Are WinRT apps 'tablet apps'?

[Calum Veteran]

EDIT: All off-topic posts from this thread have been moved over to this new, official thread for such discussion. This post was the first off-topic post in the thread. Please feel free to continue this discussion here :)

Got them uninstalled, it resets associations to normal Windows programs. I should have tried it before asking but I just figured that removing those from start screen doesn't remove them from Windows, thats usually been the case with Windows.

[. . .]

I feel I should point out, there is a problem with how you're referring to apps and programs in Windows 8.

As others have pointed out, the "Metro" apps are not "tablet apps." They are designed for many different formfactors, including notebooks and desktops, and they are designed to be operated by either fingers or a mouse and keyboard. Referring to them as "tablet apps," just because you believe they work better on a tablet is a pretty ignorant way of posting, especially when you are asking for help?it indicates that you haven't put any thought into trying to understand Windows 8 before asking about your problem. The same possibly goes for the post I've quoted above, in which you refer to the previous Windows programs as "normal programs." I suppose they could be referred to as "normal" in the sense that they are currently the most used by computer users, but I suspect you meant "normal" in another sense.

[Active.]

I feel I should point out, there is a problem with how you're referring to apps and programs in Windows 8.

As others have pointed out, the "Metro" apps are not "tablet apps." They are designed for many different formfactors, including notebooks and desktops, and they are designed to be operated by either fingers or a mouse and keyboard. Referring to them as "tablet apps," just because you believe they work better on a tablet is a pretty ignorant way of posting, especially when you are asking for help?it indicates that you haven't put any thought into trying to understand Windows 8 before asking about your problem. The same possibly goes for the post I've quoted above, in which you refer to the previous Windows programs as "normal programs." I suppose they could be referred to as "normal" in the sense that they are currently the most used by computer users, but I suspect you meant "normal" in another sense.

I suspect he meant "normal" as in they behave the way you'd expect it for Windows apps, i.e. aking advantage of the window paradigm . "Metro" apps on the other hand behave the way one expects tablet apps to behave. In that sense they're anything but "normal" on a traditional Windows PC. They work nothing like any Windows app did before.I wouldn't at all be surprised if "tablet apps" were to become the name given to "Metro" apps by the general consumer.

[Calum Veteran]

I suspect he meant "normal" as in they behave the way you'd expect it for Windows apps, i.e. aking advantage of the window paradigm . "Metro" apps on the other hand behave the way one expects tablet apps to behave. In that sense they're anything but "normal" on a traditional Windows PC. They work nothing like any Windows app did before.I wouldn't at all be surprised if "tablet apps" were to become the name given to "Metro" apps by the general consumer.

As I mention, all of that indicates that the person hasn't bothered to try to understand Windows 8, the reasons for the changes, and how it works :) I'm not suggesting anyone has to think this new Windows experience is better or that they should agree that the changes are good for the desktop formfactor, but I feel that everyone should try to understand Microsoft's viewpoint and what they intended, rather than resorting to false labels ("tablet apps") and misunderstanding (expecting apps in Windows 8 to work like they did in previous versions of Windows).

[.Neo]

As I mention, all of that indicates that the person hasn't bothered to try to understand Windows 8, the reasons for the changes, and how it works :) I'm not suggesting anyone has to think this new Windows experience is better, but I feel that everyone should try to understand the changes, rather than resorting to false labels ("tablet apps") and misunderstanding (expecting apps in Windows 8 to work like they did in previous versions of Windows).

Quite frankly I really couldn't care less what fairytale Microsoft would love us to believe in when it comes to this. It's extremely obvious Metro has been designed largely with tablets / touch screen input in mind. The definite name for "Windows 8 apps" is still up in the air as well. We all knew exactly what the OP meant.

[Active.]

I feel that everyone should try to understand Microsoft's viewpoint and what they intended, rather than resorting to false labels ("tablet apps") and misunderstanding (expecting apps in Windows 8 to work like they did in previous versions of Windows).

To be fair, it's hard to come up with the right label these days when the naming conventions are still in a state of flux (immersive/Metro/Windows 8 style/modern ..). It seems to me everyone immediately understood what the OP meant by "tablet apps". I also think that there is widespread agreement (in reviews and such) that these apps actually do work best on a tablet.

