official Diablo III

[Nagisan]

Now I can't speak for exactly how D3 communicates, but I would assume that D3 does not communicate in plaintext. I am not saying hacks are impossible with the current set up, I am saying they are easier when you have both the client and server software.

It is encrypted, but from what I understand, the method of decryption must be included with the game client, meaning hackers can learn how to decrypt that info, then do so, and you're back to square one. Sure it's easier to understand what is going on when you already have both ends, but it doesn't mean it will be easier to create hacks for it.

Dealing with user complaints is only half the problem. The other half is that users complain in the first place. Even if you put a warning dialog in front of people's faces, that does not mean the issue is 'solved', because users will forget, or ignore it. Of course, you can blame the user, but the goal is to prevent the situation from occurring.

I really don't know how to respond, sure users can be idiots and you should do your best to make sure they can't make fools of themselves, but when it comes to removing major features of the games that came before the sequel just so users don't show their stupidity, then that's going too far IMHO. It makes previous users of your games upset and unwilling to buy it, that's more lost than dealing with complaints of some users via automated responses after they've bought it.

As far as Blizzard saying DRM isn't a major issue, of course they're going to say that, they don't want customers thinking they would add DRM to a game to limit piracy at the cost of making many customers unhappy.

I do not appreciate being called 'retarded'. You are allowed to have an opinion, as am I. Let's keep this civil.

I'm to the point that I am fine with insulting people, not because they disagree with my views, but because they refuse to believe something (in this case, offline-mode will have no detrimental effect to online mode), and they refuse to prove why that "something" is not valid. I'm all about proving my points and admitting I am wrong when someone proves me wrong, but I hate when people argue till their blue in the face, all the while avoiding the original issue and proving no evidence to back up their "evidence".

[firey]

The thing is you guys keep repeating the same things. yet you can't answer the one simple question, HOW does offline single player affect you or other people playing online. it doesn't.

yes there are things gained by being online. but not all of us WANT those features. and adding offline single player for those that want it does not remove those advantages for YOU. fact is the world isn't about just you, and there's a significant player base that's not at all interested in playing D3 with other people.

So why deny offline for these ? why are you defending the removal of offline SP when it's inclusion wouldn't affect you in the slightest.

Okay I will break it down, and when you read this don't go into it with an "Well, that's just you" Attitude. How you play the game isn't how I play the game isn't how My neighbours grandmothers mother plays the game.

I'll start with the point on hacking.

1. When you play single player, you can exploit the client, use hacks, etc to trick out your character. You can make yourself stronger than the game intends by default. Now I realize that you can't bring an single player online, but the idea remains you could sit and find hack after hack in single player, and translate it into online and have a crazy hacked out character in one shot, making it harder to patch.

2. Having online only means every hack attempt is recorded, every character is carefully monitored and hacks can be patched. Now I am not saying you will hack, or will go online to hack, but I guarantee you that hackers will do that. Also, having single player only means no force to update which can result in game-breaking hacks/bugs which ends up being a support nightmare for people that refuse to update.

3. It's a security risk, also because it's an online only game, it's far harder to emulate a closed off hidden server than to simply crack a DLL.

How does it affect me?

When I play online in a group I know that everyone is on a level field. An offline character while on it's own doesn't affect me, however the fact that you either have offline characters that can be brought online, or having offline characters not being able to be brought online and having to make a new character just to do a quest or something online. There are plenty of times I will want to solo things, then a quest gets hard so I join a group, having an offline mode (to ensure no access) and an online mode being separated like that makes the above difficult.

With the fact internet is everywhere, and included in so many devices (often with tethering), and the fact a low speed connection is all that is required, it is not denying anyone. As everyone could theoretically play, using a cell connection.

It is a lot more indepth than "This is why XXXXXXX". So you can't expect a final boom answer, as the answers are it's good because of X, bad because of Y, and it's up to you to say if you agree with the good and bad.

In my eyes it's a lot like Windows 8. I hate metro and will never use it, I feel it takes away from the OS and makes it feel like a childs toy. I know for a fact you feel opposite, and I don't agree with that stance, but like this, there is not set reason as to why I should agree with it or like it.

[Kirkburn]

Development time spent on creating and maintaining an offline mode is time taken away from maintaining and updating the online version.

Just to add to this...

The rationale that single player isn't feasible because of the games current design is valid because we are talking about getting a single player option now. To have single player now would require extra months of development.

For certain, if they had built single player into the design at an early stage, this would not have been an issue. But since they didn't, it becomes a valid reason (though somewhat dependent on the reasons they didn't include it).

[ShMaunder]

I have to wonder how many people that are anti-offline single player have actually played Diablo 2 for a respectable amount of time (if at all).

