273 posts in this topic

Posted

If it's not broken then don't fix it, people like you and Ballmer want to force change onto people just for the sake of change, there is no "forward" thinking with the direction that Ballmer is forcing windows, he only wants to line his pockets and bloat his colossal ego and you fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Speaking of Ballmer, have you noticed we're hearing more from Bill G. than Ballmer lately? As internal divisions clearly fail to speak and work together, and the line of 8 products don't even work all that well "together" (No syncing [except WMP classic], no Surface RT syncing at all, no connecting middleware, Xbox Music apps sucks and doesn't work consistently [Cloud, synced playlist local file support not 100% reliable], and no clear vision or attack plan, I think people realize how important Gates really was.

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Posted

I doubt you used 3.1 long enough to develop some serious habits. Especially if you were only 3. I doubt your parents let you on there for hours and hours a day every day. Using Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP, Vista, 7 will make you develop A LOT of habits with the way things used to work vs now.

I used 3.1 enough to know how to poke around the OS. I was young, I was the same way with computers as kids are now with tablets. They know the ins and outs of its OS, and I knew the ins and outs of Windows OS. I was on the computer so much that my parents actually barred me from using it for more than an hour every few days.

I, too grew up with 95, 98, 2000, XP, and adapted with each release. Same with Windows 8. I've learned that the best way to adapt to new things is to not develop any habits at all. Sure, I went to Start>Shutdown just like everyone else, but just because that's moved to Settings>Power, I'm not going to throw a fit over it. Same with other people. Think they're mad they can't go to a Start Menu on their iOS or Android devices? How about going through a non descript Apple icon to shutdown OS X?

Are you arguing that mouse and keyboard, and the need for a mouse and keyboard-optimised UI, will be irrelevant in any forseeable future?

What part of the Start Screen (Strictly the Start Screen) isn't optimized for a mouse?

I think people realize how important Gates really was.

Gates has been out of the picture for a long time now.

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Posted

I think people realize how important Gates really was.

I keep hoping he'll come back and straighten out this mess but it's probably wishful thinking.

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Posted

I keep hoping he'll come back and straighten out this mess but it's probably wishful thinking.

Considering Bill Gates LIKES and USES Windows 8...

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Posted

What part of the Start Screen (Strictly the Start Screen) isn't optimized for a mouse?
You're not answering my question: are you arguing that the keyboard and mouse paradigm will be irrelevant in the foreseeable future?

I'll answer yours, however:

Low information density, single activity taking the entire screen, contextual switch away from the desktop. The Start Screen is completely alien to the desktop both in its visual presentation and functional attributes.

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Posted

I'm not the only one calling for Metro integration on the desktop. If you have better ideas as to what can be, I'd love to see them.

Yes I have a better idea, leave windows alone.

i'm pretty sure this has been posted in neowin forum before, but i'll post it again here:

a metro-like environtment in a window container

1419707-PPGSLZN.jpg

just replace each tiled picture above with metro apps.

you can made it full-screen just like current metro, or

you can made it windowed, so you might start another metro container that you finally able to run multiple (maximized) metro apps, and view them simultanously at once.

theres video too:

as you can see, it works like metro: tiled, 'full-screen', horisontaly scrolled

if the window container were set to maximized (or full screen), you'll have your old metro too.

Metro(s) on Desktop

Somebody should've made this "Metro(s) Container" for NT 6.1

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Posted

i'm pretty sure this has been posted in neowin forum before, but i'll post it again here:

a metro-like environtment in a window container

1419707-PPGSLZN.jpg

just replace each tiled picture above with metro apps.

you can made it full-screen just like current metro, or

you can made it windowed, so you might start another metro container that you finally able to run multiple (maximized) metro apps, and view them simultanously at once.

theres video too:

as you can see, it works like metro: tiled, 'full-screen', horisontaly scrolled

if the window container were set to maximized (or full screen), you'll have your old metro too.

Metro(s) on Desktop

Somebody should've made this "Metro(s) Container" for NT 6.1

That breaks the whole idea behind Metro and Surface concepts. The desktop UI just isn't suited for use on other devices. Try as you might, the desktop as we know it today, just doesn't have any longevity left in it.

avatar.jpg

Remember this scene from "Avatar"? The character "grabs" his 'desktop' computer screen and "throws" it onto his tablet? That's where we're headed. Metro enables interoperability, it allows tablets to play with their PC brothers. Not replace them. While this concept might seem whimsical, it's not uncommon for concepts like this to drive real development. I'd love a future like this. Ya'll can cling to the desktop all you want, but this would be geek heaven for me. We're never going to get here by getting lazy, and declaring "Well, good enough. Who wants to grab a beer?"

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Posted

Considering Bill Gates LIKES and USES Windows 8...

Of course, as long as that idiot Ballmer is running the show Gates has to at least act like he supports him.

