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Opera: Microsoft's 'minor tweak' of Windows 7 not enough


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#46 statm1

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:42

Uh, yes it does.

No it does not. MS was punished already for the 90s case by the US DOJ. This is an entirely new case.

That is your personal opinion. The courts disagree. Firefox is not a very good example either, as it is a non-profit volunteer project that arose from the ruins of Netscape (which, in the end, was unable to compete with Microsoft).

That is not my personal opinion. Firefox has succeeded and did so all on their own having just hit their billionth download without the help of any governmental body fining their competition for them. That is FACT and that does PROVE that bundling IE is not anti-competitive, if you have a good enough product to compete with that is.. It does not matter where Firefox came from or who makes it. Netscape just could not make a good enough browser to compete where Mozilla has.

If you break the law, you should be punished. I don't see you people lining up to defend other criminals. It doesn't matter what Opera wants out of it.

The point of Firefox getting their billionth download proves that MS didn't break the law, because if bundling IE with Windows in the era of Firefox is anti-competitive then Firefox should not have succeeded.

I can't believe you're so god damn naive that you can't even imagine the possibility that the companies that are prosecuted (which are not just American) are actually guilty. Microsoft might make some nice products, but it's not your friend, and it's behavior in the past has been despicable.

It sounds like your the one that is naive. If you would take your head out of your ass you would see that the world is not only black and white. There is a perfectly legitimate gray area. Smaller companies complain and cause trouble for larger companies all the time. Especially when they can't develop a product that is as good or better than the one they are trying to compete against. Just seems like you have a chip on your shoulder over companies that find their niche and become and continue to be successful. Large companies should not have to appoligize for being successful.


#47 Unimatrix Xero

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:42

opera can shut up moaning i used to have some respect for opea now ive lost off respect for them

#48 Prince Charming

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:44

Look at that, another thread where almost all the whiners are from the 'States.

This is my surprised face.




Er what, on this page alone I see two people from the UK saying Opera and the EU are retarded and one person in favour of Opera/IE's removal from the USA.

Your suprised face needs work.

#49 M_Lyons10

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:49

Look at that, another thread where almost all the whiners are from the 'States.

This is my surprised face.


No one's whining (Aside from Opera of course). I personally would not want an operating system that out of the box couldn't surf the internet. I use Firefox. By running Windows I was not obligated to use IE. I installed a new browser (Not Opera because it sucks...). I tried Opera. I tried Safari. Didn't like either of those. Chrome is O.K... I personally don't think this is doing consumers any favors. It's going to be a pain for them, especially the ones that aren't techie... And now Opera wants Microsoft to rework the OS so that the bits and pieces of IE that the OS uses and are used by other programs aren't necessary? All developers that make use of the IE components should have to rework their applications to make Opera happy? This is becoming ridiculous.

#50 Miuku.

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:51

Mozilla was backed by one of the largest IT businesses in the world, notably Google. 85% of their revenue comes from that.

#51 M_Lyons10

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:55

It sounds like your the one that is naive. If you would take your head out of your ass you would see that the world is not only black and white. There is a perfectly legitimate gray area. Smaller companies complain and cause trouble for larger companies all the time. Especially when they can't develop a product that is as good or better than the one they are trying to compete against. Just seems like you have a chip on your shoulder over companies that find their niche and become and continue to be successful. Large companies should not have to appoligize for being successful.


Good post.

Mozilla was backed by one of the largest IT businesses in the world, notably Google. 85% of their revenue comes from that.


And it now matters where they make their money because? That particular profit comes from searches conducted from WITHIN the Firefox browser. If they were unable to gain market share and get users to use the search built into Firefox, they would not have made that money. The fact that they have made a profit in this way only supports my statement. They have also made some profit by assisting in the development of solutions for other companies (An example would be the new Netscape browser - which I have not used).

#52 Miuku.

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:59

And it now matters where they make their money because? That particular profit comes from searches conducted from WITHIN the Firefox browser.

Which is set as the default search engine. If Mozilla changed the default search engine to say, Bing, what do you think would happen to their profits?

