win8 WIndows 8 vs OS 10.8

[AltecXP]

This is not intended to start a flame war, just express my opinion and see if anyone else feels the same way.

Honestly I moved to OS 10.5 when I started to get tired of using XP and Vista's performance bugged me, pre-SP1. When Windows 7 came out I found it very interesting and I enjoy using it at work, but with a good MacBook still having life in it I had no reason to switch, I alo enjoyed 10.6, and to a lesser extent 10.7. With 10.8 coming out and not liking its direction I was looking forward to Windows 8. After playing with the first public release I hoped to disable the Metro UI with a registry hack (I do not know if this still works or not), and then use the Explorer interface that I'm used to with it's Windows 8 additions. Now that the newest Preview is out I find myself again finding OS X as the better option. Which honestly really annoys me as I was looking forward to migrating back to Windows to avoid 10.8.

This time instead of migrating from an OS I don't like to one I find interesting, I find I'm picking the lesser of two evils. What worries me most is that my parents are in their 50's and my mother has been using a Windows computer since 3.1, currently on 7, and when I put her in front of Windows 8, it frustrated her so much that she walked away, came back a few hours later and then got annoyed again. An OS upgrade should never frustrate a long time user to the point that they give up on it, and feel they need to force themselves to learn it. I will probably just be leaving them on Windows 7 until it's no longer supported or end up moving them to a Mac, as they enjoy using my iPad.

Does anyone else feel that Windows 8 is going to be a black mark for any PC user not on a touch screen?

I personally feel torn between an OS that I don't like where it is started going to 10.7/8 and one that I feel jumped right into everything I hate with Windows 8, which I hoped would be the OS to pull me back to Windows after how much I enjoyed Windows 7.

[rfirth]

Do you really find the start screen that confusing? Windows 8 really isn't all that different from Windows 7.

While the apps right now might not be optimized for mouse, the start screen is very optimized for mouse users.

Don't forget that you have to learn how to use all software. Right click context menus aren't any more intuitive. What you consider to be intuitive is probably not as intuitive as you think.

[spaceelf]

New interfaces aren't for people with no desire to learn them. I suspect there's a generation gap on who's willing to adjust to the new stuff and who isn't.

[123456789A]

New interfaces aren't for people with no desire to learn them. I suspect there's a generation gap on who's willing to adjust to the new stuff and who isn't.

I don't even know if it's that. I've been a Windows user since 3.0, so I've been through a "relearning" already when 95 came out, and so far Windows 8 hasn't been a problem for me either. In fact, I find it to be pretty good, especially when more Metro programs become available. I'd say it's perfect for tablets and touch screens, and the desktop is still there, so I don't see what all the fuss is about. I can use my old programs just fine like I could in Windows 7.

[Princess Katie Pixie]

WIndows 8 start screen is only useful if you're downloading Metro applications from their store.

Other than that, it's just like a start menu where you hunt/search for applications that you have download from your desktop.

[+pmrd Subscriber²]

I don't even know if it's that. I've been a Windows user since 3.0, so I've been through a "relearning" already when 95 came out, and so far Windows 8 hasn't been a problem for me either. In fact, I find it to be pretty good, especially when more Metro programs become available. I'd say it's perfect for tablets and touch screens, and the desktop is still there, so I don't see what all the fuss is about. I can use my old programs just fine like I could in Windows 7.

STOP MAKING SENSE!!! :)

[rfirth]

and the desktop is still there, so I don't see what all the fuss is about. I can use my old programs just fine like I could in Windows 7.

Exactly. You can completely ignore WinRT on desktops. The only new thing you have to learn is the start screen. And that's not very difficult to learn.

The important thing for mouse users to learn is that you don't have to scroll. The start screen automatically scrolls for you when you move the mouse to the edge of the screen.

Other than that, it's just like a start menu where you hunt/search for applications that you have download from your desktop.

True. And that's not a bad thing.

