62 replies to this topic

[AJerman]

HawkMan, on 29 January 2013 - 06:05, said:

That's an app bug not a windows bug. MediaPortal used to do this, but now works properly in hgh dpi.

Is it or is it something that apps have found a workaround for? It seems to me like it shouldn't have happened in the first place, and maybe that's why many apps don't have the issue now when they used to, because they are fixed now. Either way, maybe I'll give it a try again, but there are still so many reasons why DPI scaling seems so poor. Fonts are terribly ugly, even when they aren't scaled and blurry, and it's Microsoft's ecosystem. I know they can't control third parties, but they can push them to support high DPI better. It's time.

Perhaps I can get some more interesting screenshots...

[HawkMan]

Fonts are blurry in programs that aren't programmed to support DPI scaling.

it's been said several times in this thread, the apps need to support it. 125%, 150% and the rest looks perfectly fine on all apps that are made to support it. apps that don't support it simply get scaled and look blurry.

[AJerman]

AJerman, on 29 January 2013 - 17:46, said:

Is it or is it something that apps have found a workaround for? It seems to me like it shouldn't have happened in the first place, and maybe that's why many apps don't have the issue now when they used to, because they are fixed now. Either way, maybe I'll give it a try again, but there are still so many reasons why DPI scaling seems so poor. Fonts are terribly ugly, even when they aren't scaled and blurry, and it's Microsoft's ecosystem. I know they can't control third parties, but they can push them to support high DPI better. It's time.

Perhaps I can get some more interesting screenshots...

Well those were famous last words if I've ever said them.

Changed my resolution to native (3840x2400) and DPI to 150% to take a look at some things. Changing my screen resolution and DPI caused explorer to stop responding. Explorer not responding caused me to do a ctrl-alt-del to try to open task manager to restart it. Clicking task manager caused my entire computer to hang. My hung computer caused me to have to turn it off by holding the power button. Holding the power button to turn it off managed to corrupt my system drive. This caused me to spend an hour trying to recover it, only to remember the entire hard drive is encrypted (work) and there was no way to unlock it and then boot into recovery software, so I was screwed. Changing my screen resolution and DPI tanked my entire work computer. Thanks Microsoft and AMD!! Keep up the awesome work.

And of course a reformat and reinstall wouldn't be so bad.... if it weren't pulling OS image files from completely across the country. Instead reinstalling took 4 hours. God dammit I hate computers sometimes.

Now it's 9 PM and I'd like to go home.

[Jeezy4]

You may have noticed as soon as you go up the DPI to 100% above the cursor pixelated.
There is a solution for those interested : http://sourceforge.n.../cursorchanger/
Must admit, the system is still not optimized for Hi-Res.

[Marcin Kurek]

theyarecomingforyou, on 28 January 2013 - 21:09, said:

Microsoft really needs to move over to vector art and allow users to freely scale the interface to their choosing (...)

That's precisely what they did with WPF, for all it's worth.

[Jeezy4]

Samsung presented a model 13.3 "with Windows 8 (the prototype) with a resolution of 2560x1440.
https://www.youtube....h?v=LUYlnhDfvlo

And Acer has released in 2013 a notebook with resolution 2880 * 1620
http://www.pcworld.c...p-displays.html

But I wonder if they do not expect the Windows Blue (hoping they will find a way to take better care of these types of screens) in order to get their products.
With the current state of Windows, it is difficult to bear such screens. (Between blurry fonts or DPI not upscaled).

Apple has anticipated the thing and allowed developers to update their applications. But if Windows is interested in something then it goes to the democratization of the Retina in the PC.

[Aergan]

Had a response back from LogMeIn on DPI scaling issues:


Hello ,

Thank you for contacting LogMeIn.

I would be happy to address your question. This is a known issue with Server 2012 and Windows 8. I am adding your example to a parent ticket and you will be notified via email when we have a permanent solution to this problem.

[Jeezy4]

New capture

Adobe Reader XI (font blur) : http://d.pr/i/XiRR - Adobe Reader XI Install (very small) : http://d.pr/i/fL58

Skype 6.1 (font blur) : http://d.pr/i/ak81- http://d.pr/i/REpH

Mumble (optimized half)
: http://d.pr/i/w5Ew - http://d.pr/i/eFjY

Viscosity 1.4 (font & image blur) : http://d.pr/i/VKZU - http://d.pr/i/C1Gq

Java (panel Control WT*) : http://d.pr/i/Rp5g

Word (good) : http://d.pr/i/YXv9

Visual Studio 2012 : http://d.pr/i/s4I1 (well designed but the window for the developer license is not optimized against)

Nvidia Control Panel (Not optimize) : http://d.pr/i/t5dR and Update Nvidia (font blur) : http://d.pr/i/K4FE

