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Windows, the OS itself, is in my opinion, one of the greatest engineering feats of our time. To produce a stable, productive OS on a heterogeneous and unpredictable hardware platform, including the best driver and plug and play around is nothing short of astonishing. Those with total control of their hardware and software platform aren't even able to match it.

With that in mind, I'm creating this thread for those who don't care for Windows 8 and are not using it but would like to, and those who use it, but are using it in spite of it's changes and/or shortcomings.

With Microsoft speedily working on Windows Blue and Windows 9, in addition to Windows Phone Updates and a major upgrade at year's end, what features or changes would you like to see added or removed from the Windows 8 Product line (Desktop OS, Windows Phone 8, Surface RT) that would make you love it? Many requests will be unrealistic, but let's hear it anyway.

Fanatics on either end of the spectrum please, just state what "you" want, or even that you're perfectly satisfied or dissatisfied with the way things are. Whether you're pro or anti Windows 8, no one cares to hear you judge other's wants, needs, and desires. Simply state your own, or comment productively on others'.

For me it's as Follows:

Windows Phone 8, Desktop OS, & Surface RT

- Continue optimizing performance across the board

- Release a Modern UI version of Zune that functions, exactly the same as the previous version of Zune with support for WP8 & Surface RT.

-Or, convert Windows Media Player Classic to the Modern UI keeping it's functionality and in-app search engine (avoid Modern UI Search in all applications and things. Produce it for RT as well.

-Or fix the Xbox Cloud ecosystem so that it will sync playlists and songs, or search and find all songs in synced playlists if they are stored locally. You must support users' existing libraries or this service is somewhat useless to most. And it must work, for everyone, all the time. Not half-ass work, completely work.

-Allow Xbox Video purchases to be played from Windows Phone.

-Include BT 4.0 and apt-X codec support in all three but particularly in Windows Phone. Many developers want to port their lifestyle apps and heart rate monitors but still Windows Phone OS does not support the complete range of BT profiles to allow this. apt-X allows CD quality sound over Bluetooth and is included in most Android phones and tablet.

-Forget ridiculous surveys. Be cool, and produce cool products that support cutting edge technologies first. Don't just try to look cool, or create cool commercials, be cool. Right now, it doesn't appear anyone at Microsoft is actually, cool, or even uses technology as a part of their lifestyle apart from working for Microsoft. Tip: Steve Ballmer is not, and cannot define, coolness. Find someone else.

Desktop OS & Surface

-Release more if not all Microsoft Studios XBLA games for Modern UI. So far only touch games have been released and look how that has turned out. Lode Runner is a PC classic that bombed on XBLA. MSS did a great remake and it would have been perfect for the Modern UI and Windows 8. Make it a core game and give it away even. Encourage all XBLA games to go Modern. This will be quick and effective. Help them. Shadow Complex on the Modern UI on a current desktop PC running Windows 8 ... think outside the box, but not waaaay out as in kludgy Modern UI Search. I remember the early days of Xbox Live. One game carried it until the library grew and it gained legitimacy. It was an XBLA game, tiny Geometry Wars by Bizarre Creations. Do not underestimate the power of games.

-Realize the impact and presence of desktop computing. It is a separate entity from the emerging mobile market, they enhance each other, not replace one another. One major difference, desktop users influence others. Turtleneck sweater with a tablet does not much (IMO).

-Produce a nano Wireless Xbox Controller adapter for PC. Gaming still drives technology. Make it for Windows 8 only if you like.

-Allow nested tiles on the Start Page

Desktop OS

-For systems with discrete graphics and modern CPUs, utilize the iGPU processors in Intel CPUs within Windows.

-Do something with Modern UI Search. First provide Unified Results similar to the Start Menu, then keep going. Allow in-place context menus on the desktop only.

-Create a great Modern UI file browser with thumbnail support and designed with being snapped to the desktop in mind. Allow drag and drop to the Desktop Environment.

-Modern UI App for File History with System Image support

-I do not need the Start Menu with Start8, and if you make changes to Modern UI Search, won't need that. But a GPO to go directly to desktop would accelerate adoption in the enterprise. I know you want to force people to use the Start Page. You can try that, give a GPO option in the Enterprise edition, or see slow adoption.

-Release Gears of War Judgment for PC, Windows 8 Only.

That really wasn't that much, or difficult. One more, above all, forget about cowtowing to shareholders for a moment, ask consumers who you want to buy your products, what they want, and how they want it to work.

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Nested tiles, I don't see how that would work. But hard as I try, I cannot see any good way to implement it. Start screen took us away from the horribly nested start menu, why would they go back to that. Ad I think you misunderstand the purpose of the start screen, it replaces the pinned "favorite" apps on the start menu. It's not meant to be crammed full of every app and folder you have. That's why you have search and all programs for.

And why would enterprise pick up windows 8 faster if it went straight to desktop. When you start a computer. The first thing you need to do is start whatever program you're going to be working in. So it makes a lot more sense to start in the launcher instead of on the desktop and then have to click start to start your program.

I don't think a file browser as you know it will come, so etching like a file browser perhaps, but different. The classic folder and HDD saving paradigm is something they want to get away from for obvious reasons. Vista was supposed to bring that before the rewrite and scaling back. 7 brought much of that project back in the form of smart folders and libraries.

They went away from u infield search to a more logical and understandable search for regular users, this is not reverting. And frankly I think you'll find most people are happy to not have their program search infested with files and settings no the other ways around, clicking arrow down isn't going to kill anyone. As for the charms search allowing you to search any program from anywhere... Why not. All apps can also search from within the app either by simply starting to type or with a dedicated search butting, though that's discouraged,

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I, too, would love WMP in Modern UI form.

I personally think more services will be metro-died in due time, which will help streamline the OS.

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>>Start screen took us away from the horribly nested start menu, why would they go back to that.<<

That is subjective. Try telling your HR department that nested folders are inefficient and horrible. That's just one tiny example.

>>Ad I think you misunderstand the purpose of the start screen, it replaces the pinned "favorite" apps on the start menu. It's not meant to be crammed full of every app and folder you have. That's why you have search and all programs for.<<

It replaces a seldom used feature of the Start Menu? Then we don't need it at all. What it's for is for tablets and Live tiles, and it's on the Desktop as a result. Search, horrible Modern UI search? Most people organize their own work better than search results. "Having" to search for frequently used items is a waste of time. Nested tiles and "search" don't have to be mutually exclusive.

>>And why would enterprise pick up windows 8 faster if it went straight to desktop. When you start a computer. The first thing you need to do is start whatever program you're going to be working in.<<

I'm guessing you don't work in an enterprise. See, if you change say where the light switch is, it costs money to tell everyone where that is. When you're talking thousands of users, that's money no one wants to spend. Having the option to bypass it would just eliminate that. In most enterprises, social media is blocked anyway, not much need for live tiles sucking down user productivity. When organizations have a need they can change the GPO for one or all.

>>So it makes a lot more sense to start in the launcher instead of on the desktop and then have to click start to start your program.<<

You wrongly assumed going to the desktop to get to the Start Menu. The only reason I would keep the Start Menu is the search is more efficient IMO. Apps are pinned to the Taskbar, or for enterprises with mostly web based apps, just launch IE and apps open in a tabbed browser. Not only that shortcuts to network locations are easily reached by right clicking on Explorer on taskbar. There is simply no way to create a scenario in which stopping at the Start Page is more productive in an enterprise at this time IMO. None. Furthermore you're going to have to move from Modern UI to Desktop Environment, more un-needed steps and minor as they may be.

>>The classic folder and HDD saving paradigm is something they want to get away from for obvious reasons. Vista was supposed to bring that before the rewrite and scaling back. 7 brought much of that project back in the form of smart folders and libraries.<<

You mean WinFS. Yeah, that was a little ambitious. Libraries are nice but still hierarchical. The backend is still a hierarchical file system. That's not going to change for long time. It would be nice, but that's a long way off. So until then, we must work with what is. So it's not classic because it is the current and foreseeable future. Sometimes the wheel don't need re-inventing. Long live the card catalog.

