but once I got used to how the OS worked and learned the gestures, I began to catch on and really enjoy the experience. Although my time is spent mostly in the desktop UI, the Metro apps really are much nicer than the apps that were around before. For example the mail app is much, much faster than Windows Live mail and the live tiles make it worth the switch.

Windows key + search query gives apps, you have to make an additional click if you want to get to settings or files, unlike in Windows 7.

No you don't, to search settings it's Windows Key + W.

Windows + F is to search files. Easy.

I gave it 1 hour and it was enough for me to NOT like it at all. I'm back to Win7 and I feel right at home. I much prefer OS X or Win7. MS wont get any money from me if Win8 stay that way. It may be fantastic for a touch screen, but it's crap for desktop use. And suddently, it's okay to learn new keystroke to do things? Wow, this seems backward in evolution.

How do you close/quit a Metro app? Do they stay open all the time?

And why do I feel like I'm dealing with 2 OS at the same time: Metro and Desktop? What does Win8 want to be?

I installed it on a VM, and on my wife's laptop early this morning. We both used it for our normal stuff all day long. We also both have (and absolutley love) Windows Phone 7.

Reverted the laptop to a Windows Home Server backup from last night, so it's back to normal.

The biggest issues for her were:

1) No ability to print in Mail

2) No Favorites in Immersive IE

3) No Search from Address Bar in Immersive IE

4) Not great for multi-tasking. She usually has multiple brower windows open, Windows Live Messenger and Windows Live Mail. While the multiple browsers can be addressed on the regular desktop, in that view there is no way to know if you have new instant messages or emails.

Overall it was not a great experience.

From my point of view (as a .NET developer) I was also disappointed. Doing simple things (like printing) seemed impossible and the apps are far from beta quality in my opinion. Switching back and forth between the start screen and the desktop (again, in Visual Studio all day long) seemed unnatural. I instant message with my wife all day long (even though we're in the same house, I'm in my office upstairs, so it's just easier) and switching between Visual Studio, to the start screen to get a new IM was a mess. I couldn't stand it.

  • Like 2

Gonna give it a try later when I have time to download/install it. It looks surprisingly good on that 82 " screen. I didn't think it would work on larger screen devices, but it looks like I might have been wrong.

How does the performance compare with Windows 7?

And why do I feel like I'm dealing with 2 OS at the same time: Metro and Desktop? What does Win8 want to be?

Like I've been saying in the thread, you're using it wrong. You're not supposed to stay in the metro interface, as a desktop user it's just an extension of Windows 7's orb that makes searches except it's fullscreen.

If you spend more than literally one second on metro you're doing it wrong. The search feature is fantastic, much better improved to find what you need. I don't use the mouse whatsoever on Metro. People just don't know how to use Windows 8 yet.

No you don't, to search settings it's Windows Key + W.

Windows + F is to search files. Easy.

While I didn't directly state it I was hoping that I implied it.... that having to learn 3 different shortcut commands to search quickly, which you don't have to do in Windows 7 is the main problem I was getting at. The average user is going to be making the extra click to get to what they want. For me they're adding more steps to do something... :/

While I didn't directly state it I was hoping that I implied it.... that having to learn 3 different shortcut commands to search quickly, which you don't have to do in Windows 7 is the main problem I was getting at. The average user is going to be making the extra click to get to what they want.

If anything Windows 7 has all those result types mixed together. It's so nice to have them separated so that you can find what you want. Not sort through each type files/windows settings and take a few seconds to click on what you actually want.

Then again that will only benefit power users, the only people that it's not benefiting is people who can't adapt to changes when there's actually tools to get what you want faster. The latter not being an opinion, but dare I say that having more shorcuts (tools) is a fact.

I installed it on a VM, and on my wife's laptop early this morning. We both used it for our normal stuff all day long. We also both have (and absolutley love) Windows Phone 7.

Reverted the laptop to a Windows Home Server backup from last night, so it's back to normal.

