Linux Controversy on Neowin

[Karl L.]

Although I don't have many posts yet, I regularly read Neowin's news articles, lurk the forums, and occasionally comment. All-in-all I would say that I visit Neowin on a regular basis. One of the things that I really appreciate about this site is the community. I really enjoy reading other people's opinions on various topics, particularly for the insight that different opinions provide.

However, there is a general trend that I have noticed here, and that is the susceptibility of any threads mentioning Linux to get ridiculed (with the possible exception of Android). I'd like to emphasize, again, that I really like different opinions; what I don't like is the general hostility toward open-source software, particularly with the heavy use of straw-man arguments. For example, someone will say some like "This is the year of the Linux desktop!", usually in a sarcastic or derogatory way, and aggravate the issue. Again.

To be clear, I am a user of Debian Linux. I write open-source code. I enjoy contributing to open-source projects. The vast majority of the software that I use is open-source. However, that doesn't mean that I hate Windows, or other proprietary systems, don't understand them, or even dislike them. I dual-boot Debian and Windows on my desktop so I can play awesome games, like TF2, while still having all the flexibility and power of the Debian ecosystem at my disposal. I write (mostly open-source) programs for Windows, a few of which I actively maintain. I don't generally like to get into the "Which OS do you prefer?" debate because it is ultimately just a personal preference. I use what works for me. I use what I like. I suggest that others do the same, regardless of what that OS may be.

So, after that long-winded explanation, I have a question for the Neowin community. I would ask "Why can't we mention Linux without major controversy?", but that won't really answer anything. What I really want to know is, what do you find enticing about the idea of bashing an entire OS? And, as a corollary, why does it matter to you? If you don't agree with or participate in this activity, as I'm sure many of you don't, why not? My answer to this mufti-faceted question is what I mentioned near the end of the paragraph above: "I use what works for me. I use what I like." (Which, at the moment, is Debian Squeeze with the Gnome 2 desktop environment.)

[Anibal P]

There will always be Trolls in any community, best thing to do is ignore them

As for specifically Linux trolls, they generally fall into the category as computer "users" that can barely keep a Windows install working and clean sot they feel the need to ridicule Linux since it has less users, again they are to be ignored

[Zeikku]

I think it's because when Neowin was founded it provided the latest and greatest news on Microsoft platforms. Most people here prefer Microsoft news and products. Android is a practical and relevant mobile OS so it's appreciated too. I use Linux and know developers for Linux and I have no problem with it. However, it has a limited audience and field and most news regarding it are specific, which may or may not appeal to the people of Neowin. I could be wrong and if I am, I'd be happy to post about Linux - It's a fantastic OS.

[AJerman]

Haters gonna hate!

[subcld]

same thing you can say about linux community when anyone mention windows

[Hum]

I would ask "Why can't we mention Linux without major controversy?"

Neowin die-heartedly promotes Microsoft.

Linix is fine.

There are no standards that matter but your own.

PS -- You look delightfully insane :p

[John S. Veteran]

Unfortunately OS/browser/console wars have been going on since before I came here. I still can't understand the vitriol, how does what one person chooses to use detract from another? Choose what works best for you and enjoy it.

[threetonesun]

It is a bit odd, if you ask most Linux users these days about Windows, they'll have the same reaction as you ("yup, it works, I play games on it sometimes"). I think some of the flak is hanging around from the days when Windows sucked and Linux was sooooo very close to being definitely better (like, pre-XP), and people were pretty vehement about which was the best.

[remixedcat]

Thing is the Linux community and many open source communities can be downright hostile. They spend more time arguing instead of innovating and they attack anyone with any suggestions to really improve things.

I've recently tried to assist a forum software community MyBB and I offered suggestions to help thier hosting situation (they were DDoS attacked (hmmm that might tell yah somethin about them huh???) and I was met with hostility. Many have tried to help them out or suggest things to them and they were attacked and treated rudely. I would never use that forum software as a result. Also many of the support techs were 16 year olds that had god complexes.

They must have done something really bad to people if they got DDoS attacked for about 2 weeks straight.

[paxa]

opinions are like a**holes, everyone has got one....so don't fret about the comments or such

[+virtorio MVC]

Some (aka a lot of) people on forums enjoy being ######. You can't really mention OSX here without a similar thing happening (maybe not quite as bad).

In reverse, mention Windows on sites like MacRumors or any Linux forums and the same thing happens.

Same goes for consoles, browsers, and even office suites.

[MidnightDevil]

But even <snipped> should be respected.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Barney
foul language

[abecedarian paradoxious]

opinions are like a**holes, everyone has got one....so don't fret about the comments or such

Actually, the quote is along the lines of:

"Opinions are like arse holes: everyone has one and they all stink."

Sometimes "stink" is replaced by "smell like...", "wreak of...", "are..." ? "shat".

If Linux, regardless the flavor, were half it was hyped to be, it would be a major contender in the realm of reality.

