Want to buy a used 2009 Audi A3

[deck]

I'm starting to consider replacing my aging 2003 Suzuki Aerio and I want to upgrade. I want to upgrade big time, to a use Audi A3.

Some local info: I'm in Montreal, Quebec.

I've been looking over local dealers and I'm finding 2008 Premium A3's hovering between $20,000 to $25,000 with good mileage (around 50,000km).

Ideally I would like to get a 2009 model, since Audi upgraded the A3 a bit. I'm finding those models in a similar price range (but tending to be more expensive, obviously).

How much do you think a premium A3 (with or without Quattro, with reasonable mileage - 20,000km/year driven) would go for at auction? Dealers can certify the car but you pay a huge premium when buying from them. If you have the auction alternative available, it seems like it might be better.

[Tom Gru]

Buy an A4 Avant, honestly ... A3 is just a golf ... engine layout and everything else is very 'typical' car, front heavy ... A4 has engine and transmission in center of car for best center of gravity and handling. A4 is really where Audi starts. The 09 A3 you are looking at is still a 7 year old car, whereas B7 A4's were released in 06.

[deck]

Buy an A4 Avant, honestly ... A3 is just a golf ... engine layout and everything else is very 'typical' car, front heavy ... A4 has engine and transmission in center of car for best center of gravity and handling. A4 is really where Audi starts. The 09 A3 you are looking at is still a 7 year old car, whereas B7 A4's were released in 06.

I understand what you're saying. However, there are a few things about the A3 whichI really like that the A4 (to my knowledge) does not have:

1. It's small. I like small cars. The 200hp engine and 207lbs of torque will make it go fast for less.

2. DSG transmission. I wants me my dual-clutch and paddle shifters. (I drive standard now, btw; but the conept of dual-clutch and paddels I really like).

3. It's less expensive compared to a comparable A4. I'm on a budget and I would rather spend the same money on a 'newer' A3 than an 'older' A4 (in actual age and not model year age).

4. It's more like a GTI than a vanilla Golf. And the GTI I like, but the A3 is nicer (in my opinion).

I understand that the current model of the A3 has effectively been around since 2006 (earlier if consider that the 2006 update was more of a facelift rather than a redesign), but model version is less a factor to me than feature set and quality. Even if they replace the A3 next year, I won't be able to afford the new one so I will be stuck with the current model. Similarly for the A4. The current model is unaffordable for me, even used, and the previous model is not what I'm looking for.

[_neutrino Veteran]

lol aging its only a 2k3 my truck is a '99 and im planning on driving it till it falls apart lol.

[Tom Gru]

I understand what you're saying. However, there are a few things about the A3 whichI really like that the A4 (to my knowledge) does not have:

1. It's small. I like small cars. The 200hp engine and 207lbs of torque will make it go fast for less.

2. DSG transmission. I wants me my dual-clutch and paddle shifters. (I drive standard now, btw; but the conept of dual-clutch and paddels I really like).

3. It's less expensive compared to a comparable A4. I'm on a budget and I would rather spend the same money on a 'newer' A3 than an 'older' A4 (in actual age and not model year age).

4. It's more like a GTI than a vanilla Golf. And the GTI I like, but the A3 is nicer (in my opinion).

I understand that the current model of the A3 has effectively been around since 2006 (earlier if consider that the 2006 update was more of a facelift rather than a redesign), but model version is less a factor to me than feature set and quality. Even if they replace the A3 next year, I won't be able to afford the new one so I will be stuck with the current model. Similarly for the A4. The current model is unaffordable for me, even used, and the previous model is not what I'm looking for.

Well you seem to know what you want :) and I respect that a lot ... but when the next gen A3 comes out next year it will significantly depreciate all current A3's. I was in same boat as you, eventually decided with the Avant but that's because family is expanding; you may not be there yet :p ... I did a few minor suspension updates (Rs4 sway bar and structs+springs) and my Avant feels as lively as ever (I came from a e46 M3). Since you already drive a stick ... PLEASE STICK WITH IT ... the A4 has the slickest transmission I have ever driven, it is truly a joy but to each their own. a DSG A3 won't be 'cheap'. Anyhoo, a 07 A4 6-speed should be similarly priced to 09 DSG A3 and it is significantly 'more car' but for sure not as 'compact', and if I was younger I wouldn't take my own advice ... hehe... either way good luck. Do test drive both side by side, you WILL notice a difference and be surprised (if you haven't already)

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

How much do you think a premium A3 (with or without Quattro, with reasonable mileage - 20,000km/year driven) would go for at auction? Dealers can certify the car but you pay a huge premium when buying from them. If you have the auction alternative available, it seems like it might be better.