[Calum Veteran]

To be fair, it's hard to come up with the right label these days when the naming conventions are still in a state of flux (immersive/Metro/Windows 8 style/modern ..). It seems to me everyone immediately understood what the OP meant by "tablet apps". I also think that there is widespread agreement (in reviews and such) that these apps actually do work best on a tablet.

I'm not disputing any of that. It's just how it comes across to me?someone asking for such help while refering to the apps as "tablet apps," is indicating that they don't understand that the apps were also designed for desktops/notebooks and that they thus haven't even tried to understand the idea for Windows 8.

Perhaps I wouldn't mind if it was another type of question, but this question was phrased in a way that suggested he wanted to remove the apps because he believes they're only designed for a tablet and he isn't using a tablet.

We surely don't need a debate about this?I was just pointing out to him that these aren't "tablet apps," which is true.

[.Neo]

Calum, with all do respect I believe you should try to understand that not everyone is like you and phrases things differently. You frequently seem to have issues when people don't explain things in great detail and expect, sometimes, unrealistic accuracy of them. This isn't a personal attack by any means, just something you might want to think about.

That's the only thing I wanted to add to this.

[@Leo]

I'm not disputing any of that. It's just how it comes across to me?someone asking for such help while referring to the apps as "tablet apps," is indicating that they don't understand that the apps were also designed for desktops/notebooks and that they thus haven't even tried to understand the idea for Windows 8.

Perhaps I wouldn't mind if it was another type of question, but this question was phrased in a way that suggested he wanted to remove the apps because he believes they're only designed for a tablet and he isn't using a tablet.

We surely don't need a debate about this?I was just pointing out to him that these aren't "tablet apps," which is true.

Get over yourself. :rolleyes:

Just because you have fallen for the brainwashing, or are a primary tablet user, or are a simpleton (see my sig), who can only focus on one application at a time (or two, but one has to be tiny on the side), not everyone else is. When I run the iOS simulator, guess what, the tablet apps that are there and I work on work with a mouse and keyboard. They are still tablet apps. Simple, designed as singleton, tablet applications. Nothing wrong with that - I wouldn't want OS X on my iPad, or Ubuntu on Android tablets, or Windows 7 on Surface. But I don't want iOS on my Air, I don't want Android on my PC and I don't want the tablet UI known as metro on my desktop either. Tablet tablet tablet. Big, simple, one app at a time, tablet.

And all you did with your stupid condescending posts was to start yet another flame, err, sorry, "debate". :rolleyes:

[Calum Veteran]

Get over yourself. :rolleyes:

Just because you have fallen for the brainwashing, or are a primary tablet user, or are a simpleton (see my sig), who can only focus on one application at a time (or two, but one has to be tiny on the side), not everyone else is. When I run the iOS simulator, guess what, the tablet apps that are there and I work on work with a mouse and keyboard. They are still tablet apps. Simple, designed as singleton, tablet applications. Nothing wrong with that - I wouldn't want OS X on my iPad, or Ubuntu on Android tablets, or Windows 7 on Surface. But I don't want iOS on my Air, I don't want Android on my PC and I don't want the tablet UI known as metro on my desktop either. Tablet tablet tablet. Big, simple, one app at a time, tablet.

And all you did with your stupid condescending posts was to start yet another flame, err, sorry, "debate". :rolleyes:

"Get over myself"? How about you stop being rude and always speak to people politely in life.

We have differing opinions. That doesn't mean you need to act like a terrible person.

I haven't fallen for any "brainwashing." I merely kept an open mind, used Windows 8 for ages, compared my user experience to the user experience Windows 7 provides, and realised that Windows 8 provides a much better user experience for me, as a software developer, a software designer, and an end user.

I didn't start any kind of flamewar. Someone referred to the apps in an incorrect way, and I corrected that person because I'm pedantic. None of that invites anyone to flame anyone. Further, my posts aren't condescending, or stupid, for that matter.

[@Leo]

I act terrible to terrible condescending posters. You will pardon me for not sweating over the fact you are a mod. Pedantic or not, there is no reason to act like this.

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

Calum, for the record, you are 100% dead wrong about them being called "metro" apps. It constantly baffles me that people will berate others for using improper terminology, while then sharing improper terminology.

[. . .]

I didn't state at all that they are called Metro apps :s I personally referred to them as "Metro" apps (using quotation marks) because that is the codename Microsoft used while Windows 8 was in development, but I didn't once state that that is the name for them.

It baffles me when people misrepresent my views, indicating they haven't even read my posts before replying to them.