If they were unable to gain market share and get users to use the search built into Firefox, they would not have made that money. The fact that they have made a profit in this way only supports my statement.

They already had an established user base - mainly that made up by ex-Netscape users who disliked IE in the first place and alternative operating system users.

If you think I'm an Opera user, you're gravely mistaken - I use Safari. However you'd have to be blind not to see that bundling IE with the operating system was nothing less than an attempt to kill competition, it should've been nipped at the bud but unfortunately EU and DOJ were handless at the time. Unfortunately, in a sense, it was too late for Netscape but I'm sure at least some of the ex-workers there are smiling now.

#53 statm1

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:02

They have also made some profit by assisting in the development of solutions for other companies (An example would be the new Netscape browser - which I have not used).

I believe the "new" netscape browser was made as a last ditch effort by Netscape to gain any traction they could. But all it was, was a Firefox clone like Flock. They gave up quite some time ago though.

If you think I'm an Opera user, you're gravely mistaken - I use Safari. However you'd have to be blind not to see that bundling IE with the operating system was nothing less than an attempt to kill competition, it should've been nipped at the bud but unfortunately EU and DOJ were handless at the time. Unfortunately, in a sense, it was too late for Netscape but I'm sure at least some of the ex-workers there are smiling now.

I will have to disagree with you on that one.. It was simply one company putting their own product on to another one of their own products. Something any company should have the right to do. And again since Firefox still exists and is still very successful apparently it only hurts competiton when you cant compete in the first place which is the case with Netscape and Opera. If you have a good product obviously you can compete whether IE gets bundled or not.

Edited by statm1, 18 July 2009 - 10:09.


#54 John Freeman

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:05

Although Opera can suck it with their ballot screen, it would be just hiiiilarious if they made one without including those whiners. But seriously, they are just acting like kids going "mommy, mommy, no ones noticing me at school! Do Smth!" Too bad Europe is to big of a market, not some small country that ms could pull out all together.

#55 SVG

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:06

One piece of advice for Opera.. Stop programming for Windows

#56 MightyJordan

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:14

opera can shut up moaning i used to have some respect for opea now ive lost off respect for them

Agreed. Opera have no ground to stand on until they can make a half-decent browser again. Back during the XP days, Opera was the fastest of all the browsers. Now, it's slower then even IE! And I'm talking about Opera 10 with Turbo Mode turned on! Hell, it's even slower than Safari now!

#57 Ambroos

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:23

A good product doesn't need promotion (Firefox, anyone?) And Opera should just stop it right now cause what they're doing is just getting ridiculous. If people want to use a different browser they will anyway. I use Firefox, but I can't live without Chrome/IE for my web development stuff etc. An OS without a browser is so 90's, it should not have happened.

#58 Prince Charming

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:23

Which is set as the default search engine. If Mozilla changed the default search engine to say, Bing, what do you think would happen to their profits?


They already had an established user base - mainly that made up by ex-Netscape users who disliked IE in the first place and alternative operating system users.

If you think I'm an Opera user, you're gravely mistaken - I use Safari. However you'd have to be blind not to see that bundling IE with the operating system was nothing less than an attempt to kill competition, it should've been nipped at the bud but unfortunately EU and DOJ were handless at the time. Unfortunately, in a sense, it was too late for Netscape but I'm sure at least some of the ex-workers there are smiling now.


No, it's perfectly acceptable in my book. They made an Internet Browser, which is a rather important piece of software, especially today. They made an operating system, which is an even more important piece of software; it's likely users will want both. Both were provided. Please observe Apple doing exactly the same practice with Safari - in a proper, sensible, free-market that isn't so retardedly constrained, the relatively market share is irrelevant. It doesn't matter that Windows has something like 95% of the market and OS X around 5%; you shouldn't target the market leader just because they're in front. It's...stupid.

#59 Berserk87

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:28

on any phone other than an iphone, i use opera mobile, or opera mini.

it compared to the default browsers, it usually wins, as for desktops though, ill stick with firefox or chrome.

#60 Bassem

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:32

Shut up already.