Linux Controversy on Neowin


 Share

Recommended Posts

Karl L.

Although I don't have many posts yet, I regularly read Neowin's news articles, lurk the forums, and occasionally comment. All-in-all I would say that I visit Neowin on a regular basis. One of the things that I really appreciate about this site is the community. I really enjoy reading other people's opinions on various topics, particularly for the insight that different opinions provide.

However, there is a general trend that I have noticed here, and that is the susceptibility of any threads mentioning Linux to get ridiculed (with the possible exception of Android). I'd like to emphasize, again, that I really like different opinions; what I don't like is the general hostility toward open-source software, particularly with the heavy use of straw-man arguments. For example, someone will say some like "This is the year of the Linux desktop!", usually in a sarcastic or derogatory way, and aggravate the issue. Again.

To be clear, I am a user of Debian Linux. I write open-source code. I enjoy contributing to open-source projects. The vast majority of the software that I use is open-source. However, that doesn't mean that I hate Windows, or other proprietary systems, don't understand them, or even dislike them. I dual-boot Debian and Windows on my desktop so I can play awesome games, like TF2, while still having all the flexibility and power of the Debian ecosystem at my disposal. I write (mostly open-source) programs for Windows, a few of which I actively maintain. I don't generally like to get into the "Which OS do you prefer?" debate because it is ultimately just a personal preference. I use what works for me. I use what I like. I suggest that others do the same, regardless of what that OS may be.

So, after that long-winded explanation, I have a question for the Neowin community. I would ask "Why can't we mention Linux without major controversy?", but that won't really answer anything. What I really want to know is, what do you find enticing about the idea of bashing an entire OS? And, as a corollary, why does it matter to you? If you don't agree with or participate in this activity, as I'm sure many of you don't, why not? My answer to this mufti-faceted question is what I mentioned near the end of the paragraph above: "I use what works for me. I use what I like." (Which, at the moment, is Debian Squeeze with the Gnome 2 desktop environment.)

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

Anibal P

There will always be Trolls in any community, best thing to do is ignore them

As for specifically Linux trolls, they generally fall into the category as computer "users" that can barely keep a Windows install working and clean sot they feel the need to ridicule Linux since it has less users, again they are to be ignored

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Zeikku

I think it's because when Neowin was founded it provided the latest and greatest news on Microsoft platforms. Most people here prefer Microsoft news and products. Android is a practical and relevant mobile OS so it's appreciated too. I use Linux and know developers for Linux and I have no problem with it. However, it has a limited audience and field and most news regarding it are specific, which may or may not appeal to the people of Neowin. I could be wrong and if I am, I'd be happy to post about Linux - It's a fantastic OS.

Link to post
Share on other sites

AJerman

Haters gonna hate!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

subcld

same thing you can say about linux community when anyone mention windows

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hum

I would ask "Why can't we mention Linux without major controversy?"

Neowin die-heartedly promotes Microsoft.

Linix is fine.

There are no standards that matter but your own.

PS -- You look delightfully insane :p

post-37120-0-81564800-1331068398.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

John S.

Unfortunately OS/browser/console wars have been going on since before I came here. I still can't understand the vitriol, how does what one person chooses to use detract from another? Choose what works best for you and enjoy it.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

threetonesun

It is a bit odd, if you ask most Linux users these days about Windows, they'll have the same reaction as you ("yup, it works, I play games on it sometimes"). I think some of the flak is hanging around from the days when Windows sucked and Linux was sooooo very close to being definitely better (like, pre-XP), and people were pretty vehement about which was the best.

Link to post
Share on other sites

remixedcat

Thing is the Linux community and many open source communities can be downright hostile. They spend more time arguing instead of innovating and they attack anyone with any suggestions to really improve things.

I've recently tried to assist a forum software community MyBB and I offered suggestions to help thier hosting situation (they were DDoS attacked (hmmm that might tell yah somethin about them huh???) and I was met with hostility. Many have tried to help them out or suggest things to them and they were attacked and treated rudely. I would never use that forum software as a result. Also many of the support techs were 16 year olds that had god complexes.

They must have done something really bad to people if they got DDoS attacked for about 2 weeks straight.

Link to post
Share on other sites

paxa

opinions are like a**holes, everyone has got one....so don't fret about the comments or such

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

+virtorio

Some (aka a lot of) people on forums enjoy being ######. You can't really mention OSX here without a similar thing happening (maybe not quite as bad).

In reverse, mention Windows on sites like MacRumors or any Linux forums and the same thing happens.

Same goes for consoles, browsers, and even office suites.

Link to post
Share on other sites

MidnightDevil

But even <snipped> should be respected.

Edited by Barney
foul language
Link to post
Share on other sites

abecedarian paradoxious

opinions are like a**holes, everyone has got one....so don't fret about the comments or such

Actually, the quote is along the lines of:

"Opinions are like arse holes: everyone has one and they all stink."

Sometimes "stink" is replaced by "smell like...", "wreak of...", "are..." ? "shat".

If Linux, regardless the flavor, were half it was hyped to be, it would be a major contender in the realm of reality.

Sadly, it's not... for the reasons mentioned by the several previous members' posts, as well as many who follow.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Barney T.

I am also a huge Linux fan. I use Debian also, and I have to echo the comments that we have trolls in every forum here. While we discourage this behavior (and promote unity amongst all tech advocates no matter who they support) we still have them. Neowin has supported Linux and Linux based discussions for many years. We have had community Linux projects (Shift Linux) that were supported by the management of Neowin. We had access to server space, and were given permission for the masses to download the various iso files as we made them. We were given our own IRC channels and were promoted whenever the opportunity arose.

I personally was the moderator for the Linux section (back when....) and I found the discussions to be civil and polite. Does that mean that we had no trolls or zealots? No, it didn't. But the vast number of members posted intellegent questions, comments and articles from around the web.

I speak from past experience, however, please remember that our community is only as good as our members. And 99% of them are excellent (Y).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

simplezz

with the possible exception of Android

Android is subject to the same ridicule, albeit on a smaller scale. The typical responses are - "Android lags", "it's slow", "Android is infested with malware". You can safely ignore all that though :)

The same goes for "It's the year of Linux!!11!!" or anything of that effect. Best to leave the trolls to their own spiteful comments. By replying to them directly you spur them on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sranshaft

Exactly as everyone has said before. There's always going to be people expressing opinions as facts and will vehemently defend those opinions. And with the added benefit of anonymity, people tend to be ###### more than they would in real-life - or maybe their dick-ish ways are magnified by the lens of anonymity.

Android is subject to the same ridicule, albeit on a smaller scale. The typical responses are - "Android lags", "it's slow", "Android is infested with malware". You can safely ignore all that though :)

Still though, those are all true facts and not opinions. :shiftyninja:

Link to post
Share on other sites

ArialBlue

People need to choose forums where their bias is supported, not opposed.

You don't like that majority of us don't like Linux, talk about Linux on a forum where most everyone hates Windows.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yorak

As others have said, this has been going on for ages. I have commented a few times out of frustration with gaming in Linux, but overall I much appreciate anything opensource. I realize now that if I want to play modern games, I play on Windows. That is the bottom line. I do not blame Linux entirely for what it lacks, but for lack of motivation of developers to make native games. Other than that, I absolutely love Linux. I have been using Arch on and off for years. I like to test the new distributions when they come out to see what changes they have brought to the table.

So I guess what I am saying is to attempt ignoring the fools. There will always be OS wars, console wars, Android/iOS/Windows Mobile wars. This is just the nature of preference and options.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

n_K

"This is the year of the Linux desktop!"

I use linux on everything, but this is a long running joke, loads of public linux speakers have mentioned statements similiar to it and it's never materialised.

Link to post
Share on other sites

episode

I have a question for the Neowin community. I would ask "Why can't we mention Linux without major controversy?"

Because Linux has turned into a joke. Sorry, but that is how it is.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Seizure1990

Guys, guys, guys, let's stop focusing on our differences, and instead, focus on what we can agree on:

**** BSD.

Link to post
Share on other sites

nohone

Just more of the usual whining about not being treated like a god because their favorite OS is Linux or OS X. Do me a favor - go to slashdot.org or macrumors.com, and pick a post, any post. Then post a comment as simple as "I use Microsoft Windows because it offers me features Linux|OSX does not" and feel the love you get back. Now magnify that by 15 years of people "hating" on anyone who was a Microsoft user.

The posts by people who are upset because they feel like they are not getting the love they think they deserve when people say that Linux|OSx do not meet their needs are just pathetic. The first time I heard the phrase "hater" was by my 9 year old niece, who was calling people who did not like Justin Bieber's music haters. She was 9 years old, and it was expected from someone of that age. How old are you?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

SirEvan

Why don't you tell us what's so great about Linux? I use both Ubuntu and Windows (at home and work) and I really can't see why linux is great at all. Uptime? My windows server boxes have all had 300+ day uptime (only going down for updates or moves). Viruses? I've never had a virus on my windows systems. Ease of use? sorry, but

dir /p
is easier for me to remember then something like
ls -al | grep -name >>$1
memory footprint? Windows itself consumes less than 1GB of ram. I've got 16GB in my desktop and server at home, and 64GB in servers at work, so I don't care. I actually prefer the way windows uses memory.

So tell me what the allure is, besides that it's free. Cost alone is not enough to justify something's greatness.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anibal P

Gotta love when the comments in this thread prove the OP's point

A whole lot of people posting their opinions on Linux when the thread isn't about that, it's about why you HAVE to have on something, especially if you don't use it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Charisma

People need to choose forums where their bias is supported, not opposed.

You don't like that majority of us don't like Linux, talk about Linux on a forum where most everyone hates Windows.

The point, I think, is that this should be a balanced sort of forum where all kinds of users are welcome and can discuss their own setup. Neowin's come a long way from where it started, it shouldn't be that biased anymore.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By News Staff
      Get this free Linux Cheat Sheet Bundle
      by Steven Parker

      Claim your complimentary free cheat sheet, before the offer expires.



      A free collection of downloadable cheat sheets to help you get the most from Linux.

      Linux is a free and open source operating system. It's been around since 1991, but it continues to be an important alternative choice away from Windows and Mac.



      We've put together this collection of cheat sheets that you can download and print off to keep by your side. They'll help you navigate the operating system and its programs effectively and get the most out of them.

      This bundle contains:

      Chrome OS shortcuts Linux commands Tmux commands Vin commands Download today!

      How to get it:
      Complete and verifiable information is required in order to receive this offer. If you have previously made use of these free offers, you will not need to re-register. While supplies last! Please ensure you read the terms and conditions to claim this offer.

      >> Linux Cheat Sheet Bundle - Free download <<
      Offered by MakeUseOf, view their other free resources. Limited time offer.

      Not for you?
      That's OK, there are other free eBooks on offer you can check out here.

      Ivacy VPN - 5 years at 87% off NordVPN - 2 years at up to 68% off Private Internet Access VPN - subscriptions at up to 79% off Unlocator VPN or SmartDNS - unblock Geoblock with 7-day free trial Neowin Store for our preferred partners. Subscribe to Neowin - for $14 a year, or $28 a year for Ad-Free experience Giveaways: Polycade Home Arcade | $5K in cash | $10K in Crypto | Gaming Bundle Disable Sponsored posts · Neowin Deals · Free eBooks · Neowin Store

      Disclosure: A valid email address is required to fulfill your request. Complete and verifiable information is required in order to receive this offer. By submitting a request, your information is subject to TradePub.com's Privacy Policy.

    • By Abhay V
      AdDuplex: Windows 10 version 21H1 is now on over 26% of PCs, Windows 11 makes its debut
      by Abhay Venkatesh

      After a gap of a couple of months, AdDuplex has released its Windows version usage report for the month of July. The report is collected from 5,000 Microsoft Store apps that are running the AdDuplex SDK v.2 or higher, and around 60,000 Windows PCs were sampled for this report. This month’s highlight is the debut of Windows 11, which was formally announced in June. As for Windows 10, version 21H1 that was released in May is now running on over 26% of Windows machines.

      Just like the October 2020 Update, the Windows 10 May 2021 Update was an enablement package that light up new features in the OS. The underlying codebase for 21H1, however, is identical to versions 20H2 and 2004, meaning that the three most recent versions are serviced with the same cumulative updates. It is, therefore, not surprising to see that the rollout of the latest version has been faster than the previous versions has seen. This is only expected to increase as version 2004 begins to reach the end of support for consumer SKUs.

      With Windows 10 21H1 now on more than 26% of PCs, the three latest versions of the OS account for close to 88% of usage share. The title for the most famous version of Windows 10 is retained by version 20H2 at 36.3%, followed by version 2004 at 24.6%. Windows Insiders running Windows 11 in the Dev channel account for close to 1% of total devices.

      Windows 10 version 21H2 is also slated to be an enablement package. However, with Windows 11 expected to begin rolling out later this year, it will be interesting to see how the usage share changes, since there are still questions about the pace of the rollout and what the final hardware specifications will be.

    • By anmol112
      Hands-on with the new Microsoft Teams experience for Windows 11
      by Anmol Mehrotra



      Earlier this week, Microsoft released another Windows 11 build to Windows Insiders in the Dev Preview ring. The new build brought improvements to the UI as well as the new Microsoft Teams integration. Microsoft announced the Teams integration at the Windows 11 launch event last month. With the feature now rolling out to Windows Insiders, we decided to take a closer look at the new Teams integration for Windows 11.

      First time setup
      After you install the new Windows 11 build, you will see a Teams icon on the taskbar. Clicking on the option will open Team for the first-time setup. The setup is pretty simple.

      Microsoft allows you to use your regular MSA account for personal use. You can also use your work or school account if you have one and want it easily accessible.

      Once you select the account, Microsoft will ask you to verify ownership (if you have two-factor authentication) as well as add a phone number. This will add as a secondary username and also allow others to find you on Teams.

      Lastly, Microsoft will confirm the settings and ask you if you want to use your existing Outlook or Skype contact list to find people on Microsoft Teams. One thing to note here is that if you have used Windows Phone in the past or you use Outlook to sync your contacts then you will see your address book on Teams (provided you selected the sync Outlook contact list on the last step).

      Using the app
      The experience is same more or less. However, with a personal Teams account, users can now use it as way to stay connected to their loved ones. Moreover, you can now enter an email address to send a Teams message to them.

      This works in two parts: if the person already uses Teams, they will get a general chat notification. However, if the person you are messaging does not use Teams, they will get an email inviting them to join Teams and continue the chat.

      One thing that I personally believe can enhance the Teams experience is the support for SMS. While you can message people using phone numbers, they have to be in your contacts. Unfortunately, you can’t directly start a conversation with someone if they are not in your contacts. This is something that Microsoft can add in the future to allow users to start conversations by just entering the phone number of the person they want to talk to and if the person is not on Teams, they will get an invite to join the app.

      However, there is one way to invite others to a text chain and that is via the 'invite using link' option. As the name suggests, the option generates a custom link that can be shared with others to allow them to join a conversation.

      Lastly, Microsoft is also expected to merge the Meet Now feature into Teams in the feature. It will further enhance the user experience by allowing users to make audio and video calls using Microsoft Teams. Currently, the feature exists just as a placeholder button, but the company is expected to add it before Windows 11 is shipped as an update to existing Windows users.

      Do you plan to use Microsoft Teams on Windows 11? Let us know your thoughts below.

