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Making the Windows 8 line great, and lovable for you.

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#1 MorganX

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 20:49

Windows, the OS itself, is in my opinion, one of the greatest engineering feats of our time. To produce a stable, productive OS on a heterogeneous and unpredictable hardware platform, including the best driver and plug and play around is nothing short of astonishing. Those with total control of their hardware and software platform aren't even able to match it.

With that in mind, I'm creating this thread for those who don't care for Windows 8 and are not using it but would like to, and those who use it, but are using it in spite of it's changes and/or shortcomings.

With Microsoft speedily working on Windows Blue and Windows 9, in addition to Windows Phone Updates and a major upgrade at year's end, what features or changes would you like to see added or removed from the Windows 8 Product line (Desktop OS, Windows Phone 8, Surface RT) that would make you love it? Many requests will be unrealistic, but let's hear it anyway.

Fanatics on either end of the spectrum please, just state what "you" want, or even that you're perfectly satisfied or dissatisfied with the way things are. Whether you're pro or anti Windows 8, no one cares to hear you judge other's wants, needs, and desires. Simply state your own, or comment productively on others'.

For me it's as Follows:

Windows Phone 8, Desktop OS, & Surface RT

- Continue optimizing performance across the board

- Release a Modern UI version of Zune that functions, exactly the same as the previous version of Zune with support for WP8 & Surface RT.

-Or, convert Windows Media Player Classic to the Modern UI keeping it's functionality and in-app search engine (avoid Modern UI Search in all applications and things. Produce it for RT as well.

-Or fix the Xbox Cloud ecosystem so that it will sync playlists and songs, or search and find all songs in synced playlists if they are stored locally. You must support users' existing libraries or this service is somewhat useless to most. And it must work, for everyone, all the time. Not half-ass work, completely work.

-Allow Xbox Video purchases to be played from Windows Phone.

-Include BT 4.0 and apt-X codec support in all three but particularly in Windows Phone. Many developers want to port their lifestyle apps and heart rate monitors but still Windows Phone OS does not support the complete range of BT profiles to allow this. apt-X allows CD quality sound over Bluetooth and is included in most Android phones and tablet.

-Forget ridiculous surveys. Be cool, and produce cool products that support cutting edge technologies first. Don't just try to look cool, or create cool commercials, be cool. Right now, it doesn't appear anyone at Microsoft is actually, cool, or even uses technology as a part of their lifestyle apart from working for Microsoft. Tip: Steve Ballmer is not, and cannot define, coolness. Find someone else.

Desktop OS & Surface

-Release more if not all Microsoft Studios XBLA games for Modern UI. So far only touch games have been released and look how that has turned out. Lode Runner is a PC classic that bombed on XBLA. MSS did a great remake and it would have been perfect for the Modern UI and Windows 8. Make it a core game and give it away even. Encourage all XBLA games to go Modern. This will be quick and effective. Help them. Shadow Complex on the Modern UI on a current desktop PC running Windows 8 ... think outside the box, but not waaaay out as in kludgy Modern UI Search. I remember the early days of Xbox Live. One game carried it until the library grew and it gained legitimacy. It was an XBLA game, tiny Geometry Wars by Bizarre Creations. Do not underestimate the power of games.

-Realize the impact and presence of desktop computing. It is a separate entity from the emerging mobile market, they enhance each other, not replace one another. One major difference, desktop users influence others. Turtleneck sweater with a tablet does not much (IMO).

-Produce a nano Wireless Xbox Controller adapter for PC. Gaming still drives technology. Make it for Windows 8 only if you like.

-Allow nested tiles on the Start Page

Desktop OS

-For systems with discrete graphics and modern CPUs, utilize the iGPU processors in Intel CPUs within Windows.

-Do something with Modern UI Search. First provide Unified Results similar to the Start Menu, then keep going. Allow in-place context menus on the desktop only.

-Create a great Modern UI file browser with thumbnail support and designed with being snapped to the desktop in mind. Allow drag and drop to the Desktop Environment.

-Modern UI App for File History with System Image support

-I do not need the Start Menu with Start8, and if you make changes to Modern UI Search, won't need that. But a GPO to go directly to desktop would accelerate adoption in the enterprise. I know you want to force people to use the Start Page. You can try that, give a GPO option in the Enterprise edition, or see slow adoption.

-Release Gears of War Judgment for PC, Windows 8 Only.