After going through the acts a couple of times over the past 11 years, it becomes boring. So I started kicking the mods out, hacking the characters etc. etc. which gave so much more life to the game. In fact, it is still very playable now because of this very fact.

Auction house sounds like a massive money spinner on top of the game price. I don't have a problem with free-to-play games implementing this approach to generate income, but a premium priced game doing this seems very greedy.

I won't be buying D3 unless they put together a patch to enable offline play. Hell, they could ship a modified version of the server used on Bnet and embed it into Diablo so therefore, there would be minimum maintenance required.

I only hope that it is a piracy only tatic because there would be a bigger chance of a patch being released in ~3 years time to minimise server overhead charges when sales drop.

[spedanden]

Honestly, It comes down to if you dont like the fact it's online only then dont play it, dont buy it. And why bother posting about it here more than once? We cant change it, so say you don't like it and move on! Maybe part of the issue some people have with no offline is the fact they cant pirate the game easily. I personally am 100% happy with the fact it's going to be really hard to cheat.

Wow cool, a map hack. This isnt Diablo 2... you get rewarded for clearing zones with the Nephalem Valor resulting in better loot. Rushing to exits results in crappier drops.

And the funny part is, I'd put good money on the fact that the ones who are really adament about not buying due to lack of offline mode already have it preordered or will buy it within the first week as their "defiance" wears off. If not, then cool more server bandwidth for me!!!

[Nagisan]

I'll start with the point on hacking.

1. When you play single player, you can exploit the client, use hacks, etc to trick out your character. You can make yourself stronger than the game intends by default. Now I realize that you can't bring an single player online, but the idea remains you could sit and find hack after hack in single player, and translate it into online and have a crazy hacked out character in one shot, making it harder to patch.

Wrong. When Blizzard controls the server, the hacks you find in single-player will rarely (if ever) work the same (if at all) in multiplayer. Hacking items, that won't happen regardless of offline or no offline play.

2. Having online only means every hack attempt is recorded, every character is carefully monitored and hacks can be patched. Now I am not saying you will hack, or will go online to hack, but I guarantee you that hackers will do that. Also, having single player only means no force to update which can result in game-breaking hacks/bugs which ends up being a support nightmare for people that refuse to update.

Every hack attempt in online mode (whether successful or not) is already recorded, due to point 1 all the attempts of failed hacks will be recorded just as if online-only was the only way to play.

3. It's a security risk, also because it's an online only game, it's far harder to emulate a closed off hidden server than to simply crack a DLL.

They already have cracked servers and the game hasn't released, sure it wont be as up to date as online-only but it doesn't need to be.

How does it affect me?

When I play online in a group I know that everyone is on a level field. An offline character while on it's own doesn't affect me, however the fact that you either have offline characters that can be brought online, or having offline characters not being able to be brought online and having to make a new character just to do a quest or something online. There are plenty of times I will want to solo things, then a quest gets hard so I join a group, having an offline mode (to ensure no access) and an online mode being separated like that makes the above difficult.

How does it make it more difficult? That's like saying "Someone has played more than me, that's not fair!". Your argument is like saying "Anyone with a character on their account farther along than my character should NOT be able to play with me on ANY of their characters, otherwise they might have better gear or know the area/quest better".

Offline mode wouldn't change this in the slightest.

[spacer]

So...in an effort to steer this thread off of the offline vs. online circular conversation...for those of you who are going to get the game, what is the first character you will be playing with?

For me, after being in the beta for a few months, my opinions on the classes haven't changed much. I am wholeheartedly going to start with a Barbarian. I loves me some Leap, Ancient Spear, and exploding Cleave.

[Piggy]

I haven't played properly since Diablo. I really don't have much info about the new one and I'm going in blind. :D

[firey]

Wrong. When Blizzard controls the server, the hacks you find in single-player will rarely (if ever) work the same (if at all) in multiplayer. Hacking items, that won't happen regardless of offline or no offline play.

If it's a client based hack, then those can be turned into online related. Just because something is client side doesn't mean it can't result in something server side.

Every hack attempt in online mode (whether successful or not) is already recorded, due to point 1 all the attempts of failed hacks will be recorded just as if online-only was the only way to play.

Right, but hack attempts in offline mode are not recorded. Which is what I was saying. Someone could hack the **** out of the client offline, and blizz will never know until the hack is unleashed online. There is no trial and error logs once the hack is tested and set in stone in offline.

They already have cracked servers and the game hasn't released, sure it wont be as up to date as online-only but it doesn't need to be.

Wrong(ish), the server aren't cracked, they aren't using any blizz code. Everything was reverse engineered from the packets. If blizz included the server code directly into the client (for offline) then it would be a 100% up to date server. That could theoretically be modded and changed to support multi-player pulling people away from Blizzs servers. Which.. would be a dumb business move.

