Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

31 posts in this topic

Posted

People claim to videotape UFOs in the sky above Earth. They also spot unusual-looking objects in NASA camera feeds at the International Space Station.

Now, a growing number of individuals insist they're using their telescopes and cameras to reveal UFOs around the moon, according to the International Business Times.

Many odd things have been seen by amateur and professional astronomers on the moon over decades, and YouTube affords the opportunity to look at alleged UFOs flying across, toward and away from our nearest astronomical neighbor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vshlUbWz2zY

Part of the problem with most videos like these is the lack of specific, helpful information to accompany the visual "evidence," so it's difficult to know what's real and what was created from a clever software app.

But, lunar anomalies are not new phenomena. They've been reported by astronomers going back to the 1700s. Strange things seen by the scientists of centuries past included mysterious bright lights or glowing spots on the moon. In 1869, Great Britain's Royal Astronomical Society conducted a study of unusual moving lights. After numerous observations of this activity, the lights just turned off.

On July 29, 1953, New York Herald Tribune science editor John J. O'Neill noticed, through his telescope, a huge bridge-like object spanning 12 miles in the lunar area known as Mare Crisium. Other observers, including Hugh Percy Wilkins of the British Astronomical Association, confirmed O'Neill's sighting on the lunar surface. The object that became known as O'Neill's Bridge, was eventually thought to be nothing more than a combination of lights and shadows.

The history of the Apollo flights to the moon in the late 1960s into the 1970s included countless tabloid stories of supposed UFO encounters experienced by the astronauts.

Apollo 11 astronaut Buzz Aldrin describes a UFO that accompanied them en route to the moon in 1969.

[url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/ufos-on-the-moon_n_2482840.html?utm_hp_ref=ufo"]more & video[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I thought Buzz's "sighting" had been debunked as being one of the SLA panels that was jetisoned from the S-IVB stage?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='HSoft' timestamp='1359649225' post='595492528']
I thought Buzz's "sighting" had been debunked as being one of the SLA panels that was jetisoned from the S-IVB stage?
[/quote]

That's what they want people to believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm still under the impression that no matter what proof or evidence is presented, people will still scream fake. Buzz for instance was HIGHLY trained and would know what a panel from his own ship looked like. But all it takes in someone to say something that lines up with what a skeptic believes and the story is automatically "debunked" and the highly skilled professional is all of a sudden delusional.

I remember Buzz saying that there are monoliths on Mars. But he's nothing but a senile old fool...
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359666883' post='595493262']
[b]I'm still under the impression that no matter what proof or evidence is presented, people will still scream fake.[/b] Buzz for instance was HIGHLY trained and would know what a panel from his own ship looked like. But all it takes in someone to say something that lines up with what a skeptic believes and the story is automatically "debunked" and the highly skilled professional is all of a sudden delusional.

I remember Buzz saying that there are monoliths on Mars. But he's nothing but a senile old fool...
[/quote]


No matter how fake something is, how far out an idea is,regardless of what ever counter evidence may exist, someone out there will still believe in it. It goes both ways.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359666883' post='595493262']
I'm still under the impression that no matter what proof or evidence is presented, people will still scream fake. Buzz for instance was HIGHLY trained and would know what a panel from his own ship looked like. But all it takes in someone to say something that lines up with what a skeptic believes and the story is automatically "debunked" and the highly skilled professional is all of a sudden delusional.

I remember Buzz saying that there are monoliths on Mars. But he's nothing but a senile old fool...
[/quote]


I guess you missed this part:

[quote]Part of the problem with most videos like these is the lack of specific, helpful information to accompany the visual "evidence," so it's difficult to know what's real and what was created from a clever software app.[/quote]


It's like the Cydonia region on Mars which people thought had a face on it and proved E.T. or Martians were there. Turns out it was just another case of pareidolia.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cydonia_(region_of_Mars)

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast24may_1/


But, hey, maybe it's another cover-up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='mudslag' timestamp='1359667787' post='595493294']
No matter how fake something is, how far out an idea is,regardless of what ever counter evidence may exist, someone out there will still believe in it. It goes both ways.
[/quote]

I agree 100%! Problem I have is with people that swear everything is fake. That bothers me. Not everything in the skies is an alien craft from Venus, Mars etc. But some things that have been sighted are extremely convincing and the skeptics will still dismiss it as fake. Some things will never be good enough for some people.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359671508' post='595493404']
I agree 100%! Problem I have is with people that swear everything is fake. That bothers me. Not everything in the skies is an alien craft from Venus, Mars etc. But some things that have been sighted are extremely convincing and the skeptics will still dismiss it as fake. Some things will never be good enough for some people.
[/quote]


