windows 8 Windows 8 Consumer Preview: A Call for Common Sense

[ajnauron]

I mean, as I asked previously, tell me one thing that the metro start screen does more efficiently than the standard desktop did on Windows 7. Read the last few pages. I asked and got little in response, however, I listed a number of valid concerns regarding the change to the metro start screen. You see, in the logical evolution of any product, you typically don't just change things for the hell of it when it brings no positive impact to people and can bring a large negative impact. I'm typically the one running a beta version of any OS I can get my hands on to have the latest and greatest. I live on the cutting edge of technology. However, in this case, I don't see anything useful that this change brings, and I'm not going to just blindly follow along and say "IT'S THE GREATEST EVOLUTION IN WINDOWS HISTORY!" blindly, just because the new version of Windows has it. I'm fully open to ideas that make it a useful change in Windows, but have yet to see any. As said before, I see no reason for this to run any differently than Windows Media Center does. As a separate app that you can run if you want to, and if you have the proper device for it (media center in that case, touch screen in this case), you can just drop it in the ole startup folder and it'll boot right into it. Or perhaps they would integrate it slightly more, but still, have a switch so that you can use it or not.

Change for the sake of change is pointless and in a case like this, very detrimental to your product when it's going to confuse the large majority of your users. Can you tell me a useful reason for using the start screen other than it's new and pretty?

It lets Microsoft put Windows 8 on tablets, allowing them to make money in an expanding market where previously the use of Windows in that environment was extremely niche. :laugh:

I get the feeling they're doing this more for them than for us.

[BajiRav]

I mean, as I asked previously, tell me one thing that the metro start screen does more efficiently than the standard desktop did on Windows 7. Read the last few pages. I asked and got little in response, however, I listed a number of valid concerns regarding the change to the metro start screen. You see, in the logical evolution of any product, you typically don't just change things for the hell of it when it brings no positive impact to people and can bring a large negative impact. I'm typically the one running a beta version of any OS I can get my hands on to have the latest and greatest. I live on the cutting edge of technology. However, in this case, I don't see anything useful that this change brings, and I'm not going to just blindly follow along and say "IT'S THE GREATEST EVOLUTION IN WINDOWS HISTORY!" blindly, just because the new version of Windows has it. I'm fully open to ideas that make it a useful change in Windows, but have yet to see any. As said before, I see no reason for this to run any differently than Windows Media Center does. As a separate app that you can run if you want to, and if you have the proper device for it (media center in that case, touch screen in this case), you can just drop it in the ole startup folder and it'll boot right into it. Or perhaps they would integrate it slightly more, but still, have a switch so that you can use it or not.

Change for the sake of change is pointless and in a case like this, very detrimental to your product when it's going to confuse the large majority of your users. Can you tell me a useful reason for using the start screen other than it's new and pretty?

I agree that Change for the sake of change is pointless but having said that...It is wrong to compare the start screen to desktop. Compared to Windows 7, it is one better in terms of number of items you can pin. Then there are live tiles, if you don't care about them - just reduce them in size. I am a WP user and I like live tiles so this is a welcome change for me.

I am not saying everything in CP is perfect but people whining about lack of start menu or their 42" TV (another pointless prop) isn't adding anything to discussion. That point has been made numerous times, and may be valid (for me, the jury is still out. I haven't made it my primary OS yet and probably won't till RC) but repeating it is annoying if nothing else.

[~Johnny]

The menu needs a little cleaning up, preferably by software developer or maybe even alphabetized, but it's still there for better or worse.

I believe that screen is organised / grouped / alphabetised in the same order & groups as "All Programs" in the Windows 7 start menu (it also has semantic zooming for those who need it with lots of programs installed).

[AJerman]

It lets Microsoft put Windows 8 on tablets, allowing them to make money in an expanding market where previously the use of Windows in that environment was extremely niche. :laugh:

I get the feeling they're doing this more for them than for us.

Right, and I've got no problem with that. It works wonderfully for that. In fact, I can't wait to get a Win 8 tablet. But for the desktop, why are they forcing the metro start screen on people when it seems cumbersome to use with a mouse and keyboard compared to what we had before?

I agree that Change for the sake of change is pointless but having said that...It is wrong to compare the start screen to desktop. Compared to Windows 7, it is one better in terms of number of items you can pin. Then there are live tiles, if you don't care about them - just reduce them in size. I am a WP user and I like live tiles so this is a welcome change for me.

I am not saying everything in CP is perfect but people whining about lack of start menu or their 42" TV (another pointless prop) isn't adding anything to discussion. That point has been made numerous times, and may be valid (for me, the jury is still out. I haven't made it my primary OS yet and probably won't till RC) but repeating it is annoying if nothing else.