[AltecXP]

Maybe my biggest issue is that I look at Windows 7 and think: "that looks beautiful" but when I look at Metro I think: "cluttered, messy, ugly, POS" Just looking at it really makes me feel hateful I like the interface on Windows Phone, but every time I try it on a desktop I just find myself getting angry, probably because I try to do what makes sense to me and find out that nope, thats not how it works, then I have to figure out how its supposed to work.

I just don't find it intuitive at all. LIke I said, my parents understood the iPad instantly with out having ever used an previous Apple device. Windows 8, they get frustrated at till they walk away.

[Raa]

I'd be happy with Windows 8 if they gave the option to disable Metro, for those of us happy with our desktops that don't need touch interfaces.

On a touch-enabled device, i'd like Metro.

Give us the choice. It's not that hard, and I seriously believe it would make people on both sides quite happy.

[greenwizard88]

Maybe my biggest issue is that I look at Windows 7 and think: "that looks beautiful" but when I look at Metro I think: "cluttered, messy, ugly, POS" Just looking at it really makes me feel hateful I like the interface on Windows Phone, but every time I try it on a desktop I just find myself getting angry, probably because I try to do what makes sense to me and find out that nope, thats not how it works, then I have to figure out how its supposed to work.

I had that problem with Windows Phone 7, it took me about 6 months to customize the start screen to my liking. But once I got it how I like it, I wouldn't ever go back to any other phone. Give it some time, wait for some quality apps... See how it goes.

[bilemke]

I'd be happy with Windows 8 if they gave the option to disable Metro, for those of us happy with our desktops that don't need touch interfaces.

On a touch-enabled device, i'd like Metro.

Give us the choice. It's not that hard, and I seriously believe it would make people on both sides quite happy.

The way I see it for the people not excited about Metro Apps......... stop thinking of it as a "Metro UI" and just think of it as a new start menu.

Remember Windows 2000 and earlier Windows classic Start menu? Remember that the default for XP was a wider non-classic Start menu? A few years later, Vista and then 7??

Where I work people are still stuck on the classic Start menu of XP in some cases.. They are in for a shock when they switch to 7..8... Don't use the Metro apps if you don't want to.. Get rid of all the link on the Metro Start page.??Put Desktop apps on it.. Then just think of it as a reallllly big Start menu.. Which, when you think about it, makes perfect sense.. How often do you click on the start menu to ponder over the stuff you have running in the background (behind the start menu anyway)? You click the start menu to to get to something in it.. Why not make it take up the whole screen so you can have access to even more?

This Start menu change has pretty much been happening ever since XP.

Regarding Windows 8 vs 10.8... Not thinking much of either vs their predecessors. Both are just improvements on the previous (7 and 10.7)... Mac users will probably stick with 10.8 and Windows users will probably stick with 8. Not likely to switch OS or something just because of the updates.

[Luis Mazza]

I find it interesting when Microsoft Angels come and tell you that "you have to learn" or that "it happened when 95 came out, or XP, whatever".

You guys are completely missing the point, because computers are now easier to use than before: the changes in UI were implemented because they added new features to improve people's productivity, That's not the case anymore. Microsoft has changed everything in Windows 8 not to make it more productive or add new features... The company made a MESS of an OS to try to grab the tablet market AND the desktop market.

It is clearly not pleasing any of those costumers because the OS is too heavy for a tablet (on heavy computer-like tablets) and it is a mess of an UI for desktop users.

Windows 8 did not improve the UI... It is a frankenstein UI. All of the other improvements in the desktop OS (which are great, BTW) are being totally eclipsed by this HORRIFYING, FRANKENSTEIN, NO SENSE UI.

Nobody has to "wait for the apps" or "wait for Microsoft" for this or that... There are already great OS that do the job, like Mac OS X and Windows 7.

This garbage is gonna flop hard. I can hardly believe a company the size of Microsoft, which does Windows for about 30 years could do such a shameless job with this OS.

[Noir Angel]

If it weren't for the fact that a lot of games that I play only worked on Windows I'd consider OSX as an option. The design of Windows 8 just isn't doing it for me at the moment.

[+virtorio MVC]

After using RP I'm still pretty much where I was with CP.

I like the way Metro looks and I'd be happy to use it on a phone and tablet (I have WP7 and really like it), but I hate navigating it and the apps with the mouse (it's not that I can't use it, I just don't like it). Using the multitouch trackpad on my MacBook (and surface on my Magic Mouse) makes it slightly better.

I suspect that I'll never run any Metro apps, except for apps that provide information I want via a live tile so I can quickly switch to Metro, glance at what I want, and then switch back to the Desktop (like a twitter client, RSS reader, e-mail notifications - that sort of thing).

Also, pretty much all the software I use is for design and development. I don't believe the Metro workflow is going to be any good for these kinds of programs.

I also find myself getting annoyed by the charms bar showing up when I'm on the desktop.

That said, I quite like using the search for launching and finding programs, and at the end of the day I'll primarily be using it for.

That real problem I think Microsoft is going to have is not with users like us, but with average users. Every single person I've shown it to can't stand it, and at least half of them have said their next computer will be a Mac.

The changes in 10.7 and 10.8 are implemented in a much smarter way in my opinion.

[Colin McGregor]

omg damn you MS for changing something that takes even my sister (who knows squat about pcs btw) a day tops to learn and enjoy. The fact people talk about it like its so hard to use or that its crippling is making me doubt the *tech* intelligence of some people here.

[Noir Angel]

omg damn you MS for changing something that takes even my sister (who knows squat about pcs btw) a day tops to learn and enjoy. The fact people talk about it like its so hard to use or that its crippling is making me doubt the *tech* intelligence of some people here.

Yeah, because we happen not to like something it just happens to logically follow that we simply must be idiots that don't understand it. I mean WinRT is simply so awesome that it's inconceivable for a person to have a legitimate reason to want not to use it. Perhaps we'd all be better off being drones that simply did what we are told and didn't dare to have opinions of our own.

Or in the words of Phillip J Fry "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!!!!"

[Luis Mazza]

omg damn you MS for changing something that takes even my sister (who knows squat about pcs btw) a day tops to learn and enjoy. The fact people talk about it like its so hard to use or that its crippling is making me doubt the *tech* intelligence of some people here.

I wonder what your sister does with the PC other than messaging, web and photo browsing.

Give her an iPad and she will enjoy it even more.

[Seketh]

I find it interesting when Microsoft Angels come and tell you that "you have to learn" or that "it happened when 95 came out, or XP, whatever".

You guys are completely missing the point, because computers are now easier to use than before: the changes in UI were implemented because they added new features to improve people's productivity, That's not the case anymore. Microsoft has changed everything in Windows 8 not to make it more productive or add new features... The company made a MESS of an OS to try to grab the tablet market AND the desktop market.

It is clearly not pleasing any of those costumers because the OS is too heavy for a tablet (on heavy computer-like tablets) and it is a mess of an UI for desktop users.

Windows 8 did not improve the UI... It is a frankenstein UI. All of the other improvements in the desktop OS (which are great, BTW) are being totally eclipsed by this HORRIFYING, FRANKENSTEIN, NO SENSE UI.

Nobody has to "wait for the apps" or "wait for Microsoft" for this or that... There are already great OS that do the job, like Mac OS X and Windows 7.

This garbage is gonna flop hard. I can hardly believe a company the size of Microsoft, which does Windows for about 30 years could do such a shameless job with this OS.

Your whole argument about productivity is the same as these, and fails in the same way:

• ?Mice are nice ideas, but of dubious value for business users? (George Vinall, PC Week, April 24, 1984)
  
• ?There is no evidence that people want to use these things.? (John C. Dvorak, San Francisco Examiner, February 19, 1984)
  
• ?I was having lots of fun, but in the back of my corporate mind, I couldn't help but think about productivity.? (George Vinall, PC Week, April 24, 1984)
  
• ?Does the mouse make the computer more accessible, more friendly, to certain target audiences such as executives? The answer is no.? (Computerworld, October 31, 1983)
  