To be fair "extremely convincing" is subjective. In this day and age of technology, visual evidence is no where near a standard that qualifies as actual evidence, which seems to be pretty much the only thing anyone can ever provide these days. Eye witness testimony is even further down the flag pole then video or picture evidence. Til someone can provide hard proof, such as something that is actually alien to us, then "extremely convincing" will remain subjective.
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359671508' post='595493404']I agree 100%! Problem I have is with people that swear everything is fake. That bothers me. Not everything in the skies is an alien craft from Venus, Mars etc. But some things that have been sighted are extremely convincing and the skeptics will still dismiss it as fake. Some things will never be good enough for some people.[/quote]

If there was any evidence for it then people would take it seriously but eyewitness accounts are inherently unreliable. People swear they see ghosts and that they can talk to the dead but I wouldn't give that a second thought. As for astronauts, they're under huge psychological pressure and tend to have very extreme personalities - it's not a surprise that many snap, just like so many soldiers do. I'm perfectly willing to consider what they say but I won't believe it without evidence.

Occam's Razor dictates that the theory with the least assumptions is the most likely to be correct. Which is more likely - that somebody mistook what they saw for an alien craft; or that an advanced alien civilization has travelled thousands of light years to fly around our planet undetected and without any attempt at communication? It's one thing to remain open-minded; it's another to believe in something without evidence.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='mudslag' timestamp='1359671967' post='595493414']
To be fair "extremely convincing" is subjective. In this day and age of technology, visual evidence is no where near a standard that qualifies as actual evidence, which seems to be pretty much the only thing anyone can ever provide these days. Eye witness testimony is even further down the flag pole then video or picture evidence. Til someone can provide hard proof, such as something that is actually alien to us, then "extremely convincing" will remain subjective.
[/quote]

That's fair and again, I agree with your train of thought as I have plenty of other times on a wide range of topics. Now, let's take the following video, can everything in that video be explained? Take out the parts of explainable cloud phenomenon and "Norway Missile Tests" and can every one of the things in that video be explained? You don't want to be so open minded that your brain falls out but you don't want to be so closed minded that your brain suffocates. There is even one scenario in that video that the Chinese government couldn't even explain and they shut down a Chinese airport. Can that be explained? Air traffic controllers and pilots had no idea what it was. My point is, while something

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1359672894' post='595493444']
If there was any evidence for it then people would take it seriously but eyewitness accounts are inherently unreliable. People swear they see ghosts and that they can talk to the dead but I wouldn't give that a second thought. As for astronauts, they're under huge psychological pressure and tend to have very extreme personalities - it's not a surprise that many snap, just like so many soldiers do. I'm perfectly willing to consider what they say but I won't believe it without evidence.

Occam's Razor dictates that the theory with the least assumptions is the most likely to be correct. Which is more likely - that somebody mistook what they saw for an alien craft; or that an advanced alien civilization has travelled thousands of light years to fly around our planet undetected and without any attempt at communication? It's one thing to remain open-minded; it's another to believe in something without evidence.
[/quote]

But that's what I'm saying. No matter the evidence it will never be good enough. When you have NASA officials, Air Force officials, the Mexican Government, hackers, released evidence from Britain and God knows what else, what more is needed? Before Photoshop, there was great evidence and people still never believed.

Take a look at Roswell, the Air Force put out a press release saying they recovered a flying saucer, after a few hours they corrected that saying it was a weather balloon. Do people really believe that? This is the Air Force, they deal with fighter jets and ****. They KNOW what a weather balloon is vs a flying craft. It's like if you go to a Mercedes Benz dealership and buy a S550 AMG but realize when you get home that it's a Kia Optima. That doesn't happen.

As far as staying incognito, reports have said that we have been in contact with other civilizations from different planets and have even sent people to other planets as a sort of intergalactic trade. How true that is, I have no idea. Then you have the Russian* PM saying that aliens exist among us but he would never say how many because it would cause a public panic.

But I know, even the Russian* PM is delusional and there are reasons they people I mentioned are wrong and their claims can be debunked. Doesn't matter how credible they were before speaking of UFO's.