Please read my posts correctly in future before replying to them and misrepresenting my views.

I act terrible to terrible condescending posters. You will pardon me for not sweating over the fact you are a mod. Pedantic or not, there is no reason to act like this.

Why should people not be corrected, if they post incorrect information? My post was polite and considerate. As I stated, I just wanted to help him because it seemed he wanted to get rid of the apps because he thought they were designed for tablets only. So I thought that if I informed him that Microsoft also designed them for desktops and notebooks, he might give them a go. It was only a polite bit of help that could have gone ignored. I don't see why anyone should have had a go at me for it, because I wasn't doing anything wrong, and I certainly wasn't trying to be condescending. Do you believe correcting someone is always condescending? If not, how else does one correct another?

[@Leo]

Incorrect information in your eyes is not universally incorrect. In my eyes he is one 100% percent correct. It also wasn't about you "correcting him" but the way you did it. You barged in, mr. factious, and posted in an unfitting manner.

Your reasoning for "correcting" him or looking to "help" him is nonsense. He said he does not want preview applications to open in full screen, but in normal desktop behavior, open in regular desktop preview, like content should, when coming from desktop. So how exactly did you see this as him not understanding tablet apps can be used on the desktop as well and barged to "correct" him?

tablet tablet tablet

[Calum Veteran]

Incorrect information in your eyes is not universally incorrect. In my eyes he is one 100% percent correct. It also wasn't about you "correcting him" but the way you did it. You barged in, mr. factious, and posted in a subpar manner.

tablet tablet tablet

Saying I "corrected him" might not be correct then, but I'm not sure because isn't "tablet apps" a factually incorrect label, considering they were designed for desktops and notebooks, even if you believe they only work well on a tablet?

Either way, because they were designed for desktops and notebooks, I thought it was best to point that out to him. If he hadn't referred to them as "tablet apps," I wouldn't have done that. But I shouldn't be the one to get hounded. If someone erroneously calls them "tablet apps," I will point out that the apps were designed for desktops and notebooks as well as tablets. It's only fair. Microsoft are getting enough unreasonable criticism as it is (although some is of course reasonable, even some of the criticism by those who believe the apps only work well on tablets).

I didn't barge in. I posted in a topic that anyone is allowed to post in, and my post shouldn't have derailed the thread in any way, as it didn't require much of a response and was on topic to what the author had posted. As I've mentioned, I feel it's important for someone to point these things out to people. I don't believe that suggesting someone is using the wrong terminology is bad or condescending in any way. What do you mean by 'subpar manner'? I was very polite, considerate, and trying to be helpful. It's only condescending if you read it in that tone?a tone I did not intend, and a tone that it shouldn't be read in. It's hard to convey tone via written communication, and this just appears to be a case of someone reading my post in a different tone to what was intended. It's happened before, and it's perhaps understandable, due to there being pretty much no way for me to convey my intended tone via written communication.

[@Leo]

Saying I "corrected him" might not be correct then, but I'm not sure because isn't "tablet apps" a factually incorrect label, considering they were designed for desktops and notebooks, even if you believe they only work well on a tablet?

Either way, because they were designed for desktops and notebooks, I thought it was best to point that out to him. If he hadn't referred to them as "tablet apps," I wouldn't have done that. But I shouldn't be the one to get hounded. If someone erroneously calls them "tablet apps," I will point out that the apps were designed for desktops and notebooks as well as tablets. It's only fair. Microsoft are getting enough unreasonable criticism as it is (although some is of course reasonable, even some of the criticism by those who believe the apps only work well on tablets).

I didn't barge in. I posted in a topic that anyone is allowed to post in. As I've mentioned, I feel it's important for someone to point these things out to people. I don't believe that suggesting someone is using the wrong terminology is bad or condescending in any way. What do you mean by subpar manner? I was very polite, considerate, and trying to be helpful. It's only condescending if you read it in that tone?a tone I did not intend, and a tone that it shouldn't be read in. It's hard to convey tone via written communication, and this just appears to be a case of someone reading my post in a different tone to what was intended. It's happened before, and it's perhaps understandable, due to there being pretty much no way for me to convey my intended tone via written communication.

Again, just because you are convinced they have been designed for both tablet and desktop does not make it so. Just like a phone application is not really a tablet application, if it runs on both phone and tablet. Despite a silly developer claiming to have "designed" it for both (running to see that it works on a platform does not make it "designed" for it). When people say "tablet app", they mean primarily designed for tablet. Indeed, that is what it is. Look at Office 2013 - it has support for touch, but it is a desktop software - desktop software with support for touch. Metro apps are tablet software with support for mouse. "Designed for" and "compatible with" are wholly different concepts.