Sort of how I have to act when I go to work and show people how to use that absurd 'metro' garbage just to get them to buy a new pc with windows 8 on it.

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Posted

If that's the case we should have just stopped developing technology back in the 80's. Because I guess you could say the CLI is "good enough", right? It's not broken, so why change?

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Posted

That breaks the whole idea behind Metro and Surface concepts. The desktop UI just isn't suited for use on other devices. Try as you might, the desktop as we know it today, just doesn't have any longevity left in it.

avatar.jpg

Remember this scene from "Avatar"? The character "grabs" his 'desktop' computer screen and "throws" it onto his tablet?

That's where we're headed. Metro enables interoperability, it allows tablets to play with their PC brothers.

Not replace them. While this concept might seem whimsical, it's not uncommon for concepts like this to drive real development. I'd love a future like this. Ya'll can cling to the desktop all you want, but this would be geek heaven for me. We're never going to get here by getting lazy, and declaring "Well, good enough. Who wants to grab a beer?"

if you're asking about drag & drop, i can not see why metro any superior than windowed desktop.

drag & drop between different windows in desktop are common practice,

but does it comfortable with current tiled or full-screened metro apps? No.

however if you can contain metro apps into windowed container, just like i proposed above,

it should ease using grab & throw from one metro apps to another metro apps in different window container.

Metro enables interoperability

not really, windowed desktop who does it.

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Posted

That breaks the whole idea behind Metro and Surface concepts. The desktop UI just isn't suited for use on other devices. Try as you might, the desktop as we know it today, just doesn't have any longevity left in it.

[-img]http://blogs-images.forbes.com/erikkain/files/2012/03/avatar.jpg[-/img]

Remember this scene from "Avatar"? The character "grabs" his 'desktop' computer screen and "throws" it onto his tablet? That's where we're headed. Metro enables interoperability, it allows tablets to play with their PC brothers. Not replace them. While this concept might seem whimsical, it's not uncommon for concepts like this to drive real development. I'd love a future like this. Ya'll can cling to the desktop all you want, but this would be geek heaven for me. We're never going to get here by getting lazy, and declaring "Well, good enough. Who wants to grab a beer?"

Even your utopian future requires a windowing desktop manager rofl.

2rhuvmg.jpg

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Posted

If that's the case we should have just stopped developing technology back in the 80's. Because I guess you could say the CLI is "good enough", right? It's not broken, so why change?

I am sure you have read this blog post several times, but can never get enough of it: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/18/creating-the-windows-8-user-experience.aspx. People have opposed, often vehemently, significant changes along every turn, particularly power users. Judging by history, they must heading in the right direction. Really, it was Windows 7 with its near-universal acclaim where they were stagnating.

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Posted

Why will Metro fail?

I don't know if it will fail, but it's not the best thing since sliced bread that's for sure.

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Posted

That breaks the whole idea behind Metro and Surface concepts. The desktop UI just isn't suited for use on other devices. Try as you might, the desktop as we know it today, just doesn't have any longevity left in it.

Remember this scene from "Avatar"? The character "grabs" his 'desktop' computer screen and "throws" it onto his tablet? That's where we're headed. Metro enables interoperability, it allows tablets to play with their PC brothers. Not replace them. While this concept might seem whimsical, it's not uncommon for concepts like this to drive real development. I'd love a future like this. Ya'll can cling to the desktop all you want, but this would be geek heaven for me. We're never going to get here by getting lazy, and declaring "Well, good enough. Who wants to grab a beer?"

And why can't you take a traditional desktop "window" and do the same thing with it? What makes this a metro only thing? I can drag a window to a second monitor, so I do not see an issue with the traditional desktop UI here.....

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Posted

Somebody should've made this "Metro(s) Container" for NT 6.1

Has been done by Retro UI (http://www.retroui.com/) with their "Enforce"-feature

avatar.jpg

Dot please: stop thinking that Hollywood has anything realistic to show you! It's a movie, nothing more! (About to burst your buble. neither Star Trek, nor Avatar, nor other "science fiction" movies are depictions of our future.)

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Posted

If that's the case we should have just stopped developing technology back in the 80's. Because I guess you could say the CLI is "good enough", right? It's not broken, so why change?

I'm all for adopting new technology and I will upgrade my stuff even if it takes a lot of effort so long as there are benefits at the end of it.

What I am failing to see at present is what the benefits of metro are for productivity. It is a lot slower to switch between apps and, in windows rt, the desktop mode is half-assed.

I still find it a lot faster to switch between apps and type using a mouse, keyboard and desktop OS.

At work I would only get half the work done if I had to use metro. Until metro is as efficient as the desktop for getting real work done, desktops won't be going anywhere.

The surface pro is an exception as it runs the full desktop version of Windows 8 and isn't limited in what apps it can run.