These are just my opinions, I'm not trying to sway anyone either way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

A number of those in that video have been talked about on this forum in the past. Like the Jerusalem one was found to be a hoax. The spiral one and a few others (the China one) were rockets that gave a unique reaction look in the atmosphere, the hole in the cloud in Russia was a "Hole punch cloud" also called a "Fallstreak Hole". Most of these are identified later after the fact but people like this video creator still use them trying to make it out to be more then they are. The agenda is to make it seems like a conspiracy or alien related, nothing here identifies or unidentified equates alien or cover up as being suggested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359674761' post='595493484']But that's what I'm saying. No matter the evidence it will never be good enough. When you have NASA officials, Air Force officials, the Mexican Government, hackers, released evidence from Britain and God knows what else, what more is needed? Before Photoshop, there was great evidence and people still never believed.[/quote]

And none of that has reached the threshold of conclusive evidence. Most of it is grainy video, unreliable eyewitness testimony and hoax documents. It's no more credible than the birther movement or the 9/11 conspiracy theories.

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359674761' post='595493484']Take a look at Roswell, the Air Force put out a press release saying they recovered a flying saucer, after a few hours they corrected that saying it was a weather balloon. Do people really believe that?[/quote]

Even if it [i]was[/i] a "flying saucer", there is no reason to believe it is of extra-terrestrial origin. It's far more likely a US or Russian experimental plane that was unknown to the people who found it.

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359674761' post='595493484']As far as staying incognito, reports have said that we have been in contact with other civilizations from different planets and have even sent people to other planets as a sort of intergalactic trade. How true that is, I have no idea.[/quote]

Oh, "reports" hey? Case closed then. Aliens are real. :rolleyes:

I honestly don't know how to respond to people who take this sort of nonsense seriously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359666883' post='595493262']
I'm still under the impression that no matter what proof or evidence is presented, people will still scream fake. Buzz for instance was HIGHLY trained and would know what a panel from his own ship looked like. But all it takes in someone to say something that lines up with what a skeptic believes and the story is automatically "debunked" and the highly skilled professional is all of a sudden delusional.

I remember Buzz saying that there are monoliths on Mars. But he's nothing but a senile old fool...
[/quote]

Not exactly. An object at a distance on the Moon can look completely different than the same object at the same distance on Earth. Our atmosphere distorts light, since there is no atmosphere on the moon, the light doesn't get distorted, and will throw off an observer's senses.

Same thing applies here, thanks to orbital mechanics, there's no telling how far these objects are from the moon, or what their size actually is. Take this photo as an example:

[img]http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/614349main_jsc2012e017827_full.jpg[/img]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359674008' post='595493464']
That's fair and again, I agree with your train of thought as I have plenty of other times on a wide range of topics. Now, let's take the following video, can everything in that video be explained? Take out the parts of explainable cloud phenomenon and "Norway Missile Tests" and can every one of the things in that video be explained? You don't want to be so open minded that your brain falls out but you don't want to be so closed minded that your brain suffocates. There is even one scenario in that video that the Chinese government couldn't even explain and they shut down a Chinese airport. Can that be explained? Air traffic controllers and pilots had no idea what it was. [b]My point is, while something
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359674008' post='595493464']
So if ONE thing might not be able to be explained, that's enough evidence, for me at least that intelligent life exists. Should be for most scientists but personal opinion gets in the way.


[/quote]


UNexplained or UNidentified in no way equates alien life or "enough" evidence. And NO it should never be the same for ANY scientist, science should NEVER accept something that can't explain for any personal view of an answer. That's basically what you're doing, you can't explain something so you give it an answer that you WANT it to be. A true scientist would never let a personal opinion overrule scientific reasoning.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1359672894' post='595493444']
Occam's Razor dictates that the theory with the least assumptions is the most likely to be correct. Which is more likely - that somebody mistook what they saw for an alien craft; or that an advanced alien civilization has traveled thousands of light years to fly around our planet undetected and without any attempt at communication? It's one thing to remain open-minded; it's another to believe in something without evidence.
[/quote]

Why is an Alien visit any less likely than some other explanation ?

Just because Earth [i]assumes[/i] this or that theory, does not automatically mean that [i]our[/i] Science is 100% correct.

The Universe is a very big space, with uncountable millions of worlds and other realities.

Earth isn't the oldest planet either.

There could very well be much older and more advanced Civilizations.

There can be other Dimensions which we don't even begin to understand.

Just because Earth people do not know [i]how[/i] to travel vast distances of Space, or travel between dimensions, is no proof that it can not be done.

Humans have quite an ego, assuming that we are the one & only.

I don't know what you accept as [i]evidence[/i], but I personally do not believe that all witnesses are kooks, liars, uneducated.

Not all videos, photographs are faked.

People [i]have[/i] witnessed non-Earthly craft and other Intelligent beings.

We are [i]not[/i] alone. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Hum' timestamp='1359679900' post='595493638']
Why is an Alien visit any less likely than some other explanation ?

