valhalla_rk Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 After establishing unity government with Fatah, Hamas launches campaign to clarify that group is not surrendering hard-line principles; ?Any Hamas leader who ever recognizes Israel will be kicked out,? declares Hamas lawmaker http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3378559,00.html so what we suppose to do? try to get in peace with someones who claim continuously that they will never recognize israel? why should we support, recognize government like that? That is what the palestinian people chose, never to get in peace with israel, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digipoi Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 The Muslim World should be happy now. What say rana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_sphinx_ Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 No Val, there is no hope. I've lived in the region long enough to know that and by now, you should too...we both know how this is going to end up too, but let's NEVER go there! I'm not up for an argument like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_rk Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 And i'm still living in this region and so i'll live all my life, i love this place after all, this is my home. Well, somebody said something similar to hope is the dangerous of all, but i'm optimistic, this hasn't got me in a surprised, they just saying loud what they've said "quite" till now. You are Egyptian, if i remember correctly, Israel and Egypt, has a peace treaty, cold peace but peace. Although i see sometime in the news that there are people there that clearly wants the israel will vanish, i don't hate them, i don't know how the Educational system in Egypt works, but in here, the palestinians clearly teach their children of hate, Israel doesn't exist in their maps, and israelis referred as the "Zionist Enemy", "Shaitan" and such (worse...). the only way i think that peace can be achieved is that they will change the education hate system. you may say that in israel this is the same, well, i can assure you this is not the situation, true, you learn here more about your people history, and the Israel's "Aliyot", and the 3 arabic authoricities in 21, 29 and 36-39 but we do not learn how to hate, never. most of the songs are against war ("flowers in the barrel , woman in the turret", "Just sing a song for peace", and many others), not about shahada and killing as many as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykranth Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 A question that has been raised several times in previous threads is whether Hamas gained political majority because of its program or after a protestation vote against Fatah government which has been plagued by corruption and inefficiency. I doubt that the average palestinian is embracing Hamas' political stance: don't you think most of the Palestinian would recognize the state of Israel? In any case, the situation is dead-locked: even if a unity government has been set-up, it does not solve the problem of the relationships with Israel or the Internatinal Comunity. EU cannot sponsor a government bent on destroying a state: it's a major shooting in the foot. On a side note, I heard on the news this morning that Ehud Olmert reached an all-time low for popularity and that he was bound to be replaced by Tzipi Livni: the current foreigen minister. Do you think that she would do better, valhalla_rk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_rk Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 well, a unity government is good, but if their base concepts hasn't changed it's worthless. they don't recognize us, and as it seems, only after we vanish (and we won't) they will recognize that once were here a jewish state. i don't know if majority of palestinians think like that, i'm sure that they are not, at least not the elder ones who have sense. you've heard on the news? lol, he made a press conference, which half of it olmert said: "I am not popular, i know i am not popular, the media blah blah blah". i didn't vote for him and him party (Kadima), i voted Avoda (Peretz) (even though i almost voted Ale Yarok :p) Tzipi Livni is "nice" but i don't really want to see her as a PM, don't know, i just can't see her as PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeroday Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Information Minister Mustafa Barghouti said the government opposed any attacks on civilians and endorsed only resistance that was acceptable under international law.He said Palestinians were also ready to end all forms of violence if Israel would agree to a comprehensive ceasefire. Israel and the US have criticised the statement. Source A comprehensive ceasefire seems like the best thing for all sides. Not only that, it could be the first step towards solving bigger problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_rk Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 you know how many "comperhensive" cease fires were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_sphinx_ Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 you know how many "comperhensive" cease fires were? EXACTLY! Face it, chances that both sides are going to give it a rest are slim at best. And you're right, hate education exacerbates violence and isn't making things better. But don't blame Arab education and leave it at that; you know full well Zionism isn't exactly calling for cooperation with Arabs. Regardless, I've become mutual on the issue...maybe I'll blame either side once or twice but I find that caring about this issue is useless. You'll end up giving yourself a headache, so let politics take its war and hope to God you don't live too see the ultimate event (again, you know what I'm talking about) that will proceed the useless attempts to found peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvo Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Well, if you lived in Palestine and had your land progressively taken to turn it into what is today Israel I bet you'd be ****ed too regardless who they are. It's not anymore about jewish vs islam. It's about the principle, land. Why should one have land when the other can't? That being said, there is no hope as long as Israel, a state that should know a thing or two about genocides, does not recognize the genocide done by the Ottoman Empire since Israel is Turkey's only friend of that region. Gotta love politics and business. It's not about muslims, since