guru Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) The EU are a bunch of meddling morons, nothing more and nothing less. They seem to think all of their citizens are brain dead morons that can't figure out how to install another browser by themselves sure but MS aren't saints either and they did use their monopoly to shove IE on every (most) PC's.. if anything this could be considered payback. The questions and investigations on monopoly practices are good in this case against MS are good. their solutions are bad (atleast in this case). Recently EU fined Intel over anti competitive practices where they used their near monopoly advantage against AMD (paybacks, "rebates" etc). EU should have fined MS given some of that to Opera and Let MS keep IE in Win7 ... after all a lot of water has flown under the bridge since mid/ late 90's wish Opera stuck to marketing its browser than whining. anyone else see the hypocrisy of Google here. They peddle Chrome on every sire of theirs youtube,google,gmail..and yet hopped on the gravy train against MS Edited June 12, 2009 by guru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athernar Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 The EU are a bunch of meddling morons, nothing more and nothing less. They seem to think all of their citizens are brain dead morons that can't figure out how to install another browser by themselves If they thought, and realised that for the majority at least, that end-users are infact "brain dead morons" that can't install another browser (or don't even care for that matter) then they would of dismissed Opera's case. Problem is, this case will never come to a satisfactory resolution. Since even if you offer a list (How do you decide who merits inclusion on this list too?) I can almost guarantee the end-user will just select IE because the icon is familiar and it mentions "Internet" in it's title. Mr & Mrs Bloggs don't want a fancy browser, they just want a white box that loads google, nothing more, nothing less. Personally, as I mentioned before, the only issue that needs addressing is to make sure that Microsoft are made to adhere to web standards, so browser vendors can work on features rather than workarounds, and sites render exactly cross-browser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisj1968 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 The EU is so anal. I feel sorry for those of you who live there under that nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_ralphie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Calm down. I don't work for Microsoft and don't earn anything off them. My "hypocrisy" is only as bad as yours. ;) but why is it ok for one company to do something, but not the other? you whine about opera, but not about mozilla and google who are also part of the complaint? The EU are a bunch of meddling morons, nothing more and nothing less. They seem to think all of their citizens are brain dead morons that can't figure out how to install another browser by themselves that's not what this is about at all. the simple fact is that microsoft broke the law. are you saying that the eu should not enforce its own laws? or should they enforce it for everyone except microsoft? The EU is so anal. I feel sorry for those of you who live there under that nonsense the same question goes to you. are you saying that the eu should not enforce its own laws? or should they enforce it for everyone except microsoft? is america anal for having antitrust laws? or is that only the eu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 but why is it ok for one company to do something, but not the other? you whine about opera, but not about mozilla and google who are also part of the complaint? Well I never said it's ok for mozilla or google but let's face the fact that Opera is the original cry baby and Mozilla/others are just enjoying the ride. I said Firefox since that's what I was using at the time. They won't obviously bundle Chrome or Opera. I "whine" about Opera? Yeah it is a ****ed up program in terms of usability and all but I don't really whine about it. If me saying which browser matters that much then let's change my post to something like this ---> Microsoft should give a big **** OFF to EU/Opera/Mozilla/Google/IBM and provide only Maxthon*/Iron** on the ballot. :p * Maxthon now supports using webkit in addition to trident. ** AFAIK SRware is not part of the whiny baby group. You happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fammie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Well I never said it's ok for mozilla or google but let's face the fact that Opera is the original cry baby and Mozilla/others are just enjoying the ride. So it is OK for Mozilla and Google to do it, but not Opera? Why? Microsoft should give a big **** OFF to EU/Opera/Mozilla/Google/IBM and provide only Maxthon*/Iron** on the ballot. :p That is not up to Microsoft, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero_Rising Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 This is basically ms giving the eu the middle finger. They're like "You don't want ie in it well here you go no browser what are you gonna do now". I bet the eu still takes some money from them lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 This is basically ms giving the eu the middle finger. They're like "You don't want ie in it well here you go no browser what are you gonna do now". I bet the eu still takes some money from them lol. YEAH MAN! JUST THIS MORNING I DROVE PAST THE COPS AT TWICE THE SPEED LIMIT AND GAVE THEM THE FINGER AND SHOUTED "SUCK IT, PIGS!" HA HA WOOO WHAT ARE THEY GONNA DO! THEY CAN'T TOUCH ME! Actually, I'm writing this from a jail cell. Microsoft isn't above the law, and trying to be clever won't get them anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero_Rising Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 YEAH MAN! JUST THIS MORNING I DROVE PAST THE COPS AT TWICE THE SPEED LIMIT AND GAVE THEM THE FINGER AND SHOUTED "SUCK IT, PIGS!" HA HA WOOO WHAT ARE THEY GONNA DO! THEY CAN'T TOUCH ME!Actually, I'm writing this from a jail cell. Microsoft isn't above the law, and trying to be clever won't get them anywhere. This whole eu investigation is stupid they have the right to bundle it if they want to and this is coming from someone who hates ie. Although I really only hate ie 6 and 7 because of all the rendering issues they have. What else were they supposed to do if they go and make a selection screen then browsers with like 3 people using them will come out of the woodwork complaining and the eu will listen cause they want more money. The only way to cover themselves from more litigation was to eliminate ie from the stock install all together it won't affect the mainstream consumer because they get their pcs from oems who will put a browser on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 This whole eu investigation is stupid they have the right to bundle it if they want to and this is coming from someone who hates ie. Nice job on not understanding the case at all. I'd explain it, but what's the point, it's already been explained half a dozen times. Personally I think removing IE is the most logical decision, but I can