The biggest issues for her were:

1) No ability to print in Mail

2) No Favorites in Immersive IE

3) No Search from Address Bar in Immersive IE

4) Not great for multi-tasking. She usually has multiple brower windows open, Windows Live Messenger and Windows Live Mail. While the multiple browsers can be addressed on the regular desktop, in that view there is no way to know if you have new instant messages or emails.

Overall it was not a great experience.

From my point of view (as a .NET developer) I was also disappointed. Doing simple things (like printing) seemed impossible and the apps are far from beta quality in my opinion. Switching back and forth between the start screen and the desktop (again, in Visual Studio all day long) seemed unnatural. I instant message with my wife all day long (even though we're in the same house, I'm in my office upstairs, so it's just easier) and switching between Visual Studio, to the start screen to get a new IM was a mess. I couldn't stand it.

Metro IE has the same Windows key shortcuts that IE9 has: Win-E for search, Win-L for address entry.

Like I've been saying in the thread, you're using it wrong. You're not supposed to stay in the metro interface, as a desktop user it's just an extension of Windows 7's orb that makes searches except it's fullscreen.

If you spend more than literally one second on metro you're doing it wrong. The search feature is fantastic, much better improved to find what you need. I don't use the mouse whatsoever on Metro. People just don't know how to use Windows 8 yet.

Sorry, you're wrong. That "new" full screen start menu, Metro, is not just a new start menu. Metro apps are going to be around and you'll have to deal with Metro apps and Desktop apps and it's not gonna be pretty. And they don't seem to integrate all that well. If you're in the desktop and you get IM message in a Metro app, unless you have that apps on the "side" of your desktop screen, you have to switch over. It's crazy. The desktop seems to be for "old stuff" and Metro is going to be "futur stuff". But for now, it's a mess.

Sorry, you're wrong. That "new" full screen start menu, Metro, is not just a new start menu. Metro apps are going to be around and you'll have to deal with Metro apps and Desktop apps and it's not gonna be pretty. And they don't seem to integrate all that well. If you're in the desktop and you get IM message in a Metro app, unless you have that apps on the "side" of your desktop screen, you have to switch over. It's crazy. The desktop seems to be for "old stuff" and Metro is going to be "futur stuff". But for now, it's a mess.

If you don't like to use the mouse on the Metro screen, then learn to use it as a search box.

So with that, try to use just your keyboard and it's not a mess to get from desktop to metro and vice versa. It only takes a couple of keystrokes and you don't lose momentum. If you want to complain the only thing that you could really complain is for the few moments for metro to load for you to type what you want (if you're not already in

So no, I'm not wrong.

Everybody just has to get rid of whatever they used to think they knew and learn to adapt and see that it's actually better than they thought.

  • Like 2

If you don't like to use the mouse on the Metro screen, then learn to use it as a search box.

So with that, try to use just your keyboard and it's not a mess to get from desktop to metro. It only takes a couple of keystrokes and you don't lose momentum. If you want to complain the only thing that you could really complain is for the few moments for metro to load for you to type what you want.

So no, I'm not wrong. You're just arguing because you don't like it, and we all get that. Everybody just has to get rid of whatever they used to think they knew and learn to adapt and see that it's actually better than they thought.

Why is this the prevailing mindset? that we should just accept whatever a company puts out and be happy with it? The world today is really bizarre...

Why is this the prevailing mindset? that we should just accept whatever a company puts out and be happy with it? The world today is really bizarre...

No, but do you really think a company like Microsoft is dumb enough not to know what the difference is between Desktop users and Tablet users?

I don't know why people complain about Metro when you don't have to use it the majority of the time. Sure, you can bring up settings, but who really stays in settings longer than a few minutes? Your desktop experience will mostly be on your desktop and that's where you'll stay the biggest percentage of your time. Metro doesn't get in your way (once you used to it you'll only see that screen for quick moments). The only reason Metro would get in your way is if you didn't know how to use it. But the same can be said about any OS which people have no experience with.

It's not that I have a prevailing mindset. But I also want my point of view to be heard, backing it up with facts and tips. All I hear is opinions, but I don't see anyone trying to provide solutions or ways to make the switch easier for past pre-windows 8 users. I'm trying to help and at the same time try to explain to people that it's not as bad as they think or hear it is. Isn't that what a tech community is supposed to be about?