Definitely go the auction route. The price will be about 20% less than a similar dealer certified model.

Just find a good broker with the license and pay no more than $500-1000 commission for the deal.

[punklefish]

I can't help with the decision on whether to go to auction or with a dealer but I just got an 06 A3 S-Line with the 3.2 and Quattro from a dealer (I know, I know) and absolutely love it. It was a bit more expensive than I would want to spend on an 06 but the smile it puts on my face when I drive it is totally worth it :D and it was only at 60,000 km so it still looks and feels brand new. Good luck on your search!

I also wanted to add that the DSG is definitely a different beast than driving a manual or an automatic. It's a fantastic transmission and can shift faster than you can take your hand off the paddle but I still miss the good old manual some times. Ah well, it was worth it to trade up to a v6 and quattro :)

[revvo]

I also wanted to add that the DSG is definitely a different beast than driving a manual or an automatic. It's a fantastic transmission and can shift faster than you can take your hand off the paddle but I still miss the good old manual some times. Ah well, it was worth it to trade up to a v6 and quattro :)

If you ask me, unless it's a Supercar-grade dual clutch paddle shifter transmission like those found in Ferraris and Zondas, then I don't care if the transmission can shift faster than I can.

For street use, performance difference in shifting speeds is irrelevant in the application of a daily driver. With the manual you can heel & toe and rev match on your own and have fun using all 3 pedals like a boss.

[deck]

My desire for paddle shifters comes from driving a standard for so long. I like the concept of having an automatic (particularly for stop and go traffic and highway congestion), but which I can then switch to a manual mode that gives me more control when I want to open up on the highway or force downshifts. Since it's not an automatic gearbox (which can simulate, to some extent, what I'm talking about) I will have the power and control I want, when I want it.

And paddle shifters are cool. I may be jumping onto the paddle fad, but I don't care. The car will be 4 to 6 years which, in the grand scheme, is not too long.

[revvo]

Those are perfectly good reasons to get a car with a manumatic transmission. The issue now remains finding the car with paddle shifters that work. If they do actually work in the A3, then by all means go for it :cool:

A lot of cars out there offer "manumatic" transmissions that are useless because they'll sometimes shift for you in manual mode. I have a feeling that it's typically higher end cars that have transmissions that actually give you full control in manual mode, like the M3's DCT.

[tomjol]

On the DSG, my beef with them is that they never have an appropriate mode. D is too lethargic, S is too energtic, whenever I'm in a DSG car I always wish for a mode somewhere in the middle - i.e. one that keeps the revs in an appropriate range so it doesn't have to double-downshift when you put your foot down, but equally doesn't sit on the red line any time you come off the gas.

Buy an A4 Avant, honestly ... A3 is just a golf ... engine layout and everything else is very 'typical' car, front heavy ... A4 has engine and transmission in center of car for best center of gravity and handling. A4 is really where Audi starts. The 09 A3 you are looking at is still a 7 year old car, whereas B7 A4's were released in 06.

I...er...the engine in an A4 is not in the center of the car, it is in the front of the car, probably as far forward as they could manage in the usual Audi fashion.

[rajputwarrior]

don't audi's tend to go to complete **** once they hit about 90/100 k on the engine? i would avoid them like the plague.

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

don't audi's tend to go to complete **** once they hit about 90/100 k on the engine? i would avoid them like the plague.

WHAT? you've been lied to, sir!

######'s engines are ones of the most reliable in the World! Audi's father, August Horch, was an engineer and a pioneer of the automobile industry having built his first auto in 1901! He had worked with Karl Benz before that.

Audi/VW's engines have been praised by the industry and won numerous awards for innovation and reliability!

In the most recent history, check out the annual winners of the International Engine of the Year Award where ######'s legendary 1.8T/2.0T engine won consecutively for five years from 2005 to 2009! Audi's newest 2.5L T 5 cyl has been the king in it's class in the last two years!

Audi's 6.0 liter V12 turbo deisel was a world's first and remains one of the most powerful engines with a wooping 1000 newton per meter torque!

Audi's won numerous racing completions (rallies, Le Mans) thanks to it's expertise...

I could go on and on...

p.s. it's no brainer to ruin even the most reliable engine...feed it cheap fuel, don't maintain it properly,...in winter, rev it high up as soon as you start it despite the fact that the engine hasn't been warmed up enough...it's so easy! The problem is that people do this all the time knowingly or unknowingly and then they complain about the quality when it's clearly their fault, not the manufacturer's.

p.s. #2. If the aforementioned isn't convincing enough for you, check out this link too for a list of used Audi's for sale with up to 500,000 km on them and still running!!! To put it in perspective, Earth's equatorial circumference is 40,000 km - so these cars have virtually circled the globe 12 times!

[deck]

I suppose my next question is this:

How much (in the Canadian market, since cars in the US are stupid cheap in general) would an A3 with the following specs cost at auction? (20% less, as noted earlier, is a good indicator but I would like to consider some actual prices if they are available).

2009 model year

2.0T with Premium package (equivalent to Premium Plus in the US); effectively, fully loaded minus the S-Line package. I don't need the sunroof either.

DSG transmission

with or without Quattro

Under 75000km

[revvo]

WHAT? you've been lied to, sir!

######'s engines are ones of the most reliable in the World! Audi's father, August Horch, was an engineer and a pioneer of the automobile industry having built his first auto in 1901! He had worked with Karl Benz before that.

Volks engines are generally quite reliable, but its founder has little to do with how the company is today. If that were the case, Honda would still be making fun cars :/

[rajputwarrior]

WHAT? you've been lied to, sir!

no im right... uncle had an a6 wagon. soon as it hit 80k it was in the shop. it was so bad that Audi actually gave him a full refund for the car 2 and ahalf years after he bought it because it was in the shop for 8 months out of the next 12.

also

The 2011 Audi A3 reliability score of 5.0 out of 10 is the Predicted Reliability rating provided by J.D. Power and Associates. This score is based on trending the past three years of historical initial quality and dependability data from J.D. Power's automotive studies, specifically the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) and the Initial Quality Study (IQS).

Audi gives the 2011 A3 a new vehicle limited warranty that's good for four years or 50,000 miles. Audi also offers twelve years of protection against corrosion. As a bonus, the first scheduled maintenance after the first 5,000 miles or 12 months is free.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Audi_A3/Reliability/

these are for the 2009 model below...

audi's and VW are **** now. i don't care about power. i'm glad they are efficient. but who cares. no one buys audi for power...

in summary... junk. i appreciate that the older generations are great, but not the newer ones... as i got the handi down 86 jetta from my dad that ran like gold even at 350 k on it.

[Tom Gru]

On the DSG, my beef with them is that they never have an appropriate mode. D is too lethargic, S is too energtic, whenever I'm in a DSG car I always wish for a mode somewhere in the middle - i.e. one that keeps the revs in an appropriate range so it doesn't have to double-downshift when you put your foot down, but equally doesn't sit on the red line any time you come off the gas.

I...er...the engine in an A4 is not in the center of the car, it is in the front of the car, probably as far forward as they could manage in the usual Audi fashion.

... now you're being 'funny' ... the A4, like BMW, Mercedes. & most luxury sports sedans positions the longitudinal engine so crankshaft is parallel to length of car, hence the mount of a transmission sits dead center and doesn't have to be compact like in most 4 bangers & odd entry level v6's

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

I suppose my next question is this:

How much (in the Canadian market, since cars in the US are stupid cheap in general) would an A3 with the following specs cost at auction? (20% less, as noted earlier, is a good indicator but I would like to consider some actual prices if they are available).

2009 model year

2.0T with Premium package (equivalent to Premium Plus in the US); effectively, fully loaded minus the S-Line package. I don't need the sunroof either.

DSG transmission

with or without Quattro

Under 75000km

Since it's a closed auction, the final sales numbers are private and, naturally, they are unavailable beforehand.

Nevertheless, your car shouldn't cost more than $20,000-22,000 (including broker's commission).

Do you know any auto auction brokers? If you don't, you can visit a few local used car dealerships and talk to them. These guys have the license and you can try negotiating a deal with them. Some will be strongly against it and will try to rip you off by offering you the retail show-room price - don't fall for that. Tell them exactly what you want. Make sure to specify that you need a green line car (no accidents) and you're only willing to pay $500-1000 commission tops. The car will never have to use their precious show-room space, so make it clear that you won't pay the retail price :)

Of course, it's best to find people who specialize in these kinds of auction deals.

no im right... uncle had an a6 wagon. soon as it hit 80k it was in the shop. it was so bad that Audi actually gave him a full refund for the car 2 and ahalf years after he bought it because it was in the shop for 8 months out of the next 12.