certainly see how this does nothing to offer reparations to the parties Microsoft's illegal practices caused harm to. That is something a list of browsers would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted June 13, 2009 Member Share Posted June 13, 2009 This is basically ms giving the eu the middle finger. They're like "You don't want ie in it well here you go no browser what are you gonna do now". I bet the eu still takes some money from them lol. Yep. That's it in a nut shell. Funny thing is that Microsoft started all this long ago when they deliberately shut out Opera from some of their pages. I can't remember if was MSN or Hotmail. These two have been battling ever since. It looks like Opera may have the last laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fammie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 This whole eu investigation is stupid they have the right to bundle it if they want to No. When someone breaks the law, that has consequences. Microsoft broke the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmc777 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Nice job on not understanding the case at all. I'd explain it, but what's the point, it's already been explained half a dozen times. :D We'll still be getting the cookie-cutter "EU just wants more money/MS can do what they want/Why don't they sue Apple?/Why don't they force Linux distros to remove Firefox?/Opera should stop whining/They hate us for our freedom!" posts when this thread hits page 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pupik Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 No. When someone breaks the law, that has consequences. Microsoft broke the law. If it really broke the law, then why stop at the browser? Why not make Microsoft offer replacements for the media player, explorer, file searcher (even though Google already hit Microsoft at that), audio recorder, media center, photo gallery, paint, notepad... (I could continue for hours) while they're at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fammie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 If it really broke the law, then why stop at the browser? Because the complaint was about the browser. Why not make Microsoft offer replacements for the media player, explorer, file searcher (even though Google already hit Microsoft at that), audio recorder, media center, photo gallery, paint, notepad... (I could continue for hours) while they're at it? Can you show that Microsoft broke the law in these cases too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pupik Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Can you show that Microsoft broke the law in these cases too? They're available with the operating system from the get go (the same as the browser) :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kralik Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 So how will we download a browser without a browser? :huh:Everyone retweet this: @MSWindows #EUFail Microsoft plans to remove Internet Explorer from the versions of Windows 7 that it ships in Europe, CNET News has learned Windows Update ;) They'll push it up there.. the case against MS is hilariously stupid IMO.. they are being punished for being too good.. why doesn't Opera improve its sucky browser and compete.. after all people are switching to Google Chrome and Firefox too aren't they? Reason.. they offer something good.. Opera is just a trashy product.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Was integrating Notepad into windows after having it previously be a standalone product an intentional move to kill off the competition in the low-end text editor market? Because that's what happened with IE. Microsoft makes some decent products, but their business practices have in the past been appalling and should not be defended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 They're available with the operating system from the get go (the same as the browser) :rolleyes: Not to mention there are competitors for almost all of the applications built into Windows. I feel that Microsoft are already starting to help the web coding community by making IE W3C standard compliant, but nothing they do is ever enough. Was integrating Notepad into windows after having it previously be a standalone product an intentional move to kill off the competition in the low-end text editor market? Because that's what happened with IE.Microsoft makes some decent products, but their business practices have in the past been appalling and should not be defended. I doubt it somehow, the low end text editing market isn't exactly a major threat to their business. To me, I would believe it was included just for the purposes of convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 <<snipped>> User "fammie" joined today and defending Opera in two separate threads...hmmm :whistle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fammie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Was integrating Notepad into windows after having it previously be a standalone product an intentional move to kill off the competition in the low-end text editor market? Was there an existing text editor market, and was it killed off? Did Notepad purposely violate the standards and only read proprietary text files that no other editors could read? Not to mention there are competitors for almost all of the applications built into Windows. I feel that Microsoft are already starting to help the web coding community by making IE W3C standard compliant, but nothing they do is ever enough. The problem is that they what they are doing is to try to avoid having to give up their dominance gained by illegal means. Nothing they do is ever enough because it doesn't actually address the core issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Was there an existing text editor market, and was it killed off? Did Notepad purposely violate the standards and only read proprietary text files that no other editors could read? No, that's the whole point. It's not a valid comparison at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylcard Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Why would MS put rival programs in Windows Update ? Bad enough that they were fined, they'll help their competitors ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted June 13, 2009 Member Share Posted June 13, 2009 The problem is that they what they are doing is to try to avoid having to give up their dominance gained by illegal means. Nothing they do is ever enough because it doesn't actually address the core issue. This is an interesting read. https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=106941 Even in 2003 IE was throttling the web with their lack of standards. Just imagine where we could have been vs. where we are. And you are correct, even if Microsoft does right now, that won't repair years of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Bad enough that they were fined, they'll help their competitors ? Well, they screwed them over for a decade, so it's not completely unreasonable to demand some sort of reparations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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