windows 8 Windows 8 Consumer Preview: A Call for Common Sense

[+Warwagon MVC]

Jesus Christ, you've got my blood boiling so bad right now! :argh:

I know, scary right?

[Gutierrez]

you just cant change the way the OS looks from one day to another because you dont want to loose the tablet train. You just cant. More because this OS was looking like this for the LAST 26 YEARS?!. Its just a slap in the face to all the generations that had used this OS. Ok maybe some teen would find this exciting but most of the ppl find this fact, the way that they want to look this s*it, is just offensive and insulting.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I can not believe some of the people posting here.

We are on a site called NeoWIN, we are discussing a new version of windows and we are called fanbois and trolls because we like the direction MS is going.

How does this make sense?????

Didn't realise you could only be positive about something the website is dedicated towards.

You are being called fanbois and trolls because a lot of you are incredibly condescending telling the people that don't like Metro that we are closed minded, we just don't "get" Windows and that we should just shut up and stick with Windows 7.

Yet when we tell you the exact same things you have been telling us you start crying about it like you are hard done by and that we are attacking you.

[Stoffel]

Because quite a few very vocal people here (and Paul himself) are saying, in effect, "if you don't like it, **** off, your opinion doesn't matter".

You know what, it's the first time that the people who like the direction MS is going are AS vocal as the people who are against it.

And apparently some people don't like that.

I don't mind people not having the same opinion as I do, what I do have an issue with is that a lot of them here are spreading their opinion as fact.

It's not because you don't like it, or you are against change that everybody else is.

[Stoffel]

Didn't realise you could only be positive about something the website is dedicated towards.

You are being called fanbois and trolls because a lot of you are incredibly condescending telling the people that don't like Metro that we are closed minded, we just don't "get" Windows and that we should just shut up and stick with Windows 7.

Yet when we tell you the exact same things you have been telling us you start crying about it like you are hard done by and that we are attacking you.

When you try something new, you should at least try to embrace it for a while before discarding is as useless.

Also don't try to make it into what you know straight away. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion but don't go on a massive rant how MS have put no thought into developing this. Read all the articles they posted to get an idea of how much research they have done in creating this wonderful new startscreen

you just cant change the way the OS looks from one day to another because you dont want to loose the tablet train. You just cant. More because this OS was looking like this for the LAST 26 YEARS?!. Its just a slap in the face to all the generations that had used this OS. Ok maybe some teen would find this exciting but most of the ppl find this fact, the way that they want to look this s*it, is just offensive and insulting.

How did you get to 26 years???? I think you are about 9 years of.

I've moved happily from Win3.11 to Win 95 and I'm happy to move from Win7 to Win8 now.

Time for something new and exciting

[Steven P. Administrators]

snip

Sorry, but much of what Microsoft have been tooting their trumpet about has everything to do with tablets and touch devices and very little to do with the traditional desktops.

YES I know there are improvements to explorer and the task manager specifically for desktops, but anyone can see why the ribbon was put into explorer, so that people could use their fingers to use it.

Like I've said a few times already, we need a tablet version and a traditional desktop version.

[Stoffel]

Sorry, but much of what Microsoft have been tooting their trumpet about has everything to do with tablets and touch devices and very little to do with the traditional desktops.

YES I know there are improvements to explorer and the task manager specifically for desktops, but anyone can see why the ribbon was put into explorer, so that people could use their fingers to use it.

Like I've said a few times already, we need a tablet version and a traditional desktop version.

And what about me, I want to have a desktop but I like the immersive apps, where does that leave me???

[Southern Patriot]

And what about me, I want to have a desktop but I like the immersive apps, where does that leave me???

Ultimate maybe, that would have both? Something like that could always still be a possibility. Remember that for Vista and 7, most (maybe all) of the publicly released previews were essentially Ultimate versions. Perhaps they are doing the same here. This is something that has crossed my mind in the last couple of days.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Ultimate maybe, that would have both? Something like that could always still be a possibility. Remember that for Vista and 7, most (maybe all) of the publicly released previews were essentially Ultimate versions. Perhaps they are doing the same here. This is something that has crossed my mind in the last couple of days.

While I dislike Metro, I either want Microsoft to remove it completely from the deskop or keep it in. What I don't want to have them do is have it in some versions of windows and not others. Support nightmare. They also have to NUKE the basic version. All I can think of was Vista Basic....AHHH!!!! The Lack of Aero on Basic was terrible, always made the OS feel sluggish.

[Salutary7]

People from each side are just taking everything so personally :cry: It's a lot like arguments of belief. When was the last time you convinced someone to change their religion or political affilliation by telling them they're wrong? :rofl:

[PGHammer]

Sorry, but much of what Microsoft have been tooting their trumpet about has everything to do with tablets and touch devices and very little to do with the traditional desktops.

YES I know there are improvements to explorer and the task manager specifically for desktops, but anyone can see why the ribbon was put into explorer, so that people could use their fingers to use it.

Like I've said a few times already, we need a tablet version and a traditional desktop version.

The traditional desktop is under attack, and is headed toward niche usage. Any sales metric you care to look at - by country, by continent, and the planet as a whole - shows that sales of traditional desktops are either flat or in decline.

Where's the growth? Portable computing - notebooks, netbooks, Ultrabooks, slates, tablets - even smartphones.

How much control does Microsoft have over that? Absolutely none.

That means that any company that has a large footprint in desktops has three choices - entrench, adapt, or get run over.

Let's look at the major players in desktop computing since Windows 9x - all have either adapted or gotten run over. Name a single company that has *successfully* entrenched and survived.

It's computer gaming all over again. The desktop PC is losing its typical place of primacy that it has held.

The time for being Pharonic is over

The major players (and most of the minor ones) have woken up and smelled the Eight O'Clock.

Now it's our turn.

[TheLegendOfMart]

When you try something new, you should at least try to embrace it for a while before discarding is as useless.

Also don't try to make it into what you know straight away. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion but don't go on a massive rant how MS have put no thought into developing this. Read all the articles they posted to get an idea of how much research they have done in creating this wonderful new startscreen

I have tried it, it is installed on a separate hdd in my machine, I also had a Windows Phone 7 device which I detested also and this is just an extension of that, Metro touch has no place on a desktop pc, I don't want to use my mouse as a virtual finger.

Where's the growth? Portable computing - notebooks, netbooks, Ultrabooks, slates, tablets - even smartphones.

How much control does Microsoft have over that? Absolutely none.

Apart from tablets 95% of notebooks, netbooks, Ultrabooks come with Windows 7, so um what?

They are doing this to try and take some of the tablet market which will never happen in a trillion years at the expense of the desktop users, I hope this doesnt come back to bite them in the ass.

[BajiRav]

Because quite a few very vocal people here (and Paul himself) are saying, in effect, "if you don't like it, **** off, your opinion doesn't matter".

I thought Paul was suggesting that people should give the new start screen(+ other stuff) a serious try (you know, more than 5mins or few hrs) before going bat**** crazy over it.

On the other hand :D fact is, this is Microsoft's OS and they are going to make it the way they want. I think this will be their final boot logo,

( http://h12.abload.de/img/h4dealwithit3ku32.gif )

[TheLegendOfMart]

I thought Paul was suggesting that people should give the new start screen(+ other stuff) a serious try (you know, more than 5mins or few hrs) before going bat**** crazy over it.

On the other hand :D fact is, this is Microsoft's OS and they are going to make it the way they want. I think this will be their final boot logo,

( http://h12.abload.de...withit3ku32.gif )

Its not just the start screen people are moaning about, its the fact that the OS is going touch orientated when most of the people who will use Windows 8 will be on non-touchscreen devices.

[Steven P. Administrators]

While I dislike Metro, I either want Microsoft to remove it completely from the deskop or keep it in. What I don't want to have them do is have it in some versions of windows and not others. Support nightmare. They also have to NUKE the basic version. All I can think of was Vista Basic....AHHH!!!! The Lack of Aero on Basic was terrible, always made the OS feel sluggish.