>>They went away from u infield search to a more logical and understandable search for regular users, this is not reverting. And frankly I think you'll find most people are happy to not have their program search infested with files and settings no the other ways around, clicking arrow down isn't going to kill anyone.<<

I'm not sure I'm following you. Start Menu search is unified but categorizes the results. Just instead of having to move your mouse halfway across and up the screen and click on multiple categories, it presents the results in the same area as the search input and presents all the results in a categorized, compact, easy to read list with results able to be immediately manipulated with in-place context menu actions. If many people are unaware that this is one of the many great design features of the Start Menu, that may explain why so many are confused as to why so many want it back. I have a 27" screen, you know how much candy colored meaningless icons come up on any search, and it's not nearly as accurate as Start Menu or Start8 search. I don't understand that to be honest. It should be the same. And why if you just click the Search Charm does it default to Apps when 90% of the time, most people will be searching files? I could go on forever on Modern UI Search.

Listen, I understand MS has made some controversial decisions to further their Tablet agenda, but vilifying the Start Menu just makes no sense. It took MS a long time and lots of research to simplify it and make it as productive as it is in a nice compact corner of the screen. The only reason it's gone is because it doesn't work for Tablets. I get that. But some of the stuff people make-up about how the Modern UI is more productive and the Start Menu was a waste of time, etc. flies in the face of reality. That's just not true. And the Modern UI doesn't come close to it's productivity, customizability, or usability EXCEPT on a tablet. That's why so many can't meet in the middle on these things.

I personally, don't need the Start Menu back. But Modern UI search is horrendous and inefficient and a big ol' waste of my time on a Desktop. That's the sole reason I paid $5 for Start8. I'll NEVER use Modern UI search as it exists in the current release. That's how much of a ridiculous waste of time it is to me. It doesn't even clear the search input on a new search.

Now you took a shot and my wants needs and desires for Windows 8, and I responded. Let's call it a draw and now, unless you think Windows 8 is Nirvana, what would you like to see in Windows 8 to make it better for you?

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Windows, Linux, and any OS is an amazing engineering feet in my eyes. Figured I'd say something before someone uses this article to troll someone based on if they prefer OS A over OS B. I use both. They are operating systems. They do not care what advantages they have over the other one. I'm just amazed and lucky I was born into an era where virtually anything is possible. They are all innovators. However, I am not picking on this post. This is a needed ray of positivity on a negative internet. This post is pretty optimistic. Figure I'd extend the optimism. Yay for technology!

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Windows, Linux, and any OS is an amazing engineering feet in my eyes. Figured I'd say something before someone uses this article to troll someone based on if they prefer OS A over OS B. I use both. They are operating systems. They do not care what advantages they have over the other one. I'm just amazed and lucky I was born into an era where virtually anything is possible. They are all innovators. However, I am not picking on this post. This is a needed ray of positivity on a negative internet. This post is pretty optimistic. Figure I'd extend the optimism. Yay for technology!

Agreed and appreciated :D

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I'd just want Microsoft to better integrate better the "metro" apps, with regular apps, so that with don't have two separate working mode.

The "metro" apps, could be launched with regular icons from the desktop, and we could once for all ditch that nasty start screen (it's ugly, and childish).

Also Microsoft should allows be a more "natural" upgrade path, for developer that want to give to their apps some touch based abilities.

I might be wrong, but it seems that all apps have to be completely re-programmed in order to support touch.

Also, Ideally, you wouldn't need to download every touch based apps from the store.

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Posted

Do completely away the the fugly metro look.

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Posted

I might be wrong, but it seems that all apps have to be completely re-programmed in order to support touch.

Completely wrong.

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Do completely away the the fugly metro look.

Then how do you propose the OS evolves when it comes to touch-based devices?

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>>Start screen took us away from the horribly nested start menu, why would they go back to that.<<

That is subjective. Try telling your HR department that nested folders are inefficient and horrible. That's just one tiny example.

>>Ad I think you misunderstand the purpose of the start screen, it replaces the pinned "favorite" apps on the start menu. It's not meant to be crammed full of every app and folder you have. That's why you have search and all programs for.<<

It replaces a seldom used feature of the Start Menu? Then we don't need it at all. What it's for is for tablets and Live tiles, and it's on the Desktop as a result. Search, horrible Modern UI search? Most people organize their own work better than search results. "Having" to search for frequently used items is a waste of time. Nested tiles and "search" don't have to be mutually exclusive.

>>And why would enterprise pick up windows 8 faster if it went straight to desktop. When you start a computer. The first thing you need to do is start whatever program you're going to be working in.<<

I'm guessing you don't work in an enterprise. See, if you change say where the light switch is, it costs money to tell everyone where that is. When you're talking thousands of users, that's money no one wants to spend. Having the option to bypass it would just eliminate that. In most enterprises, social media is blocked anyway, not much need for live tiles sucking down user productivity. When organizations have a need they can change the GPO for one or all.

>>So it makes a lot more sense to start in the launcher instead of on the desktop and then have to click start to start your program.<<

You wrongly assumed going to the desktop to get to the Start Menu. The only reason I would keep the Start Menu is the search is more efficient IMO. Apps are pinned to the Taskbar, or for enterprises with mostly web based apps, just launch IE and apps open in a tabbed browser. Not only that shortcuts to network locations are easily reached by right clicking on Explorer on taskbar. There is simply no way to create a scenario in which stopping at the Start Page is more productive in an enterprise at this time IMO. None. Furthermore you're going to have to move from Modern UI to Desktop Environment, more un-needed steps and minor as they may be.

>>The classic folder and HDD saving paradigm is something they want to get away from for obvious reasons. Vista was supposed to bring that before the rewrite and scaling back. 7 brought much of that project back in the form of smart folders and libraries.<<

You mean WinFS. Yeah, that was a little ambitious. Libraries are nice but still hierarchical. The backend is still a hierarchical file system. That's not going to change for long time. It would be nice, but that's a long way off. So until then, we must work with what is. So it's not classic because it is the current and foreseeable future. Sometimes the wheel don't need re-inventing. Long live the card catalog.

>>They went away from u infield search to a more logical and understandable search for regular users, this is not reverting. And frankly I think you'll find most people are happy to not have their program search infested with files and settings no the other ways around, clicking arrow down isn't going to kill anyone.<<

I'm not sure I'm following you. Start Menu search is unified but categorizes the results. Just instead of having to move your mouse halfway across and up the screen and click on multiple categories, it presents the results in the same area as the search input and presents all the results in a categorized, compact, easy to read list with results able to be immediately manipulated with in-place context menu actions. If many people are unaware that this is one of the many great design features of the Start Menu, that may explain why so many are confused as to why so many want it back. I have a 27" screen, you know how much candy colored meaningless icons come up on any search, and it's not nearly as accurate as Start Menu or Start8 search. I don't understand that to be honest. It should be the same. And why if you just click the Search Charm does it default to Apps when 90% of the time, most people will be searching files? I could go on forever on Modern UI Search.

Listen, I understand MS has made some controversial decisions to further their Tablet agenda, but vilifying the Start Menu just makes no sense. It took MS a long time and lots of research to simplify it and make it as productive as it is in a nice compact corner of the screen. The only reason it's gone is because it doesn't work for Tablets. I get that. But some of the stuff people make-up about how the Modern UI is more productive and the Start Menu was a waste of time, etc. flies in the face of reality. That's just not true. And the Modern UI doesn't come close to it's productivity, customizability, or usability EXCEPT on a tablet. That's why so many can't meet in the middle on these things.

I personally, don't need the Start Menu back. But Modern UI search is horrendous and inefficient and a big ol' waste of my time on a Desktop. That's the sole reason I paid $5 for Start8. I'll NEVER use Modern UI search as it exists in the current release. That's how much of a ridiculous waste of time it is to me. It doesn't even clear the search input on a new search.

Now you took a shot and my wants needs and desires for Windows 8, and I responded. Let's call it a draw and now, unless you think Windows 8 is Nirvana, what would you like to see in Windows 8 to make it better for you?

1. what does your HR dep have to do with the start menu layout. I doubt they use enough apps per day for it to make any sense anyway, especially with the start screen ability to have 50+ apps visible on screen at once, with big understandable icons and labels, sorted into custom and labeled groups.

2. Seldom used feature ? and you accuse other of not working in enterprise. while I don't right now I have done, and I have more contact with more clients today than any single enterprise tech support. and both personal experience and more importantly, MS own very extensive user metrics say that, hardly ANYONE used the nested start menu, however, everyone used the pinned taskbar and start menu apps. it was THE most used feature of the start menu, and it is WHY they made the start screen. and even so it's still just as fast to get to all apps as ever before.

3. ummm... IE icon on the start screen, oh hey, look we have our exchange calendar right next to the IE icon as well. so not only can I get right to the web apps directly, I also immediately upon start up see when my first meeting of the day is. how extremely useful. and you can pin IE web apps if you want the web apps to appear as real actual separate apps. since we all know the majority of enterprise users use their computer for work only and think of it as a work tool. These kind of people as well as anyone over 50(the majority of enterprise users) do NOT understand the concept of tabs at all, tabs mess up their mind and make them confused to hell, it's like their kryptonite. "what the hell is happening here, why isn't it losing, we is it asking this, why is there these labels, why doesn't it open the page I had here when I click this window.... WHY!!!!" after the 50th time explaining you just kinda give up.

4. WinFS also had a regular file system in the bottom, it wasn't a file system. it was a database system on top of the filesystem, like the libraries today. the difference was it covered the whole OS from the start. and a regular user today, doesn't really need to know there's a hierarchical file system under the libraries they never need to see that, even less so with office 2013. They are gradually working back to where WinFS was, but instead of everything at once, they do it a little at a time.

5. The start menu search results where nowhere near as glorious as you make it out. I mean yeah it was great, it was better than anything else at the time. But the new search is better, especially for regular users. and especially when supporting. When I help someone over the phone, I can now tell them to search for something, and just tell them to arrow down and I KNOW they are in settings search. instead of hoping they click on the right tool and not something else.

As for what I want to see. I want the start screen to get the WP8 treatment, to be able to have old windows apps in small squares with just the big icon filling the whole square. being able to natively create custom tiles for apps would be great, but not happening. Separate IE metro and IE desktop so there is a shortcut for both on the start page without knowing about iexplore.exe to make it. In app/Separate app volume controls for metro/modern apps. give me back the ability to manage wireless networks and delete them, without the wireless network in question being nearby. finish porting the control panel to Metro. and make the devices page in the settings/contorl panel page actually replace the old "printers and devices" page functionally.

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5. The start menu search results where nowhere near as glorious as you make it out. I mean yeah it was great, it was better than anything else at the time. But the new search is better, especially for regular users. and especially when supporting. When I help someone over the phone, I can now tell them to search for something, and just tell them to arrow down and I KNOW they are in settings search. instead of hoping they click on the right tool and not something else.

If I may be so bold as to give my opinion, I think that's he's absolutely right about the Start menu unified search results.

All I have to do is press the Windows key and start typing. I can search for documents, programs, settings, etcetera simultaneously. The Start screen forces me to search in one category at a time... which is just ridiculous.

Suppose I write Internet. The default setting for the Start screen, 'Apps', gives me Internet Explorer, but not something like Internet Options... The Start menu would give me both (and more) at once, without the need to select a category before or after already performing a search.

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Posted

resolution to what this thread talks about

secondly optional install for metro UI

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Then how do you propose the OS evolves when it comes to touch-based devices?

The same way every other OS works on touchscreen. There's been tablets with Win 7 on them for a long time, they work just fine without tiles and modern UI.

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If I may be so bold as to give my opinion, I think that's he's absolutely right about the Start menu unified search results.