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Yup, that's a doozy right there 😄
    • It's a bundle of tools created by a variety of people, so things can go wrong sometimes. It's a great addition to Windows, and I use a lot of the tools on a daily basis. Also, it's still a 0.**** release so quick updates are to be expected 😉
    • Oh, I did. And it's even worse than I was hoping! Besides a lot of techno-babble jargon (yes I understand 100% of it but it's still all just techno-babble) there's 2 key points that make me super-weary about even considering testing this out. -- By default, after installation, a relay is automatically set up, so you do not need to care about that. * Non-chatmail apps use email servers as a long-term message archive while chatmail clients use email servers for ephemeral instant message relay. * Supporting the full variety of classic email setups would require considerable development and maintenance efforts, and complicate making chatmail-based messaging more resilient, reliable and fast. -- Basically, the end-user device is the 'server' (relay) so there is NO ARCHIVING whatsoever because every message is necessarily ephemeral. Great for techno-paranoia (and for illicit activities preferring no tracks to cover) but terrible for everybody else. It's also ironically contradictory to engineering principles of redundancies besides the transport layers due to the explicit absence of any persistent storage. Instead of 'classic email address' retaining multi-GB messaging archives on its server, now every device must retain 100% of those storage demands. (Email messages were originally meant to be short correspondences, not the multi-MB attachments boondoggle that now exists with unlimited spam engines flooding every potential recipient.) Any device swap or reset (or loss) makes the entire message history go bye-bye forever... lest there's an off-device auto-archival "relay" mechanism that's really a separate server that holds onto all transported messages (an email server) that utilizes 'chatmail email address' identities (like an email server) and its own persistent storage archive (like an email server). But... this solution is hoping to exist alongside real-world email address identities (based on the email server relay pathway) but simply render messages in chat thread format in an ephemeral manner (with contents being encrypted, and messages auto-expiring) ... In the end, it's a chat app/experience for the Web3/P2P-at-all-costs zealots. (I have accts on all sorts of federated web3 services so I understand the technical and non-technical alike.) For any practical users, however, it's just another service to download/install, register, cross-share id cards/qr codes, but know that there's no history/archive whatsoever (by design) so no account/message recovery whatsoever... update the device, install a bummed update patch, or dare upgrade your device... all history, poof, gone. Ya gotta start everything over again like they're a brand new person.
    • You've tried DuckDuckGo and Brave Search, now get serious with SearXNG by Paul Hill Over the last decade, it has become quite trendy to dump Google Search in favor of privacy-preserving alternatives such as DuckDuckGo, Startpage, and Brave Search. These search engines have done a very good job at highlighting dodgy practices by Google, such as adjusting search results based on what it thinks you’ll like (filter bubble) and stalking you around the web to advertise to you. While these search engines are good starting points when compared to non-private services like Google, there are still quite a few issues with them. For example, both DuckDuckGo and Brave Search require running non-free JavaScript in your web browser, which is comparable to running proprietary software on your computer, meaning you can be sure about what it’s actually doing in the background. Another issue is that these search engines are hosted on the respective companies’ servers, and you are using a service that you don’t control. Finally, DuckDuckGo, while offering privacy features, relies heavily on Microsoft’s infrastructure for its results and, in the past, has permitted Microsoft tracking scripts. If you are looking for a more private search solution than DuckDuckGo, Brave Search, and Startpage, then I recommend taking a look at SearXNG. It is a privacy-respecting metasearch engine that can be used via different public instances, which is useful for mobile users, or you can install it on your computer or server and run it locally with maximum control. Unlike Google, Bing, or Brave Search, which crawl the web and have their own search indexes, SearXNG is a metasearch engine, meaning it taps other search engines, stripping your identifying data, such as IP address, user agent, and cookies, in the process. Your search query is sent to the other search engines you enable before aggregating the results. SearXNG has deployment flexibility. If you are a casual user or a mobile user and don’t want to run SearXNG locally, you can use a public instance that is hosted by someone else. The main problem with this is that you are putting trust in the maintainer of the instance regarding stuff like logs that they may keep; good hosts should have a privacy policy explaining their policies. If you are trying to use SearXNG, you can also install the software on your device and then head to 127.0.0.1:8080 in