That really wasn't that much, or difficult. One more, above all, forget about cowtowing to shareholders for a moment, ask consumers who you want to buy your products, what they want, and how they want it to work.

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#2 HawkMan

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:42

Nested tiles, I don't see how that would work. But hard as I try, I cannot see any good way to implement it. Start screen took us away from the horribly nested start menu, why would they go back to that. Ad I think you misunderstand the purpose of the start screen, it replaces the pinned "favorite" apps on the start menu. It's not meant to be crammed full of every app and folder you have. That's why you have search and all programs for.

And why would enterprise pick up windows 8 faster if it went straight to desktop. When you start a computer. The first thing you need to do is start whatever program you're going to be working in. So it makes a lot more sense to start in the launcher instead of on the desktop and then have to click start to start your program.

I don't think a file browser as you know it will come, so etching like a file browser perhaps, but different. The classic folder and HDD saving paradigm is something they want to get away from for obvious reasons. Vista was supposed to bring that before the rewrite and scaling back. 7 brought much of that project back in the form of smart folders and libraries.

They went away from u infield search to a more logical and understandable search for regular users, this is not reverting. And frankly I think you'll find most people are happy to not have their program search infested with files and settings no the other ways around, clicking arrow down isn't going to kill anyone. As for the charms search allowing you to search any program from anywhere... Why not. All apps can also search from within the app either by simply starting to type or with a dedicated search butting, though that's discouraged,

#3 Dot Matrix

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:54

I, too, would love WMP in Modern UI form.

I personally think more services will be metro-died in due time, which will help streamline the OS.

#4 OP MorganX

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 23:14

>>Start screen took us away from the horribly nested start menu, why would they go back to that.<<

That is subjective. Try telling your HR department that nested folders are inefficient and horrible. That's just one tiny example.

>>Ad I think you misunderstand the purpose of the start screen, it replaces the pinned "favorite" apps on the start menu. It's not meant to be crammed full of every app and folder you have. That's why you have search and all programs for.<<

It replaces a seldom used feature of the Start Menu? Then we don't need it at all. What it's for is for tablets and Live tiles, and it's on the Desktop as a result. Search, horrible Modern UI search? Most people organize their own work better than search results. "Having" to search for frequently used items is a waste of time. Nested tiles and "search" don't have to be mutually exclusive.

>>And why would enterprise pick up windows 8 faster if it went straight to desktop. When you start a computer. The first thing you need to do is start whatever program you're going to be working in.<<

I'm guessing you don't work in an enterprise. See, if you change say where the light switch is, it costs money to tell everyone where that is. When you're talking thousands of users, that's money no one wants to spend. Having the option to bypass it would just eliminate that. In most enterprises, social media is blocked anyway, not much need for live tiles sucking down user productivity. When organizations have a need they can change the GPO for one or all.

>>So it makes a lot more sense to start in the launcher instead of on the desktop and then have to click start to start your program.<<

You wrongly assumed going to the desktop to get to the Start Menu. The only reason I would keep the Start Menu is the search is more efficient IMO. Apps are pinned to the Taskbar, or for enterprises with mostly web based apps, just launch IE and apps open in a tabbed browser. Not only that shortcuts to network locations are easily reached by right clicking on Explorer on taskbar. There is simply no way to create a scenario in which stopping at the Start Page is more productive in an enterprise at this time IMO. None. Furthermore you're going to have to move from Modern UI to Desktop Environment, more un-needed steps and minor as they may be.

>>The classic folder and HDD saving paradigm is something they want to get away from for obvious reasons. Vista was supposed to bring that before the rewrite and scaling back. 7 brought much of that project back in the form of smart folders and libraries.<<

You mean WinFS. Yeah, that was a little ambitious. Libraries are nice but still hierarchical. The backend is still a hierarchical file system. That's not going to change for long time. It would be nice, but that's a long way off. So until then, we must work with what is. So it's not classic because it is the current and foreseeable future. Sometimes the wheel don't need re-inventing. Long live the card catalog.

>>They went away from u infield search to a more logical and understandable search for regular users, this is not reverting. And frankly I think you'll find most people are happy to not have their program search infested with files and settings no the other ways around, clicking arrow down isn't going to kill anyone.<<

I'm not sure I'm following you. Start Menu search is unified but categorizes the results. Just instead of having to move your mouse halfway across and up the screen and click on multiple categories, it presents the results in the same area as the search input and presents all the results in a categorized, compact, easy to read list with results able to be immediately manipulated with in-place context menu actions. If many people are unaware that this is one of the many great design features of the Start Menu, that may explain why so many are confused as to why so many want it back. I have a 27" screen, you know how much candy colored meaningless icons come up on any search, and it's not nearly as accurate as Start Menu or Start8 search. I don't understand that to be honest. It should be the same. And why if you just click the Search Charm does it default to Apps when 90% of the time, most people will be searching files? I could go on forever on Modern UI Search.

Listen, I understand MS has made some controversial decisions to further their Tablet agenda, but vilifying the Start Menu just makes no sense. It took MS a long time and lots of research to simplify it and make it as productive as it is in a nice compact corner of the screen. The only reason it's gone is because it doesn't work for Tablets. I get that. But some of the stuff people make-up about how the Modern UI is more productive and the Start Menu was a waste of time, etc. flies in the face of reality. That's just not true. And the Modern UI doesn't come close to it's productivity, customizability, or usability EXCEPT on a tablet. That's why so many can't meet in the middle on these things.

I personally, don't need the Start Menu back. But Modern UI search is horrendous and inefficient and a big ol' waste of my time on a Desktop. That's the sole reason I paid $5 for Start8. I'll NEVER use Modern UI search as it exists in the current release. That's how much of a ridiculous waste of time it is to me. It doesn't even clear the search input on a new search.

Now you took a shot and my wants needs and desires for Windows 8, and I responded. Let's call it a draw and now, unless you think Windows 8 is Nirvana, what would you like to see in Windows 8 to make it better for you?

#5 Mike Loney

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 23:24

Windows, Linux, and any OS is an amazing engineering feet in my eyes. Figured I'd say something before someone uses this article to troll someone based on if they prefer OS A over OS B. I use both. They are operating systems. They do not care what advantages they have over the other one. I'm just amazed and lucky I was born into an era where virtually anything is possible. They are all innovators. However, I am not picking on this post. This is a needed ray of positivity on a negative internet. This post is pretty optimistic. Figure I'd extend the optimism. Yay for technology!

#6 OP MorganX

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 23:28

Windows, Linux, and any OS is an amazing engineering feet in my eyes. Figured I'd say something before someone uses this article to troll someone based on if they prefer OS A over OS B. I use both. They are operating systems. They do not care what advantages they have over the other one. I'm just amazed and lucky I was born into an era where virtually anything is possible. They are all innovators. However, I am not picking on this post. This is a needed ray of positivity on a negative internet. This post is pretty optimistic. Figure I'd extend the optimism. Yay for technology!


Agreed and appreciated :D

#7 bigmehdi

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 23:32

I'd just want Microsoft to better integrate better the "metro" apps, with regular apps, so that with don't have two separate working mode.
The "metro" apps, could be launched with regular icons from the desktop, and we could once for all ditch that nasty start screen (it's ugly, and childish).
Also Microsoft should allows be a more "natural" upgrade path, for developer that want to give to their apps some touch based abilities.
I might be wrong, but it seems that all apps have to be completely re-programmed in order to support touch.
Also, Ideally, you wouldn't need to download every touch based apps from the store.

#8 1941

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 23:36

Do completely away the the fugly metro look.

#9 rfirth

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 23:46

I might be wrong, but it seems that all apps have to be completely re-programmed in order to support touch.


Completely wrong.

#10 Kaze23

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 00:00

Do completely away the the fugly metro look.


Then how do you propose the OS evolves when it comes to touch-based devices?

#11 HawkMan

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:23

>>Start screen took us away from the horribly nested start menu, why would they go back to that.<<

That is subjective. Try telling your HR department that nested folders are inefficient and horrible. That's just one tiny example.

>>Ad I think you misunderstand the purpose of the start screen, it replaces the pinned "favorite" apps on the start menu. It's not meant to be crammed full of every app and folder you have. That's why you have search and all programs for.<<

It replaces a seldom used feature of the Start Menu? Then we don't need it at all. What it's for is for tablets and Live tiles, and it's on the Desktop as a result. Search, horrible Modern UI search? Most people organize their own work better than search results. "Having" to search for frequently used items is a waste of time. Nested tiles and "search" don't have to be mutually exclusive.