Sure, you are /sarcasm :laugh:

I feel bad for your uncle, although I don't fully believe this anecdotal story of yours. The only thing you've convinced me of is that Audi's warranty is reliable since your uncle got a refund after all, didn't he? ;) :D

Besides, do you just trust all authorized service dealers? Just keep in mind that they're operated independently as a franchise, only interested in profits, and, generally, make more bucks from the service dept. than new sales.

Did your uncle meet the mechanic, did he talk directly to him? I doubt that since a rep takes care of customer service. In that case, how do you know that they didn't screw up? What was so complicated there that the car needed 8 months of service? Do they lack experience in fixing cars or something? :laugh: Have they had proper official Audi training? Even if they had to wait for some rare part from Germany, it shouldn't have taken that long...unless there had been a car accident before and some bureaucratic delay with the insurance caused the delay. So, was the car ever in a car accident?

Now, since it seems that personal stories are more credible to you, my current 2006 A4 2.0TFSI Quattro with 109,000 km on it should have failed 10,000 km ago! The only thing I've had done to the engine outside of regular maintenance so far is changing a PCV valve ($90), its gasket ($20), and the valve cover gasket ($30) + $100 for the labour.

In the past, my old folks used to own a 1995 Audi A6 and sold it in 2000 with 150,000 km - no major repairs.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Audi_A3/Reliability/

these are for the 2009 model below...

audi's and VW are **** now. i don't care about power. i'm glad they are efficient. but who cares. no one buys audi for power...

JD Power's rating is laughable. I always get a kick out of each new annual rating.Last year Kia was more reliable than Audi (I have no grudge against Kia as I'm myself a proud owner of one), and this year Chrysler is more reliable than Audi :laugh: and GMC, Hyundai, and Subaru are rated higher than BMW - the rating is such a joke.

Just like credit rating agencies (S&P, Moody's) are a political tool to preserve American interests abroad (dollar hegemony), JD Power is another political tool acting in the interests of the American industry.

in summary... junk. i appreciate that the older generations are great, but not the newer ones... as i got the handi down 86 jetta from my dad that ran like gold even at 350 k on it.

This is laughable :laugh: Newer gen VW/Audi's are by all means better than their predecessors, surely they aren't worse... In that used cars list I linked in my previous post, you can find mid-2000's Audis with 300,000+ km on them..like this beautiful white 2006 A6 Avant 2.7TDI with 487,000 km and still running!

---

VW Group is simply the strongest, the most innovative player in the auto industry in this day and age. I don't have to resort to fanboyism because the facts speak for themselves. It's the most profitable, the most successful, and the most diverse auto consortium today spanning product offerings from mass market brands such as VW, Seat, and Skoda to luxury Audi to exclusive brands such as Bentley, Bugatti, and Lamborghini, and to heavy trucks MAN and SCANIA. In 2010, even before merging with Porsche, VW Group netted 6.8 billion euros (9.1 billion dollars @ 1.35) vs GM's $6.1B vs Toyota's $5B.

Audi's sales have been growing year after year setting new sales records. If they make unreliable engines - then why do more and more people buy Audis with each new year?

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

no one buys audi for power...

Say this to Audi RS or ABT owners :rofl:

[revvo]

VW Group is simply the strongest, the most innovative player in the auto industry in this day and age. I don't have to resort to fanboyism because the facts speak for themselves. It's the most profitable, the most successful, and the most diverse auto consortium today spanning product offerings from mass market brands such as VW, Seat, and Skoda to luxury Audi to exclusive brands such as Bentley, Bugatti, and Lamborghini, and to heavy trucks MAN and SCANIA. In 2010, even before merging with Porsche, VW Group netted 6.8 billion euros (9.1 billion dollars @ 1.35) vs GM's $6.1B vs Toyota's $5B.

If that whole paragraph doesn't sound like fanboyism, then I don't know what is. Besides, you just explained to yourself why VW is so profitable, listing all the brands they own. Older Volks are renown for having electronics gremlins. The engines you are right, they are quite reliable (even the VR6), but it's everything else that you have to worry about, and that also goes for most car companies.

