Why Apple Enthusiasts Are Wrong About Windows 8

[BajiRav]

Time TechlandTime Techland

Why Apple Enthusiasts Are Wrong About Windows 8

On Wednesday evening, Microsoft showed the first public glimpses of Windows 8, including a touch screen interface that's unlike any version of Windows we've ever seen. And already, Apple enthusiasts are chiming in with disdain.

Microsoft just doesn't get it, they say. Windows 8 drops the ball by supporting both tablet and legacy Windows applications, instead of throwing everything out and starting a new tablet OS from scratch. The iPad is so perfect because it doesn't try to be a Mac, they argue. Letting people run Excel on a tablet just isn't "elegant." No, it's a fundamentally flawed understanding of what makes Apple's tablet so magical and revolutionary, they protest.

Baloney. Microsoft doesn't have to copy Apple's strategy for Windows 8 to succeed. In fact, copying Apple would be a fatal mistake. Instead, Microsoft should be charting new territory with Windows 8, and that's exactly what's happening.

In supporting the old, familiar Windows interface and the new tablet experience on a single device, Microsoft has laid the groundwork for modular computing -- that is, a single device that transforms to suit the user's needs. Want to lounge around with some e-books or videos? The tablet interface makes it possible. Want to get some work done? Plug in a mouse and keyboard and go crazy with the desktop version of Excel. It's the best of both worlds in one piece of hardware.

At Macworld, Jason Snell argues that this is a risky approach. If the iPad ran Mac apps, he says, developers probably wouldn't have bothered creating all-new apps for the touch screen. I'm not convinced that the same will be true for Windows 8, with its huge potential customer base. There will be demand for touch-based apps simply because of how many people are already using Windows. And besides, Microsoft has proven willing to grow its app ecosystem by paying developers.

I also don't buy the idea that Microsoft needed to show a version of Office built from the ground-up for tablets, as John Gruber argues. While it'd be nice if Microsoft created touch-based versions of its productivity software -- and don't rule it out just yet -- there's only so much work you can do with a touch screen. Trust me, I've tried to blog on my iPad countless times, but I can never get farther than tapping out a rough draft and switching to a laptop to finish the job. It's not just the mouse and keyboard that makes the difference. It's the little things, like keyboard shortcuts, right clicks and easy access to a file manager.

What Microsoft demonstrated on Wednesday is exactly what I want in a computer -- a lightweight tablet UI that's meant for casual computing and a powerful, classic Windows that allows me to work. I'm tired of carrying around my iPad and laptop together. I want one device that does everything.

That's not to say Microsoft will pull it off. The company has set some ambitious goals for Windows 8, and a lot can go wrong. But I'm not about to dismiss what Microsoft is doing because it doesn't follow in Apple's footsteps. For Microsoft, playing copycat would only solidify Apple's lead in the post-PC era.

Daring Fireball's response

[XIII]

This is a good article but meaningless. Why would MS need to listen to iSheeps in the first place ? It's not like they will ever consider buying the MS Tablet when it comes out.

I stopped reading the moment I saw the words: "magical and revolutionary." Who the **** invented this "magical" nonsense ? It's not magic, it's technology. Make me start wondering if SJ is really a witch himself.

[DukeEsquire]

What a flamebait title...

I'm an Apple fan and I liked what I saw with Windows 8. Does that mean I'm wrong as well and that Windows 8 is actually awful?

*PARADOX*

[alexalex]

They are right, past and present shows that no one wants a Windows tablet/slate. Win8 with wp7 tiles won't change this attitude in the future.

[BajiRav]

What a flamebait title...

I'm an Apple fan and I liked what I saw with Windows 8. Does that mean I'm wrong as well and that Windows 8 is actually awful?

*PARADOX*

I saw these two articles (3 if you open Macworld) and thought it was a nice contrasting viewpoint and had to pick one up (instead of two separate topics). I guess only flamebait is the macworld article, other two are pretty ok. Gruber's reaction is not unexpected (he is a dedicated fanboy) and he misses everything about what Microsoft is trying to do with Win8.

[Shadrack]

I would consider myself an Apple Enthusiast and I'm very enthusiastic about the direction Windows 8 is going. At my job Windows software reigns supreme. I could see a LOT of potential in increase of productivity by using a Windows 8 tablet. Not so much with my iPad which is more of a media consumption device (that's not a bad thing).

But yeah, total flamebait title. Why is it that if you own an Apple product and enjoy using it then it is automatically assumed that you hate Microsoft and Google and don't want any products at all from them? These sorts of flame war threads thrive as broad generalizations of "the other side". Its like a virtual high school football rivalry and the big game is homecoming week.

[Melfster]

They are right, past and present shows that no one wants a Windows tablet/slate. Win8 with wp7 tiles won't change this attitude in the future.

I wouldn't say that I would say that ....Windows is definitively going to make windows phone 7 sales higher because it is familiar user interface. My guess is Windows 8 sales going dwarf android, ios, and os x.

