No Metro = Windows 7 SP 2. Don't like Metro, stick with Windows 7.

[Dot Matrix]

Metro UI is ugly, keep that garbage for systems with touchscreens but spare the PC at least. Microsoft thinks that their WP7 UI would be fine on a Desktop but who needs touchscreen features on a system with a Mouse and Keyboard. No wonder why Windows 8 will be dead on arrival.

Metro isn't just touchscreen. And I guarantee you in 20 years, we won't be using mice anymore.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

there are too many other great improvements made to just ignore Windows 8

I don't know about 'great improvements'. Personally, if Windows 8 was free, I'd actually prefer it to Windows 7 and just ignore Metro style apps. But I don't see a headline feature that would make W8 sans Metro worth the (probable) admission price. Unless you reboot your PC all the time or have a need for features like Storage Spaces, I wouldn't expect to see the big difference in day to day usage. Task manager improvements are nice to have but don't really get me excited about a new OS. While the explorer UI is changed it's debatable how much of an improvement has been made. As for the rest, I see quite a few niche features that are, again, nice to have but can't sell a whole OS. In that regard, I guess, I agree with the OP. For better or worse, Windows 8 is all about Metro.

[THolman Veteran]

Metro isn't just touchscreen. And I guarantee you in 20 years, we won't be using mice anymore.

Not even pros?

[Rickkins]

And I guarantee you in 20 years, we won't be using mice anymore.

In 20 years I'll be lucky if I remember my own name.

[Ci7]

Metro isn't just touchscreen. And I guarantee you in 20 years, we won't be using mice anymore.

unless i can control the PC with my mind or else No!

:p

[goofyinthehead]

Metro isn't just touchscreen. And I guarantee you in 20 years, we won't be using mice anymore.

Who cares about 20 years...what about now.

[The Laughing Man]

Metro isn't just touchscreen. And I guarantee you in 20 years, we won't be using mice anymore.

He still uses a mouse!

[Melfster]

I don't know about 'great improvements'. Personally, if Windows 8 was free, I'd actually prefer it to Windows 7 and just ignore Metro style apps. But I don't see a headline feature that would make W8 sans Metro worth the (probable) admission price. Unless you reboot your PC all the time or have a need for features like Storage Spaces, I wouldn't expect to see the big difference in day to day usage. Task manager improvements are nice to have but don't really get me excited about a new OS. While the explorer UI is changed it's debatable how much of an improvement has been made. As for the rest, I see quite a few niche features that are, again, nice to have but can't sell a whole OS. In that regard, I guess, I agree with the OP. For better or worse, Windows 8 is all about Metro.

I think vast majority of computer users get the OS preinstalled when the purchase a computer. Very few people comparable buy standalone os. Windows 8 is all about getting People consumers to buy a PC. I think the majority of PC sold in 4 years will be hybrid PC with Windows 8 installed.

[Kelxin]

I'll be retired in 20 years and won't give a crap what people are using then =p, but for the immediate future, yes, I will be staying on Windows 7, thanks.

[Dot Matrix]

Who cares about 20 years...what about now.

What about now? What about now says Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to change things?

[Kelxin]

Vista has proven Microsoft is allowed to change things. It also has proven we're allowed to black list a version of windows.

[Melfster]

Vista has proven Microsoft is allowed to change things. It also has proven we're allowed to black list a version of windows.

If your using Windows 7 your just using Vista with minor modifications.

[Seketh]

Metro isn't just touchscreen. And I guarantee you in 20 years, we won't be using mice anymore.

I don't think so. Touch and even Kinect technologies won't replace the mouse anytime soon. But hey, in 20 years, maybe we'll have another way to interact with the PC, one that anyone hasn't even imagined yet, so who knows.

If your using Windows 7 your just using Vista with minor modifications.

For example, I wouldn't say that the taskbar change from Vista to Windows 7 is minor. There are many improvements, and new details and changes all over the place, all of which you can't fit in a Service Pack.

Which brings me to my original post. Windows 8 has even more improvements and changes than the jump from Windows Vista to 7, but when you take Metro out of the equation, then the improvements aren't really that many, you can fit them in a Service Pack.

Without Metro, the difference from Windows 7 to 8 just isn't as significant as the difference from Vista to 7, which is my original argument. Metro is already deeply integrated in Windows 8, make that optional or take that out, and you have changes similar to a Service Pack. That's why taking Metro out of Windows 8 as we have it today is irrational.

[Sonne]

Right now, Metro is here to stay and it's the path Microsoft has chosen for Windows 8. Deal with it.

Thats exactly what people are going to do...by sticking with Windows 7 or jumping ship to Mac

[Dot Matrix]

Thats exactly what people are going to do...by sticking with Windows 7 or jumping ship to Mac

A lot of you aren't giving Metro a time to mature. I think by Windows 9, there will be greater acceptance towards Microsoft goals with it. We're moving towards a future where computing will be more dynamic, and fits to your life, where as right now, we're stuck with bland, static UI's, where you have to point and click everything.

If you want to keep pointing and clicking around, that's fine, but personally, I'm looking forward to having a more fluid, and dynamic UI, that I can change to fit my needs. You can't do that with Windows 9x, XP, or 7.

[PGHammer]

When I boot 8 I see metro, something I don't need, don't have any use for, is ugly and completely useless to me, that means it is in my way and I need to get it out of my way by going to the regular desktop before getting anything accomplished.

Basically, because you see the StartScreen *at all*, it's a distraction. (Never mind that it's a waypoint, and is far less obvious than the Start menu it replaces.)

Then answer me this - why wasn't the Start menu (in XP/Vista/7) a distraction?

I run very few WinRT applications OR games (for any filetype for which there are both traditional and WinRT options, I go traditional - not WinRT; generally because the traditional application suits my needs better). Will this continue to be the case? No idea - the jury has not yet realistically begun deliberations, as the OS has not yet released. However, for that very reason, I can't dismiss WinRT out of hand.

[~Johnny]

Without Metro, the difference from Windows 7 to 8 just isn't as significant as the difference from Vista to 7, which is my original argument. Metro is already deeply integrated in Windows 8, make that optional or take that out, and you have changes similar to a Service Pack. That's why taking Metro out of Windows 8 as we have it today is irrational.

Taking Metro out of Windows 8, and there's still enough new and changed in it to warrant it not being called a service pack. Service packs were intended as a roll-up collection of security and fix bugs or minor tweaks, not to add hosts of entirely new features and large performance improvements each time - and bar WinXP SP2 that's what they've mostly done.

Windows 8 has a lot of rather large changes to the Windows kernel itself, and whether it's improved shutdown and and bootup speeds thanks to the default partial hibernation, Windows to go, Refresh & Reset, improved multi monitor support, WDDM 1.2, ISO mounting, USB 3.0, etc etc

Only a couple of those would even be normal for a service pack, maybe USB 3.0 and ISO mounting at a stretch .

[Seketh]

Taking Metro out of Windows 8, and there's still enough new and changed in it to warrant it not being called a service pack. Service packs were intended as a roll-up collection of security and fix bugs or minor tweaks, not to add hosts of entirely new features and large performance improvements each time - and bar WinXP SP2 that's what they've mostly done.

Windows 8 has a lot of rather large changes to the Windows kernel itself, and whether it's improved shutdown and and bootup speeds thanks to the default partial hibernation, Windows to go, Refresh & Reset, improved multi monitor support, WDDM 1.2, ISO mounting, USB 3.0, etc etc

Only a couple of those would even be normal for a service pack, maybe USB 3.0 and ISO mounting at a stretch .