[Calum Veteran]

Calum, with all do respect I believe you should try to understand that not everyone is like you and phrases things differently. You frequently seem to have issues when people don't explain things in great detail and expect, sometimes, unrealistic accuracy of them. This isn't a personal attack by any means, just something you might want to think about.

That's the only thing I wanted to add to this.

Thank you for being courteous when saying this to me, unlike some people. As you may be aware, I am honestly not trying to be irritating :p and I am trying to help. I'm just very, very pedantic, and I believe the term "tablet apps" influences unreasonable criticism, considering that Microsoft did design them for desktops and notebooks, too, even if they only work well on tablets.

I will definitely think about what you've said there, and I will try to get over things like this :p

[@Leo]

Now I feel bad.. :(

[Calum Veteran]

Again, just because you are convinced they have been designed for both tablet and desktop does not make it so. Just like a phone application is not really a tablet application, if it runs on both phone and tablet. Despite a silly developer claiming to have "designed" it for both (running to see that it works on a platform does not make it "designed" for it). When people say "tablet app", they mean primarily designed for tablet. Indeed, that is what it is. Look at Office 2013 - it has support for touch, but it is a desktop software - desktop software with support for touch. Metro apps are tablet software with support for mouse. "Designed for" and "compatible with" are wholly different concepts.

I think it's just down to how we both define the term "tablet app," and I may be wrong. I believe something can only be called a "tablet app" if it was only intended for tablets. Even if it works awfully on desktops but the developer intended it for use on desktops, I don't believe it can be reasonably called a "tablet app," and I think such terminology could be dangerous for people's perceptions of Microsoft.

But I understand that some people don't intend it in that way, and even though I believe it could lead people to view Microsoft in an unfair way, I understand that some people just mean they feel the apps work better on a tablet.

As I said to Neo., I will think about what you've both said, and I will try to get over this. Thanks for the advice :)

It's probably best we let this topic get back on topic now, though :) Although it seems his problem is sorted.

[Anthonyd]

He said he does not want preview applications to open in full screen, but in normal desktop behavior, open in regular desktop preview, like content should, when coming from desktop. So how exactly did you see this as him not understanding tablet apps can be used on the desktop as well and barged to "correct" him?

I play games in full screen, I watch movies in full screen, does that makes my PC a tablet? Oo

[@Leo]

I play games in full screen, I watch movies in full screen, does that makes my PC a tablet? Oo

Genius examples mate, take two extreme examples and project them all across computer usage. (Y)

[Calum Veteran]

Now I feel bad.. :(

If that's serious, then no worries, and I'm sorry my post came across as condescending (I am going to try to think of how to better phrase things in future). It honestly wasn't intentional :) I just need to get over my pedantic ideals in some cases :p

[@Leo]

If that's serious, then no worries, and I'm sorry my post came across as condescending (I am going to try to think of how to better phrase things in future). It honestly wasn't intentional :) I just need to get over my pedantic ideals in some cases :p

:rose:

:)

[Rickkins]

I'm not disputing any of that. It's just how it comes across to me?someone asking for such help while refering to the apps as "tablet apps," is indicating that they don't understand that the apps were also designed for desktops/notebooks and that they thus haven't even tried to understand the idea for Windows 8.

What a load of horseploppy. Everybody knew exactly what the op was talking about, because that is exactly what they are. No matter how much you try to polish it, this turd(metro) will never shine.

To the op, dump them, install classic shell, and win8 becomes wonderfully usable just like that. You never ever have to look at the metro(or whatever they're calling it this week) again.

[Dot Matrix]

What a load of horseploppy. Everybody knew exactly what the op was talking about, because that is exactly what they are. No matter how much you try to polish it, this turd(metro) will never shine.

This doesn't add to your credibility. I've been using nothing but Modern apps on my notebook for the past week since I've started back at school, and so far, they're working wonderfully. The only time I see the desktop is to use Word and Excel.

[MFH]

@Calum: What happend? You're on the pro-Windows-8-side again :)

[f0rk_b0mb]

No they are not, they work perfectly on non-touchscreen computers and will eventually replace desktop apps (for casual users).

They were designed for tablets. Period.