Sadly, it's not... for the reasons mentioned by the several previous members' posts, as well as many who follow.

[Barney T. Administrators]

I am also a huge Linux fan. I use Debian also, and I have to echo the comments that we have trolls in every forum here. While we discourage this behavior (and promote unity amongst all tech advocates no matter who they support) we still have them. Neowin has supported Linux and Linux based discussions for many years. We have had community Linux projects (Shift Linux) that were supported by the management of Neowin. We had access to server space, and were given permission for the masses to download the various iso files as we made them. We were given our own IRC channels and were promoted whenever the opportunity arose.

I personally was the moderator for the Linux section (back when....) and I found the discussions to be civil and polite. Does that mean that we had no trolls or zealots? No, it didn't. But the vast number of members posted intellegent questions, comments and articles from around the web.

I speak from past experience, however, please remember that our community is only as good as our members. And 99% of them are excellent (Y).

[simplezz]

with the possible exception of Android

Android is subject to the same ridicule, albeit on a smaller scale. The typical responses are - "Android lags", "it's slow", "Android is infested with malware". You can safely ignore all that though :)

The same goes for "It's the year of Linux!!11!!" or anything of that effect. Best to leave the trolls to their own spiteful comments. By replying to them directly you spur them on.

[Sranshaft]

Exactly as everyone has said before. There's always going to be people expressing opinions as facts and will vehemently defend those opinions. And with the added benefit of anonymity, people tend to be ###### more than they would in real-life - or maybe their dick-ish ways are magnified by the lens of anonymity.

Android is subject to the same ridicule, albeit on a smaller scale. The typical responses are - "Android lags", "it's slow", "Android is infested with malware". You can safely ignore all that though :)

Still though, those are all true facts and not opinions. :shiftyninja:

[ArialBlue]

People need to choose forums where their bias is supported, not opposed.

You don't like that majority of us don't like Linux, talk about Linux on a forum where most everyone hates Windows.

[Yorak]

As others have said, this has been going on for ages. I have commented a few times out of frustration with gaming in Linux, but overall I much appreciate anything opensource. I realize now that if I want to play modern games, I play on Windows. That is the bottom line. I do not blame Linux entirely for what it lacks, but for lack of motivation of developers to make native games. Other than that, I absolutely love Linux. I have been using Arch on and off for years. I like to test the new distributions when they come out to see what changes they have brought to the table.

So I guess what I am saying is to attempt ignoring the fools. There will always be OS wars, console wars, Android/iOS/Windows Mobile wars. This is just the nature of preference and options.

[n_K]

"This is the year of the Linux desktop!"

I use linux on everything, but this is a long running joke, loads of public linux speakers have mentioned statements similiar to it and it's never materialised.

[episode]

I have a question for the Neowin community. I would ask "Why can't we mention Linux without major controversy?"

Because Linux has turned into a joke. Sorry, but that is how it is.

[Seizure1990]

Guys, guys, guys, let's stop focusing on our differences, and instead, focus on what we can agree on:

**** BSD.

[nohone]

Just more of the usual whining about not being treated like a god because their favorite OS is Linux or OS X. Do me a favor - go to slashdot.org or macrumors.com, and pick a post, any post. Then post a comment as simple as "I use Microsoft Windows because it offers me features Linux|OSX does not" and feel the love you get back. Now magnify that by 15 years of people "hating" on anyone who was a Microsoft user.

The posts by people who are upset because they feel like they are not getting the love they think they deserve when people say that Linux|OSx do not meet their needs are just pathetic. The first time I heard the phrase "hater" was by my 9 year old niece, who was calling people who did not like Justin Bieber's music haters. She was 9 years old, and it was expected from someone of that age. How old are you?

[SirEvan]

Why don't you tell us what's so great about Linux? I use both Ubuntu and Windows (at home and work) and I really can't see why linux is great at all. Uptime? My windows server boxes have all had 300+ day uptime (only going down for updates or moves). Viruses? I've never had a virus on my windows systems. Ease of use? sorry, but

dir /p

is easier for me to remember then something like

ls -al | grep -name >>$1

memory footprint? Windows itself consumes less than 1GB of ram. I've got 16GB in my desktop and server at home, and 64GB in servers at work, so I don't care. I actually prefer the way windows uses memory.

So tell me what the allure is, besides that it's free. Cost alone is not enough to justify something's greatness.

[Anibal P]

Gotta love when the comments in this thread prove the OP's point

A whole lot of people posting their opinions on Linux when the thread isn't about that, it's about why you HAVE to have on something, especially if you don't use it.

[Charisma Veteran]

People need to choose forums where their bias is supported, not opposed.

You don't like that majority of us don't like Linux, talk about Linux on a forum where most everyone hates Windows.

The point, I think, is that this should be a balanced sort of forum where all kinds of users are welcome and can discuss their own setup. Neowin's come a long way from where it started, it shouldn't be that biased anymore.