your browser and search from there. While you don’t have to worry about a third-party admin like the public instances, search engines could ultimately block your IP address if they frown on you pulling in their search results locally. If you want to run it locally, it’s a good idea to use proxies or VPNs to hide your actual IP. You don’t have to worry about this with a public instance, as search engines never see your IP address. The main privacy benefit of using SearXNG is that it isolates your identity from the underlying engines that it’s capable of searching, such as Google and Bing. These search engines will only see requests coming from a generic server, so they can’t profile you and create a bubble filter that influences what results you see. This also ensures that your search engine doesn’t turn into an echo chamber that prevents you from reading alternative points of view. As a free software project, you are allowed to inspect SearXNG to make sure there are no negative features bundled inside. This sets it apart from the privacy search engines mentioned earlier because you can’t check their source code. As a meta search engine, you are not restricted to getting results from one source. Due to the fact that it scrapes content from other websites, your SearXNG instance will periodically get blocked from different providers, so it’s good to select a range of sources as a backup. While enabling all of the services will give you great results, this can make searching slower. I am personally happy with slower searches for the best results, but you can always check which providers are slowing down your search from the search results page and disable them to speed things up. If you want decent results quickly, enable the main search providers such as Google, Brave, DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Bing, and Yahoo. This way, you get wide coverage without the latency. On the Engines tab in Preferences, do note that there are different tabs, such as General, Images, and Videos, with their own providers that can be toggled and are not covered by "Enable all" while on the General tab, so be sure to dig into each. Just a note, if you want to enable everything, press "Enable all" in one tab, then hit save at the bottom of the page, then do the next tab, and so on. If you press "Enable all", then do that in each tab, and then save, nothing will stick. When I had just some of the search engines enabled, I searched “define nefarious” and results came back with the definition of “define” - obviously that was a sucky result. However, when I had everything enabled, it found dictionary pages for the word “nefarious” and even had an inline definition on the sidebar, which is quite nice too - that was delivered by WolframAlpha for anyone wondering! Probably the worst thing about this meta search engine is that the engines you select are saved with a cookie, so you must enable them on every new device you use SearXNG on, including if you decide to go into incognito mode with your web browser. Honestly, I would say this is the most annoying aspect, and perhaps if your browser lets you choose a separate private browsing search engine, then it would be best to use DuckDuckGo for this portion of your browsing. Another weakness of SearXNG is the random blocking of it by search providers. When you are on the results page, expand the “Response time” box, and it will show things like “Suspended: too many requests” or “access denied”. This is why it is good to enable several providers so that there is always a fallback to get results from. I won’t pretend SearXNG will be for everyone, however, if you enable all of the providers and put up with the slower response time, the results can be really amazing. Even if you don’t want to use it as your daily driver, keeping a bookmark handy that links to it is a good idea if you ever feel like doing a deep dive into a niche topic where other search engines are just failing to bring up any good result, due to the amount of sources it looks on. If you’re interested in radical user control over the software you use, installing SearXNG locally can also be a good idea, but be prepared to be temporarily blocked from sites if you trigger bot sensors without a VPN. Personally, I’ve opted to use a public instance, rather than install it myself. If you want to use it via a public instance, head over to searx.space to find a provider. Let us know in the comments if you have used SearXNG or its predecessor, Searx. What do you think about the quality of the results?
    • Dear Neowin, If it is not too much trouble, can you start using the new-ish designations for Insider Preview? "Experimental" is different than "former Dev" as it can apply to different models, eg 26H1 or 26H2 etc, right? No need to seed confusion IMHO. And, please "finally" update your graphics. OK?
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Woland13 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Woland13 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      bernmeister earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      503
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      226
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      158
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      75
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      71
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!