CCleaner (font blur) : http://d.pr/i/cy2l - http://d.pr/i/zhht - http://d.pr/i/6qtY

IE 10 : http://d.pr/i/oeus - http://d.pr/i/lIPt (don't know x2 reproduce images with a resolution and DPI to 200%. Apple images are blurred as Youtube logo)

Origin update (font blur) : http://d.pr/i/5rHF

Intel Rapid (Good) : http://d.pr/i/2Tw7

Windows UI (Good) : http://d.pr/i/yVCn - http://d.pr/i/jzNb - http://d.pr/i/v3zx - http://d.pr/i/mK4C - http://d.pr/i/2L6j - http://d.pr/i/8nF5 - http://d.pr/i/skBP - http://d.pr/i/SZMD - http://d.pr/i/fRxj - http://d.pr/i/koId - http://d.pr/i/ZrVK


Here I made a few catches to show the shortcomings of the resolution to 200%. The workstation and the control panel is well optimized but for those who is software that is not the case.
Some say that we must reduce the DPI 200 DPI but have a rMBP it's nice and no need to paste the screen.

[Aergan]

Sadly both Nvidia and AMD haven't given a thought to DPI scaling on their control panels which is ironic because Intel have (whether accidental or intended).

[Jeezy4]

Aergan, on 03 February 2013 - 00:45, said:

Sadly both Nvidia and AMD haven't given a thought to DPI scaling on their control panels which is ironic because Intel have (whether accidental or intended).

When I recovered this problem to Nvidia I was referred to this page and I had to be my DPI 140 and 180. And returned the blame on Windows.
Support Nvidia not doing their job.
http://blogs.msdn.co...nt-screens.aspx

[HawkMan]

I wish people would stop referring to high DPI as reitna as if Apple invented high DPI though.

[Subhadip]

Jeezy4, on 03 February 2013 - 11:15, said:

When I recovered this problem to Nvidia I was referred to this page and I had to be my DPI 140 and 180. And returned the blame on Windows.
Support Nvidia not doing their job.
http://blogs.msdn.co...nt-screens.aspx

Yes, they are not. That link talks about scaling in Metro. I have to say, scaling in Metro works fabulously but the catch is there are only two levels - 140 and 180. There are some cases where 120 would have been useful, like say 1920x1080 on 13.3 inches. There 100% is too small but 140% (forced through Ease of Access) is too big!

Desktop is a completely different thing altogether, and that is mostly what we are discussing here. It works well for apps that support it, but for some like Nvidia CP it's a right mess. The advantage over Metro is you can of course choose your exact scaling rather than just relying on 140 or 180 as in Metro. IMO they should allow more control over the Metro if possible and coax developers into updating their desktop apps.

[GP007]

Subhadip, on 03 February 2013 - 11:44, said:

Yes, they are not. That link talks about scaling in Metro. I have to say, scaling in Metro works fabulously but the catch is there are only two levels - 140 and 180. There are some cases where 120 would have been useful, like say 1920x1080 on 13.3 inches. There 100% is too small but 140% (forced through Ease of Access) is too big!

Desktop is a completely different thing altogether, and that is mostly what we are discussing here. It works well for apps that support it, but for some like Nvidia CP it's a right mess. The advantage over Metro is you can of course choose your exact scaling rather than just relying on 140 or 180 as in Metro. IMO they should allow more control over the Metro if possible and coax developers into updating their desktop apps.

I think that will happen as they mature the metro side itself. As for the desktop, it's clear that the app developers have to update their stuff for higher dpi and not just lay blame on windows for what really is in the end their own laziness.

[Jeezy4]

Subhadip, on 03 February 2013 - 11:44, said:

Yes, they are not. That link talks about scaling in Metro. I have to say, scaling in Metro works fabulously but the catch is there are only two levels - 140 and 180. There are some cases where 120 would have been useful, like say 1920x1080 on 13.3 inches. There 100% is too small but 140% (forced through Ease of Access) is too big!

Desktop is a completely different thing altogether, and that is mostly what we are discussing here. It works well for apps that support it, but for some like Nvidia CP it's a right mess. The advantage over Metro is you can of course choose your exact scaling rather than just relying on 140 or 180 as in Metro. IMO they should allow more control over the Metro if possible and coax developers into updating their desktop apps.

If I use the 140 (it is very small) and 180 (small). A 200 is about right (You do not need a hand lens on 15"). Use 180 on 24" or 27" no problem but a 15" the difference is quickly noticed.

HawkMan, on 03 February 2013 - 11:30, said:

I wish people would stop referring to high DPI as reitna as if Apple invented high DPI though.

Nobody said otherwise. Windows uses the DPI when Apple uses Retina.

[HawkMan]

Retina is just a marketing name for high DPI, they use high DPI not retina.