Not really, that's why I still have Windows Media Center in my Ultimate Windows 7 Edition, but I don't have to or want to use it, so yeah :p

[LaP]

Appealing for common sense in people in this day and age is also a waste of time. There isn't any left.

Specially since the one appealing, Paul Thurrott, doesn't have any. This guy is a fanboy (or act like one to make money i can't really tell).

[Stoffel]

Its not just the start screen people are moaning about, its the fact that the OS is going touch orientated when most of the people who will use Windows 8 will be on non-touchscreen devices.

I have only used Win8 with a mouse and KB and have no issue at all.

True the OS is touch friendly now but it is still just as easy to use with other input

[~Johnny]

Specially since the one appealing, Paul Thurrott, doesn't have any. This guy is a fanboy.

Fanboy? He's been moaning a LOT about Windows 8 & Windows Phone, if you've been keeping up with his posts for the last couple of years. Apparently he was a little miffed Microsoft decided to stop keeping him in the loop :p

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Its not just the start screen people are moaning about, its the fact that the OS is going touch orientated when most of the people who will use Windows 8 will be on non-touchscreen devices.

It's incredible that MS seems to be betting their company on a UI paradigm that is practically untested in the market, or in the case of WP7 has not found major success, and, basically on a whim, they're demoting the desktop UI paradigm that has been so hugely successful to act as a legacy environment even on desktops, something that their main competitor, you know, the company producing that iTablet thingy that people are going crazy over, doesn't actually seem to have any intention of doing. Pretty gutsy. Or maybe there's no other way. In any case, props to them if this works. Interesting times. :rofl:

[LaP]

Fanboy? He's been moaning a LOT about Windows 8 & Windows Phone, if you've been keeping up with his posts for the last couple of years. Apparently he was a little miffed Microsoft decided to stop keeping him in the loop :p

Actually no i've not read him for a long time. But from what i can remember when i was reading his "blog" something like 10 years ago he was a big microsoft advocate. I do remember him being sort of negative here and there in his look back articles and conclusion (specifically for the xbox unless i'm wrong). But honestly when you need to look back at something to have an unbiased look at it ... I sorta liked his articles to be honest cause i like MS products. For the most part it was well written and informative. I just felt the MS fanboy part of them like the one quoted under was unnecessary and did after a while kept me from reading him.

I wish I could start off this look back with a sentence like, "After a rough start, Zune won over consumers with its superior hardware, software, and services, relegating Apple and its lackluster iTunes solution to the backburner of history where it belongs." Alas, I cannot. Instead, I must settle for the following: After a rough start, Zune stopped trying to copy Apple and became the most innovative digital media platform of the past decade, with superior hardware, software, and services. Sadly, consumers never understood this, or cared, as Apple's iTunes platform simply surged ahead as if Zune didn't even exist.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I have only used Win8 with a mouse and KB and have no issue at all.

True the OS is touch friendly now but it is still just as easy to use with other input

I never said I had any issues, I said I disliked it.

[Woelfel]

What Paul was trying to say (and he said this during his podcast with Andrew Zarian yesterday) was not that there are things that are better or worse (specifically to desktop computing), but there are things that will not change in Windows 8 and that you have to "deal with it."

(back to me) Things that I believe people will have to deal with:

• Start Menu & button = Gone and it won't come back, it is now the start menu
  
• Metro Apps being full screen (and part screen)
  
• Charms bar
  
• App bar
  
• Invisible corners
  

Now there are things that can improve with Windows 8 (and some in which I'm sure the Windows team will take into account

• Put the power button with the log off menu (just so people can stfu about that...it's really irritating that of all things, people moan about that)
  
• Put icons with the snapshot of running apps (I can't discern quickly which app is which...icons would help)
  
• Easily adjust the time in which the charms bar comes up (or make it like how the running apps come up...fast)
  
• Have all control panel that are currently in the desktop, go into the Metro Control Panel (and not have "More PC Settings" as a way to get there)
  

These are all OS stuff, not app stuff (which clearly state preview yet people still moan about it, just give feedback...). What I won't list are things that go backwards to the way Windows 7 did it.