You seem to be forgetting Vista SP1: http://technet.micro...8(v=ws.10).aspx and Vista SP2: http://technet.micro...036.aspx?ppud=4

Let's compare the features you mentioned of Windows 8, with the features Service Packs added to Windows Vista:

Windows 8 USB 3.0 ------- SP1 Adds support for SD Advanced DMA (ADMA) on compliant SD standard host controllers. This new transfer mechanism, which is expected to be supported in SD controllers soon, will improve transfer performance and decrease CPU utilization. | SP2 integrates the Windows Vista Feature Pack for Wireless, which contains support for Bluetooth v2.1 and Windows Connect Now (WCN) Wi-Fi Configuration.

Windows 8 improved boot and shutdown ------------- Lot's of improvements in SP1 - SP2 improves performance for Wi-Fi connections after resuming from sleep. | S

P2 includes updates to the RSS feeds sidebar for improved performance and responsiveness. |

SP2 provides an improved power management (both on the server and the desktop), which includes the ability to manage these settings via Group Policy

Windows 8 ISO Mounting ------- SP1 Adds support for creating a single DVD media that boots on PCs with either BIOS or EFI. / SP2 includes ability to record data to Blu-Ray Disc media.

Windows 8 WDDM 1.2 --------- SP1 Adds support for Direct3D? 10.1, an update to Direct3D 10 that extends the API to support new hardware features, enabling 3D application and game developers to make more complete and efficient use of the upcoming generations of graphics hardware. | SP2 adds support for the 64-bit central processing unit (CPU) from VIA Technologies, which adds the ID and vendor strings for the new VIA 64-bit CPU.

Windows 2 Go in Windows 8 Enterprise -------- SP2 provides the Hyper-V virtualization environment as a fully integrated feature of Windows Server 2008, including one free instance with Windows Server 2008 Standard, four free instances with Windows Server 2008 Enterprise and an unlimited number of free instances with Windows Server 2008 Datacenter.

Windows 8 Refresh & Reset Metro based UI. Take Metro out, also take those features out. Still, let's compare --------- SP1 Adds support for new UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) industry standard PC firmware for 64-bit systems with functional parity with legacy BIOS firmware, which allows Windows Vista SP1 to install to GPT format disks, boot and resume from hibernate using UEFI firmware. | SP1 Adds support for x64 EFI network boot.

And a whole other changes that you can check out on the links.

So take out Metro and all Metro related funcionality out of the equation. Are you still going to say that Service Packs don't add that many features and improvements?

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Are you still going to say that Service Packs don't add that many features and improvements?

yes, because they usually don't add features, xp sp3 and vista sp2 are exceptions to that, it's very unlikely that Microsoft will port any of those features over to Windows 7 in a service pack

[Omen1393]

You seem to be forgetting Vista SP1: http://technet.micro...8(v=ws.10).aspx and Vista SP2: http://technet.micro...036.aspx?ppud=4

Let's compare the features you mentioned of Windows 8, with the features Service Packs added to Windows Vista:

Windows 8 USB 3.0 ------- SP1 Adds support for SD Advanced DMA (ADMA) on compliant SD standard host controllers. This new transfer mechanism, which is expected to be supported in SD controllers soon, will improve transfer performance and decrease CPU utilization. | SP2 integrates the Windows Vista Feature Pack for Wireless, which contains support for Bluetooth v2.1 and Windows Connect Now (WCN) Wi-Fi Configuration.

Windows 8 improved boot and shutdown ------------- Lot's of improvements in SP1 - SP2 improves performance for Wi-Fi connections after resuming from sleep. | S

P2 includes updates to the RSS feeds sidebar for improved performance and responsiveness. |

SP2 provides an improved power management (both on the server and the desktop), which includes the ability to manage these settings via Group Policy

Windows 8 ISO Mounting ------- SP1 Adds support for creating a single DVD media that boots on PCs with either BIOS or EFI. / SP2 includes ability to record data to Blu-Ray Disc media.

