Valve: Linux More Viable Than Windows 8 for Gaming


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Corvini
Windows is not what it used to be.... is becoming slowly and apple-esque platform

I agree with that. Windows is definately moving towards a more locked down OS. That's bad news for users and developers alike. Thankfully, there are open alternatives like GNU/Linux.

, but if they indeed could push gaming into ubuntu.. I'm soooooo much switching from windows 8 to ubuntu as my entertainment os, working os can be windows 7.

I'm the opposite. I do all my serious work in Linux, and occasionally game in Windows 7. With Steam coming to Linux though, I'm planning to delete my Windows partition entirely. If game companies don't port their titles to Linux, then they'll lose my support, it's as simple as that. Got to vote with your wallets folks.

Valve and Steam really have the possibility to propel GNU/Linux into the mainstream. The argument that Windows is more familiar or easy to use has just disappeared with the appearance of WIndows 8. Ubuntu has the desktop paradigm we're all familiar with and will soon have the gaming muscle as well thanks to Valve.

The competition in the desktop OS market is finally heating up. Now's the time for oems to get onboard with it.

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coresx

The thing I don't get is why Microsoft should just roll over and die.

Pretty obvious the simple, sleak app model is what users want so Microsoft has to adapt, very late to the game.

Doesn't mean they should forget their roots as that would be be monumentally stupid and if anyone thinks Microsoft will close up Windows, then I fear for their safety outside in the real world.

Microsofts best model going forward is the app store model along with their standard open Windows enviroment.

As for Valve and Steam, their consumers aren't people who only buy 99p mobile games from an app store. What have they to fear, losing customers they never would get in the first place. Best of luck to them going forward with Linux, Mac and Windows, just stop acting like the world is ending and Microsoft is somehow in the wrong.

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Lord Method Man

Wow so many Windows 8 fanboys posting their one sided views here. Luckily for Valve and everyone else in the world, you guys don't have a say in what Valve does with their own products, and they're certainly entitled to their own opinion when it comes to their platform. If they want to bring it to Linux, then they can certainly bring it to Linux, it's not like they're going to drop Windows support, not when so many Non-Valve games support only Windows.

Do you even know what the discussion is about here?

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ahhell

Wow so many Windows 8 fanboys posting their one sided views here. Luckily for Valve and everyone else in the world, you guys don't have a say in what Valve does with their own products, and they're certainly entitled to their own opinion when it comes to their platform. If they want to bring it to Linux, then they can certainly bring it to Linux, it's not like they're going to drop Windows support, not when so many Non-Valve games support only Windows.

:rolleyes:

Someone's view point will always be one sided. :rofl:

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HawkMan

I'm still waiting for you to answer the question about the engine.

I was thinking more along the lines of Dota 2 and Portal 2, but sure. (You must not of actually played Portal 2 if you think it's all "white clean scifi".) Anyway, as I said, it's on a personal level - aka my opinion. I want to know your technical basis for saying why the "core engine" of Source needs to be replaced.

7

How would I know what they need to replace, I don't have access to the source of the core source engine. neither do I have an interest in it.

It is however an undeniable fact that, Source as of today CAN NOT replicate the graphics of competing major engines like CE, UE and Frostbite. I did notice you didn't argue this fact but instead went off on some unrelated tangent about how games shouldn't look realistic and support next gen graphics, because it's better that they are stylized.

Something I don't necessarily disagree with, however that is highly dependant on game type and style. You can't do a serious BF game in stylized art, well you can, but it's not just right. other games like WoW looks... decent in their stylized art, and have the advantage of aging gracefully, whereas, a far newer game with "superior" graphics like AoC doesn't age nearly as gracefully. On the other hand, AoC wouldn't work in a stylized art style. not for anyone who cares about the lore anyway.

There is a reason why Valve is working on Source2, because Source has come as far as it can go, and even when they can add new fancy features to it, it comes at a cost, time, complexity and performance. where newer engines written for these things at a more core level are able to offer these new features with increased fidelity at a lower performance hit. Heck afaik source doesn't even support DX11, that alone limits several next gen features it can't support or have to support on itself by workarounds at a greater performance hit.

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Corvini

if anyone thinks Microsoft will close up Windows, then I fear for their safety outside in the real world.

