Bath Christian group's 'God can heal' adverts banned

[Olly-]

A Christian group has been banned from claiming that God can heal illnesses on its website and in leaflets.

The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) said it had concluded that the adverts by Healing on the Streets (HOTS) - Bath, were misleading.

It said a leaflet available to download from the group's website said: "Need Healing? God can heal today!"

The group, based in Bradford-on-Avon, Wiltshire, said it was disappointed with the decision and would appeal.

HOTS Bath said its vision was to promote Christian healing "as a daily lifestyle for every believer".

'False hope'

The ASA said the leaflet read: "Need Healing? God can heal today! Do you suffer from Back Pain, Arthritis, MS, Addiction ... Ulcers, Depression, Allergies, Fibromyalgia, Asthma, Paralysis, Crippling Disease, Phobias, Sleeping disorders or any other sickness?

"We'd love to pray for your healing right now!

"We're Christian from churches in Bath and we pray in the name of Jesus. We believe that God loves you and can heal you from any sickness."

The ASA said it had been alerted to the adverts by a complainant, and concluded that they could encourage false hope and were irresponsible.

HOTS Bath said: "It seems very odd to us that the ASA wants to prevent us from stating on our website the basic Christian belief that God can heal illness.

"All over the world as part of their normal Christian life, Christians believe in, pray for and experience God's healing; our ministry, in common with many churches, has been active in praying for God's healing (of Christians and non Christians) for many years."

The group said it had tried to reach a compromise, "but there are certain things that we cannot agree to - including a ban on expressing our beliefs".

The Healing On The Streets ministry was started by Causeway Coast Vineyard church in Coleraine, Northern Ireland, in 2005 and has been taken up by dozens of churches across the UK.

source

At last, some brains from the ASA!!

[FloatingFatMan]

In the UK, you're not allowed to make any claims in advertising that aren't true. Believing something is true does not make it so, the ASA require verified proof of your claims.

So tough luck, churchies!

[Amarok]

Makes sense. I mean I see both sides of it. On one hand it's like energy drinks which claim to enhance your physical performance, mental performance, and stimulate your metabolism, they're required to stick a "These claims have not been verified by the FDA." somewhere on the cans/bottles. On the other hand they said that they believe that their prayers CAN heals you, not that they WILL heal you.

I'm completely fine with banning that from leaflets and such, I get some annoying leaflets from the local Jehovah's Witnesses ... but I also agree with this part:

HOTS Bath said: "It seems very odd to us that the ASA wants to prevent us from stating on our website the basic Christian belief that God can heal illness.

It DOES seem odd that the ASA wants to prevent them from stating their beliefs on their website.

[leesmithg]

Religion is a belief.

I am agnostic as I cannot prove nor deny a G-d exists.

So they should be allowed to preach what they believe as it has not been dis-proven.

[Twiddle]

Well, they can say what they like, about their prayers "healing" as long as it doesn't advocate the absence of modern medicine. Just because you feel "healed" doesn't mean you are, and it should not promote this thought, causing people to get sick and die, because they stopped taking medication or seeing a doctor for something serious. If you really think that, then maybe you deserve what you get, and a Darwin award to go with it.

Also, they can say what they want on their website, I don't know why they would be against that.

[The Teej]

Okay, so just change it to "We believe god can heal you! Join the faith" and be done with it.

Butthurt cream needed, stat!

[Sylar0]

As a militant atheist I don?t accept some of the above arguments we have no factual evidence that praying heals thus it?s illogical to think it can or might and should be illegal to state it in advertisements. I don?t accept any argument its belief let them state it. We don?t allow coke a cola for example to state on belief alone that it has (if any) miraculous properties we require that advertised beliefs be stated on evidence. I am wondering if this group is also defrauding people asking for donations but even if they are not it is still wrong.

[Ently]

Offtopic: Imagine if God was a woman and wanted to be appropriately titled our "Goddess" or pray to our "Goddess" wouldn't she be ****ed people keep calling her a man?

Ontopic: Yeah people can believe all kinds of crazy things but at the end of the day it is usually just the power of their brain not a God/Goddess that "heals" someone or at least.. provides that person with enough hope to overcome their fears/illness (when I say illness I mean when someone prays to God/Goddess to get better and they just naturally get better than claim it was their belief not their immune system/medical science, etc).

[Nothing Here]

Wow. So many haters and not one Christian posting here? God CAN heal. Bash me, slash me, I don't care. Are all the Christians here going to be like Peter and deny him???

[Sylar0]

Wow. So many haters and not one Christian posting here? God CAN heal. Bash me, slash me, I don't care. Are all the Christians here going to be like Peter and deny him???

Hate I dont hate, I am humanist this equates to love. religion causes alot of pain and hurt in the world. Explain to me before I call the mental illness people why you seriously think god CAN heal it if it exists has shown no evidence of such things. Off topic did you know I CAN fly.

[ThisSiteHasLostItsCharm]

i was at my local church once and some guy with a limp magically got his leg healed while I was there, he left the room though and when he came back his leg was healed.

everyone thought it was a miracle.

I still think it was bs, no proof was given at the time.

[Nothing Here]

Hate I dont hate, I am humanist this equates to love. religion causes alot of pain and hurt in the world. Explain to me before I call the mental illness people why you seriously think god CAN heal it if it exists has shown no evidence of such things. Off topic did you know I CAN fly.

Do you believe that the wind blows? Of course you do. You can feel it. If you were a Christian you can feel God and you would know God can heal.

[Sylar0]

Do you believe that the wind blows? Of course you do. You can feel it. If you were a Christian you can feel God and you would know God can heal.

Flawed uneducated logic my friend the gases that make up air have been proven and tested and that they move I don?t believe the wind is there because I feel it and I do, I believe it?s there only because it?s been empirically tested. Don?t tell me why I believe in something or otherwise. There is a difference between winds proven beyond any doubt to be over our ability to see and ?feeling? god in your brain and then attributing this feeling divine power. God doesn?t exist just because you think you believe in it. That is not how the universe works try cutting off your electricity sometime and believing you didn?t see if your lights turn on. NOTHING exists just because people claim to feel it until anything is empirical it doesn?t exist. Not trying to flame you but it?s not a choice to say ?X exists because I feel it? it just isn?t.

[Nothing Here]

You can call it flawed all you want. Everyone has the right to believe as they want to, To have your beliefs censored by anyone or any thing is wrong.

[The Teej]

Do you believe that the wind blows? Of course you do. You can feel it. If you were a Christian you can feel God and you would know God can heal.

As a guy who was of the faith, all I can say is, have fun defending against The Horde. FYI, it doesn't end around here. It's like a shouting match that doesn't end and nobody wins.

[Sylar0]

You can call it flawed all you want. Everyone has the right to believe as they want to, To have your beliefs censored by anyone or any thing is wrong.

No they don?t some people with not logical systems of belief are considered mentally ill and deemed to have mental health problems. So no not everyone has the right to believe as they wish. It is not censorship it is that your beliefs are logically not supposed to be believed in until there proven. Do you have a home, car, a pc, an internet connection science and empirics created all these things via reason. You?re holding by definition beliefs without reason. I pity and feel sorry for you deeply I am glad I do not have religion in my life something that helps perpetuate and condemn many unethical things such as Africa to poverty as one example. I am sorry you?re living your life in this way it brings a tear to my mind.

[Nothing Here]

As a guy who was of the faith, all I can say is, have fun defending against The Horde. FYI, it doesn't end around here. It's like a shouting match that doesn't end and nobody wins.

Your right about that. Too many "closed minds".

No they don?t some people with not logical systems of belief are considered mentally ill and deemed to have mental health problems. So no not everyone has the right to believe as they wish. It is not censorship it is that your beliefs are logically not supposed to be believed in until there proven. Do you have a home, car, a pc, an internet connection science and empirics created all these things via reason. You?re holding by definition beliefs without reason. I pity and feel sorry for you deeply I am glad I do not have religion in my life something that helps perpetuate and condemn many unethical things such as Africa to poverty as one example. I am sorry you?re living your life in this way it brings a tear to my mind.

Don't pity me. Pity yourself and others like you. No one has the right to tell you what you have to believe. Period.

[Amarok]

Hate I dont hate, I am humanist this equates to love. religion causes alot of pain and hurt in the world. Explain to me before I call the mental illness people why you seriously think god CAN heal it if it exists has shown no evidence of such things. Off topic did you know I CAN fly.

As a militant atheist I don?t accept some of the above arguments we have no factual evidence that praying heals thus it?s illogical to think it can or might and should be illegal to state it in advertisements. I don?t accept any argument its belief let them state it. We don?t allow coke a cola for example to state on belief alone that it has (if any) miraculous properties we require that advertised beliefs be stated on evidence. I am wondering if this group is also defrauding people asking for donations but even if they are not it is still wrong.

Religion causes a lot of good in the world as well. They never make the news for it, but every year the Catholic church spends hundreds of millions of dollars on humanitarian efforts for people that don't even share their faith. Islam also does this, although in a less organized way. Where I live they recently constructed a multi-cultural multi-faith community center in hopes of giving the youth somewhere safe, clean, and fun to hang out. They don't preach to the youth there or anything like that, although they do have multi-faith religious programs for people who are interested and they do provide information about their religion if asked for it. The local Catholic church gives out food and clothes to people in need from the neighborhood and ask nothing in return for that either. Even if one is not religious there is definitely a huge good side to religion. Unfortunately there is the downside of nutjobs like those Westboro Baptists people, but there are nutjobs in every group.

The group in question in the OP absolutely can say what they believe, just because you disagree with it doesn't mean that they can't say it. And you absolutely can put claims like that on food and beverage products in places. They do it with energy drinks all the time. They just have to stamp "Claims not verified by the [Governing Body on Food Properties]" somewhere visible on the packaging.

As one of my friends who has made a career in science once pointed out to me, a truly scientific mind would never make an absolute statement on the existence of a god or higher power. A truly scientific mind may say that they don't believe in such a thing/person/whatever but would refrain from declaring s/he/it exists or not until evidence for or against exists. I'd never thought of it like that until he mentioned it to me, but given that his entire life is devoted to science I'll take his word for it.

[Sylar0]

Your right about that. Too many "closed minds".

Don't pity me. Pity yourself and others like you. No one has the right to tell you what you have to believe. Period.

Government does all the time what do you think a lot of patents in mental hospitals are there for delusion.

Religion causes a lot of good in the world as well. They never make the news for it, but every year the Catholic church spends hundreds of millions of dollars on humanitarian efforts for people that don't even share their faith. Islam also does this, although in a less organized way. Where I live they recently constructed a multi-cultural multi-faith community center in hopes of giving the youth somewhere safe, clean, and fun to hang out. They don't preach to the youth there or anything like that, although they do have multi-faith religious programs for people who are interested and they do provide information about their religion if asked for it. The local Catholic church gives out food and clothes to people in need from the neighborhood and ask nothing in return for that either. Even if one is not religious there is definitely a huge good side to religion. Unfortunately there is the downside of nutjobs like those Westboro Baptists people, but there are nutjobs in every group.

The group in question in the OP absolutely can say what they believe, just because you disagree with it doesn't mean that they can't say it. And you absolutely can put claims like that on food and beverage products in places. They do it with energy drinks all the time. They just have to stamp "Claims not verified by the [Governing Body on Food Properties]" somewhere visible on the packaging.

As one of my friends who has made a career in science once pointed out to me, a truly scientific mind would never make an absolute statement on the existence of a god or higher power. A truly scientific mind may say that they don't believe in such a thing/person/whatever but would refrain from declaring s/he/it exists or not until evidence for or against exists. I'd never thought of it like that until he mentioned it to me, but given that his entire life is devoted to science I'll take his word for it.

If I have given you the impression sir that I think no religions do any good for the world then this would be incorrect, but it is hypocritical of the Catholic Church as one example, doesn?t believe in contraceptives yet partakes in humanitarian work. I will qualify by saying I believe in stopping contraception not killing children I see these as two very different ideas. I will also add the idea of needing religion in order to do ?good things? is flawed it is just not the case. As for energy drinks I don?t know what country you all live in but Ive never seen such claims so I can?t comment further other than to say they do give you the amount of energy stated.

Did I say I was making an absolute statement no. I know what I said was that basically we should not believe in god until it is proven and thus be atheistic about it. This is not agnosticism, agnosticism, is being unsure. I am not unsure I know I am an atheist until there is proof of god I am not living my live it doubt or suggesting proof couldn?t be found but it is illogical to act as proof already exists. Hope I have made this clear.

[Rigby]

These claims are absolutely no different than claiming that praying to Panacea, the Greek goddess of healing, will fix all your health problems right up. Primitive fables and superstitions shouldn't be allowed to be advertised as facts.