[Shadrack]

They are right, past and present shows that no one wants a Windows tablet/slate. Win8 with wp7 tiles won't change this attitude in the future.

I think that touch input as oppose to stylus input may be a game changer here... we will have to wait and see.

[SMELTN]

I must admit. I am a lifelong Windows user but own a chromebook, iPad, iPhone, and Android phone, and LOVE certain things about each, but after seeing Windows 8 this week, I was VERY turned off by it, to the point I told my wife we are now moving to a Mac...But now the more I think about it, and of course we are in very early stages, I really think its a very smart way they are doing it. Best of both worlds type thing. You can appeal to the people that want the tablet/mobile interface, and also to the users who want the standard windows 7 interface. I think its perfect. The problem is, programmers are going to have to make applications in both and that is the problem. I do however HATE the windows phone 7 interface

[George P Global Moderator]

They are right, past and present shows that no one wants a Windows tablet/slate. Win8 with wp7 tiles won't change this attitude in the future.

Don't state your opinion as fact, because you don't know what will happen in the future. The past doesn't mean much at this point because we're looking at something different userability wise. The only thing that held back Windows tablets from consumer sales (though they're used elsewhere in select areas often with select, custom UIs/apps in full screen mode to a good degree) is the legacy/classic KB+mouse Windows UI. It's not smooth and finger friendly, that's not the case anymore.

Even in this very early look at the new UI it's very fast and smooth, and very finger friendly. The people who are crying "legacy is still there" or "it's just a layer on top" or w/e don't fully get it at this point. They're wrong, and it's been said to death by MS and others. This isn't some new layer ontop of windows, it's the shell, it's explorer.exe. It's what you see when you press the Winkey on your KB (unless you change it or select the old start menu which I figure will still be an option). It's not an app running ontop, it's the desktop, it's full Windows. Why in gods name should they make a new OS for just tablets? Or why in gods name should they just take the phone OS and blowit up to fit on a 10" screen? There's no need to do that when you already have a full OS with all the mature APIs and frameworks and hardware support that has been tested and is known to work for years that can work just as well on any tablet now?

The fact is the only problem was the UI and now that's not a problem anymore. Apps will run, new touch apps will be made, older apps are still supported for when you want to do real work with a KB+mouse, it all just works. It's what people want, not something that does a few things that might get updated or else you're forced to by the v2 for another $500 to get new features. No thanks.

[BajiRav]

Don't state your opinion as fact, because you don't know what will happen in the future. The past doesn't mean much at this point because we're looking at something different userability wise. The only thing that held back Windows tablets from consumer sales (though they're used elsewhere in select areas often with select, custom UIs/apps in full screen mode to a good degree) is the legacy/classic KB+mouse Windows UI. It's not smooth and finger friendly, that's not the case anymore.

Even in this very early look at the new UI it's very fast and smooth, and very finger friendly. The people who are crying "legacy is still there" or "it's just a layer on top" or w/e don't fully get it at this point. They're wrong, and it's been said to death by MS and others. This isn't some new layer ontop of windows, it's the shell, it's explorer.exe. It's what you see when you press the Winkey on your KB (unless you change it or select the old start menu which I figure will still be an option). It's not an app running ontop, it's the desktop, it's full Windows. Why in gods name should they make a new OS for just tablets? Or why in gods name should they just take the phone OS and blowit up to fit on a 10" screen? There's no need to do that when you already have a full OS with all the mature APIs and frameworks and hardware support that has been tested and is known to work for years that can work just as well on any tablet now?

The fact is the only problem was the UI and now that's not a problem anymore. Apps will run, new touch apps will be made, older apps are still supported for when you want to do real work with a KB+mouse, it all just works. It's what people want, not something that does a few things that might get updated or else you're forced to by the v2 for another $500 to get new features. No thanks.

Fun fact: When iOS (then iPhone OS) was first showed, Apple stressed on the fact that is just Mac OS X running on iPhone. Steve Jobs had a special slide or two for the sole purpose.

p.s. In the taiwan demo, it seems if you press windows key once, it opens the new start but if you press winkey again, it switches to old UI/start.

[Rudy]

Fun fact: When iOS (then iPhone OS) was first showed, Apple stressed on the fact that is just Mac OS X running on iPhone. Steve Jobs had a special slide or two for the sole purpose.

p.s. In the taiwan demo, it seems if you press windows key once, it opens the new start but if you press winkey again, it switches to old UI/start.

iOS is based on OSX, there's no one trying to deny that :/

[George P Global Moderator]

iOS is based on OSX, there's no one trying to deny that :/

No ones trying to deny it but then on the other hand why are people asking for a new OS just for tablets etc when you don't have to do it that way? Win7 was scaled down to fit on netbooks and it works good on them, now we have ARM SoCs with dual cores at 1.2Ghz and even the new TI CPU that's at 1.8Ghz, with 1GB ram or even more come 2012, there is nothing hardware wise holding you back from using Windows, a full OS on a small tablet/slate device.