All I have to do is press the Windows key and start typing. I can search for documents, programs, settings, etcetera simultaneously. The Start screen forces me to search in one category at a time... which is just ridiculous.

Suppose I write Internet. The default setting for the Start screen, 'Apps', gives me Internet Explorer, but not something like Internet Options... The Start menu would give me both (and more) at once, without the need to select a category before or after already performing a search.

Actually you search for all three at once, it just lists one of the categories at once. And it lists the numbers of results for each.

the thing is 90% of the time people want to search for an app on their computer. and then they get documents and settings polluting their search results. NEVER do you search for both an app, a setting and a file at the same time. so it doesn't make sense to mix them up in one messy list, especially not when it's one of those search terms that happens to be in a bajillion different files.

and again, all it takes is to hit the down arrow key.

The same way every other OS works on touchscreen. There's been tablets with Win 7 on them for a long time, they work just fine without tiles and modern UI.

No they don't. that's why they didn't sell. the only thing that sold was tablet PC's which was a work/artist tool, and even they sold very little, but that's because they had a niche market as well. the new pro tablets kinda mixes this niche market with the prop tablet user market and the ultrabook user market.

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<snipped>

In what way is that Trash, Microsoft Windows is one of the most impressive software engineering feats of our time. I think i even read it is the most complex and the has the largest source code base in the world.

I think it's incredible and it was something i remarking to friends just the other day. Ive been using Windows since 1, the Win9x line done a lot to bring a desktop on every desk but they were very unreliable. Fast forward to today and it is one of the most reliable OS's around, ive yet to see it crash through a random act, it's usually due to heat or bad hardware. To think that this OS can work on the billions of combinations of hardware is incredible, your motherboard alone as a vast range of technologies, sound card, network, SATA controllers, PCIe controller etc.. thats before you've plugged in a HDD, CPU, RAM etc..

Does this mean that others can't do the same, no, Linux is reliable on a vast variety of hardware. Mac OSX is a different beast due to the vertical stack of how it's placed, but it's not hard to imagine that it could be the same, however because other OS's can do the same doesn't mean it's any less incredible.

I primarily use a Mac, they work well around how i expect to work so it's a personal opinion, however i use Windows at work and i have laptops and desktops at home using Windows. I use Linux more in servers but have tinkered with it on the desktop.

For me Windows 8 was better when i ignored metro on the desktop. I only use the weather app and train apps in metro as gadgets/widgets, i.e. i don't run them i just use the live tile side of it. As soon as i went down this way of think Windows 8 became by default desktops as my workflow worked.

Windows 8 has incredible performance enhancements and the reduce to idle mentality has meant big power savings, i have an old MSI U135DX netbooks, i installed an SSD 2GB RAM and Windows 8, i easily get 5 - 6 hours and the machine just flies along, something i find really incredible.

For me i would do something with the search, i find it slower than spotlight on the Mac (at indexing), so doing a search can sometimes lead to missing files as they haven't been indexed. Also i don't like the way the UI is handled, it's quite a effort, in that you perform a search and the results are displayed but there are no filters, it would have been nice if some options like, filter by all overs over 1MB, filter by this kind of document. I could type it but having it the UI would make more sense.

I would include an option to go straight to the desktop instead of straight to metro, i can understand this works for mobile devices however for desktops and laptops it doesn't work for me and would like the option.

I would have an option to change the hot areas of the screen, i really don't like the metro switcher top left as it's how i am used to closing windows application (double clicking the top left), i would also like to change the charms hot areas as well. ]

I would love Microsoft to implement the Mac's Expose feature, ive tried the third party stuff but i find it doesn't perform the same.

Generally the biggest problem with Windows 8 is the lack of choice, when transitioning away from one technology or one way of working Microsoft usually does a good of allowing people to migrate when they are ready, for example the start menu, the classic menu was there for a long time for people who liked it. I understand Microsoft wanting to push metro but on desktops and laptops they should have provided a choice, if people wanted the start menu then give it to them, warn them by Win9/10 it's going but at least have one release where people could switch between them.