>>And why would enterprise pick up windows 8 faster if it went straight to desktop. When you start a computer. The first thing you need to do is start whatever program you're going to be working in.<<

I'm guessing you don't work in an enterprise. See, if you change say where the light switch is, it costs money to tell everyone where that is. When you're talking thousands of users, that's money no one wants to spend. Having the option to bypass it would just eliminate that. In most enterprises, social media is blocked anyway, not much need for live tiles sucking down user productivity. When organizations have a need they can change the GPO for one or all.

>>So it makes a lot more sense to start in the launcher instead of on the desktop and then have to click start to start your program.<<

You wrongly assumed going to the desktop to get to the Start Menu. The only reason I would keep the Start Menu is the search is more efficient IMO. Apps are pinned to the Taskbar, or for enterprises with mostly web based apps, just launch IE and apps open in a tabbed browser. Not only that shortcuts to network locations are easily reached by right clicking on Explorer on taskbar. There is simply no way to create a scenario in which stopping at the Start Page is more productive in an enterprise at this time IMO. None. Furthermore you're going to have to move from Modern UI to Desktop Environment, more un-needed steps and minor as they may be.

>>The classic folder and HDD saving paradigm is something they want to get away from for obvious reasons. Vista was supposed to bring that before the rewrite and scaling back. 7 brought much of that project back in the form of smart folders and libraries.<<

You mean WinFS. Yeah, that was a little ambitious. Libraries are nice but still hierarchical. The backend is still a hierarchical file system. That's not going to change for long time. It would be nice, but that's a long way off. So until then, we must work with what is. So it's not classic because it is the current and foreseeable future. Sometimes the wheel don't need re-inventing. Long live the card catalog.

>>They went away from u infield search to a more logical and understandable search for regular users, this is not reverting. And frankly I think you'll find most people are happy to not have their program search infested with files and settings no the other ways around, clicking arrow down isn't going to kill anyone.<<

I'm not sure I'm following you. Start Menu search is unified but categorizes the results. Just instead of having to move your mouse halfway across and up the screen and click on multiple categories, it presents the results in the same area as the search input and presents all the results in a categorized, compact, easy to read list with results able to be immediately manipulated with in-place context menu actions. If many people are unaware that this is one of the many great design features of the Start Menu, that may explain why so many are confused as to why so many want it back. I have a 27" screen, you know how much candy colored meaningless icons come up on any search, and it's not nearly as accurate as Start Menu or Start8 search. I don't understand that to be honest. It should be the same. And why if you just click the Search Charm does it default to Apps when 90% of the time, most people will be searching files? I could go on forever on Modern UI Search.

Listen, I understand MS has made some controversial decisions to further their Tablet agenda, but vilifying the Start Menu just makes no sense. It took MS a long time and lots of research to simplify it and make it as productive as it is in a nice compact corner of the screen. The only reason it's gone is because it doesn't work for Tablets. I get that. But some of the stuff people make-up about how the Modern UI is more productive and the Start Menu was a waste of time, etc. flies in the face of reality. That's just not true. And the Modern UI doesn't come close to it's productivity, customizability, or usability EXCEPT on a tablet. That's why so many can't meet in the middle on these things.

I personally, don't need the Start Menu back. But Modern UI search is horrendous and inefficient and a big ol' waste of my time on a Desktop. That's the sole reason I paid $5 for Start8. I'll NEVER use Modern UI search as it exists in the current release. That's how much of a ridiculous waste of time it is to me. It doesn't even clear the search input on a new search.

Now you took a shot and my wants needs and desires for Windows 8, and I responded. Let's call it a draw and now, unless you think Windows 8 is Nirvana, what would you like to see in Windows 8 to make it better for you?


1. what does your HR dep have to do with the start menu layout. I doubt they use enough apps per day for it to make any sense anyway, especially with the start screen ability to have 50+ apps visible on screen at once, with big understandable icons and labels, sorted into custom and labeled groups.

2. Seldom used feature ? and you accuse other of not working in enterprise. while I don't right now I have done, and I have more contact with more clients today than any single enterprise tech support. and both personal experience and more importantly, MS own very extensive user metrics say that, hardly ANYONE used the nested start menu, however, everyone used the pinned taskbar and start menu apps. it was THE most used feature of the start menu, and it is WHY they made the start screen. and even so it's still just as fast to get to all apps as ever before.

