Windows 8 without touch, I still like it


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So after having used it for a while on a desktop with modern UI, I have to say I dig it...

I don't find it illogical at all, and I don't find having to tap the start button or bringing up the charms sidebar a pain to flick back to modern. I love the search on the start screen, love the contextual search too! I can only wish that WP8 has the same search functionality!! The contextual search on the start screen works well with the mouse, and personally I like that I get categorised search relevant to what I want, be it apps/email/store or whatever. Most developers have updated their apps to cater for the scroll wheel, or two finger scroll on the folio, which makes it easy to pan through the pages. Snapping apps to the sides is neat, especially Xbox music, bing, Wikipedia app and a few others. I'm writing this in modern IE in main view and Xbox music is snapped to the left. would be nice if you could have two widths, one slim and the other what we have now.

The flick back to desktop mode is not as jarring as it seems, you're thrown to desktop mode so you have backwards compatibility... It doesn't feel like a broken experience at all, the start button has simply been replaced, but you've been given a complete window into everything on the pc with the added bonus of having the live tiles. Info at a glance is pretty cool...

I've upgraded both of my PC's and my Folio-13, on which the track pad works remarkably well.

Gaming Rig: This thing flies! Everything is buttery smooth!!!

i7 2600k

GTX670

24GB RAM

Intel 510 120GB SSD

Media Centre: if you're a WMC user, windows 8 was made for it!

i5 3470

16GB RAM

Samsung 830 64GB SSD

Connected to a Samsung 51" 1080p plasma via a Samsung surround unit and HDMI

BT-130 Keyboard - tiny thing!

Windows 8, and with the added WMC, is a media consumers treat! Having MC there gives you an almost identical UI to modern to access your content and record/watch live TV. But the modern UI plus the apps give you unified UI and access to catch-up apps and Netflix/hulu for streaming media too. That almost unified interface is not at all difficult to browse through on that tiny keyboard, it simply works!

Initially I didn't like Xbox music, but have learnt to use search a lot more to find my content. Searching makes it a little easier, but I wish they'd have made it function more like the Zune client than how it is currently. I don't see any reason why the UI in Zune client can't be translated to modern... it could even be refined in modern!

Overall I find myself using the mouse less and less and I'm moving back to the keyboard more and more. I need to print out the list of shortcut keys!

I'll admit, it may take a while to get used to, but I've been using it in it's evolutionary stages and now in final release and I like it a lot. I would like to get a Surface for a touch device, but I rarely take my ultrabook out of the house and do more on the phone, so I can't justify it. I'm upgrading the Lumia 800 for a 920 instead.

That's my two cents...

I like it. I wish I had the ability to pin anything to the start screen though, like say the 'shutdown' button or any random item I come across.

You have a nice system. Mine is similar, built up a 2600k running it at 4.3 GHZ shortly after launch. Nice thing about our systems, is that you can guestimate how powerful the next generation of consoles will be, and you can guestimate how much faster processor speeds will increase over the next few years (not that much unfortuately, the money seems to be making them efficient and cool now and with no competition from AMD intel has no incentive to be aggressive) .. I predict these 2600K rigs will still be capable of running the latest games 5 years from now. Only have 16GB of ram in mine though. :) A C300 crucial SSD too. Ivy bridge is not any big deal, we shall see what the next generation brings.

I have an I5-2400 for my bedroom system built around the same time, got the processor cheap on ebay, cheap motherboard, using the integrated video on the processor. Cheap and energy efficient, but plenty fast for everything I use it for. Checking ebay, these things still sell used for the price i got mine new for after all this time. Nice.

I still think MS missed a great opportunity to turn Media Center into a Metro media hub - Combining Music and Video, but alas...

agreed

I still wish they would have at least given it a face-lift so it didn't look so out of place though

I like it. I wish I had the ability to pin anything to the start screen though, like say the 'shutdown' button or any random item I come across.

You sort of can, with some applications that are out there. Shutdown button, no, but random folders / applications / links, sure.

I like it too, however it could definitely be better.

Things I like about windows 8 over windows 7:

Faster boot

Refined explorer, file copy, and task manager UI's.

Refined classic desktop theme (native win32 apps look MUCH better without that atrocious purple toolbar)

Improved windows defender

Start screen: After using win8 for a while, I actually do prefer the start screen over the start menu. However I find the metro apps absolutely pointless on the desktop.