They're already doing it with Windows RT. Only metro apps downloaded through the Microsoft marketplace can be installed on it. Therefore it's not a stretch of the imagination to think that Microsoft will eventually do the same to x86 versions.

Microsofts best model going forward is the app store model along with their standard open Windows enviroment.

The "Open Windows environment" you speak of is the desktop, which has now been declared obsolete by Microsoft. They want all apps to go through their marketplace, and in doing so earn themselves a nice slice of each purchase. If you can't see that then you're not playing attention.

As for Valve and Steam, their consumers aren't people who only buy 99p mobile games from an app store. What have they to fear, losing customers they never would get in the first place. Best of luck to them going forward with Linux, Mac and Windows, just stop acting like the world is ending and Microsoft is somehow in the wrong.

Microsoft is trying to take over and control how software is distributed in Windows. That's enough to frighten any developer or publisher let alone companies like Valve and Blizzard.

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HawkMan

Wow so many Windows 8 fanboys posting their one sided views here. Luckily for Valve and everyone else in the world, you guys don't have a say in what Valve does with their own products, and they're certainly entitled to their own opinion when it comes to their platform. If they want to bring it to Linux, then they can certainly bring it to Linux, it's not like they're going to drop Windows support, not when so many Non-Valve games support only Windows.

oh wait, you're a fanboy if you're one of the millions buying windows 8 and don't think it's horrible now ? I think you get the term backwards. And the issue is that Valve/Gabe is spreading lies and misinformation, also known as FUD. He can do whatever he wants, if he wants to spend millions and millions to develop for a few hundred thousand gamers, sure go ahead, but don't complain when the budget is showing all red in his face.

I agree with that. Windows is definately moving towards a more locked down OS. That's bad news for users and developers alike. Thankfully, there are open alternatives like GNU/Linux.

I'm the opposite. I do all my serious work in Linux, and occasionally game in Windows 7. With Steam coming to Linux though, I'm planning to delete my Windows partition entirely. If game companies don't port their titles to Linux, then they'll lose my support, it's as simple as that. Got to vote with your wallets folks.

Valve and Steam really have the possibility to propel GNU/Linux into the mainstream. The argument that Windows is more familiar or easy to use has just disappeared with the appearance of WIndows 8. Ubuntu has the desktop paradigm we're all familiar with and will soon have the gaming muscle as well thanks to Valve.

The competition in the desktop OS market is finally heating up. Now's the time for oems to get onboard with it.

No valve doesn't have this power. Just because Valve adds linux support to steam doesn't make all the games work on linux, it also won't make Ubisoft, EA, Activision, Blizzard et all, magically start developing for a tiny platform where a sub percentage of gamers reside.

Microsoft is trying to take over and control how software is distributed in Windows. That's enough to frighten any developer or publisher let alone companies like Valve and Blizzard.

That's the kind of FUD Gabe is trying to spread. they are not. Windows 8 is sill as open as it always was. don't spread FUD.

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nekrosoft13

So then Windows is still an open platform, no? That includes the option to install Valve?

the way microsoft is heading right now, once they get their way desktop will eventually go away. they want to turn windows into closed platform, and with the support of all the xbox idiots out there, they might make a dent.

go valve!

They're already doing it with Windows RT. Only metro apps downloaded through the Microsoft marketplace can be installed on it. Therefore it's not a stretch of the imagination to think that Microsoft will eventually do the same to x86 versions.

The "Open Windows environment" you speak of is the desktop, which has now been declared obsolete by Microsoft. They want all apps to go through their marketplace, and in doing so earn themselves a nice slice of each purchase. If you can't see that then you're not playing attention.

Microsoft is trying to take over and control how software is distributed in Windows. That's enough to frighten any developer or publisher let alone companies like Valve and Blizzard.

QFT

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Yogurtmaster

I want to see the sales figures in 2014 with Steam on Ubuntu compared to Windows in the same time frame.

I actually run Kbuntu (I don't care for Unity), but it's mainly for FreePBX use and I wouldn't play games on it.

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FloatingFatMan

the way microsoft is heading right now, once they get their way desktop will eventually go away. they want to turn windows into closed platform, and with the support of all the xbox idiots out there, they might make a dent.

go valve!

The desktop is NEVER going away, and anyone that thinks it is, is clearly stupid.

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Athernar

How would I know what they need to replace, I don't have access to the source of the core source engine. neither do I have an interest in it.

Oh okay, so you're basically just talking out of your ass. Thought so.

It is however an undeniable fact that, Source as of today CAN NOT replicate the graphics of competing major engines like CE, UE and Frostbite. I did notice you didn't argue this fact but instead went off on some unrelated tangent about how games shouldn't look realistic and support next gen graphics, because it's better that they are stylized.

"The graphics" What a vague statement. And if you think I went off on a tangent about "how all games should be stylized", then frankly you're deluded and hallucinating. I said nothing of the sort.

There is a reason why Valve is working on Source2, because Source has come as far as it can go, and even when they can add new fancy features to it, it comes at a cost, time, complexity and performance. where newer engines written for these things at a more core level are able to offer these new features with increased fidelity at a lower performance hit. Heck afaik source doesn't even support DX11, that alone limits several next gen features it can't support or have to support on itself by workarounds at a greater performance hit.

You don't even have a clue "what is wrong" with Source as is, let alone the fact we don't even know what "Source 2" constitutes. You're just throwing around buzzwords and terminology to give the illusion you know what you're talking about.

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Max Norris
The desktop is NEVER going away, and anyone that thinks it is, is clearly stupid.

Indeed.. Microsoft might be a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. If they were actually that retarded to come out with a version of Windows that would require me to hope for a port of Wine just so I can run Windows software.. well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the problem with that sentence. Throwing away nearly two decades of software, cheesing off and losing hundreds of millions of customers.. no matter what sort of drugs you're on that couldn't possibly sound like a good idea to anyone, let alone people who run a multi-billion dollar corporation or its stockholders. If there's going to be FUD being thrown around, it should at least have a hint of plausibility behind it.

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nekrosoft13

The desktop is NEVER going away, and anyone that thinks it is, is clearly stupid.

it might not, because there are people out there that will not adapt to metro apps. but if MS would get their way they would remove it.

they are already calling desktop apps "old", but you can't replace something that works with something like metro apps.

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Dashel

Yet the only reason cited that we 'needed' this malarky to begin with is that MS is dead on its feet if it doesn't follow Apple into the mobile space and change with the times.

So which is it, are they dead if they don't become a mobility focused one size fits all platform 'with apps' or are they dead if they kill off the desktop?

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FloatingFatMan

it might not, because there are people out there that will not adapt to metro apps. but if MS would get their way they would remove it.

they are already calling desktop apps "old", but you can't replace something that works with something like metro apps.

Nope, it's just not going to happen. Waaaay too many legacy apps that would kill, not to mention their primary source of income, enterprise customers.

MS killing the desktop would be like Apple discontinuing their entire range of phones, tablets, computers and media players, and going into the fruit stand business.

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HawkMan

Oh okay, so you're basically just talking out of your ass. Thought so.

Nope, you can talk about stuff and know abotu them without knowing the actual technical details about the source tehcnicalities.

"The graphics" What a vague statement. And if you think I went off on a tangent about "how all games should be stylized", then frankly you're deluded and hallucinating. I said nothing of the sort.

you didn't... hmmm let's analyze

On a more personal note, while CryENGINE and UE are certainly technically more advanced than Source, I find Valve's recent Source titles to look far superior due to a focus on artstyle over raw graphics. CE/UE titles seem to be little more than low resolution textures with flagrant abuse of shaders to sweep said textures under.

Yup, yes you did.

You don't even have a clue "what is wrong" with Source as is, let alone the fact we don't even know what "Source 2" constitutes. You're just throwing around buzzwords and terminology to give the illusion you know what you're talking about.

And you \still haven't responded to any of my arguments, you've just been going off on tangents and grabbing at strawmen. and no I'm not throwing around buzzwords or terminology and yes I do know what I'm talking about. what that has to do with you however I don't know, I'm no source developer and have no interest in being one.

But yeah, I'll be waiting for you to actually reply to my last post since you pretty much ignored all of it, except the parts where you could skip of on some tangent again.

it might not, because there are people out there that will not adapt to metro apps. but if MS would get their way they would remove it.

they are already calling desktop apps "old", but you can't replace something that works with something like metro apps.

You can replace something that works with a better metro app.