3. ummm... IE icon on the start screen, oh hey, look we have our exchange calendar right next to the IE icon as well. so not only can I get right to the web apps directly, I also immediately upon start up see when my first meeting of the day is. how extremely useful. and you can pin IE web apps if you want the web apps to appear as real actual separate apps. since we all know the majority of enterprise users use their computer for work only and think of it as a work tool. These kind of people as well as anyone over 50(the majority of enterprise users) do NOT understand the concept of tabs at all, tabs mess up their mind and make them confused to hell, it's like their kryptonite. "what the hell is happening here, why isn't it losing, we is it asking this, why is there these labels, why doesn't it open the page I had here when I click this window.... WHY!!!!" after the 50th time explaining you just kinda give up.

4. WinFS also had a regular file system in the bottom, it wasn't a file system. it was a database system on top of the filesystem, like the libraries today. the difference was it covered the whole OS from the start. and a regular user today, doesn't really need to know there's a hierarchical file system under the libraries they never need to see that, even less so with office 2013. They are gradually working back to where WinFS was, but instead of everything at once, they do it a little at a time.

5. The start menu search results where nowhere near as glorious as you make it out. I mean yeah it was great, it was better than anything else at the time. But the new search is better, especially for regular users. and especially when supporting. When I help someone over the phone, I can now tell them to search for something, and just tell them to arrow down and I KNOW they are in settings search. instead of hoping they click on the right tool and not something else.


As for what I want to see. I want the start screen to get the WP8 treatment, to be able to have old windows apps in small squares with just the big icon filling the whole square. being able to natively create custom tiles for apps would be great, but not happening. Separate IE metro and IE desktop so there is a shortcut for both on the start page without knowing about iexplore.exe to make it. In app/Separate app volume controls for metro/modern apps. give me back the ability to manage wireless networks and delete them, without the wireless network in question being nearby. finish porting the control panel to Metro. and make the devices page in the settings/contorl panel page actually replace the old "printers and devices" page functionally.

#12 Ian William

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:48

5. The start menu search results where nowhere near as glorious as you make it out. I mean yeah it was great, it was better than anything else at the time. But the new search is better, especially for regular users. and especially when supporting. When I help someone over the phone, I can now tell them to search for something, and just tell them to arrow down and I KNOW they are in settings search. instead of hoping they click on the right tool and not something else.


If I may be so bold as to give my opinion, I think that's he's absolutely right about the Start menu unified search results.
All I have to do is press the Windows key and start typing. I can search for documents, programs, settings, etcetera simultaneously. The Start screen forces me to search in one category at a time... which is just ridiculous.

Suppose I write Internet. The default setting for the Start screen, 'Apps', gives me Internet Explorer, but not something like Internet Options... The Start menu would give me both (and more) at once, without the need to select a category before or after already performing a search.

#13 slumdogtrillionaire

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:55

resolution to what this thread talks about http://www.neowin.ne...n7/page__st__60
secondly optional install for metro UI

#14 LUTZIFER

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:16

Then how do you propose the OS evolves when it comes to touch-based devices?

The same way every other OS works on touchscreen. There's been tablets with Win 7 on them for a long time, they work just fine without tiles and modern UI.


#15 HawkMan

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:44

If I may be so bold as to give my opinion, I think that's he's absolutely right about the Start menu unified search results.
All I have to do is press the Windows key and start typing. I can search for documents, programs, settings, etcetera simultaneously. The Start screen forces me to search in one category at a time... which is just ridiculous.

Suppose I write Internet. The default setting for the Start screen, 'Apps', gives me Internet Explorer, but not something like Internet Options... The Start menu would give me both (and more) at once, without the need to select a category before or after already performing a search.


Actually you search for all three at once, it just lists one of the categories at once. And it lists the numbers of results for each.

the thing is 90% of the time people want to search for an app on their computer. and then they get documents and settings polluting their search results. NEVER do you search for both an app, a setting and a file at the same time. so it doesn't make sense to mix them up in one messy list, especially not when it's one of those search terms that happens to be in a bajillion different files.

and again, all it takes is to hit the down arrow key.

The same way every other OS works on touchscreen. There's been tablets with Win 7 on them for a long time, they work just fine without tiles and modern UI.


No they don't. that's why they didn't sell. the only thing that sold was tablet PC's which was a work/artist tool, and even they sold very little, but that's because they had a niche market as well. the new pro tablets kinda mixes this niche market with the prop tablet user market and the ultrabook user market.