Just because Earth [i]assumes[/i] this or that theory, does not automatically mean that [i]our[/i] Science is 100% correct.

The Universe is a very big space, with uncountable millions of worlds and other realities.

Earth isn't the oldest planet either.

There could very well be much older and more advanced Civilizations.

There can be other Dimensions which we don't even begin to understand.

Just because Earth people do not know [i]how[/i] to travel vast distances of Space, or travel between dimensions, is no proof that it can not be done.

Humans have quite an ego, assuming that we are the one & only.

I don't know what you accept as [i]evidence[/i], but I personally do not believe that all witnesses are kooks, liars, uneducated.

Not all videos, photographs are faked.

People [i]have[/i] witnessed non-Earthly craft and other Intelligent beings.

We are [i]not[/i] alone. ;)
[/quote]


Why can't a catch a leprechaun that will give me a pot of gold and 10k wishes? Why can't I also find a living unicorn Pegasus, Iv looked all over the internet for one and no one is selling them. With all these other dimensions, you would think one would pop into ours at some point. I want answers damn it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='mudslag' timestamp='1359677065' post='595493568']
UNexplained or UNidentified in no way equates alien life or "enough" evidence. And NO it should never be the same for ANY scientist, science should NEVER accept something that can't explain for any personal view of an answer. That's basically what you're doing, you can't explain something so you give it an answer that you WANT it to be. A true scientist would never let a personal opinion overrule scientific reasoning.
[/quote]

And this was the answer I was looking for. Now, I have to disagree with you. If 95% of sightings can be explained, does that mean the 5% never happened? What do you do with those? What scientist, in their right mind, would say intelligent alien life doesn't exist if 5% of sightings from credible people cannot be explained?

Take a look at Nick Pope, who worked for the Ministry of Defense for 21 years. Mr. Pope's job was to advise on the threat posed by other life forms. Why would he have a job like that if they don't think that alien life exists somewhere? For 21 years at that? Then take a look at Carol Rosin who was a part of The Disclosure Project. Look at her credentials and tell me she is crazy. These people are much much much more intelligent than the people on here and they believe that intelligent alien life exists. So why would any of you rule it out? That is what I call making personal opinions get in the way of logic.

Gary McKinnon had access to government computers for 13 months and said he found evidence of UFO's, non-terrestrial officials and zero-point energy. He wasn't trying to sell a book. What did he gain besides headache? Did he waste all 13 months just to trick the American Public? Wiki-Leaks were about to release UFO related documents but was shut down before they could. Why do those documents exist? Just to make fun of "tin-foil hat wearers"? If this stuff is so fake why are they stored on Government computers?

Back to The Disclosure Project. 400 of the most credible witnesses that you can find, say UFO's and alien life exists, are they ALL crazy? I'm not delusional, I don't rely on conspiracy theories, I'm highly logical and this is SIMPLE logic. If someone in a position to know more than me in a specific topic tells me what it is, I believe them. I'm not quoting lunatics, I'm quoting real life scholars and people with unimpeachable credentials but yet and still I'm crazy for believing them? Oh okay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

5% of unexplained does not in ANYWAY equate alien life, it ONLY equates UNexplained that's it nothing more. Also labeling someone "credible" is moot if that person can't explain something either.


As for people like Nick Pope, many govs have similar people/groups who draw up plans and scenarios for "what if" type situations. In one of History channels dooms day shows they showed how the gov even has plans for something like Yellowstone erupting. I think you can thank Hollywood and our history of science fiction love for our govs making such plans for the slight event of these "what ifs". We humans tend to scare pretty easily, its easy to be scared over some books and movies and think it's best to have a plan for such a case, plus it makes for good training at some point. Even the UN has a special group who's job it is to work up on what to do with first contact. It's better to have a plan and not need it then not have a plan and need it. If I remember correctly even the military plays out a zombie scenario for how they would handle some kind of strange outbreak that cause people to not be in a normal frame of mind. So the idea is not as far fetched as it first sounds once you start to think logically about it.


When wikileaks got all those leaks, some asked about anything relating to aliens, their reply "sorry but no alien leaks".