See, I personally haven't said anything about the lack of a start menu, or the more "difficulty" shutting the system down, or anything like that, those ARE silly arguments. I'm saying what is better about this than the desktop and start menu that we had previously? I'm fine with this replacing a start menu, if it's worth it. If it increases productivity. If it makes things faster and brings more information to your fingertips. I was saying earlier that I can give a little credit to the live tiles. They could be the saving grace of the start screen, but you say it's one better in terms of number of items you can pin, but if you needed a lot of items, that's what the desktop is for. Not to mention, pinning items and searching for items in your start menu, and putting icons on your desktop is a mindset that they did away with with the search built into the start menu now. I rarely, if ever, actually click around the start menu until I find an app I need. I just start typing it's name and hit enter and I'm done. Windows key + name of app + enter is about a 2 second method from launching an app, and a huge full screen display to show me doing that is entirely unnecessary. I'd rather see live tiles replace or coexist with gadgets in an Expose type display I think. Give me single button access to that type of useful information and keep the rest of the useless start screen.

[Southern Patriot]

I believe that screen is organised / grouped / alphabetised in the same order & groups as "All Programs" in the Windows 7 start menu (it also has semantic zooming for those who need it with lots of programs installed).

Yes, it is, sort of. First are listed the Metro apps, then the other installed apps under their own headings (which in previous versions would have been sub folders). Still a little messy for my tastes, but not horribly so.

One odd thing just happened to me on the Start screen though: side to side scrolling just started working somewhat correctly. As I get to the edge of the screen, it actually scrolls with the pointer. It WAS NOT doing that before. I previously had to either click & drag the scroll bar at the bottom or use the scroll function of my trackpad (up and down motion for a side to side scroll was quite annoying). WTF just happened?

Two other issues I've noted though: Chrome was giving me an error when trying to sync my bookmarks and settings earlier (this has since resolved itself, not sure if it was a Windows or Chrome issue though), and the Metro mail app won't let me add my Gmail account, even though it offers that as an option. I'll try that again soon though, maybe it resolved itself too.

[Stoffel]

Yes, it is, sort of. First are listed the Metro apps, then the other installed apps under their own headings (which in previous versions would have been sub folders). Still a little messy for my tastes, but not horribly so.

One odd thing just happened to me on the Start screen though: side to side scrolling just started working somewhat correctly. As I get to the edge of the screen, it actually scrolls with the pointer. It WAS NOT doing that before. I previously had to either click & drag the scroll bar at the bottom or use the scroll function of my trackpad (up and down motion for a side to side scroll was quite annoying). WTF just happened?

Two other issues I've noted though: Chrome was giving me an error when trying to sync my bookmarks and settings earlier (this has since resolved itself, not sure if it was a Windows or Chrome issue though), and the Metro mail app won't let me add my Gmail account, even though it offers that as an option. I'll try that again soon though, maybe it resolved itself too.

That is new behavior for the mouse, it's new in CP, at the moment it only works on the start screen, but I assume that this will be system wide implemented by the time it hits RTM

[Stoffel]

Lets forget about power users for a moment.

If you honestly look around you, what are most people using their pc for? Email, internet, simple game they play, photo editing and more consuming.

MS wants to get into the Tablet market, and most of us agree that Win 8 looks pretty promising on a tablet. If people start buying Win 8 tablets, they will learn a new OS anyway, and they are prepared to do that.

So if people get used to windows on a tablet, it's not that far fetched to assume that the transition to Win 8 on the desktop is going to be that hard.

For a lot of people it will be nice, their pc now looks and works exactly the same as the tablet they own. They can even use the same apps.

And if you need more serious work done, you still have the desktop .

I believe MS is going for one nice consistent UI over a wide variety of devices. Because with the right apps, a lot of people will not have to see the desktop

[Southern Patriot]

That is new behavior for the mouse, it's new in CP, at the moment it only works on the start screen, but I assume that this will be system wide implemented by the time it hits RTM

Yeah, but the weird thing was that it wasn't working for me yesterday in the Start screen, but it is today. And I managed to correct the Gmail issue by uninstalling then reinstalling the Mail app. For some reason, it had completely lost the option of adding any other accounts!!

[Motoko.]

Windows 8 is gonna rock with or without neowin

[ichi]

The point of the preview is to use and provide feedback on what has been offered, NOT to try and turn it into Windows 7.

Whining that it's different to Windows 7 is pointless. It's supposed to be. Don't like the new direction that Windows 8 has gone in? Then don't buy it.

Giving examples of how Windows8 breaks your workflow is feedback of what's been offered.

Now, wether MS sees value in that feedback is a different issue, but they are perfectly valid complains. Just because someone wants to "turn it into Windows 7" as you put it doesn't mean that some of his points couldn't be addressed in Windows8 without turning it into a Windows 7 rehash.