How does it make it more difficult? That's like saying "Someone has played more than me, that's not fair!". Your argument is like saying "Anyone with a character on their account farther along than my character should NOT be able to play with me on ANY of their characters, otherwise they might have better gear or know the area/quest better".

Offline mode wouldn't change this in the slightest.

Read what I wrote, I said that playing solo, then going online for 1 quest, then hopping back to solo would be difficult if I couldn't have a copy of my solo character online. Of course being able to do that results in stuff mentioned above (single player hacked characters being put into online/legit servers [which I know isn't what would happen, but for what I would want it would need to]).

[firey]

So...in an effort to steer this thread off of the offline vs. online circular conversation...for those of you who are going to get the game, what is the first character you will be playing with?

For me, after being in the beta for a few months, my opinions on the classes haven't changed much. I am wholeheartedly going to start with a Barbarian. I loves me some Leap, Ancient Spear, and exploding Cleave.

I only played the open beta, but I am going to go with the Monk for sure. I liked the speed and skills I had even at level 12.

[ShMaunder]

Read what I wrote, I said that playing solo, then going online for 1 quest, then hopping back to solo would be difficult if I couldn't have a copy of my solo character online. Of course being able to do that results in stuff mentioned above (single player hacked characters being put into online/legit servers [which I know isn't what would happen, but for what I would want it would need to]).

I used to play D2 in "solo" on Bnet. I used to create a game with a random server password. I was then playing online but solo. It allowed me to use the character in groups later on then.

That same method could be used in D3 if they implemented it the same way? Of course, the biggest problem in D2 was the character being deleted after X number of days, which they've reverted in D3 which is good.

Edit: ah, I think I see what your getting at. People complaining or being confused by this?

[KillTheIrishman]

Speaking of WoW. I haven't played in ages. Does anyone have a Scroll of Resurrection that they'd be will to part with? Much appreciated. PM please and TY! Sorry to have posted Off Topic BTW. I do apologize.

[Kirkburn]

I have to wonder how many people that are anti-offline single player have actually played Diablo 2 for a respectable amount of time (if at all).

You may not have had me in mind when you said this, but just so we're clear: I'm not anti-offline single player. I've only ever played D2 (a lot) in single player.

So...in an effort to steer this thread off of the offline vs. online circular conversation...for those of you who are going to get the game, what is the first character you will be playing with?

For me, after being in the beta for a few months, my opinions on the classes haven't changed much. I am wholeheartedly going to start with a Barbarian. I loves me some Leap, Ancient Spear, and exploding Cleave.

Barbarian for me too. Love the smashy-explody gameplay of them :)

[Nagisan]

If it's a client based hack, then those can be turned into online related. Just because something is client side doesn't mean it can't result in something server side.

That's assuming the hack will work when the player doesn't have access to the map information, character data, item data, etc. You are assuming too much to simply say "An offline hack would translate into an online hack".

Wrong(ish), the server aren't cracked, they aren't using any blizz code. Everything was reverse engineered from the packets. If blizz included the server code directly into the client (for offline) then it would be a 100% up to date server. That could theoretically be modded and changed to support multi-player pulling people away from Blizzs servers. Which.. would be a dumb business move.

Which has already happened with every battlenet related game (Warcraft 3, diablo 2, etc), it's going to happen regardless of whether Blizzard bundles the server with the game itself (in some form). And by cracked, I meant it could be played without having a legit D3 beta account (played non-legitimacy), emulated would have been a better word, but my point still stands regardless of the terminology.

Read what I wrote, I said that playing solo, then going online for 1 quest, then hopping back to solo would be difficult if I couldn't have a copy of my solo character online. Of course being able to do that results in stuff mentioned above (single player hacked characters being put into online/legit servers [which I know isn't what would happen, but for what I would want it would need to]).

I misunderstood your post (honestly I couldn't follow it at all with the way you typed it up), but seriously, Read what I wrote. People like you could ignore offline-mode and continue playing online either with other people or without. You seem to be set on single-player meaning offline only. Single-player can be online or offline, depending or whether or not you play with others while online. If Blizzard included offline for people who want it, you would be 100% unaffected. You could play your online characters online in a single-player game just like you plan to do currently, then join others when you want to, and I could play offline mods like I want to and completely leave you unaffected. Don't know how many times I have to say it but you obviously are misunderstanding what I mean by offline-only (which to clarify, does not remove the ability to play online completely on your own, but it does let me play without connecting to Blizzard servers and therefore allowing me to run mods once I get bored of the normal game).