      For more information on Windows 11, you can check out our article on minimum system requirements as well as the list of CPUs that support Windows 11. Apart from the general requirements, Microsoft has also listed out specific feature requirements for Windows 11 including webcams, Bluetooth and Precision Touchpad on all upcoming laptops. Last month, Microsoft also updated the PC Health Check app to show why a device is not ineligible to receive the Windows 11 update. However, the company will allow some manufacturers to bypass the TPM 2.0 requirement and it is also allowing Windows Insiders with unsupported hardware to test Windows 11 Insider Builds. Several manufacturers have published a list of hardware that will be compatible with Windows 11.

      If you are still out of the loop, then you can check out hands-on video. If you want to get in-depth information about Windows 11 then you can check out our article covering all the new features and changes.

    • By anmol112
      How to fix Windows Hello not working in the latest Windows 11 build 22000.100
      by Anmol Mehrotra



      Yesterday, Microsoft released another Windows 11 build to Windows Insiders in the Dev Preview ring. The new build brought improvements to the UI as well as the new Microsoft Teams integration. However, it also came with a bunch of known issues, one of which was the broken Windows Hello.

      Fortunately, there is an easy fix for "Something went wrong" error when trying to use Windows Hello on Windows 11. If you are facing the issue, then you can follow the steps below to get the issue fixed:

      Click on Windows Search or the Windows button Type "Device Manager" and click on 'open'. You can also right-click on the Windows button and select Device Manager. Once Device Manager is opened, double-click on "Biometric devices" Now right-click on "Windows Hello Face Software Device" and click on 'uninstall device' Once done, reboot the system, let Windows download and install the latest drivers After the installation is finished, Windows Hello should be good to go. We hope Microsoft fixes this issue in the future build. While not critical, the issue certainly can be a pain for users who rely on Windows Hello to sign-in to their devices.

      For more information on Windows 11, you can check out our article on minimum system requirements as well as the list of CPUs that support Windows 11. Apart from the general requirements, Microsoft has also listed out specific feature requirements for Windows 11 including webcams, Bluetooth and Precision Touchpad on all upcoming laptops. Last month, Microsoft also updated the PC Health Check app to show why a device is not ineligible to receive the Windows 11 update. However, the company will allow some manufacturers to bypass the TPM 2.0 requirement and it is also allowing Windows Insiders with unsupported hardware to test Windows 11 Insider Builds. Several manufacturers have published a list of hardware that will be compatible with Windows 11.

      If you are still out of the loop, then you can check out hands-on video. If you want to get in-depth information about Windows 11 then you can check out our article covering all the new features and changes.

    • By Abhay V
      Here are the known issues in Windows 11 build 22000.100
      by Abhay Venkatesh

      Microsoft today rolled out Windows 11 build 22000.100 to Insiders running Dev channel builds. The cumulative update brings with it - among other things - improvements to the taskbar UI and the system tray, adding subtle design improvements, in line with the Windows 11 experience.

      The improvements include a better UI for the system tray, along with a new visual cue for when an app requires attention on the taskbar thanks to a background task. However, the ability to run Android apps, something that the firm announced during the Windows 11 unveil event, is yet to be added. When it does make it to the OS, it will happen through the Amazon Store that will be housed within the Microsoft Store.

      The firm isn't bringing any huge changes to the OS, as it is still addressing bugs and reliability concerns that are being reported by users running the Dev channel builds, while prepping the builds for the Beta channel. However, along with the list of bugs fixes, there are still a bunch of known issues that are being tracked. Here is the complete list of issues in Windows 11 build 22000.100:

      Issues such as the File Explorer bug might make it difficult for users to run apps reliably, so it is best to be aware of the problems before considering these builds for your daily driver. Additionally, there are some Windows Hello issues that have workarounds.

      Windows 11 build 22000.100 is rolling out via Windows Update to Dev channel users running the latest version of the OS. The release to the Beta channel should happen soon as the firm skipped releasing the latest 21H1 updates, citing the impending release of Windows 11 builds. Currently, there aren't any official ISOs available either for those hoping to perform a clean install of these builds.