• ?There is no possibility that this device will feel more comfortable to the executive than the keyboard. Because of its ?rollability,? the mouse has the aura of a gimmick?? (Computerworld, October 31, 1983)
  
• ?The mouse and its friends are merely diversions in this process. What sounds revolutionary does not necessarily help anyone with anything, and therein lies the true test of commercial longevity.? (David A. Kay, Datamation, October 1983)
  

[Luis Mazza]

Your whole argument about productivity is the same as these, and fails in the same way:

I don't even know why I'm gonna answer to this misunderstanding, because you can't even post something without a garbage and you copy and paste arguments out of nowhere.

Anyway... I did not bash the touch interface, I'm criticizing the complete bad use of it, trying to fit it with a mouse UI.

Can you understand that or is it too hard for you??

[BajiRav]

I don't even know why I'm gonna answer to this misunderstanding, because you can't even post something without a garbage and you copy and paste arguments out of nowhere.

Anyway... I did not bash the touch interface, I'm criticizing the complete bad use of it, trying to fit it with a mouse UI.

Can you understand that or is it too hard for you??

Uh...don't use metro apps on non-touch PCs? Pin only desktop apps and be done?

[Luis Mazza]

Uh...don't use metro apps on non-touch PCs? Pin only desktop apps and be done?

What do I do with the annoying "Charm Bar" showing up every time I point the mouse to the bottom right of the screen?

Why do I have to search for Administrative Tools inside the search box of the Control Panel only and not from the search in the Charm Bar?

What is this name "Charm Bar" anyway?

Why checkdisk is replaced with a black screen when I boot up?

Why can't I simply disable Metro?

Whats the benefit of pulling the screen down to view all of those tiles?

Why a high resolution display looks horrible even on high DPIs?

Those are only a few annoyances.

[grayscale]

Uh...don't use metro apps on non-touch PCs? Pin only desktop apps and be done?

^This.

It's not as if you're always forced to stare at the start screen. When you login and be presented with the start screen, press ESC and just run desktop apps as if you're on Win7,

[rfirth]

Uh...don't use metro apps on non-touch PCs? Pin only desktop apps and be done?

If you're using a desktop computer, this is what you should be doing.

Anyone complaining that metro apps don't work well on the desktop is trying to dig trenches with silver spoons... by choice! Don't like metro apps? Don't use them. The-Desktop-Is-Still-There.gif

The start screen is a nice task launcher, even on desktop computers. It's much easier to navigate with a mouse than the old start menu. No need to manually scroll.

[Melfster]

I actually find windows 8 desktop to be faster then Windows 7. I really don't have a problem with metro interface but I don't use it..., Maybe on a table I would use it more. Anytime anyone changes anything for any reason people cry all the time just suck it up and use it or don't use it. But stop complaining.

[spaceelf]

I find it interesting when Microsoft Angels come and tell you that "you have to learn" or that "it happened when 95 came out, or XP, whatever".

You guys are completely missing the point, because computers are now easier to use than before: the changes in UI were implemented because they added new features to improve people's productivity, That's not the case anymore. Microsoft has changed everything in Windows 8 not to make it more productive or add new features... The company made a MESS of an OS to try to grab the tablet market AND the desktop market.

It is clearly not pleasing any of those costumers because the OS is too heavy for a tablet (on heavy computer-like tablets) and it is a mess of an UI for desktop users.

Windows 8 did not improve the UI... It is a frankenstein UI. All of the other improvements in the desktop OS (which are great, BTW) are being totally eclipsed by this HORRIFYING, FRANKENSTEIN, NO SENSE UI.

Nobody has to "wait for the apps" or "wait for Microsoft" for this or that... There are already great OS that do the job, like Mac OS X and Windows 7.

This garbage is gonna flop hard. I can hardly believe a company the size of Microsoft, which does Windows for about 30 years could do such a shameless job with this OS.

I'm an angel? Sweet. (*polishes obviously tarnished chrome halo*)

And I am far more productive in 8 than I was in 7. ON A DESKTOP! WOO!