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

So...in an effort to steer this thread off of the offline vs. online circular conversation...for those of you who are going to get the game, what is the first character you will be playing with?

For me, after being in the beta for a few months, my opinions on the classes haven't changed much. I am wholeheartedly going to start with a Barbarian. I loves me some Leap, Ancient Spear, and exploding Cleave.

I plan on starting with the Monk class. It's a good mix of high damage output, maneuverability, and healing. I haven't decided on my second character yet but the Barbarian looks like a good choice.

[spacer]

Yeah, I really like the Monk too. Though the teleporting weapon models still rubs me the wrong way. Other than that bug, I really love the Monk class too. It'll probably be the second class that I play with.

[Razorwing]

Does anyone want to start a Neowin Team/Co-op Quest playthrough? Obviously, when it comes out. lol.

[HawkMan]

Excuse me? So this talk of the ease of hacking apparently flew right by you? I am sure you might discount it, but that does not mean it was not presented to you..

Ummm, no, I responded to that as well, several times. And it still just as much fantasy BS as the firs time you said it.

[HawkMan]

Development time spent on creating and maintaining an offline mode is time taken away from maintaining and updating the online version.

O it won't, it's the same code, again, modular coding. Offline single player will use the same code for generating dungeons and spawning monsters as the server. Just stored locally. Adding a dll or similar referenced from the exe for this wold take practically no time at all. And the game executable would still be arched just as normal. And server patches get easily pushed down do the shared code if and when needed.

And if they have at least some semblance of skill in their coders. Hacking and reverse engineering won't really be a problem. Either way hacks will occur anyway and you need entirely different ways to detect and find hacks than just security by obscurity. It doesn't work terribly well.

[HawkMan]

Okay I will break it down, and when you read this don't go into it with an "Well, that's just you" Attitude. How you play the game isn't how I play the game isn't how My neighbours grandmothers mother plays the game.

I'll start with the point on hacking.

1. When you play single player, you can exploit the client, use hacks, etc to trick out your character. You can make yourself stronger than the game intends by default. Now I realize that you can't bring an single player online, but the idea remains you could sit and find hack after hack in single player, and translate it into online and have a crazy hacked out character in one shot, making it harder to patch.

2. Having online only means every hack attempt is recorded, every character is carefully monitored and hacks can be patched. Now I am not saying you will hack, or will go online to hack, but I guarantee you that hackers will do that. Also, having single player only means no force to update which can result in game-breaking hacks/bugs which ends up being a support nightmare for people that refuse to update.

3. It's a security risk, also because it's an online only game, it's far harder to emulate a closed off hidden server than to simply crack a DLL.

How does it affect me?

When I play online in a group I know that everyone is on a level field. An offline character while on it's own doesn't affect me, however the fact that you either have offline characters that can be brought online, or having offline characters not being able to be brought online and having to make a new character just to do a quest or something online. There are plenty of times I will want to solo things, then a quest gets hard so I join a group, having an offline mode (to ensure no access) and an online mode being separated like that makes the above difficult.

With the fact internet is everywhere, and included in so many devices (often with tethering), and the fact a low speed connection is all that is required, it is not denying anyone. As everyone could theoretically play, using a cell connection.

It is a lot more indepth than "This is why XXXXXXX". So you can't expect a final boom answer, as the answers are it's good because of X, bad because of Y, and it's up to you to say if you agree with the good and bad.

In my eyes it's a lot like Windows 8. I hate metro and will never use it, I feel it takes away from the OS and makes it feel like a childs toy. I know for a fact you feel opposite, and I don't agree with that stance, but like this, there is not set reason as to why I should agree with it or like it.

You're repeating yourself, I already responded to all of that and the responses are still the same.

Offline players don't mind online only players enjoy themselves, so why do you insists on limiting the game and enjoyment away from those who want to play offline.

Funny how you guys go on about those who want offline play being selfish and only wanting the game as they want it. Wile you are far more egotistical in that regard. A least adding offline for those who want it doesn't affect the online payers, as opposed to those of you who insist the game shouldn't have an offline option.

[+SOOPRcow MVC]

Can we seriously just shut up about this whole offline/online argument. It's old, you guys are repeating the same things over and over and its not going to change anything. If you don't want to play the game then don't buy it.

[Shadrack]

Have you ever played WoW, or any other Blizz Game for that matter? There is no form of content delivery system aside from their launcher (which downloads game updates). There is no distribution client, or game manager. You download, you install, you play. No extra third party ****.

I lol'd hard at the "will it be on Steam" you made my day good sir.

Well, he is an "mvc" :p.

[Cyborg_X]

Can someone give me clarification here;

Can you play single player without being online?

Nope.

[scaramonga]

All ready to go :)

[08993]