Like Jay-Z said: "People want my old s***, buy my old albums/ N***** stuck on stupid, I gotta keep it movin/N***** make the same s***, me I make the 'The Blueprints'."

I feel that is Microsoft's way of thinking.

[techguy77]

What Paul was trying to say (and he said this during his podcast with Andrew Zarian yesterday) was not that there are things that are better or worse (specifically to desktop computing), but there are things that will not change in Windows 8 and that you have to "deal with it."

(back to me) Things that I believe people will have to deal with:

• Start Menu & button = Gone and it won't come back, it is now the start menu
  
• Metro Apps being full screen (and part screen)
  
• Charms bar
  
• App bar
  
• Invisible corners
  

Now there are things that can improve with Windows 8 (and some in which I'm sure the Windows team will take into account

• Put the power button with the log off menu (just so people can stfu about that...it's really irritating that of all things, people moan about that)
  
• Put icons with the snapshot of running apps (I can't discern quickly which app is which...icons would help)
  
• Easily adjust the time in which the charms bar comes up (or make it like how the running apps come up...fast)
  
• Have all control panel that are currently in the desktop, go into the Metro Control Panel (and not have "More PC Settings" as a way to get there)
  

These are all OS stuff, not app stuff (which clearly state preview yet people still moan about it, just give feedback...). What I won't list are things that go backwards to the way Windows 7 did it.

Like Jay-Z said: "People want my old s***, buy my old albums/ N***** stuck on stupid, I gotta keep it movin/N***** make the same s***, me I make the 'The Blueprints'."

I feel that is Microsoft's way of thinking.

I wonder what is the reasoning behind using corners. I watched Win 8 CP presentation and guy was talking about it but it nothing made sense. It seems that Windows 8 initially was developed and tested only on Tablets and then they tried to figure out Usability for people with mouse and keyboard which ended up like it is now. Few things MS could do is to put back start button to avoid confusion, let people Snap Metro App to Desktop taking half of screen if user chooses so because what they have now is useless (not enough room for content to be displayed in some meaningful way). Charm Bar should be on top of the screen, it would make more sense. Put the power button with the log off menu. This is assuming MS wont change anything as far as Metro goes. Ideally they would give people option to disable it so everyone can be happy. It wont be harm to MS if people disable Metro because there will be people using it and of course Tablets will have it anyway. Windows OS is overall the ugliest OS every made and its UI is bottom of every design ever was made in IT industry. I am sure Steve Jobs would have a good laugh about it. When you snap Metro App and you look at it next to Desktop a word Consistency becomes a million dollar question. Obviously MS would love to put more into Metro but they don't have time for it and since WinRT is not matured some Win32 Applications are impossible to replace yet. What my 'Time Machine' tells me is that Desktop will go away eventually and unfortunately. Interestingly enough MS will find themselves chasing a tail because Metro will end up having of Role Desktop used to have and at the end they are going to face same questions they had before they developed Windows 8. It is quite amusing that lot of people call Metro improvement but infact Metro is nothing but modern Windows 1 interface. It is same concept, same idea, same vision. One place to launch everything, no concept of Multitasking. The answer for this is very simple. Phone and Tablets are very limited devices and as such it required to go backwards with Windows UI and they came up with Metro which is essentially Windows 1 on Steroids at the same risking Desktop Market Share and ruining Desktop Experience. Metro happened by an accident but it is also natural solution for devices such as Tablets and Phones. Again it comes down to very definition of PC and that is PC is not a Tablet and Phone where MS puts = sign.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I wonder what is the reasoning behind using corners.

The reasoning is that they aimed Windows 8 for use on tablets and optimising the UI for finger touch because your thumbs are naturally at the edge of the screen which is why you can just swipe from the edges and the only way they could get it working acceptably using a cursor is the 4 corners because its "easy" to just swipe the cursor into the four corners without looking.

Microsoft doesnt give a flying frick about desktop users anymore only about how much marketshare they can take from Apple, which wont be a lot.

[BajiRav]

I wonder what is the reasoning behind using corners.

Ever heard of Fitt's law? That's why start button is in a corner like it is/was.