Turkey is an islamic state regardless how free you may be. They'll censor the **** out of you if you speak against them. They believe in what other muslims believe, but they are Israel's friends. It's all business, not a religion thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimy Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 ?Any Hamas leader who ever recognizes Israel will be kicked out,? declares Hamas lawmaker Hamas' opinion is the last that should matter. IIRC they were created and supported by Iran. They don't represent Palestinians, as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_rk Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 EXACTLY!Face it, chances that both sides are going to give it a rest are slim at best. And you're right, hate education exacerbates violence and isn't making things better. But don't blame Arab education and leave it at that; you know full well Zionism isn't exactly calling for cooperation with Arabs. Regardless, I've become mutual on the issue...maybe I'll blame either side once or twice but I find that caring about this issue is useless. You'll end up giving yourself a headache, so let politics take its war and hope to God you don't live too see the ultimate event (again, you know what I'm talking about) that will proceed the useless attempts to found peace. Well, actually you are kinda wrong, Zionists wanted to live at peace with the Arabs, they bought lands legally and such, and even they hired Arabs as a guards, but then they started (the arabs) killing and looting- the "Hashomer" (the Guard) movement has created (this is the first form of the IDF you can say) to guard the fields. after that you are talking about the "pogroms" that were in 1921, 1929, and the "great arab rebellion" of 36-39, and you must admit, that til than jews where only sitting on a lands which they bought legally. after that there was several was which changed the borders. at the deceleration of indepedence of israel it says something like "lsrael is giving the hand of peace to our arabs neighbors", if "zionists" where so war moggers, why whould they do that? i said it before and i'll say it again, zionism is dead, nowadays most of the people live here, live here not because of zionism but because this is were they've born and this was their home from the start. btw, i work in a computer store in my town, and yesterday i sold a laptop to a nice guy from Taybe, i've asked him about how his town look like (apearance and such), he said it look like any arab village (but large, it is referred as a city), i've asked him why this is so neglected, and he said that this is how arab village looked like, he never blaimed the israeli government. (he is of course an israeli citizen). Hamas' opinion is the last that should matter. IIRC they were created and supported by Iran. They don't represent Palestinians, as far as I'm concerned. of course it should matter, they may have been funded from Iran, but they still they government of the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffye.Memon Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Val can you please tell me that hamas won't recognize Israel no matter what or they want Israel to go back and withdraw from the land it occupied after the Arab war !?? can you give me some links to official hamas websites(if you have) so i can read more about there demands ?? and if they demanding same borders as they were before war, and then they will recognize Israel then I am with them !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 All i know is that i'm just sick of the petty fighting, why you can't live together i don't know. It's like two little kids fighting over a toy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRoling Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Religious beliefs and claims of holy land are the main reasons. Eventually, Hamas will get wiped out, break apart into smaller sections due to inner party squabbles, or be invaded by foreign powers again and completely starved out. The U.S. also has been known to fund Arab extremists who oppose Hamas, including some Iranian groups. Nothing like fighting Hamas with their own crazy extremists against them. Fact is, fighting them with people who know how they work benefits most of the nations in opposition of Hamas. Israel probably loves this because while another extremist group takes some mustard out of Hamas, they can prepare to bulldoze them at the right opportunity. But of course, this is all a hope. In reality, Hamas is unwilling to help the situation. As long as children are raised under Hamas beliefs that they will never recognize Israel, the belief will always be there, and the fighting will never end. Bunker down for the long haul, as if you needed to be told that if you live there, it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Religious beliefs and claims of holy land are the main reasons. Yea, completely absurd, but all in the name of mythology i guess.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_rk Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Val can you please tell me that hamas won't recognize Israel no matter what or they want Israel to go back and withdraw from the land it occupied after the Arab war !??can you give me some links to official hamas websites(if you have) so i can read more about there demands ?? and if they demanding same borders as they were before war, and then they will recognize Israel then I am with them !! you don't need any official except the Hamas charter... just read it Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: ?Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.? From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? ?And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.? Sura 2 (the Cow), veThere is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.had. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: ?The people of Syria are Allah?s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.? (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.) this is only small very small part of it http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#The_Covenant_of_Hamas even al-jazira claims: Hamas uses political activities to pursue its goal of establishing an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel and the secular Palestinian Authority http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=10217 read it all this is not about living side by side with israel, this is about replacing israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts