Linux Controversy on Neowin

[Chasethebase Veteran]

It's true, these sort of arguments have been around since time began, a case of 'X is better than Y' based on personal opinion only.

Linux is great, and a good alternative desktop OS which could do well on its own. For certain uses it is very good, and I've used it in a couple of environments where it works well, as a media centre and as a desktop OS.

It's just a shame that a few people, have to be so vocal about their opinions.

[SirEvan]

Gotta love when the comments in this thread prove the OP's point

A whole lot of people posting their opinions on Linux when the thread isn't about that, it's about why you HAVE to have on something, especially if you don't use it.

I hope your comment wasn't directed at me. I'm not expressing an opinion either way, I use both almost equally, but since the OP brought up a linux controversy, I'm asking him why he thinks it's great. I'm not ridiculing anything, I think linux is ok to use if you so choose (after all, it is free).

Trolls are gonna troll. I do hate apple and everything it stands for, but If anything I want to know why linux/mac fans bash windows all the time.

[Nashy]

I think it's because when Neowin was founded it provided the latest and greatest news on Microsoft platforms. Most people here prefer Microsoft news and products. Android is a practical and relevant mobile OS so it's appreciated too. I use Linux and know developers for Linux and I have no problem with it. However, it has a limited audience and field and most news regarding it are specific, which may or may not appeal to the people of Neowin. I could be wrong and if I am, I'd be happy to post about Linux - It's a fantastic OS.

I love the fact that the worst fragmentation in the world comes with all distros for free!

[bjoswald]

Sack up and deal with it. I use Linux too, but I also understand this is a Microsoft-based fan site. There's a couple of niche areas dedicated to off-subject material, but with a big community like this, you're bound to have morons arguing with each other (just like real life). Whining to the community about it or indirectly begging to "play nice" just pushes them to keep doing it. Ignore them, change threads, or don't visit. That's all you can do.

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

I don't know if it's just having been here for so long, or just getting older (and with a member base that gets younger and younger) but really sometimes the comments on some areas (especially the front page) make me want to re-enact the Picard 'facepalm' picture so often..

There's a lot of fanboyism out there, and it seems to be coupled with a disconnect from social grace and acceptability. There is an unbelievable amount of bravery and rudeness that comes over in discussion - quite often there are discussions where people are absolutely incapable of discussing merits of one product vs another without being condescending or flat out insulting. You just have to back away and leave them to it sometimes!

[Seizure1990]

Ah, the good old internet, letting people anonymously call each other ****wads over inconsequential matters of taste since the 80's.

[redfish]

I don't think most Windows users here ever cared about Linux one way or another. They just hated the Linux evangelists who would constantly attack Windows, how Microsoft was the "evil empire", Bill Gates was Locutus of Borg, and talk about the "year of desktop Linux." That's why the "year of the desktop Linux" gets turned back sarcastically, because it got on some peoples' nerves.

[dead.cell]

Many joke around about Linux, but I see little reason to get butthurt over it. I still make use of it when I need to, I still like to toy around with it, and it has saved me a couple times. Not the best experience compared to Windows, but works well for what I've done in IT over the years.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with people hating companies, software, products, or whatever so much. I have a bigger problem with people loving companies, brand names, and what have you. Like listening to Boz talk about Google like it's the holy grail. That kind of blindness to products and companies is completely retarded, I feel. Every company can and will take advantage of you, given the opportunity. We as consumers must keep them in check.

/mini-rant~

[Motoko.]

Next year will most certainly be the year of the Linux Desktop!

But really I enjoy using GNU/Linux and Windows on the different machines in my household. When I want to be technical and learn something I can use Linux and when I want pain free computing I can use Windows.

People in this world love to be divided into different sects, and align themselves with which that does not alienate them or they simply don't have to change so they would feel inclined to defend and/or ridicule others.

What can be said is that it has been the most wasted time spent debating on the internet, while everyone was bickering, fighting, and not thinking about what they were saying, they missed out on learning, collaborating, and having fun with different possibilities and ideas.

[Seizure1990]

Next year will most certainly be the year of the Linux Desktop!

1) Are you serious, or just kidding around?

2) What does this statement even mean? What qualifies as being "The Year of Linux"?

[Karl L.]

Thanks to everyone who posted replies. I enjoyed reading the discussion.

People need to choose forums where their bias is supported, not opposed.

You don't like that majority of us don't like Linux, talk about Linux on a forum where most everyone hates Windows.

_Heracles, I somewhat agree with your statement. Somewhat. In fact, the difference to which you refer (the exact opposite bias on some other forums) is part of what prompted my question.

Guys, guys, guys, let's stop focusing on our differences, and instead, focus on what we can agree on:

**** BSD.

Seizure1990, that post made me laugh more than any of the others in this thread. Thank you very much. You made my day!

Gotta love when the comments in this thread prove the OP's point

A whole lot of people posting their opinions on Linux when the thread isn't about that, it's about why you HAVE to have on something, especially if you don't use it.

I definitely agree with this. I think that some posts were a little off topic, although that's the nature of forums, I guess.

I hope your comment wasn't directed at me. I'm not expressing an opinion either way, I use both almost equally, but since the OP brought up a linux controversy, I'm asking him why he thinks it's great. I'm not ridiculing anything, I think linux is ok to use if you so choose (after all, it is free).

Although I definitely have reasons why I prefer the OS I use, I don't think this is the proper place to justify it. Its not that relevant to my question. If anything, all it will serve to do is derail this thread.

[mak123]

Neowin die-heartedly promotes Microsoft.

Linix is fine.

There are no standards that matter but your own.

PS -- You look delightfully insane :p

i think you hate linux more.....

most of features are copied from open sources i.e Linux..... :rofl:

[ILikeTobacco]

Everyone gets butt hurt when you bring up Linux because they don't want to admit this is going to be the year that Linux takes over. :shiftyninja:

[mak123]

independent os is linux.windows and others always dependent. because linux developers are providing various new changes....

[Krome]

Although I don't have many posts yet, I regularly read Neowin's news articles, lurk the forums, and occasionally comment. All-in-all I would say that I visit Neowin on a regular basis. One of the things that I really appreciate about this site is the community. I really enjoy reading other people's opinions on various topics, particularly for the insight that different opinions provide.

However, there is a general trend that I have noticed here, and that is the susceptibility of any threads mentioning Linux to get ridiculed (with the possible exception of Android). I'd like to emphasize, again, that I really like different opinions; what I don't like is the general hostility toward open-source software, particularly with the heavy use of straw-man arguments. For example, someone will say some like "This is the year of the Linux desktop!", usually in a sarcastic or derogatory way, and aggravate the issue. Again.

To be clear, I am a user of Debian Linux. I write open-source code. I enjoy contributing to open-source projects. The vast majority of the software that I use is open-source. However, that doesn't mean that I hate Windows, or other proprietary systems, don't understand them, or even dislike them. I dual-boot Debian and Windows on my desktop so I can play awesome games, like TF2, while still having all the flexibility and power of the Debian ecosystem at my disposal. I write (mostly open-source) programs for Windows, a few of which I actively maintain. I don't generally like to get into the "Which OS do you prefer?" debate because it is ultimately just a personal preference. I use what works for me. I use what I like. I suggest that others do the same, regardless of what that OS may be.

So, after that long-winded explanation, I have a question for the Neowin community. I would ask "Why can't we mention Linux without major controversy?", but that won't really answer anything. What I really want to know is, what do you find enticing about the idea of bashing an entire OS? And, as a corollary, why does it matter to you? If you don't agree with or participate in this activity, as I'm sure many of you don't, why not? My answer to this mufti-faceted question is what I mentioned near the end of the paragraph above: "I use what works for me. I use what I like." (Which, at the moment, is Debian Squeeze with the Gnome 2 desktop environment.)

Generally, what I see from many posters, I can sum up in a few words.

Those that have really nasty temper towards Linux remark made it clear in their post (and it shows) that they have no or little Linux experience.

Through-out my college/university years, I've been using VAX/VMS, Unix, Linux, Windows. Windows to me was not too solid in my field. Many of those powerful applications were not on Windows and even when it is on Windows, the feel and versatility cater towards a different approach.

I've resort to using Windows at home because it's a "plug-in and play" ready. Everything on Windows are made to be easy to use. No complexity nor learning curve is involved. Install OS, drivers, games, enjoy. With Linux, it's different. There's a learning curve and the OS has many flavor of configurability. That is why Linux has split towards many directions these days. The more complex it is, the more powerful that Linux setup is. This is why most Windows users do not know that many big corporations and governments and institution prefer Unix or Linux. The powerful and complexity of the OS are abundance. Windows flexibility are there but it require you to buy proprietary licensed software that cost thousands of dollars.

I've used Windows for many years because I don't want to use Wine or emulators (not sure if I can include "VMWare" as emulators these days) for dual-boot because to me it means I will not use full PC potential. I want to play the Windows-based games at it's full potential. Windows OS has a different approach for consumers. That is why there are Windows-based servers OS. Windows OS has a different structure when it comes to approach. Linux OS has a different approach. When it comes to comparing these two OS'es, one is leaning towards the ease of use which was for consumers, and the other (Linux) is for non-consumer use. Over the years, we have seen Linux adopting and leaning more and more towards ease of use. Linux when it was first introduce, I believe it was made to cater the institutions such as schools for the purpose of bridging Windows source codes to be ported to Unix/Linux based and vice-versa. It then slowly adopted by very few consumers.

It is the Windows users that have been so used to Windows based for so long that they do not see it's use in consumer market. There's so many fragments of arguments surrounding Linux versus Windows that boils down to two simple words, "mental tolerance". This is why there are many spills over the issues.

My conclusion in short would be, complexity endorses diversity.

I think it's because when Neowin was founded it provided the latest and greatest news on Microsoft platforms. Most people here prefer Microsoft news and products. Android is a practical and relevant mobile OS so it's appreciated too. I use Linux and know developers for Linux and I have no problem with it. However, it has a limited audience and field and most news regarding it are specific, which may or may not appeal to the people of Neowin. I could be wrong and if I am, I'd be happy to post about Linux - It's a fantastic OS.

That underline statement, I would say it's subjective.

Thing is the Linux community and many open source communities can be downright hostile. They spend more time arguing instead of innovating and they attack anyone with any suggestions to really improve things.

I've recently tried to assist a forum software community MyBB and I offered suggestions to help thier hosting situation (they were DDoS attacked (hmmm that might tell yah somethin about them huh???) and I was met with hostility. Many have tried to help them out or suggest things to them and they were attacked and treated rudely. I would never use that forum software as a result. Also many of the support techs were 16 year olds that had god complexes.

They must have done something really bad to people if they got DDoS attacked for about 2 weeks straight.

From reading your statement, my immediate judgement on that is that you have apply Windows based solution to a Linux based problem. Of course when you've learned and understand and aquainted with a certain ways of doing things and then there's someone who suggested something that was off the mark, you may get burn.

Actually, the quote is along the lines of:

"Opinions are like arse holes: everyone has one and they all stink."

Sometimes "stink" is replaced by "smell like...", "wreak of...", "are..." ? "shat".

If Linux, regardless the flavor, were half it was hyped to be, it would be a major contender in the realm of reality.

Sadly, it's not... for the reasons mentioned by the several previous members' posts, as well as many who follow.

From what I can tell from your statement there, it sounds like you are applying a reference of preference and taste rather than real experience. Hence, it's opinionated at best.

Because Linux has turned into a joke. Sorry, but that is how it is.

With strong statement like that, people can tell you how smart you are.

[remixedcat]

Thing is though many of the linux community treats any fresh new ideas as BS and they never want outside feedback, yet they cry themselves to sleep lamenting how nobody wants to use linux. They will never hit mainstream if they don't accept suggestions from the masses to improve.

[Seizure1990]

Thing is though many of the linux community treats any fresh new ideas as BS and they never want outside feedback, yet they cry themselves to sleep lamenting how nobody wants to use linux. They will never hit mainstream if they don't accept suggestions from the masses to improve.

I think they would instantly improve their chances if they stopped forcing you to use the terminal for everyday-computing while claiming that Linux is easy to learn for beginners... Yes, the terminal is a powerful tool, and I'm not saying they should get rid of it. But they should definitely add alternatives for many of its common uses. As an average user, I should not have to use the terminal to configure my computer, install applications, etc. I should only have to use it for complex scripting and other "power-uses", and everything else should have a GUI counterpart.

I think this is one of the biggest issues Linux has to overcome before being considered "mainstream"

[123456789A]

I've got nothing against open source if it's the better option. I look at a lot more than just price when it comes to software solutions.

The open source community, however, isn't without its own breed of trolls. I think that's what people are mocking when they make their "year of Linux" comments.

[ShMaunder]

As an average user, I should not have to use the terminal to configure my computer, install applications, etc. I should only have to use it for complex scripting and other "power-uses", and everything else should have a GUI counterpart.

Some things though are very complex to put into a GUI and is just easier to copy & paste a one line command instead of following a 20 step guide using the GUI. However, I know where you're coming from - all basic OS functions should have a GUI counterpart as well. Taking something like Ubuntu 11.10 vs 12.04 - they have added lots of new options to the system settings (most of these options are very basic like changing the size of the Unity launcher).

Personally, I think X needs to disappear before a linux distribution on the desktop is taken seriously (hello Wayland). I do believe that in 15 years time that the majority of us will be running a open source OS on our desktop (that could be a linux distribution). Anyway.......

If you stay inside the Linux forum on Neowin, they're generally few "trolls". There aren't that many users that contribute to the *nix forum but I prefer a low number then trolling everywhere.

[tiagosilva29]

If you want news around F(L)OSS/BSD/Linux in general don't expect anything good posted in the FPN. Check the BPN (that's now a spam hook for the FPN, lord have mercy) and the *nix section.

[redvamp128]

I personally run both-

All my systems are a dual boot. On my laptop that was designed for XP - But Vista capable, however, the video card won't let it install better than a basic video driver. (No Fancy Effects) Linux is more the viable option to keep it current.

I enjoy both worlds.... In fact when I want a media box for my desktop I boot to Ubuntu, because it runs the system cooler than Windows and uses less resources....

Great to have you in the Linux world on here..

[FMH]

However, there is a general trend that I have noticed here, and that is the susceptibility of any threads mentioning Linux to get ridiculed (with the possible exception of Android). I'd like to emphasize, again, that I really like different opinions; what I don't like is the general hostility toward open-source software, particularly with the heavy use of straw-man arguments. For example, someone will say some like "This is the year of the Linux desktop!", usually in a sarcastic or derogatory way, and aggravate the issue. Again.

This is said not to ridicule Linux OS per se, but this sentence has been said quite a few times by the opensource's "gurus and pundits". It is aimed at them, not at the operating system.