The Evil Overlord Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 On 03/05/2016 at 3:06 PM, DocM said: Read a map. Those waters are international, not Russia's private pond. As it is the US has said our rules of engagement would have allowed our ships commander & aircraft to splash Russia's planes. Next time they, and their base, may not be so lucky. This is a good point, although we may or may not be entitled to these maps (for whatever reason) I think a little openness and transparency might help. For instance, if we could see the international waters, and the boundaries clearly marked etc.. But then again, this itself could be interpreted the wrong way, and we're back to square one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: And if it was mere seconds, there wouldn't have been time to target, fire and hit the plane, all whilst it was in Turkish airspace. It was there for far longer. Havnt you heard? That is all western propaganda. West bad, Russia good...blah blah blah. Funny how some here shoot down anything the west says and accept everything else as fact. Propaganda does not just happen in one country. OR rather, more than one country produces it. Faults everywhere. This blame game, finger pointing, and bitching back and forth needs to stop. Said it before, but it is pretty damn sad that we cannot get along with out countries and act like children. Dick Montage and The Evil Overlord 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Overlord Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 On 03/05/2016 at 6:44 PM, DocM said: American ships in international waters. Maybe we should send a few F-22's or Warthogs to do a supersonic buzz of some Russian ships in the area? Or have a cruise missile do a flyby? That's what this crap can lead to with one provocation too many. A Warthog can go supersonic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Overlord Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 7 hours ago, DocM said: Fortunately for them the Russian pilots didn't turn on their targeting radars for "practice." What plane is that, (I was thinking of one, but I'm refraining as I'll probably end up looking stupid for guessing the wrong decade of jet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 I'm supporting Russia here. This is the USA trying to bully the world. They want control of all Pacific trades and to "rape" China and Russia. ctebah and +Mirumir 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, The Evil Overlord said: What plane is that, (I was thinking of one, but I'm refraining as I'll probably end up looking stupid for guessing the wrong decade of jet) Sukhoi Su-24 I believe DocM and The Evil Overlord 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Overlord Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, techbeck said: Sukhoi Su-24 I believe Thank you, I was out be a couple of decades and will now drop the subject about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuskd Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) 28 minutes ago, norseman said: I'm supporting Russia here. This is the USA trying to bully the world. They want control of all Pacific trades and to "rape" China and Russia. Well the same could be said to both Russia and China as well. Everyone wants to be a leader. Pardon me for a silly question, What business does US/UK have in the region? Were they invited by any of those Baltic nations or they're there just because its international waters and they can? Because if someone I don't have good relations with is lurking around my backyard, I'd be more than concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 I believe they were invited over by the USA. To cause a war, they need partners to secure a position of who is in the wrong and it is more profitable for both the UK and USA to take down Russia. ctebah 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted May 5, 2016 Subscriber¹ Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said: Whilst I might agree that the current standing government isn't the constitutionally voted for government, revolutions happen. They've taken control and ARE the legal government, and are the one the Ukrainian people seem to want. Have you seen Poroshenko's approval rating recently? Quote I guess your Russian news sources censored all the pics. Contrary to a popular belief, the western media lack this kind of evidence as well. 2 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said: And if it was mere seconds, there wouldn't have been time to target, fire and hit the plane, all whilst it was in Turkish airspace. It was there for far longer. Hence, why it's been called a backstab. The Turkish side said the Russian plane was in their space for less than 20 seconds. They had been waiting for it, because they had known its mission and flight path (because Russia had shared this info with her "partners"). And I'm not an expert on the velocity of missiles and the time it might have taken in those circumstances. The point I was trying to make was that it was not Russia who was crazy and trigger-happy. ctebah 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted May 5, 2016 Subscriber¹ Share Posted May 5, 2016 9 hours ago, DocM said: Fortunately for them the Russian pilots didn't turn on their targeting radars for "practice." Because they're professionals who know the consequences of their actions. And the U.S. can always go to court with Russia suing for the moral damages the USS ship's crew might have incurred as a result of this incident. p.s. By the way, NATO's new commander, Mr. Scaparrotti, has said that reviewing all the rules of engagement will be his top priority and I support this initiative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Montage Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said: I guess your Russian news sources censored all the pics. No, they don't have propaganda in Russia. At all. Everyone sees only the truth without bias. /s Jim K 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted May 5, 2016 Subscriber¹ Share Posted May 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, Nik L said: No, they don't have propaganda in Russia. At all. Everyone sees only the truth without bias. /s The russian propaganda doesn't influence the billions of people around the world as the western one does. Compared to the western one, the Russian propaganda is a drop in the ocean, both in terms of the numbers of MSM outlets and their budgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Montage Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Just now, Mirumir said: The russian propaganda doesn't influence billions people around the world as the western one