[Lachlan]

They are right, past and present shows that no one wants a Windows tablet/slate. Win8 with wp7 tiles won't change this attitude in the future.

Why do you say no one wants a windows tablet? because it has low relative sales volume to the competition?

Using you exact logic you could say that no one wants to buy an apple computer.. because they are old like 5% of the entire market.. I am pretty sure there are more then 5% of the tablets in the world running windows.. my parents have 2 (they are the older convertible ones) and my brothers both had one..

[Aethec]

No ones trying to deny it but then on the other hand why are people asking for a new OS just for tablets etc when you don't have to do it that way? Win7 was scaled down to fit on netbooks and it works good on them, now we have ARM SoCs with dual cores at 1.2Ghz and even the new TI CPU that's at 1.8Ghz, with 1GB ram or even more come 2012, there is nothing hardware wise holding you back from using Windows, a full OS on a small tablet/slate device.

Because of the "Windows is a huge and bloated mess" myth.

Also, because people will bash MS no matter what MS does.

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

So on the one hand, Apple derrides MS for having an OS that they purpose for both handheld use as well as dekstop use.

And on the other, Apple make a song and dance about how "iOS IS OSX".

Yeah, ok...

[Teebor]

Make me start wondering if SJ is really a witch himself.

But how do you know he is a witch?

They are right, past and present shows that no one wants a Windows tablet/slate. Win8 with wp7 tiles won't change this attitude in the future.

I would love a Windows tablet, its the answer to everything I currently have to use a laptop to do and an iPad can't do. I have found that I can do pretty much everything I want on the Honeycomb android tablets though so I am now looking at getting one of those

BUT if a Windows tablet that was small, light, and had a good battery life suddenly appeared overnight I would change my mind.

Windows 8 might possibly fix that, only time will tell

[Max Norris]

I would love a Windows tablet, its the answer to everything I currently have to use a laptop to do and an iPad can't do. I have found that I can do pretty much everything I want on the Honeycomb android tablets though so I am now looking at getting one of those

BUT if a Windows tablet that was small, light, and had a good battery life suddenly appeared overnight I would change my mind.

Same, I've been really tempted to get an Android, but after seeing what's coming think I'm going to wait until Windows 8 goes gold, see if it lives up to what I hope it is. Been waiting this long, a little longer won't kill me.

But how do you know he is a witch?

Well he turned me into a newt!

[alexalex]

I think that touch input as oppose to stylus input may be a game changer here... we will have to wait and see.

There are already touch input Windows tablets by HP and others and I didn't see any queues in front of stores.

But how do you know he is a witch?

I would love a Windows tablet, its the answer to everything I currently have to use a laptop to do and an iPad can't do. I have found that I can do pretty much everything I want on the Honeycomb android tablets though so I am now looking at getting one of those

BUT if a Windows tablet that was small, light, and had a good battery life suddenly appeared overnight I would change my mind.

Windows 8 might possibly fix that, only time will tell

Why wait ? buy the HP slate 500 PC for just $799, today.

[greenwizard88]

So on the one hand, Apple derrides MS for having an OS that they purpose for both handheld use as well as dekstop use.

And on the other, Apple make a song and dance about how "iOS IS OSX".

Yeah, ok...

Exactly. Read 1984 if you don't think it's possible.

It's a double plus good book! ;)

[Ayepecks]

I love how everyone acts as if there's only two options at the opposite extremes of the spectrum -- it's either absolutely OMG WTF amazing, or it's absolutely OMG WTF bad.

Sorry, I don't adhere to such silly beliefs. I simply don't see how someone can't like what Microsoft is attempting, as there are numerous unique elements to this operating system, especially from a tablet perspective. At the same time, the Apple fanboy articles do bring up legitimate points. Problem is they just overexaggerate them to an extreme point of view that makes no sense.

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

Exactly. Read 1984 if you don't think it's possible.

I have. Fail to see the relevance to my comment of Apple preaching one thing then another dependant upon the...

Aaaaaaah, you mean how Apple basically change facts at a whim?

[Teebor]

Why wait ? buy the HP slate 500 PC for just $799, today.

I don't think its available in the UK yet sadly :( or at least I can't find a retailer who has one

[Melfster]

There are already touch input Windows tablets by HP and others and I didn't see any queues in front of stores.

Why wait ? buy the HP slate 500 PC for just $799, today.

All of these are not ready for prime time. Intel's processor are just not as power efficient as arm. But next year Intel, AMD are going have processors that close the chasm. Right now nobody is succeeding except for Apple in the tablet space. Sales of the both the playbook and android based tablets have been very disappointing.

[fenderMarky]

They are right, past and present shows that no one wants a Windows tablet/slate. Win8 with wp7 tiles won't change this attitude in the future.

The truth is that nobody wants tablets, but they want something just to be cool... and i call them loser (or emos).