Showan Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well, how about the Creationists that force the biblical creation story to be taught in science class? That's favouring one religions viewpoint over others in a clear transgression of the separation of church and state. Or how about when religion sticks its oar in over homosexual issues such as same sex marriage, or when it also does it to abortion issues, or stem cell research and so on and so forth. All religion sticking its oar in and forcing laws to be made banning things that religion has no place interfering in. Now this is tough. Because this also the equivalent forcing people to believe that the Big Bang Theory is a fact, when it's well.... A theory... Marriage was/is considered a "sacred religious" ceremony among many different religions.... Long before those who scream about same sex marriages. As far as abortion goes... That's tough... For those who can't help it (rape victims, etc.) That's tough and I sympathize. I can see why abortion may be wanted. For those who can help it... Stop having sex without protection... or just not have sex altogether... If you can just voluntarily open your legs, then keep the kid that pops out... Never saw a problem with stem cells... We are suppose to do great and wonderful things as human beings... <~~~~~ Folks who go overboard Yes some "religious groups" go overboard... Couldn't the same be said about the "secular" world as well? G.i.b.b.s 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Do we tell those that have religious beliefs to go sit down and shut up? They do not get a say in any of these debates? Who else gets to be shut down? When it comes to making laws, hell yes they get told to shut up and sit down. Laws should only be based on facts, not stories that have no evidence in reality. +E.Worm Jimmy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Now this is tough. Because this also the equivalent forcing people to believe that the Big Bang Theory is a fact, when it's well.... A theory... It's not taught as fact, it's taught as a theory and the evidence for it is also taught. The only people who portray it as being taught as a fact are the Creationists trying to force their beliefs into the science class. Creationism has no science behind it, so doesn't belong in a science class. If you want to teach it in school, teach it in a theology class. Marriage was/is considered a "sacred religious" ceremony among many different religions.... Long before those who scream about same sex marriages. Marriage existed way before any current religions and doesn't need religion to exist. It's just a commitment people who love each other make to one another that is enshrined in law. Religion has no right to say who or who cannot undertake such a formal commitment, and to block them is just wrong. As far as abortion goes... That's tough... For those who can't help it (rape victims, etc.) That's tough and I sympathize. I can see why abortion may be wanted. For those who can help it... Stop having sex without protection... or just not have sex altogether... If you can just voluntarily open your legs, then keep the kid that pops out... It's made even tougher by religious idiots sticking their varied beliefs into the argument. Keep to the facts only and a sensible decision can be made. Never saw a problem with stem cells... We are suppose to do great and wonderful things as human beings... <~~~~~ Folks who go overboard Yes some "religious groups" go overboard... Couldn't the same be said about the "secular" world as well? There are far less secular loonies going overboard on such issues than there are religious ones. It seems that, these days, anything to do with science that gets objected to, is almost universally objected to on religious grounds. For example, yesterday, UK ministers voted on the subject of 3 parent babies, where DNA is taken from a 3rd party and used to replace defective DNA in the actual mother, thus removing a congenital defect forever. Religious groups did their damndest to scuttle the vote, but fortunately, facts prevailed. +E.Worm Jimmy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theholmboy Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Good discussion here! I live near Salt Lake City, but my work often takes me to Southern Utah and, at times, Hildale. I believe their offering a public school option is progress, even if it is only a small percentage that attend. I have nothing against home schooling, when it is done with some balance (social groups, field trips, etc), but I believe the way they have done it in this area has produced a backwards people... Backwards, from a societal integration standpoint. When they come to the "big city" of St George (where I usually interact with them), they seem overly timid and fearful. Maybe they have reason, but that kind of reaction to society is going to continue to force people inward. In this case, Hildale (and Colorado City) have been a very closed society and outsiders were made to feel unwelcome. I know I did and not even the fact that my religion and their predominant religion share common roots seemed to make a difference. I was an outsider. Opening a bed & breakfast is a bold move and I hope it opens the town to "the world" a little bit, making the area a bit more marketable. As you can see in the pictures from the story, it is quite picturesque and is close to several national parks. Frankly, the town could use some tourism dollars for general improvement. But that is another discussion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippleman Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Now this is tough. Does a school have enough time to go through all the worlds faith based supernatural claims? No. If you allow one, you must allow all. Marriage was/is considered a "sacred religious" ceremony among many different religions.... Marriage is NOT a religious thing. As far as abortion goes... That's tough... For those who can't help it (rape victims, etc.) That's tough and I sympathize. I am curious to what your position is on rape victim and abortion. You did not say you are either for or against, you said sympathize. Never saw a problem with stem cells... Although I am glad you feel this way, Just like all things religious, you can interpret them how ever you wish. in the case, you are interpreting them in a good way. Yes some "religious groups" go overboard... Couldn't the same be said about the "secular" world as well? The "overboard" ideas from religion stretches the human imagination. The severity and impact is far more drastic when religion is involved. +E.Worm Jimmy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showan Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Does a school have enough time to go through all the worlds faith based supernatural claims? No. If you allow one, you must allow all. But you have to be ready for the people requesting that Big Bang not be brought up as well. Fair is Fair correct. Marriage is NOT a religious thing. Considered sacred and spiritual (myself being a Christian fall into this group) I am curious to what your position is on rape victim and abortion. You did not say you are either for or against, you said sympathize. That's tough for me to answer. Although I am glad you feel this way, Just like all things religious, you can interpret them how ever you