What I don't like:

The metro apps. Some of them lack some pretty basic functionality. Half of them are useless (or don't work at all) if you don't have a microsoft account. Almost every bit of functionality is hidden behind the right click menu. They are clearly designed for tablets, and there's nothing wrong with that, *but* if you install windows on a desktop metro apps are the default for opening music/pictures etc.. so I had to go through and change that.

Hot corners/charm bar can be annoying on a desktop, particularly with multi monitor. luckily you can mostly avoid having to use them using keyboard shortcuts.

Shutdown is *not* a "setting" microsoft :p

OP, take a look at the following article I posted, if you haven't already, and if you go to the link at the bottom of the article, there's a video of it in action:

http://www.neowin.ne...-input-to-win8/

...

I don't get it... Windows Media Center hasn't changed its UI for over 3 years...

no, but it's modern (or metro as it was) in it's infancy...modern ui is basically this on steroids.

Didn't they dissolve the Media Center team after they made Win7 MC compatible with Win8? They have no interest in putting any effort into MC anymore..

very likely, they also removed driver certification for BDA tuner cards too...

Shutdown is *not* a "setting" microsoft :p

Yes it is :) Seriously, the Settings charm seems to really mean something like "functions that are about the app / system itself, rather than what you do with it". That's why stuff like Feedback (a "meta" function about the app, not the first-order purpose of the app), Rate and review (ditto) and even Help (about how you use it, not something you use it for) as well as preferences/options itself go there (on the app level) and why power controls (something that's about your computer, not something you do with your computer) is there too. It's a fairly clear concept IMO but something that's difficult to put in a word / icon so they probably just figured Settings was as good as any for it.

Then what is Devices?

I finally got my hands on one of the Acer touch ultrabooks and been having fun with it so far. For some things, touch can be quite nice. One thing I did notice is that they don't come with any sort of haptic feedback.

Can anyone with a Surface report on how the haptic is on it? (I've noticed there is quite a range even within the WP7 ecosystem and not sure how that plays out on larger devices).

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    • Removed the blue and underline as you did not post a link. This would also  be considered spamming.
    • Why it's almost impossible to produce a smartphone in the United States by Hamid Ganji If you look at the back of some Apple products, you can see the famous phrase “Designed by Apple in California, Assembled in China.” This phrase appears on products from one of the largest smartphone brands in the United States. These products are designed in the U.S., but their manufacturing takes place in China, India, Vietnam, or even Brazil. But why can’t Apple, as one of the largest American tech companies, produce its iPhones on U.S. soil? The idea for this topic came to me after the Trump Foundation launched a smartphone called the T1 and claimed that it was designed and built with American values in mind. However, this claim did not last long, as it was revealed that Trump’s phone was actually a rebranded HTC U24 Pro, with only a gold case and minor internal component changes. You see? Even a phone that is supposed to represent American values is manufactured in China. With a gross domestic product (GDP) exceeding $32 trillion, the United States is currently the world’s largest economy, while China ranks second with around $20 trillion. On the other hand, the United States is by a wide margin the global leader in various technological fields, and American companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars annually on research and development. From Apple and Google to Microsoft, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and others, American tech and industrial giants lead their foreign competitors in many sectors. The United States also has no shortage of smartphone brands. Apple, Google, and Motorola are among the major brands in the smartphone market, collectively holding a significant share. However, the vast majority of their products are manufactured outside the United States. So why is it that the world’s largest economy, home to the most advanced technology companies and industrial powers, cannot produce a smartphone on its own soil? Let’s explore this question together. Even threats to impose tariffs won’t work After Trump entered the White House as the 47th President of the United States, his administration adopted strict tariff policies. One of these policies was the imposition of a 25% tariff on smartphones manufactured outside the United States. Trump said he “had a little problem” with Apple CEO Tim Cook over producing smartphones outside the U.S. So he thought that threatening a 25% tax on imported phones might force Apple to bring manufacturing back to the United States. “I have long ago informed Tim Cook of Apple that I expect their iPhones that will be sold in the United States of America will be manufactured and built in the United States, not India, or anyplace else,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. Image via The White House Although Apple currently manufactures some of the iPhone’s chips in the United States with TSMC's help, it still shows no willingness to shift full iPhone production to the country. At the time, renowned Apple supply chain analyst Ming-Chi Kuo wrote on X, “In terms of profitability, it’s way better for Apple to take the hit of a 25% tariff on iPhones sold in the US market than to move iPhone assembly lines back to the US.” However, manufacturing a smartphone in the United States is not as easy as it might seem, and many technical and economic barriers are involved. The lack of necessary manufacturing hubs There is a clear reason why many companies prefer to manufacture their products in China. China has established itself as the main global manufacturing hub for international companies, and over the past few decades, large contract manufacturers have emerged there, allowing companies like Apple to outsource production. One such example is Foxconn, which also manufactures some Apple products in India. Building the infrastructure required to produce smartphones in the United States would require tens of billions of dollars in new investment. Factories would need to be built, essential manufacturing equipment would have to be installed, and, most importantly, a skilled workforce capable of operating these systems would need to be recruited and trained. The United States currently lacks the core infrastructure needed to manufacture smartphones, and for this reason, many companies prefer to outsource production to Chinese contractors rather than spend tens of billions of dollars to build that infrastructure, which is significantly more economically efficient. Additionally, building such infrastructure in the United States could take up to a decade, ultimately leading to a significant increase in the product's final price for consumers. Shortage of trained labor in the U.S. compared to China Decades of serving as a global manufacturing hub have allowed China to build a massive talent pool in the production sector that is almost unmatched worldwide. Today, if a company chooses to manufacture its products in China, it can be confident that the workers involved in production have years of experience in their respective roles and are capable of producing high-quality goods with minimal errors. Even if we assume that tens of billions of dollars were invested in building smartphone manufacturing infrastructure in the United States, finding skilled workers would remain highly challenging. Apple CEO Tim Cook visiting the iPhone 6 assembly line in China in 2014. Image: Tim Cook on X In a 2015 interview on CBS’s 60 Minutes, Tim Cook said the main reason Apple isn’t producing in the US is a lack of skills. "China put an enormous focus on manufacturing, in what you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The US over time began to stop having as many vocational kinds of skills. I mean you could take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in the room that we're currently sitting in. In China you would have to have multiple football fields,” Cook said. Also, in 2017, at the Fortune Global Forum in Guangzhou, Cook once again emphasized the importance of highly skilled Chinese workers. “China has moved into very advanced manufacturing, so you find in China the intersection of craftsman kind of skill, and sophisticated robotics and the computer science world. That intersection, which is very rare to find anywhere, that kind of skill, is very important to our business because of the precision and quality level that we like. The thing that most people focus on if they’re a foreigner coming to China is the size of the market, and obviously, it’s the biggest market in the world in so many areas. But for us, the number one attraction is the quality of the people,” Apple CEO said. Higher labor costs in the United States Producing almost any product in the United States is more expensive than in many other countries, and one of the main reasons is the higher cost of labor in the U.S. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, median weekly earnings of full-time workers in the United States were $1,235 in the first quarter of 2026. Meanwhile, the average annual salary in China's private sector in 2025 was RMB 71,590 (US$9,961). In many parts of the world, the weekly wage of an American worker is equivalent to several months of income. Another important factor to consider is that in the United States, the workforce capable of working on a smartphone assembly line is highly specialized and therefore commands higher-than-average wages. According to an estimate by Bank of America, producing an iPhone in the U.S. is technically possible, but “iPhone cost can increase 25% purely on higher labor cost in the U.S.” However, this 25% increase applies only if final assembly is performed in the United States while components are still sourced from China or elsewhere. In this case, the price of a base iPhone would rise from $799 to around $1,000. But in another scenario, if Apple were to produce the required components for the iPhone within the United States, production costs could increase by more than 90%. Trump’s dream for a “Made in the USA” iPhone might never come true In a free-market capitalist economy, one of the primary responsibilities of any CEO is to maximize profit. Using Apple as an example, Tim Cook’s role is to maximize the company’s profits so that it can fund research and development for new products and invest in areas such as artificial intelligence, while also keeping shareholders satisfied. Therefore, it is entirely understandable that Apple would choose not to bring its manufacturing back to the United States and instead keep production in countries where labor is cheaper, and products can be manufactured at a lower cost, thereby maximizing its profit margins. What is your opinion about manufacturing smartphones in the United States? If you are an American citizen, would you be willing to pay hundreds of dollars more for a smartphone made domestically in the USA? Let us know in the comments.
    • Cheers everyone for the replies. It's been very useful. 👍
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