[neo1911]

I seem to have been convinced after reading the article multiple times. Try it guys. :)

[ATLien_0]

really agree with the article.

Here is what I find interesting. In Windows 8 the start screen is the new desktop OS and the old desktop is now an app.

In OS X Lion Apple did the reverse the desktop is still the main focus, but launchpad is an app.

Microsofts way forces the user to try something new, OSX Lion, not so much in my opinion

[Dot Matrix]

Microsofts way forces the user to try something new, OSX Lion, not so much in my opinion

MacOS hasn't changed much since the 90's, it's had the same layout and fairly similar UI since it's inception when I was in elementary school. To me that is quickly becoming detrimental, to some not so much since it never changes, but as the PC is evolving, I feel the Mac is being quickly left behind. a Mac OSX release isn't as big as say the iPad.

[PGHammer]

I'm not against those who embrace it. Don't get me wrong. I respect their opinion.

The only thing I'm interested is how much the businesses will (or won't) like metro. I think that they won't but we'll see what happens.

I've predicted that a lot of businesses will pass - however, the UI won't be the major reason.

One reason they will pass is, whenever a new OS is deployed (regardless of whether there is a UI change or not), users need training in it. Business IT spending is down across the board, and that includes money for training.

The bean-counters (accounting/finance) will say "Don't upgrade." and the executives will listen, and thus skip Windows 8 except for niche uses. (That would happen regardless of whether the UI changed or not - even Windows XP, which was relatively successful in enterprises, would be hard pressed in the economy of today.)

[FalseAgent]

Agree with the poster above me. Even if Windows 8 wasn't such a drastic change, if it were to be just Windows 7 with a many, many changes made to the desktop,with an improved version of the Aero theme, I suspect that people wouldn't choose to upgrade just for faster boot times and whatnot. I mean, we still have people on XP for a reason.

[Wyn6]

Deleted. Answered by two other posters.

[PGHammer]

\

Only an idiot blindly charges forward when he cannot retreat.

Obviously you missed why entrenchment wasn't an option - IBM tried that, and what has happened to IBM? Heck, *Apple* tried that (when it killed off legal Mac clones) and it darn near trainwrecked the company. Tim Cook realizes - correctly - that the iDevices, not the Macs, are basically letting Apple be Apple. DEC tried that (between IBM and Apple) and found itself overtaken by events and obsoleted (and basically partitioned off between HP and Intel).

Pardon Microsoft (a public company, which, incidentally, I own stock in) for not wanting to find itself covered in syrup and served up for breakfast due to being overtaken by events it has no control over.

[Brian Veteran]

Yes, prove your intelligence is so much higher than everyone else by calling them idiots for disagreeing with you. Nevermind the fact that we come bringing facts to support our reasoning rather than just "shut up and use it". So does that mean that you cared to answer my question earlier about one single thing that the start screen does better? I'd love to hear you actually say something useful for the thread.

Also, OS X is far closer to Windows 7 than Windows 8. In fact, running apps on a Mac is one thing that can be annoying if you don't know how to take care of it. You either put EVERYTHING you frequently use in your dock and just occasionally pick them out of the Applications folder, or as I do, throw the Applications folder into the dock to create a stack and voila, start menu created!

Well, it's not the same screen that runs on a phone at all, that's a whole different OS. But tablet, tablets are built with fairly decent graphics processing for drawing UI elements. The issue would definitely come down to drivers. If you can get hardware acceleration, even a little bit, you can probably do it at least fairly smooth, but if you're running a low end system with a poor graphics chip or poor graphics support, things can change. Are you saying that the second you press the windows key, on any type of hardware, it IMMEDIATELY loads the entire start screen without any hesitation? I haven't extensively tested, but I have tested on systems that are very slow/laggy on the start screen due to lacking gpus/drivers (probably mainly drivers, i'd have to play with it more). I'm frequently surprised by the number of systems I work on that don't have graphics drivers properly installed, even though it makes a big difference even on an XP desktop.

Maybe I'm wrong on that one, but I just can't imagine with how much is going on that every system is going to have no problem drawing it at all. You could argue that if you have trouble, it's time for an upgrade, or just stick what you have, but it just lends further to the arguement that it's pointless unless it provides something useful in return.

Show me a single fact. I want the total amount of extra time that a SINGLE extra click to shut down a machine accrues over the span of a year. I want to know how a paradigm based on natural motion rather than "trained" gestures is better. Show me where outside of an outdated operating system you will find a menu encompassed under a button and how that is any more intuitive than Windows 8 paradigm. If Windows 8 was the system you learned you used, you would complain about a start menu being added to a new operating system, just like the group that was perfectly happy with Windows 3.1 and its paradigm.