[quote][color=#282828]Back to The Disclosure Project. 400 of the most credible witnesses that you can find, say UFO's and alien life exists, are they ALL crazy?[/color][/quote]

Sorry but a few billion people believe in god and such, unless those 400 have actual hard evidence, their word is a meaningful as Harry Potter's.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359686215' post='595493860']
And this was the answer I was looking for. Now, I have to disagree with you. If 95% of sightings can be explained, [i]does that mean the 5% never happened? [/i]What do you do with those? [b]What scientist, in their right mind, would say intelligent alien life doesn't exist if 5% of sightings from credible people cannot be explained?[/b]
[/quote]

Wait, what? :s

[i]It doesn't mean 5% didn't happen, it means 5% have no explanation. That is like arguing most stories and claims about haunted houses are debunked, but some haven't been, therefore ghosts exist. That is not a valid form of reasoning.[/i]

[b]A scientist, or any logically person, doesn't conclude anything from something unexplained.[/b]



Sc(k)epticism isn't about being closed or open minded, or taking a side, it is about having a basic standard which you compare claims against. If claims don't stack-up, that is, can't meet the burden of proof or are unfalsifiable then there is no good reason to put anything faith (confidence) in them.

Meeting an alien species is an entirely exciting idea to me, I would personally love it to be true, but the evidence just simply doesn't exist to support it.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359686215' post='595493860']And this was the answer I was looking for. Now, I have to disagree with you. If 95% of sightings can be explained, does that mean the 5% never happened? What do you do with those? What scientist, in their right mind, would say intelligent alien life doesn't exist if 5% of sightings from credible people cannot be explained?[/quote]

Not explained != Proof of aliens

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359686215' post='595493860']Take a look at Nick Pope, who worked for the Ministry of Defense for 21 years. Mr. Pope's job was to advise on the threat posed by other life forms.[/quote]

Preparing for the possibility that we encounter alien life is [i]not[/i] proof that we have already encountered it.

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359686215' post='595493860']Then take a look at Carol Rosin who was a part of The Disclosure Project. Look at her credentials and tell me she is crazy. These people are much much much more intelligent than the people on here and they believe that intelligent alien life exists.[/quote]

Intelligent people are perfectly capable of being wrong, delusional or crazy. There are numerous scientists who believe in religion, for example.

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359686215' post='595493860']Gary McKinnon had access to government computers for 13 months and said he found evidence of UFO's, non-terrestrial officials and zero-point energy. He wasn't trying to sell a book. What did he gain besides headache?[/quote]

He has Asperger's syndrome, a condition "[i]characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests[/i]". Oh, and here's another quote from the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger%27s_Syndrome"]Wikipedia article[/url]:

[quote][i]"Pursuit of specific and narrow areas of interest is one of the most striking features of AS. Individuals with AS may collect volumes of detailed information on a relatively narrow topic such as weather data or star names, without necessarily having a genuine understanding of the broader topic."[/i][/quote]

So people with AS tend to become obsessed with particular topics without truly understanding them. Your argument is based upon people who have diagnosed mental health issues. Everything you have posted as "evidence" is more easily explained by human nature and common sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='C-Squarez' timestamp='1359686215' post='595493860']
Back to The Disclosure Project. 400 of the most credible witnesses that you can find, say UFO's and alien life exists, are they ALL crazy? I'm not delusional, I don't rely on conspiracy theories, I'm highly logical and this is SIMPLE logic. If someone in a position to know more than me in a specific topic tells me what it is, I believe them. I'm not quoting lunatics, I'm quoting real life scholars and people with unimpeachable credentials but yet and still I'm crazy for believing them? Oh okay.
[/quote]

I don't mean to offend you, but you are not being highly logical here.

The Disclosure Project is utter drivel. The fact that they have a shop that sells promotional books, DVDs & new age mysticsm style training courses to contact aliens, should set off alarm bells.

Steven Greer, who runs the Disclosure Project, is a con-artist; a vulture who prays upon the gulible. Many of the witnesses are not credible souces, but known embellishers & outright hoaxers whom have been completely shuned by other UFOlogists.

If you're interested you should read this informative article on the long history of UFO disclosure, and the kind of personalities involved.

[url="http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/disclosure.htm"]http://home.comcast..../disclosure.htm[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

^ Where did you get that rubbish ?

Since when has anyone proven that Greer is a 'con artist' ?

Simply because he talks about facts that you don't want to accept ? :laugh: LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[quote name='Hum' timestamp='1359740868' post='595495008']
^ Where did you get that rubbish ?

Since when has anyone proven that Greer is a 'con artist' ?

Simply because he talks about facts that you don't want to accept ? :laugh: LOL
[/quote]

Oh, there isn't any proof that Greer is a con-artist, at least none I've seen, but I have little doubt he is in this thing for his own finacial gain rather than because he is an avid believer. But that's just what I think.

I am not really surprised you take what Greer says as gospel. You've proven time & time again how suseptible you are to such [color=#333333]gobbledygook[/color]. I'd be pretty surprised if you actually read the article in the link I posted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.