Jazirian Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I never said apps are getting refused en mass, but they will if the developers don't do exactly what Microsoft tells them to. What they can and cannot do is being arbitrarily controlled.Your persistence in this argument suggests that you believe that Valve are somehow fairer, or have less restrictions. Valve have their own rules, they are arbitrary too. Valve introduced the fee for Greenlight to cut down on spam and malicious entries, it was initially free, and all proceeds will be donated to charity. How much of Microsoft's fees get donated to charity? What do charitable donations have to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I agree they are exaggerating the doom-and-gloom-bells for Windows 8. But I have to support the work they are doing because I do think that Linux has the potential of being a great gaming platform. It just needs developers to get behind it and OpenGL. No doubt, though, Microsoft has an edge with DirectX. But that edge has been slipping lately. There are a lot of games coming out to this day that only support up to DX9 feature sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Valve introduced the fee for Greenlight to cut down on spam and malicious entries, it was initially free, and all proceeds will be donated to charity. How much of Microsoft's fees get donated to charity? Source OK, I'll admit that's nice of them; but it doesn't alter the fact that they still take a 30-40% cut of every single sale they make, which is pretty much equivalent to all the other app stores out there. Singling out MS here is hardly fair, is it? At the end of the day, each stores success is dependant on the developers and the consumers. Valve are p'ed off with Microsoft because they know full well that MS have enough muscle to affect their revenue, and the MS store interface, even metro'd up, is a thousand times better than the godawful eyesore that Steam STILL is. TBH, -both- stores annoy the hell out of me as neither of them let you choose where to install your downloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Norris Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 How much of Microsoft's fees get donated to charity? You probably should look up just how charitable Microsoft really is, and that's got nothing to do with Gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Users choose what goes and blows with Greenlight. Correction: Users choose what "goes and blows" with the games that actually MAKE it on to Greenlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0rk_b0mb Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Your persistence in this argument suggests that you believe that Valve are somehow fairer, or have less restrictions. Valve have their own rules, they are arbitrary too. We have 500 dollars worth of games. Of coarse we're Valve fanboys What does this have to do with anything? The fee was introduced to cut down on bullshiz entries and they donate that money to charity---meaning they don't pocket it. No doubt, though, Microsoft has an edge with DirectX. You get better FPS in Left for Dead 2 for linux http://www.phoronix....&px=MTE1Njc Correction: Users choose what "goes and blows" with the games that actually MAKE it on to Greenlight. That's what I was trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathiasdm Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 You get better FPS in Left for Dead 2 http://www.phoronix....&px=MTE1Njc I believe his point was that more games are developed using DirectX (which is true). His other point is also true: it would be good to see more OpenGL development, as it would result in more crossplatform games (good for everyone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athernar Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 OK, I'll admit that's nice of them; but it doesn't alter the fact that they still take a 30-40% cut of every single sale they make, which is pretty much equivalent to all the other app stores out there. Singling out MS here is hardly fair, is it? At the end of the day, each stores success is dependant on the developers and the consumers. Valve are p'ed off with Microsoft because they know full well that MS have enough muscle to affect their revenue, and the MS store interface, even metro'd up, is a thousand times better than the godawful eyesore that Steam STILL is. TBH, -both- stores annoy the hell out of me as neither of them let you choose where to install your downloads. The cut is negotiated per-product and is covered by NDA iirc, so arguing based on a hearsay is silly. Also in terms of install location, you'll want to check this out until such time as they slap a UI on it. Lastly, I'd argue that when it comes to PC games and PC gamers, you're overestimating the Windows Store. Gamers hold grudges, and they really, really don't like Microsoft's past "investments" in the market. (GfwL) f0rk_b0mb 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0rk_b0mb Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 The cut is negotiated per-product and is covered by NDA iirc, so arguing based on a hearsay is silly. Also in terms of install location, you'll want to check this out until such time as they slap a UI on it. Lastly, I'd argue that when it comes to PC games and PC gamers, you're overestimating the Windows Store. Gamers hold grudges, and they really, really don't like Microsoft's past "investments" in the market. (GfwL) (Y) GFWL sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted October 29, 2012 Veteran Share Posted October 29, 2012 The day they openly cripple games for Windows (not just Windows 8) is when their views will begin to matter. But Valve isn't that stupid to write off the lion's share of their userbase. I'd support what they're doing in terms of making games platform-agnostic. Sure, Windows 8 is more or less great for me, and it still plays my games well. But opening up to platforms that aren't Windows is, to me, a net gain in the gaming population. Until then, whining about their views just because it targets Windows 8 is laughable. If you don't have games on Steam, why should you care about Valve's views? If you do, as I said above - unless they actively cripple their Windows users, your games will still play the way they are. +Majesticmerc 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Windows is not what it used to be.... is becoming slowly and apple-esque platform, but if they indeed could push gaming into ubuntu... I'm soooooo much switching from windows 8 to ubuntu as my entertainment os, working os can be windows 7. So gaming is not part of your entertainment OS then? Valve can spread this BS all they want, it still doesn't make it true. And even if they make steam run on Linux. All the other non valve publishers isn't going to spend the millions to make their games run on Linux, much less support them. And I bet when valve eventually gets around to it and see how little they get back and how much it costs them and do the math and see the result is far in the negative, they won't be doing much Linux dev either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athernar Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 So gaming is not part of your entertainment OS then? Valve can spread this BS all they want, it still doesn't make it true. And even if they make steam run on Linux. All the other non valve publishers isn't going to spend the millions to make their games run on Linux, much less support them. And I bet when valve eventually gets around to it and see how little they get back and how much it costs them and do the math and see the result is far in the negative, they won't be doing much Linux dev either. You mean the OP spreading "this BS" right? Since that's his edit, not what the article actually said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceelf Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I have a hard time caring what Valve says when they can't be arsed to release games using current standards. Even Dota 2 looks to be DX10 max. DX10? Seriously? Does anyone even *want* DX10 support? I'd rather buy from anyone but Valve at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Valve is referring to "Metro" apps. It's a closed platform. The desktop you can install whatever the you want. I searched for steam on my android device, and all I found was a steam community app that let's me chat and see what's on th store, not download stuff... So steam on this open platform can only do the same things they are allowed to do if they did a steam metro app... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 What do charitable donations have to do with anything? Given that someone brought up the Greenlight fee to try and say that Valve are just as greedy as Microsoft, i'd say plenty ;) I searched for steam on my android device, and all I found was a steam community app that let's me chat and see what's on th store, not download stuff... So steam on this open platform can only do the same things they are allowed to do if they did a steam metro app... Yes, I'm sure Portal 2, L4D2, HL2, and so on would work brilliantly on a smartphone ;) If Valve wanted to set Steam up to download things they could (Amazon appstore anyone), they just choose not to. f0rk_b0mb and Athernar 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaP Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 They're wasting their money with Steam on Linux.. Even if Steam gives Windows 8 the finger, that doesn't stop steam partners from publishing direct and gaining access to the Windows 8 Marketshare. BTW, Why isn't Valve ripping on OSX/Apple with the same hostility? Valve doesn't support the iPad and iOS as far as i know. It's not clear if he is refering to Windows 8 Pro or Windows 8 RT. And that's one of the problem with Windows 8. RT and Pro are not the same thing. And it's not really clear where MS is heading to. Will MS keep the desktop around for many years or does MS plan to kill the desktop and go full metro and apps store for the oem version installed on new PC once all the apps will be converted to it. I could be wrong but to me it looks like MS ultimately wants to kill the desktop and go metro/apps store prime time with the consumer oem version of Windows 9 or 10 (outside of system builder license and volume license). Again might be wrong but if it is the case then i can understand valve concern about the future of Windows. I think Apple makes things clearer with iOS and Mac OS. I don't own a mac but i think you can run iOS apps on a Mac os computer. But Mac OS is clearly not iOS and never will. Not so sure about Windows Pro and Windows RT. Looks like MS wants to merge both the tablet and the desktop experience together. Ultimately it could be a bad thing for Valve business. Hope i'm wrong but I think Valve concerne about it actually makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blade1269 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 What he means is that valve is not the only game in town , so they can't own the block anymore.. Lord Method Man 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Valve introduced the fee for Greenlight to cut down on spam and malicious entries, it was initially free, and all proceeds will be donated to charity. How much of Microsoft's fees get donated to charity? Source I think if you looked at the total numbers MS gave to charities through direct donations and special programs they run, you'll find that you don't want to compare MS and valve in how much they donate to charities, since one of them will be insignificant, and it's not MS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Given that someone brought up the Greenlight fee to try and say that Valve are just as greedy as Microsoft, i'd say plenty ;) Yes, I'm sure Portal 2, L4D2, HL2, and so on would work brilliantly on a smartphone ;) If Valve wanted to set Steam up to download things they could (Amazon appstore anyone), they just choose not to. Some of them could work just fine on a tablet, especially since tablets and smartphones for that matter, can be hooked up to a tv and support bt controllers. Also, windows already has a working steam client with these, so our argument is that they don't have an android steam client because steam games can't run on phones and tablets(let's ignore all the simple "arcade" games and such which also exist on these platforms, for your convenience). Yet at the same time your argument is that valve should be ****ed because they're not allowed to have an App Store for WinRT tablets.... It boggles my mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKay Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Funny, all the Steam games I played on Windows 7 still play on my Windows 8 system. Sadelwo, Duffydemon, Lord Method Man and 2 others 5 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon H Supervisor Posted October 29, 2012 Supervisor Share Posted October 29, 2012 You mean the OP spreading "this BS" right? Since that's his edit, not what the article actually said. no, it wasn't the OPs edit, the source actually updated the article shortly after he posted it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I think if you looked at the total numbers MS gave to charities through direct donations and special programs they run, you'll find that you don't want to compare MS and valve in how much they donate to charities, since one of them will be insignificant, and it's not MS. In % of turnover terms I'd wager there wouldn't be a massive difference Some of them could work just fine on a abler, especially since Talbots and smartphones for that matter, can be hooked up to a tv and support bt controllers. Not without significant design cutbacks, tablets don't possess the hardware grunt to run them with the full subset of functionality and graphics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Not without significant design cutbacks, tablets don't possess the hardware grunt to run them with the full subset of functionality and graphics. Already covered that in my edit, and that's just BS. Tablets today can run the ancient source games just fine, even on high settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Eternal Tempest MVC Posted October 29, 2012 MVC Share Posted October 29, 2012 Apple, Google, and Microsoft (the newest), are creating their wall gardens, Microsoft just late to the game. Windows 8 sends a clear signal MS is started going in this direction of a closed system. This is why people are being really vocal about it now. Arceles 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Not without significant design cutbacks, tablets don't possess the hardware grunt to run them with the full subset of functionality and graphics. I suggest you take a look at the Tegra 3 chipset sometime. It's easily on par with consoles and mid-range PC GPU's, and there are plenty of quality FPS's on the platform already. If Gabe's going to port Valve's games over to Linux, I would expect him to make sure they run on Android and iOS/OSX too, as they're all unix based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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