You do not have any truly legitimate reasons why Windows 8 and the Metro paradigm is "bad" just that it's not what you use now. That's my point. Use Windows 7 if you're resistant to change. You're probably also from the same lineage as those that complained about electric starters on cars. Hey, the crank works just fine, so keep using it. Add the word progress to your vernacular and you might be much more pleasant to deal with.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Today on m W8 Laptop I went to launch a xvid for the first time and it opened up this stupid ****ing video thing from Meto that wanted me to sign into some ****ing ****. My dad was sitting across the table from me when it happened. he came up for lunch. he heard me growl and utter the words "****ing metro".

I then closed metro right clicked the file and told it to open with Media player and BOOM it played.

****ing metro.

[techguy77]

Show me a single fact. I want the total amount of extra time that a SINGLE extra click to shut down a machine accrues over the span of a year. I want to know how a paradigm based on natural motion rather than "trained" gestures is better. Show me where outside of an outdated operating system you will find a menu encompassed under a button and how that is any more intuitive than Windows 8 paradigm. If Windows 8 was the system you learned you used, you would complain about a start menu being added to a new operating system, just like the group that was perfectly happy with Windows 3.1 and its paradigm.

You do not have any truly legitimate reasons why Windows 8 and the Metro paradigm is "bad" just that it's not what you use now. That's my point. Use Windows 7 if you're resistant to change. You're probably also from the same lineage as those that complained about electric starters on cars. Hey, the crank works just fine, so keep using it. Add the word progress to your vernacular and you might be much more pleasant to deal with.

People really do not complain about Metro Start Screen itself but about the fact that there is such mindset transition from Desktop to Metro and back. Work flow is a problem. Imagine you are on website for example Facebook and you want to add images and you click a action and instead of going to Facebook familiar UI page you are taken to something which looks like MySpace. Your first reaction is going to be wtf is this bull****. It is a bit of irony that Windows Phone wont have Desktop just Metro. Imagine bringing Desktop screen to Windows Phone with its little screen. Similar to that is bringing Metro to PC which already has Desktop. Microsoft defines Tablets and Phones as PC but they are not. Secondly Microsoft defines Desktop as another full screen application launched from Metro Start Menu but it is not. Microsoft got it all wrong.

[techguy77]

Today on m W8 Laptop I went to launch a xvid for the first time and it opened up this stupid ****ing video thing from Meto that wanted me to sign into some ****ing ****. My dad was sitting across the table from me when it happened. he came up for lunch. he heard me growl and utter the words "****ing metro".

I then closed metro right clicked the file and told it to open with Media player and BOOM it played.

****ing metro.

Uninstall all apps from Metro and unpin everything except for Desktop. Also turn off all notifications. Not sure how to remove annoying lock screen. You will have to pin things to Taskbar and make some Desktop shortcuts so you never revisit Metro Start menu while you on computer. It is possible to get around it but it takes time to setup everything.

[Dot Matrix]

Uninstall all apps from Metro and unpin everything except for Desktop. Also turn off all notifications. Not sure how to remove annoying lock screen. You will have to pin things to Taskbar and make some Desktop shortcuts so you never revisit Metro Start menu while you on computer. It is possible to get around it but it takes time to setup everything.

"annoying lock screen"? The Windows 8 lockscreen has been something I have been waiting for for years.

[KevinN206]

the thing abt windows 8 is that i see no benefit from upgrading. The app store has nothing useful, apps are inconsistent, they crash, metro ie doe not even support flash, the media player sucks.... it jut seem like win 8 is better for like playing angry birds and looking kind of nice but when it comes to doing something like photoshop or ...real work, it goes to the desktop. and the desktop has many advantages when it come to managing files or working. you can drag stuff onto a window, etc its just more vesatile. if windows 8 meas the nearing of the desktop ui, i think thats a bad idea. and btw i use media center everyday to watch and record tv and watch videos, its a great program and i hope it wot be discontinued. im aware the cp does not represent the final product, so i hope ms will polish it, make it more intuitive, more useful, etc. at this point i dont see why anyone would pick a win8 device over an ipad , android tablet, which is what is sort of deasigned for. i dont see why anyone would pick a win8 pc over a win7 one.

You are using a beta OS with beta apps. I'm not surprised that you use crashes, errors, and inconsistent. I suggest that you send feedbacks to app developers, and let them know what's going on with their apps.

[+Warwagon MVC]

"annoying lock screen"? The Windows 8 lockscreen has been something I have been waiting for for years.

Personally I LOVED and still LOVE the old Windows 2000 lock screen :)

How can I add folders to Metro? That is about the only useful thing I can think of for metro. putting some folders on tiles I use a lot. Because it's useful I bet it's not even possible!

[Dot Matrix]

How can I add folders to Metro? That is about the only useful thing I can think of for metro. putting some folders on tiles I use a lot. Because it's useful I bet it's not even possible!

Right click > Pin to Start.