In the whole regard of the Mobile UI on a desktop im afraid i still agree with the apple way which is to have one UI for desktops and one UI for mobile devices. I don't like touch on desktops and laptops as i don't think they work, i think touch is really a slate/tablet and mobile phone device type interface however this is my opinion and could easily be wrong.

However after those comments i still like Windows 8 a lot, i really like the new flat UI for the explorer shell, i think it looks very modern. I love the performance increases and the increased battery and have been recommending it to friends and family because of these benefits.

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The same way every other OS works on touchscreen. There's been tablets with Win 7 on them for a long time, they work just fine without tiles and modern UI.

iPad sales say you are wrong.

For me Windows 8 was better when i ignored metro on the desktop. I only use the weather app and train apps in metro as gadgets/widgets, i.e. i don't run them i just use the live tile side of it. As soon as i went down this way of think Windows 8 became by default desktops as my workflow worked.

This, a billion times. Windows 8 is fine on desktop if you don't worry too much about Metro apps. Unlike most people worrying about "enterprise" here, I actually work in one. We make enterprise software and we are a decent sized multi-national on our own. Our IT finished rolling out Windows 7 very recently (i.e. Windows 7 is default OS since late 2010 but it took two more years to get everyone on board) and they have already started a Windows 8 pilot (I am in!). Windows 8 works just fine in my dev. environment, including multi-monitor setups like I have at work.

Is it perfect? obviously not but it is certainly not as bad as most nay-sayers are portraying here.

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I think they could of incorporated the new start screen into the desktop interface itself. After all, all you do is fill it with pointless icons and slap a desktop image behind, which you can do with the start screen anyway. Then there should be the option to make the tiles smaller like on WP, for the people who don't use touch.

It's just off putting for me having an overlay as a start menu.

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I would have different expectations managing the enterprise and end-users for a "technology" company than say a local government or manufacturing plant, or any company dealing with customers and having no time to fiddle with the UI. I would expect a "technology" company to be able to deal with Linux on the desktop.

No one is supposed to be arguing. I could go all day arguing your made up stuff about the Start Menu and making decisions of Microsoft's self-serving research that does not mirror reality for millions no matter how many times you quote it. You actually believe 90% of the time people are searching for Programs. I can't even take much you say seriously after that. Microsoft could spend a billion dollars on research that says that and it still won't be reality.

Zealots on both sides just can't help themselves and it only takes 2.

I think you're confusing two meaning of the word argument and taking it to mean the more excessive one, while in this instance it means an argument in a discussion. Which is what a forum is for. If you didn't want arguments for or against your post, you should have posted in on a webpage with no comment ability, not on a forum.

As for the search. Yes when pele search on the start menu or screen, nine out of ten times they're searching for a program. Documents most people actually either know where is and open through the explorer or they open word or similar first and open it from there. And you don't search for settings very often, a least not regular users. S yeah, the vast majority of times you're searching, you're searching for apps.

As for MS metrics. It's based on the usage of millions and millions of users. MS don't make up is, as it's not in their interest, it's in their interest to make the OS for the users. That means using the data from their usage metrics.

And we're not talking about research here. We're talking about the usage metrics from millions and millions of actual windows computers of users who have opted to report their usage back to MS to help them improve the OS for future releases. I guess you answered no to that... Well to bad, then your usage doesn't get counted, and because you and all the self proclaimed "pro" users said no to this, you ge to use windows like all the regular users prefer to.

But now you're doing the same thing as the other guy, your throwing ad hominems at me and saying "I won't listen to you because I can't counter your arguments and I don't like them". S instead of coming up with actual arguments you star insulting. You till haven't replied to my other reply either.

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I would have different expectations managing the enterprise and end-users for a "technology" company than say a local government or manufacturing plant, or any company dealing with customers and having no time to fiddle with the UI. I would expect a "technology" company to be able to deal with Linux on the desktop.

Well kind of not true. We have non-technical folks too, there is a mix of admin/HR/executives/sales/marketing who don't fall under technical or r&d departments.

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This thread has gone far enough off-topic.

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