[Miuku.]

Hilarious.

However, not so hilarious when people die from their very real illnesses and those that filled their head with the religious doctrine don't face the music for it.

[Sylar0]

These claims are absolutely no different than claiming that praying to Panacea, the Greek goddess of healing, will fix all your health problems right up. Primitive fables and superstitions shouldn't be allowed to be advertised as facts.

This seconded. How is it different religious.

[Amarok]

If I have given you the impression sir that I think no religions do any good for the world then this would be incorrect, but it is hypocritical of the Catholic Church as one example, doesn?t believe in contraceptives yet partakes in humanitarian work. I will qualify by saying I believe in stopping contraception not killing children I see these as two very different ideas. I will also add the idea of needing religion in order to do ?good things? is flawed it is just not the case. As for energy drinks I don?t know what country you all live in but Ive never seen such claims so I can?t comment further other than to say they do give you the amount of energy stated.

Did I say I was making an absolute statement no. I know what I said was that basically we should not believe in god until it is proven and thus be atheistic about it. This is not agnosticism, agnosticism, is being unsure. I am not unsure I know I am an atheist until there is proof of god I am not living my live it doubt or suggesting proof couldn?t be found but it is illogical to act as proof already exists. Hope I have made this clear.

In regards to the energy drinks they state that they increase physical and mental performance and stamina as well as stimulate the metabolism. They also come with the little "These claims have not been verified by the FDA." stamp on them.

I'm sure that people are willing to do good work, but the Catholic church (as an example) is absolutely incredible at organizing people to do good work. My community is a good example of this. I can say with certainty that without the catholic church, or without the local mosque that also organizes community programs my community wouldn't do anything to help it's members in need. I just get a little touchy when people act like religion is only responsible for bad things when I know and can see that religions can and do have major positive impacts on communities and through some of their programs improve the quality of life of unfortunate people.

No worries on the other point, it's just that when you imply that someone who believes in a higher power suffers from delusions or has a mental illness it's more or less the atheistic equivalent of the religious fanatic's "REPENT OR BURN!"

[Amarok]

Primitive fables and superstitions shouldn't be allowed to be advertised as facts.

I don't think anybody is arguing that. The original material that was banned said that the group believes that prayer MAY heal. It didn't say "Pray and we'll cure your cancer." - The primary issue is that the ASA seems to want to prevent them from talking about their beliefs on their website.

I am in complete agreement however that if anyone tells anyone to shun modern medicine for their condition they should be held responsible for the results of that.

all I can say is, have fun defending against The Horde.

Works both ways and honestly I'm starting to wonder why I bother. I know full well that people will always hate and hate on people who are different from them in even the smallest ways and yet I keep hoping that people will be a little more compassionate, understanding, and caring to their fellow humans. Hah.

[Sylar0]

In regards to the energy drinks they state that they increase physical and mental performance and stamina as well as stimulate the metabolism. They also come with the little "These claims have not been verified by the FDA." stamp on them.

I'm sure that people are willing to do good work, but the Catholic church (as an example) is absolutely incredible at organizing people to do good work. My community is a good example of this. I can say with certainty that without the catholic church, or without the local mosque that also organizes community programs my community wouldn't do anything to help it's members in need. I just get a little touchy when people act like religion is only responsible for bad things when I know and can see that religions can and do have major positive impacts on communities and through some of their programs improve the quality of life of unfortunate people.

No worries on the other point, it's just that when you imply that someone who believes in a higher power suffers from delusions or has a mental illness it's more or less the atheistic equivalent of the religious fanatic's "REPENT OR BURN!"

Well we dont seem to have them type of drinks in the UK if we do and someone correct me please. I am sure any claims will have to be proven not just "disclamed". See it from my point of view "I'm sure that people are willing to do good work, but the Catholic church (as an example) is absolutely incredible at organizing people to do unethical work" doing good work does not excuse the rest of its doctrain. They also cause ALOT of ill in the world. No it really isnt I know the defination of "delusion" and based on my understanding of the word the religious our it I am not fanatical, unlike the religious repent or burn I go by follow or accept help. If a man came up to you in the street and said he belived he could see X in the street or whatever you send them to a hospital. But for people who/feel god thats ok but seeing a pink unicorn in the street gets you in hospital right?