I could write an equally factual impressive sounding paragraph for Nissan, Honda, Toyota (pre 90s times) or BMW but I won't make any lies because I'm biased and love those makes.

[Mouettus]

I just bought a new 2011 GTI this winter and I've looked at numerous used A4 and A3's. A4s are downright ugly until 2009 (when they redesinged the model). I really miss not having the quattro system tho which is spectacular!

That being said, I'll NEVER buy another engine than the 2.0T (or whatever equivalent comes next). Economic and peppy. Reliable as ever.

If that whole paragraph doesn't sound like fanboyism, then I don't know what is. Besides, you just explained to yourself why VW is so profitable, listing all the brands they own. Older Volks are renown for having electronics gremlins. The engines you are right, they are quite reliable (even the VR6), but it's everything else that you have to worry about, and that also goes for most car companies.

I could write an equally factual impressive sounding paragraph for Nissan, Honda, Toyota (pre 90s times) or BMW but I won't make any lies because I'm biased and love those makes.

VW had problems only until 2004-2005ish. They're getting better and better now. Fact is, I've been looking at EVERY car company in a decent price range and VW is the only vehicule I got in that screamed QUALITY.

[rajputwarrior]

JD Power's rating is laughable. I always get a kick out of each new annual rating.Last year Kia was more reliable than Audi (I have no grudge against Kia as I'm myself a proud owner of one), and this year Chrysler is more reliable than Audi :laugh: and GMC, Hyundai, and Subaru are rated higher than BMW - the rating is such a joke.

im not trying to hate on your faboy car crush, but do you have any other companies saying differently about audi's? sure their engines are great, but what about the rest? Why can't Kia's and Hyundiai and other asian cart makers be more reliable? (which most of them are) That's just your bias saying Kia's are crap. They are actually good cars now, same with hyundai. just because they don't have the 50-60 year rep, doesn't mean they are bad. profits don't equal reliability. that's like saying transofmers 3 is a good movie because it made a lot of money...

If that whole paragraph doesn't sound like fanboyism, then I don't know what is. Besides, you just explained to yourself why VW is so profitable, listing all the brands they own. Older Volks are renown for having electronics gremlins. The engines you are right, they are quite reliable (even the VR6), but it's everything else that you have to worry about, and that also goes for most car companies.

I could write an equally factual impressive sounding paragraph for Nissan, Honda, Toyota (pre 90s times) or BMW but I won't make any lies because I'm biased and love those makes.

this.

[revvo]

I just bought a new 2011 GTI this winter

...

Reliable as ever.

Of course it's reliable, it's a 2011. When you'll sell it, ask the 2nd owner how it's running.

[Mouettus]

Of course it's reliable, it's a 2011. When you'll sell it, ask the 2nd owner how it's running.

those 2 sentences have nothing to do with each other. that's why they were separated into 2 different paragraphs!!!!!!

Haters gonna hate...

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

If that whole paragraph doesn't sound like fanboyism, then I don't know what is.

I could write an equally factual impressive sounding paragraph for Nissan, Honda, Toyota (pre 90s times) or BMW but I won't make any lies because I'm biased and love those makes.

It's not fanboyism, blind liking for something with a negative connotation, if it's backed up with hard data, the facts. And no, you cannot claim that any other auto group excels in all those areas (profitability, volumes, market share, diversity, reliability, innovation) at the same time (except for BMW Group and Daimler AG).

You cannot substitute VW for Nissan and write a similar paragraph - that would be lying because the facts wouldn't support your claim as, for example, Nissan makes nearly twice as less cars as VW Group does (>4 mill vs. 7.1+ mil).

im not trying to hate on your faboy car crush, but do you have any other companies saying differently about audi's? sure their engines are great, but what about the rest? Why can't Kia's and Hyundiai and other asian cart makers be more reliable? (which most of them are) That's just your bias saying Kia's are crap. They are actually good cars now, same with hyundai. just because they don't have the 50-60 year rep, doesn't mean they are bad. profits don't equal reliability. that's like saying transofmers 3 is a good movie because it made a lot of money...

Reading and comprehension fail?

I am a Kia owner (2003 Sedona). I never said they were crap. I know they are reliable!

However, the technological gap between Kia and VW is like 20 years at least. And you know what? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Not all companies have to innovate. Some just use proven, tested, reliable technologies and this becomes their thing - their edge. Kia/Hyundai are like Dell Inc. They spend very little on in-house R&D. They don't have to be the first to present the very latest technological thing.