does. Compared to the western one, the Russian propaganda is a drop in the ocean, both in numbers of MSM and their budgets. Wait, so now they DO have a propaganda machine? Off to re-education for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted May 5, 2016 Subscriber¹ Share Posted May 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Nik L said: Wait, so now they DO have a propaganda machine? Off to re-education for you... I thought we'd been over this. Propaganda - dissemination of information. Is Russia not allowed to broadcast her point of view to the world? ctebah 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mirumir said: I thought we'd been over this. Propaganda - dissemination of information. Is Russia not allowed to broadcast her point of view to the world? How do you know yours is honest and ours isn't? At the end of the day, propaganda is propaganda. There's no such thing as honest propaganda. Jim K and Dick Montage 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctebah Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 1 minute ago, FloatingFatMan said: How do you know yours is honest and ours isn't? At the end of the day, propaganda is propaganda. There's no such thing as honest propaganda. Where did he say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) Propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. or ideas or statements that are often false or exaggerated and that are spread in order to help a cause, a political leader, a government, etc. US says something, it is propaganda....Russia says something, is is dissemination of info and some do not call it propaganda or refer to it as such unless the info comes from the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted May 5, 2016 Subscriber¹ Share Posted May 5, 2016 18 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: How do you know yours is honest and ours isn't? At the end of the day, propaganda is propaganda. There's no such thing as honest propaganda. Of course, there are all kinds of flavours of propaganda out there from deceitful and lying to honest and truthful propaganda. It's a neutral word which simply means dissemination of information. But it's been hijacked and abused in order to discredit an opponent's worldview. Quote Propaganda is a modern Latin word, the gerundive form of propagare, meaning to spread or to propagate, thus propaganda means that which is to be propagated. As for your question, I'll give you a short answer: experience. If you watch RT, all they gotta do is expose the lies of the western channels. They don't waste millions "inventing" stuff. And contrary to a popular belief, there's a variety of opinions and debates taking place on the Russian local channels. The russians bid farewell to censorship when Gorbachev introduced Glasnost. There's no coming back and people would revolt if they were lied to or deceived. Of course, the western media have never actually told you anything truthful about the Russian affairs in the last 500 years so you wouldn't know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) Sorry, experience has shown me not to believe most of what the governments/media spoon feeds you. Some cannot form their own thoughts without being told. And I am not naive enough to believe anyone here is innocent. Unless you have hard proof yourself, you are just buying in to everything you are accusing the other of doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted May 5, 2016 Subscriber¹ Share Posted May 5, 2016 9 minutes ago, techbeck said: Sorry, experience has shown me not to believe most of what the governments/media spoon feeds you. Some cannot form their own thoughts without being told. And I am not naive enough to believe anyone here is innocent. Unless you have hard proof yourself, you are just buying in to everything you are accusing the other of doing. I guess I really have to come up one day with a full list of websites where I get my news from so you all could check them out on your own. I research the information and double-check all the facts. And I have no problem being called a conspiracy theorist since most of what I've posted on this forum sooner or later turns out to be just "facts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Just now, Mirumir said: I guess I really have to come up one day with a full list of websites where I get my news from so you all could check them out on your own. Doesnt matter, you will dismiss them and site a russian news site/official that refutes the claims and then you will call the west liars. All you are doing is the same things you accuse others. Siting sites that claim Russia is wrong, West is wrong...and vise versa. This can go on until the end of time as one side wont believe what the other says, reads something, makes post to disprove the other... Shocker, your government and media that supports your government will tell you things you want to hear and try to keep them in good standings. Same with the west. We know what we are told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctebah Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, Mirumir said: I guess I really have to come up one day with a full list of websites where I get my news from so you all could check them out on your own. 2 minutes ago, techbeck said: Doesnt matter, you will dismiss them and site a russian news site/official that refutes the claims and then you will call the west liars. Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ctebah said: Huh? Misread the comment. Read it as show me a list of sites I have...but my point still stands. I can post links all day long disputing everything he says. No one knows everything here and it is funny how people claim the west is full of crap while thinking their own country isnt. Everyone is doing stupid stuff. To think otherwise is foolish. To believe only a few media resources and everything your government says, is foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctebah Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Just now, techbeck said: Misread the comment. Read it as show me a list of sites I have...but my point still stands. I can post links all day long disputing everything he says. No one knows everything here and it is funny how people claim the west is full of crap while thinking their own country isnt. No one said that, including him, so I'm not sure where you're getting that. He merely pointed out the reach of Western Propaganda and how Russian Propaganda, including it's budget, is a drop in the bucket compared to West/US Propaganda. Those are undeniable facts. +Mirumir 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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