I still think I could be more productive on the larger screen at work though.

I have to ask; when so many people are office based, why do you think desktops should be replaced anyway?

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I'm all for adopting new technology and I will upgrade my stuff even if it takes a lot of effort so long as there are benefits at the end of it.

What I am failing to see at present is what the benefits of metro are for productivity. It is a lot slower to switch between apps and, in windows rt, the desktop mode is half-assed.

I still find it a lot faster to switch between apps and type using a mouse, keyboard and desktop OS.

At work I would only get half the work done if I had to use metro. Until metro is as efficient as the desktop for getting real work done, desktops won't be going anywhere.

The surface pro is an exception as it runs the full desktop version of Windows 8 and isn't limited in what apps it can run.

I still think I could be more productive on the larger screen at work though.

I have to ask; when so many people are office based, why do you think desktops should be replaced anyway?

Again, I'm confused why you think Metro means the end of the desktop. I said no such thing.

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Posted

Ford Model T wasn't broken either, but, well, you know. This is nothing but Microsoft adapting to trends, and allowing Windows room to grow in the next few decades.

Bad analogy, cars are still fundamentally the same, they all for the most part have four wheels, windows, a chassis, dashboard with steering wheel control interface. If we went by your analogy modern cars would be controlled by your nipples or something.

Again, I'm confused why you think Metro means the end of the desktop. I said no such thing.

Um a few posts ago you said that you'd want to see the desktop gone with Metro in its place.

At this point, I'm favoring Microsoft eliminating the desktop all together these next few years. I think you'll see Metro evolve to take over for it.

And, if Microsoft isn't interested in killing the desktop completely, just transforming it, I would still love to see more Metro integration

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Posted

Bad analogy, cars are still fundamentally the same, they all for the most part have four wheels, windows, a chassis, dashboard with steering wheel control interface. If we went by your analogy modern cars would be controlled by your nipples or something.

Um a few posts ago you said that you'd want to see the desktop gone with Metro in its place.

I especially liked the nipple part.
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Posted

Again, I'm confused why you think Metro means the end of the desktop. I said no such thing.

Pretty sure I have read posts from you that state the desktop is now considered legacy and should be replaced by metro in it's entirety. If not you than many other have. That kind of move alienates desktop users completely. I know as a desktop user if I had 8 I would have startisback installed and not ever launch the metro ui/metro apps.

Which based on posts isn't what MS wants and is what MS will try to get rid of in upcoming updates.

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Bad analogy, cars are still fundamentally the same, they all for the most part have four wheels, windows, a chassis, dashboard with steering wheel control interface. If we went by your analogy modern cars would be controlled by your nipples or something.

Computers are still fundamentally the same. They still have processors, memory, storage, with GUI 'steering wheel' control interface. Compared to the Model T, cars have, but haven't changed. They way we interact with them has. Same with technology. The way we're interacting with them is changing. My analogy is dead on.

Pretty sure I have read posts from you that state the desktop is now considered legacy and should be replaced by metro in it's entirety. If not you than many other have. That kind of move alienates desktop users completely. I know as a desktop user if I had 8 I would have startisback installed and not ever launch the metro ui/metro apps.

Which based on posts isn't what MS wants and is what MS will try to get rid of in upcoming updates.

My mistake, I thought he meant the desktop PC as a whole.

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Posted

Computers are still fundamentally the same. They still have processors, memory, storage, with GUI 'steering wheel' control interface. Compared to the Model T, cars have, but haven't changed. They way we interact with them has. Same with technology. The way we're interacting with them is changing. My analogy is dead on.

Your analogy is wrong, the steering wheel (input) has been the same since the first cars, sure the dashboard has changed and the way you interface with the gears but the primary input is still the same.

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Posted

What part of the Start Screen (Strictly the Start Screen) isn't optimized for a mouse?

The mouse wheel scroll, which goes up and down, moves the start screen from side to side.

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Computers are still fundamentally the same. They still have processors, memory, storage, with GUI 'steering wheel' control interface. Compared to the Model T, cars have, but haven't changed. They way we interact with them has. Same with technology. The way we're interacting with them is changing. My analogy is dead on.

Your analogy is heavily flawed, they didn't decide to move the steering wheel behind the dashboard in any car or turn the whole dashboard into a steering wheel.

The steering wheel is in the same location, gas pedal, brake pedal, clutch etc.

Just think if Ballmer invented the model T, we would be in serious trouble...

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Posted

The mouse wheel scroll, which goes up and down, moves the start screen from side to side.

So then the mouse is working perfectly then?

Your analogy is wrong, the steering wheel (input) has been the same since the first cars, sure the dashboard has changed and the way you interface with the gears but the primary input is still the same.

Ok, forget the car. Your not seeing my analogy. Technology is evolving, and it's changing the way we're interacting with it. This evolution is driving new UIs and UXs.

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