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#46 +LogicalApex

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 19:48

And who do you think will pay for this?  Not the hospital.  They will push those costs onto the people with insurance.

Yes the hospital should pay, and my understanding is they do here in Philadelphia. They get millions in tax payer subsidies annually being non-profit. If they want to keep that they should be held to the fire on providing a benefit to society. That doesn't mean they need to do everything for free, but to service the poor adequately should be a basic component of their non-profit status.




#47 -Razorfold

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 20:08

Yes the hospital should pay, and my understanding is they do here in Philadelphia. They get millions in tax payer subsidies annually being non-profit. If they want to keep that they should be held to the fire on providing a benefit to society. That doesn't mean they need to do everything for free, but to service the poor adequately should be a basic component of their non-profit status.

All the hospitals I know off are non-profit.

The way it works is that if you show up to the ER and need urgent care without insurance, they have to give it to you by law. BUT they only have to make sure you're stable and then they can kick you out.

What they do is then pass on the costs to the insurance companies so at the end of the day the hospital loses nothing, the insurance companies see a small loss and pass it on in the form of increased premiums.

#48 threetonesun

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 20:12

I always found the forced payments into social security stupid.

1. I'm not a US citizen, and I may never become one (or live here forever). But I still have to keep paying into it, even though I may not be eligible to receive benefits in the future (if you aren't a US citizen and you move abroad for more than 6 months then you're no longer eligible for benefits).

2. Considering the poor state of social security these days who knows how long it'll be around for in the future.
 

 

Social security (much like Medicare), makes plenty of sense if people didn't want to live forever. When social security was started, it wasn't a retirement fund, it was a safety net for people who lived longer than average. The same can be said of Medicare, it's great for people with disabilities, but it's getting run through the ringer now that we can make the $6 million 90 year old man.



#49 -Razorfold

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 20:33

Social security (much like Medicare), makes plenty of sense if people didn't want to live forever. When social security was started, it wasn't a retirement fund, it was a safety net for people who lived longer than average. The same can be said of Medicare, it's great for people with disabilities, but it's getting run through the ringer now that we can make the $6 million 90 year old man.

I know that but what I'm saying is that I'm basically paying into something that I may never get to use (either because I no longer live here, or because the thing implodes on itself).

#50 FloatingFatMan

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 20:42

I know that but what I'm saying is that I'm basically paying into something that I may never get to use (either because I no longer live here, or because the thing implodes on itself).

 

You run that risk with ANY type of insurance.



#51 -Razorfold

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 20:46

You run that risk with ANY type of insurance.

Except with insurance it's generally my choice. I can choose which provider I want, how much coverage I want etc. With social security I can't choose any of that.

Then if I remain a permanent resident and 20 years from now decide that I want to move to, say, Germany, well there goes all my social security contributions. It's not wasted because I never had a need for them, it's wasted because the US government requires perm. residents to live here in order to collect the benefits they paid for (it's automatically deducted from your paycheck whether you like it or not).

Yes I can become a citizen and not have to deal with that, but then I'm subject to double taxation if I ever move abroad.

---

To briefly explain SSA it's something everybody who works in the US pays into. It's automatically deducted from your paycheck and the amount varies based on how much you earn. Then when you turn 65 (?) you can start to collect benefits from it (ie the government sends you a check every month). What's funny is if your benefits are quite a lot (ie you had a high paying job) you then have to pay taxes on those benefits...

#52 Shadrack

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 20:51

Very true.

 

Basic plans aren't excessive and could serve as very good catastrophic care gap plans when needed. I used to pay ~$120/m for a very good catastrophic level plan for my wife because it was cheaper than adding her to my healthcare at work (remember preventative care is free on all plans).

 

$120/m seems expensive, but it is about the same as people tend to spend on their cell phone or cable tv bills.

Not true, the insurance will cover whatever the doctor says she needs and is allowed on her specific plan. The patient isn't forced to tell the doctor "you can only give me one pain pill because two is excessive and they won't pay for the second one."...

 

At least this is how it works in the US...

Not true.  Insurance routinely deny patient care in spite of Dr. recommendations.  Source: me.



#53 FloatingFatMan

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 20:53

Except with insurance it's generally my choice. I can choose which provider I want, how much coverage I want etc. With social security I can't choose any of that.

Then if I remain a permanent resident and 20 years from now decide that I want to move to, say, Germany, well there goes all my social security contributions. It's not wasted because I never had a need for them, it's wasted because the US government requires perm. residents to live here in order to collect the benefits they paid for (it's automatically deducted from your paycheck whether you like it or not).

Yes I can become a citizen and not have to deal with that, but then I'm subject to double taxation if I ever move abroad.

---

To briefly explain SSA it's something everybody who works in the US pays into. It's automatically deducted from your paycheck and the amount varies based on how much you earn. Then when you turn 65 (?) you can start to collect benefits from it (ie the government sends you a check every month). What's funny is if your benefits are quite a lot (ie you had a high paying job) you then have to pay taxes on those benefits...

 

That's really no different to any social healthcare system; except that in Europe at least, you can still access free healthcare due to international agreements.



#54 soldier1st

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 20:54

It seems it is more expensive to heal a person then it is to injure them. broken system we all got. Wheres the logic in that?



#55 +_Alexander

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:06

Simple question,

Do we have such a horrid health care system because the majority of us do not care about each other?

Or just do not have any power over our government?



#56 tmorris1

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 20:34

That's really no different to any social healthcare system; except that in Europe at least, you can still access free healthcare due to international agreements.

There is no such thing as free.  That social system is starting to show that it doesn't work.  Look at some of the European countries that are imploding.  You can keep giving things away and have it be sustainable.



#57 Dinggus

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 20:44

Oh no! Things like this is why I keep insurance. You can't afford to be without it.

 

ObamaCare!



#58 FloatingFatMan

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 21:30

There is no such thing as free.  That social system is starting to show that it doesn't work.  Look at some of the European countries that are imploding.  You can keep giving things away and have it be sustainable.

 

Free at point of use. Sure, you pay for it in taxes, but when you need it, it's essentially free.



#59 tmorris1

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 21:30

ObamaCare!

How is that working out?  They can't even agree on what it is even though they have already passed it.  They will delay it until after the election because it is a disaster waiting to happen.



#60 OP Hum

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 23:04

Simple question,

Do we have such a horrid health care system because the majority of us do not care about each other?

Or just do not have any power over our government?

Basically, there are just too many humans.

 

Reproduction is out of control.

 

The quality of life and caring drops.

 

Earth needs some limits. ;)





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