wish. in the case, you are interpreting them in a good way. The "overboard" ideas from religion stretches the human imagination. The severity and impact is far more drastic when religion is involved. Overboard is overboard... No matter if your Christian like myself or atheist such as you... Overboard is a human thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippleman Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 But you have to be ready for the people requesting that Big Bang not be brought up as well. Fair is Fair correct. As with the way most things should be... you begin at the default position of neutrality then build outwards based on evidence. The reason Big Bang is taught is because of the accumulated knowledge that we have gained, as a result, as of now it is the most likely and probable description of what has happened. If someone, like yourself for example, came forward with concrete undeniable evidence of some other possibility that was drastically more likely, then it would be taught instead. You may very well feel that way and I actually agree, but even with that, its still not a religious thing. in no way shape or form does religion have any right to/about marriage. The only thing religion has is their version of a ceremony. Shouldn't it be easy for you to answer? According to Christian mythology, you don't have a say in what you think, don't you have to think and feel what ever you have been conditioned to believe from your book as law? No way. There is overboard and then there is overboard that conforms with reality. If you were to choose to deal with an overboard person, would you rather them based in reality or in their own magical word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intersect Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Should it not be a very simple case of having some one from a government department to visit any and all home schooled children no matter what the religious preference the family have to keep an eye on the situation and make sure the children are being taught to a good standard and if there is cause for concern involve social services which is CPS in the USA. This guy would properly have been caught sooner rather than later if there were people checking up on this home school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showan Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 As with the way most things should be... you begin at the default position of neutrality then build outwards based on evidence. The reason Big Bang is taught is because of the accumulated knowledge that we have gained, as a result, as of now it is the most likely and probable description of what has happened. If someone, like yourself for example, came forward with concrete undeniable evidence of some other possibility that was drastically more likely, then it would be taught instead. You may very well feel that way and I actually agree, but even with that, its still not a religious thing. in no way shape or form does religion have any right to/about marriage. The only thing religion has is their version of a ceremony. Shouldn't it be easy for you to answer? According to Christian mythology, you don't have a say in what you think, don't you have to think and feel what ever you have been conditioned to believe from your book as law? No way. There is overboard and then there is overboard that conforms with reality. If you were to choose to deal with an overboard person, would you rather them based in reality or in their own magical word? Overboard's meaning doesn't change, no matter how you slice the pie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well said DocM. The idea of the "state" taking over the care and education of our children even more than it already has is frightening. The "state" already plays a huge role and government intrusion into citizens lives has run amok. I can imagine a day when parents get jailed because they're not sending their children to state-sponsored indoctrination camps called public schools. The educational system in the US is broken, especially in urban largely minority communities unfortunately. What's needed as DocM said is choice and options like homeschooling, charter schools, magnet schools, early college academies, etc. The state dictating how you raise you children conjures up images of the "Hitler Youth". What's become of this great nation when we no longer have the freedom to live as a family as we see fit. As to this particular case brought up by the OP if there is real abuse occurring then they should be placed in the care of relatives or if necessary foster homes to protect them. Outside of that, the government needs to stay out of our lives. OMG, the horror of derivatives and integrals! Damn the government! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted February 4, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted February 4, 2015 god i feel dumber for even reading this. to say big bang theory (which is based on facts, and in fact predicted scientific finding, that turned out to be true) have to be dismissed because it is a "theory" thats just ignorance. it is called a "theory" because none have seen it happen, but the possibility of it happening is based on a lot of documented fact. until there is any significant doubt, it should be taught, since it is the best science we got. who are you to say, Mr Creationist Whoever, that God did not choose to create the Universe out of Big Bang???? Ohh, the book that was written thousand years ago, and was interpreted by people of many different timelines and intellects, and translated again and again. yeah, no reason to suspect that some things in it are more of a preaching guidelines for the folks of the time.... noooo take everything it says as fact. FFS, old testiment is just brutal. if you believe the age of earth from it, then you better believe everything else... and be shoved from any modern society. in fact, go back to stoning your wife for using WIFI i believe in god. but this outdated religious bullcrap has got to stop. seriously. god (higher power) and science can totally coexist. so many new discoveries. so many possibilities..... who are you to say WHAT IS GOD ANYWAY? it is a human story made up years ago. but, no, religion is not interested. no thank you. ps. Vatican holy see is more then a little bit occult and have rites and ceremonies that are just weird to normal Christians. there is no transparency. If there is more to the understanding and they are hording it, then how is that fair. ohh yeah, turn the other cheek, while i parade in gold. damn... /rant over. i am a bit angry and riled up over something else... so, a bit emotional.. now to get some food and beer and relax over favourite show.... grrrr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intersect Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 OMG, the horror of derivatives and integrals! Damn the government! well when your acting above the law then they have every right to. Dont break the law and then cry like a ***** when your ass gets handed to you for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixedcat Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 the bible was rang thru google translate and you know how bad it is +E.Worm Jimmy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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