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ahhell

it might not, because there are people out there that will not adapt to metro apps. but if MS would get their way they would remove it.

they are already calling desktop apps "old", but you can't replace something that works with something like metro apps.

Quit talking out of your ass.

Once again, you clearly have no ****ing clue what you are talking about.

MS has no plans to remove the desktop from Windows. Businesses, which is a massive chunk of MS' income, would never go for it. It would be financial suicide.

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theyarecomingforyou

If Linux offers a better gaming experience then it will be worth taking seriously, although it is a long way from that at the moment. Still, I hope Valve succeeds in providing proper competition to Windows.

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nekrosoft13

Quit talking out of your ass.

Once again, you clearly have no ****ing clue what you are talking about.

MS has no plans to remove the desktop from Windows. Businesses, which is a massive chunk of MS' income, would never go for it. It would be financial suicide.

stop acting like a immature snob. MS is loosing their touch, Windows 8 has no place in business enviroment anyway.

company I work for already decided that windows 8 won't touch a single PC here. about 10 locations worldwide with more 30,000 employees.

I still hope that windows 8 is only a fluke and ms will fix it up by 9

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nekrosoft13

You can replace something that works with a better metro app.

thats not the case right now. pretty much all metro apps are limited in functionallity, limited oversized gui. and some simply fail to launch and when they fail to launch there is no explanation why.

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ahhell

stop acting like a immature snob. MS is loosing their touch, Windows 8 has no place in business enviroment anyway.

company I work for already decided that windows 8 won't touch a single PC here. about 10 locations worldwide with more 30,000 employees.

I still hope that windows 8 is only a fluke and ms will fix it up by 9

Yeah whatever.

Did your work give you a reason for not deploying Windows 8? Because they just deployed Windows 7, right? That has ZERO to do with the quality of the OS and more to do with the way that "your" business is ran.

Anything else you said is just your uninformed opinion.

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Joshie

It is thoroughly impossible for Linux to outshine Windows 8 for years and years to come. It can't just be good at games--it has to be good at everything. And you know what will happen? Anyone who tries Linux will try to open any number of Office documents, take one look at the screwed up formatting, and say forget this.

Linux proponents will blame file formats, and nobody will give a flaming crap, because to the user, the ONLY variable that changed was the OS.

On top of that, Linux will have zero compatibility OotB with any games they already own. The vast majority of your Steam libraries will NEVER be ported to Linux code, and if you seriously think emulation/virtualization are viable consumer alternatives in their current state, you're out of your mind.

It will take major shifts in technology and dramatic improvements in UX before the paradigms exist for Linux to make 'compatibility' a seamless consumer experience.

So Linux will stay a niche platform for anything but development/server applications, and while it struggles to pretend it can live up to Gabe's fantasy expectations, Windows 8 will be improving and shipping on new PCs left and right, and Apple will be rounding out everyone who doesn't want Microsoft's platform.

There is no room for Linux with consumers. Period.

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+LostCat

company I work for already decided that windows 8 won't touch a single PC here. about 10 locations worldwide with more 30,000 employees.

There are companies with tens of thousands of employees still running Windows 2000, so what exactly is new with that?

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ArialBlue

Well Origin gave me ~96 Mbit DL speed.

Valve gave me 7 Mbit.

Priorities.

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Athernar

Nope, you can talk about stuff and know abotu them without knowing the actual technical details about the source tehcnicalities.

Yup, you say something needs to be replaced, yet you don't even know what about it needs replacing. That's pretty dumb.

you didn't... hmmm let's analyze

Yup, yes you did.

So stating a personal preference for art-based (You know, textures, scene, setting) games development over relying purely on shaders is a statement that all games should be stylized? Are you stupid? That's not even connected.

And you \still haven't responded to any of my arguments, you've just been going off on tangents and grabbing at strawmen. and no I'm not throwing around buzzwords or terminology and yes I do know what I'm talking about. what that has to do with you however I don't know, I'm no source developer and have no interest in being one.

But yeah, I'll be waiting for you to actually reply to my last post since you pretty much ignored all of it, except the parts where you could skip of on some tangent again.

What arguments? All you've done is pretend to know more than you actually do, spew some rubbish about how the "core" of Source needing to be replaced when you can't even cite any specific reasons.

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