171 replies to this topic

[Julius Caro]

PmRd, on 13 August 2012 - 07:43, said:

Lol, right click on it and press uninstall... Was that so hard to figure out? And FYI they are not "tablet apps"

oh FFS. not even microsoft can agree on what to call these now. metro, modern, formerly-known-as-metro, windows 8 style.

and tablet app is not even a gross inaccuracy.

[MFH]

Shane Nokes, on 24 August 2012 - 20:34, said:

That was my point. I was questioning his statement that they were '...designed for tablets. Period,' since it works just fine for me.

I'd say they are usable. But the spacing and the big amount of space between the single controls annoys me a bit... Surely the term "touch first" fits the new UI perfectly. Whereas Windows up to 7 was "touch second"...

[CSharp.]

MFH, on 24 August 2012 - 20:32, said:

They work - currently using RTM on VMware - but the long "mouse ways" sure are atypical for desktop applications

They're also generally missing drag&drop operations, hide menus and buttons, offer little contextual menu support and force multi-step operations for otherwise simple tasks.

[@Leo]

Shane Nokes, on 24 August 2012 - 20:35, said:

So now you're comparing a full OS on an actual machine to a simulator? Wow...

Wow yourself. My point stands; just because something works, does not mean it is designed for it.

[MFH]

CJEric, on 24 August 2012 - 20:36, said:

They're also generally missing drag&drop operations, hide menus and buttons, offer little contextual menu support and force multi-step operations for otherwise simple tasks.

Totally agree. Furthermore they are completely isolated from the desktop: for example you can't drag a file from the desktop into a Metro application, which I call major BS!

[Julius Caro]

Calum, on 13 August 2012 - 13:09, said:

As I mention, all of that indicates that the person hasn't bothered to try to understand Windows 8, the reasons for the changes, and how it works I'm not suggesting anyone has to think this new Windows experience is better or that they should agree that the changes are good for the desktop formfactor, but I feel that everyone should try to understand Microsoft's viewpoint and what they intended, rather than resorting to false labels ("tablet apps") and misunderstanding (expecting apps in Windows 8 to work like they did in previous versions of Windows).

Are you suggesting that people should get a lecture on Microsoft viewpoint and philosophy before using the OS and asking questions about it? That's not how it should work. Not even Microsoft have come up with a standarised way of reffering to non-desktop apps. First it was Metro, now it's not. Then again, Office 2013 is very "metro", yet it's still a desktop app.

From a corporate view point, Microsoft should become aware that when people are misusing the terms, it's not because people have FAILED to try to understand Microsoft's viewpoint. It's because Microsoft has failed to either understand how the user/consumer thinks, or has failed to get the PROPER message to the consumer.

I'm all for windows 8, but going against the people that use the OS is not a solution.

[MFH]

Julius Caro, on 24 August 2012 - 20:42, said:

Not even Microsoft have come up with a standarised way of reffering to non-desktop apps.

Well. that's kind of a tradition, just think about the term "system tray"...

[@Leo]

MFH, on 24 August 2012 - 20:45, said:

Well. that's kind of a tradition, just think about the term "system tray"...

What is ambiguous about it exactly? I know exactly what it is and where it is, and how to call it.

[Anthonyd]

Julius Caro, on 24 August 2012 - 20:42, said:

Are you suggesting that people should get a lecture on Microsoft viewpoint and philosophy before using the OS and asking questions about it? That's not how it should work. Not even Microsoft have come up with a standarised way of reffering to non-desktop apps. First it was Metro, now it's not. Then again, Office 2013 is very "metro", yet it's still a desktop app.

I think you should get a lecture about design language, because you are confusing the programming language with the design language.

[Julius Caro]

Anthonyd, on 24 August 2012 - 20:47, said:

I think you should get a lecture about design language, because you are confusing the programming language with the design language.

How am I even introducing programming languages into the equation?

[Dot Matrix]

Rickkins, on 24 August 2012 - 20:27, said:

Coming from you, your response is completely meaningless, as you have been one of metro's most ardent proponents, in the most extreme sense. Not once in any of your postings have you shown even the slightest understanding of the arguments against it.(metro)

I understand perfectly the arguments against it. But considering that the role of a PC has expanded beyond a huge box that sits on your desk, the are many many scenarios where the desktop UI isn't cutting it anymore, and a new way of doing things is needed. I installed an Home Theater PC this week for my room in my apartment. Considering that my TV is bigger than any PC monitor out there, the desktop UI is not meant for it. I have to raise the DPI to 200% just to see anything from my couch, and then I have to use a friggin mouse to click on the icons just to get to Media Center. I have since installed Windows 8, gotten rid of the desktop and desktop apps, and use nothing but the "so-called" tablet only apps that people hate so much. They're working 100,000,000,000,000x better thanthe desktop apps even did. The new Start screen adjusts itself to my screens's resolution, and for once, I can see the friggin icons I'm clicking on. Better yet, Metro IE has been the best browser for using with the HTPC.


I blew away all desktop apps and the desktop tile on my laptop, again, here I do not miss the desktop apps in the least bit. I have been just as productive at school using nothing but Modern apps as I was using the old desktop. Which brings in the Surface Pro and related tablets. If I can live in Modern on a laptop, I can certainly do the same on a convertible as well, again, negating the need for the desktop at all. How about PCs connected to kiosks? ATMs, etc. I'd imagine, Windows Embedded is going to be nothing but Modern fairly soon. Since embedded PC serve a single function, the desktop is wasted on them.


So tell me again why the desktop is almighty? Because the more you look at it, the more the desktop is looking outdated, old, and depreciated.

[MFH]

@Leo, on 24 August 2012 - 20:46, said:

What is ambiguous about it exactly? I know exactly what it is and where it is, and how to call it.

Because accoring to Microsoft the term "system tray" is meaningless. It's a made-up name by users that has no assossiation to the officlal term "notification area". (see: http://blogs.msdn.co...9/10/54831.aspx)

@Dot Matrix: are you really using Windows 8 as a HTPC (I ask as it lacks Media Center...)

[@Leo]

MFH, on 24 August 2012 - 20:59, said:

Because accoring to Microsoft the term "system tray" is meaningless. It's a made-up name by users that has no assossiation to the officlal term "notification area". (see: http://blogs.msdn.co...9/10/54831.aspx)

I see what you mean, but even "notification area" is a logical and known name.

[MFH]

@Leo, on 24 August 2012 - 21:02, said:

I see what you mean, but even "notification area" is a logical and known name.

True, but I bet that you more often hear the term "tray" than the term "notification area"...
Think about it, even people that know the official term will use the inoffical one if they talk to "normal" users...

Personally I still prefer the term "Metro UI" for the new UI as it's based on the Metro Design Language and every alternative we have heard 'till now was simply stupid (IMHO)...

[Shane Nokes]

MFH, on 24 August 2012 - 20:59, said:

Because accoring to Microsoft the term "system tray" is meaningless. It's a made-up name by users that has no assossiation to the officlal term "notification area". (see: http://blogs.msdn.co...9/10/54831.aspx)

@Dot Matrix: are you really using Windows 8 as a HTPC (I ask as it lacks Media Center...)

Actually only Raymond Chen said that.

Microsoft uses the term in their official documentation at times, as evidenced by this:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/176085