Windows 8 WDDM 1.2 --------- SP1 Adds support for Direct3D? 10.1, an update to Direct3D 10 that extends the API to support new hardware features, enabling 3D application and game developers to make more complete and efficient use of the upcoming generations of graphics hardware. | SP2 adds support for the 64-bit central processing unit (CPU) from VIA Technologies, which adds the ID and vendor strings for the new VIA 64-bit CPU.

Windows 2 Go in Windows 8 Enterprise -------- SP2 provides the Hyper-V virtualization environment as a fully integrated feature of Windows Server 2008, including one free instance with Windows Server 2008 Standard, four free instances with Windows Server 2008 Enterprise and an unlimited number of free instances with Windows Server 2008 Datacenter.

Windows 8 Refresh & Reset Metro based UI. Take Metro out, also take those features out. Still, let's compare --------- SP1 Adds support for new UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) industry standard PC firmware for 64-bit systems with functional parity with legacy BIOS firmware, which allows Windows Vista SP1 to install to GPT format disks, boot and resume from hibernate using UEFI firmware. | SP1 Adds support for x64 EFI network boot.

And a whole other changes that you can check out on the links.

So take out Metro and all Metro related funcionality out of the equation. Are you still going to say that Service Packs don't add that many features and improvements?

The way you're talking, you make it sound like Windows 7 could have been a service pack. If you take out the Metro, you still get improvements that are on par with the difference between Vista, and Windows 7.

[~Johnny]

And a whole other changes that you can check out on the links.

So take out Metro and all Metro related funcionality out of the equation. Are you still going to say that Service Packs don't add that many features and improvements?

Yes they add features and improvements - of course, considering how many hundreds of Windows Updates and driver updates are included in them - but the point is they're mostly small things - a little polishing here, support for a new little standard there. They're collections of small bits of work - they don't usually add very noticeable things that everyone uses everyday.

None of them usually significantly alter the Windows Kernel, or how Windows work. And the performance improvements in the SP aren't on the same level as what we see with 8 - Refresh & Reset work outside of Metro (they're Windows Recovery Features and in the WIndows Recovery bootloader), Direct 3D 10.1 is not comparable to WDDM 1.2 (the update to WDDM 1.1 in Windows 7 is comparable).

In fact, you could most probably find a list of little technical things like that that's MUCH bigger for the changes in Windows 8 from Windows 7 soon, with more visible and important changes along with some of the much bigger architectural changes that have gone on inside Windows.

And like someone has pointed out before, what draws the line from just calling Windows 7 a service pack? After all, one could look at it as a very simple evolution of Vista with a slightly different coat of paint and faster boot up if they want too to be narrow about it.

[.Neo]

Oh really? For example, some features of Vista SP2:

• Adds Windows Search 4.0 for faster and improved relevancy in searches.
  
• Contains the Bluetooth? 2.1 Feature Pack supporting the most recent specification for Bluetooth Technology.
  
• Ability to record data on to Blu-Ray? media natively in Windows Vista.
  
• Adds Windows Connect Now (WCN) to simplify Wi-Fi Configuration.
  
• Enables the exFAT file system to support Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) timestamps, which allows correct file synchronization across time zones.
  

Then why do I constantly keep seeing "I wish Metro was optional" posts then? I mean, in almost every news that come out about Windows 8, people write that in the comments.

I wouldn't call most of those new features, rather upgraded existing capabilities and obviously additional drivers. And I see you missed the word "usually" in my reply? Apparently many people want Microsoft to improve upon Windows Aero.

[goofyinthehead]

What about now? What about now says Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to change things?

Sure. but at what cost?

[excalpius]

It is not a finished product. It has bugs, quirks, giggles and the whole bit because it is beta.

"For the millionth time", Windows 8 has been essentially in its final state for almost a year now. The ONLY thing you will see between now and this summer's RTM are bug fixes and minor cosmetic improvements.

You are in denial if you don't realize that Microsoft NEVER makes major changes to its OS between the preview and RTM stages.

[bogas04]